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Post by nick030567 on May 18, 2021 10:16:41 GMT -5
This kind of proves that showing up for voluntarily OTAs does not really correlate to a a better record. It does show maybe Judge isn't the that leader which inspires. If your theory is sound on Voluntary WOs . Why do the Chiefs' Have 90% attendance ( back to back SB appearances ) . Won 80% of their regular season games in that 2 year span . We have 44% attendance. We won 31% of our games in that same 2 year span. Perhaps their players are more committed to wining than ours are. If a coach like JJ cannot motivate this team . No one can. If this trend continues . Expect more of the same going forward. But how did that correlate with wins in 2019 when Pat had 88 show up? I mean, maybe it would've mattered if Pat remembered that you're allowed to run your RB to the outside every once in a while, or maybe if Bettcher would've recalled that it is common for a DC to actually call press/man to man coverage plays and that it's actually a bad thing to be in a soft zone for 85% of your play calls. Lol no amount of OTAs would've produced a good team with that duo. I really don't get all wrapped up in OTAs. They're voluntary for a reason. Otherwise they be wouldn't be. I'm more annoyed that the league/NFLPA castrated training camp and (recently) preseason. |
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Post by Sarcasman on May 18, 2021 10:32:58 GMT -5
While it would be nice if everyone participated, these are voluntary, and I try not to get too up in arms about players skipping them, especially the more seasoned vets. If they start skipping the mini-camps, etc, I'll be quite upset. While some of the players are merely taking advantage of the situation, there are some typically that have other commitments this time of year. I love the enthusiasm from all the guys that aren't playing, but honestly I don't give a crap about how many people showed up vs how many showed up with other teams. When someone can draw a line directly - without stopping off in ancedoteville for a quick fill up - from voluntary workouts to championships, I will care. Meantime, the league will look exactly as it always does. About 20% will suck, about 20% will be very good and everyone else will be in the middle. |
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Post by Sarcasman on May 18, 2021 10:38:00 GMT -5
Do winners sit at home during voluntary workouts? I doubt it but this is not a game won by who had the most people at OTAs. One could flip it around and ask, does every guy that shows up live to compete or are they just trying to check one of the boxes with the coaches? I have come around a bit on OTA. I still prefer it when players show up but if they don't it is not the end of the world. Super Bowls are not won during OTAs. Looks like we're gonna need to double the usual order of Pamprin for this season. |
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Post by JoeBigBlue on May 18, 2021 10:41:19 GMT -5
Somebody find out which players didn't show up so we can burn them at the stake.
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Post by Kruunch on May 18, 2021 10:45:03 GMT -5
I doubt it but this is not a game won by who had the most people at OTAs. One could flip it around and ask, does every guy that shows up live to compete or are they just trying to check one of the boxes with the coaches? I have come around a bit on OTA. I still prefer it when players show up but if they don't it is not the end of the world. Super Bowls are not won during OTAs. Looks like we're gonna need to double the usual order of Pamprin for this season. I was thinking more of tampons. We already have a few bleeders right now. |
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Post by jimmieray on May 18, 2021 11:11:13 GMT -5
Somebody find out which players didn't show up so we can burn them at the stake. You know Sandro certainly must be there:  |
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Post by imgrate on May 18, 2021 11:37:23 GMT -5
Bucs are. Bruce Arians quote couple days ago: “I’m sure we’ll have a bunch more of our guys show up in the next few weeks, not necessarily do I want the veterans here – the starters here – until minicamp (June 7 through 9,) but we need the bottom half of our roster here working.” I'm really trying to get your point but that's like comparing a Lamborghini to a Geo Metro. The Bucs are lead by one of the greatest QB's of all time and are coming off a Super Bowl victory in which they curb stomped the Chiefs and made them look like CFL team. The Giants are an embarrassing team that couldn't even win 7 games to make the playoffs. I didn't really have a point other than there's people that most everyone would consider a winner that is skipping these events too. My opinion is that having as many people at these practices can only help the team. |
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Post by Rangers13 on May 18, 2021 11:41:22 GMT -5
At least OTAs have been so watered down that almost nothing can be meaningfully accomplished. “Team building” (ie social interaction/relationship building) is really all they’re good for now. You’d like to see the team really coalescing but oh well. If I was a player I’d be a little concerned about working out on my own given the Juwan James situation. saw two OTA practices under the strict Coughlin era. Veterans yacking it up on the side and a few rookies running around. Pretty weak |
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Post by GameTime on May 18, 2021 12:06:26 GMT -5
The NYGs players were obviously more effected by what their Union told them to do.
Dont know why but they are. Maybe Joe Judge is ok with them sitting out due to Covid precautions. .
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 18, 2021 12:20:09 GMT -5
Out of these 40 players didn't the article say 17 were rookies. Plus Benjamin and Clement. Seems like a lot of the players are new to the team. For some reason many veterans don't seem to think it's that necessary to show up for they already are well versed in whats taken place. Perhaps some sort of basics and terminology being reviewed not actual practices of plays.
Also if hurt players might not get bonuses depending on discretion of the team. I believe bonuses kick in end of May or beginning of June. Once the bonuses become official and cannot be withheld it relieves some financial worries by the players.
Their might be a whole new group showing up. If I was a veteran and my job as a starter wasn't in jeopardy why would I risk injury and lose either hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars after watching other players being cut by teams after injury practicing on their own ?
Just sayin, if your a vet is this 72 hours going to effect you when pre season doesn't start for 70-75 days ? And the season for another 35-40 days after that ?
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Post by Nick6475 on May 18, 2021 12:23:58 GMT -5
This is ridiculous. Attendance at a voluntary camp may be one of the million reasons a team is good or not, but it certainly does not define a team. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. I would argue that the reason the Chiefs had a higher attendance is because they have been consistently good and let's be honest here, practicing for a team that wins consistently is way more fun. Also, they clearly have better talent on their team so the number of players trying to make the team and contribute is higher. Maybe the Giants have more players that are concerned with COVID and possibly bringing it back to their families. You could spin this in a variety of different ways to make the argument you want.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 18, 2021 12:30:14 GMT -5
Really like that DJ was there, and what Shepherd said about him today (how he is the first one in, last one out, etc.) We all root for the NY Giants QB, but it's also real easy to root for DJ the person ....
I'm guessing most of the key elements of the offense showed up.(at least Toney was there witb Jones and Shep) Was Jones and Shep there ? |
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Post by Martin on May 18, 2021 12:52:44 GMT -5
Out of these 40 players didn't the article say 17 were rookies. Plus Benjamin and Clement. Seems like a lot of the players are new to the team. For some reason many veterans don't seem to think it's that necessary to show up for they already are well versed in whats taken place. Perhaps some sort of basics and terminology being reviewed not actual practices of plays. Also if hurt players might not get bonuses depending on discretion of the team. I believe bonuses kick in end of May or beginning of June. Once the bonuses become official and cannot be withheld it relieves some financial worries by the players. Their might be a whole new group showing up. Just sayin, if your a vet is this 72 hours going to effect you when pre season doesn't start for 70-75 days ? And the season for another 35-40 days after that ? I posted pretty much what you said a few posts back. I agree it has to be on their minds (the risk factor if your a veteran) If your a player trying to make the team your gonna risk it for sure. |
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Post by giantlegacy on May 18, 2021 14:33:33 GMT -5
Here is someone who is there and obsessed with being really good
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Post by Jomo on May 18, 2021 15:43:20 GMT -5
Looks like we're gonna need to double the usual order of Pamprin for this season. I was thinking more of tampons. We already have a few bleeders right now. I think I just caught a left/right combo from two of my faves!  |
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Post by jb456 on May 18, 2021 16:10:00 GMT -5
This is ridiculous. Attendance at a voluntary camp may be one of the million reasons a team is good or not, but it certainly does not define a team. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. I would argue that the reason the Chiefs had a higher attendance is because they have been consistently good and let's be honest here, practicing for a team that wins consistently is way more fun. Also, they clearly have better talent on their team so the number of players trying to make the team and contribute is higher. Maybe the Giants have more players that are concerned with COVID and possibly bringing it back to their families. You could spin this in a variety of different ways to make the argument you want. True, this isn't going to make or break the team but we know it probably won't help it either. The majority of teams have more players attending than one of the worst teams in the league in 2020. It is what it is but some of these players are stupid because they are on bubble and they aren't even fighting for their own career. Also, the Chiefs aren't attending because they are having fun, they are attending because they were embarrassed in the super bowl and want to win another. In regards to Covid, that is a lame excuse if they are using it since the majority of the country has been vaccinated and I guarantee you that the protocols the teams have in place are 10X safer than these kids going out with their friends and partying. Maybe 1 / 5 players fall into your covid category but I bet it would be closer to 1 / 10. Everyone knows the vast majority of these players didn't show up because they didn't want to, not out of fear of covid. I'll finish by reiterating that it is what it is. This team isn't going to take the next step based on having full attendance.... |
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Post by jb456 on May 18, 2021 16:11:34 GMT -5
Here is someone who is there and obsessed with being really good That's good to hear, he needs a lot of work and hopefully his work translates into improvement. |
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Post by McCherry on May 18, 2021 17:24:38 GMT -5
While it would be nice if everyone participated, these are voluntary, and I try not to get too up in arms about players skipping them, especially the more seasoned vets. If they start skipping the mini-camps, etc, I'll be quite upset. While some of the players are merely taking advantage of the situation, there are some typically that have other commitments this time of year. I love the enthusiasm from all the guys that aren't playing, but honestly I don't give a crap about how many people showed up vs how many showed up with other teams. When someone can draw a line directly - without stopping off in ancedoteville for a quick fill up - from voluntary workouts to championships, I will care. Meantime, the league will look exactly as it always does. About 20% will suck, about 20% will be very good and everyone else will be in the middle. Whether 40 showed up, or 50 or 10. It will have no impact on how we play this season. The Chiefs will be good because they have talent, not because 80 players showed up to a meaningless social event. Winning teams aren't built in mid-May. |
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Post by TCHOF on May 18, 2021 17:27:26 GMT -5
I love the enthusiasm from all the guys that aren't playing, but honestly I don't give a crap about how many people showed up vs how many showed up with other teams. When someone can draw a line directly - without stopping off in ancedoteville for a quick fill up - from voluntary workouts to championships, I will care. Meantime, the league will look exactly as it always does. About 20% will suck, about 20% will be very good and everyone else will be in the middle. Whether 40 showed up, or 50 or 10. It will have no impact on how we play this season. The Chiefs will be good because they have talent, not because 80 players showed up to a meaningless social event. Winning teams aren't built in mid-May. Guess you’ve done a study on this |
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Post by IrishMike on May 18, 2021 17:54:42 GMT -5
This is ridiculous. Attendance at a voluntary camp may be one of the million reasons a team is good or not, but it certainly does not define a team. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. I would argue that the reason the Chiefs had a higher attendance is because they have been consistently good and let's be honest here, practicing for a team that wins consistently is way more fun. Also, they clearly have better talent on their team so the number of players trying to make the team and contribute is higher. Maybe the Giants have more players that are concerned with COVID and possibly bringing it back to their families. You could spin this in a variety of different ways to make the argument you want. I'm not sure if you are bitching out the guys saying we will stink because we didn't have enough players at OTA or if you are bitching out the guys saying they like the fact 40 players showed up. Please pick a side and defend that side until death, no room on this board for level headed middle ground fence sitters.
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Post by IrishMike on May 18, 2021 18:02:31 GMT -5
Whether 40 showed up, or 50 or 10. It will have no impact on how we play this season. The Chiefs will be good because they have talent, not because 80 players showed up to a meaningless social event. Winning teams aren't built in mid-May. I would think that for a team like the Chiefs that has an entire team that has found success in their system and a coach that's been there for 8 years and a QB that has played at the highest level doesn't need OTAs as much as say a coach in his second year, when he didn't get an off season his first year and a QB that is going into his 3rd year in the NFL that is his make or break year and a reliance on a TOP of young talent.
Just an opinion but I think OTAs mean more to some teams than others. Terrible teams could have OTAs all offseason and not be good, great teams could have zero OTAs and still be great. For middle tier teams, like the Giants, perhaps this can give them the edge to not start off 1-7 and lose the division by 1 win.
The funny thing is we will never have an answer because this is not Shrodenger's team and we can't both have OTAs and not have OTAs to compare the results.
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Post by McCherry on May 18, 2021 18:22:43 GMT -5
Whether 40 showed up, or 50 or 10. It will have no impact on how we play this season. The Chiefs will be good because they have talent, not because 80 players showed up to a meaningless social event. Winning teams aren't built in mid-May. Guess you’ve done a study on this The NFLPA has, and they've already decided OTA's are unnecessary based on last year’s record scoring, low number of penalties and missed tackles. |
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Post by McCherry on May 18, 2021 18:27:47 GMT -5
Whether 40 showed up, or 50 or 10. It will have no impact on how we play this season. The Chiefs will be good because they have talent, not because 80 players showed up to a meaningless social event. Winning teams aren't built in mid-May. I would think that for a team like the Chiefs that has an entire team that has found success in their system and a coach that's been there for 8 years and a QB that has played at the highest level doesn't need OTAs as much as say a coach in his second year, when he didn't get an off season his first year and a QB that is going into his 3rd year in the NFL that is his make or break year and a reliance on a TOP of young talent.
Just an opinion but I think OTAs mean more to some teams than others. Terrible teams could have OTAs all offseason and not be good, great teams could have zero OTAs and still be great. For middle tier teams, like the Giants, perhaps this can give them the edge to not start off 1-7 and lose the division by 1 win.
The funny thing is we will never have an answer because this is not Shrodenger's team and we can't both have OTAs and not have OTAs to compare the results.
This part of OTA's are more important for rookies and tryout players, as it's mostly about reiterating things like fundamentals and team rules etc. There's not a lot of real football practice happening here. Minicamps on the other hand are the first real off season activities that matter. You see actual offense vs. defense competition and the first depth charts start to form. |
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Post by TCHOF on May 18, 2021 20:29:22 GMT -5
Guess you’ve done a study on this The NFLPA has, and they've already decided OTA's are unnecessary based on last year’s record scoring, low number of penalties and missed tackles. lol ... yeah, that’s why the NFLPA is counseling its members to skip voluntary workouts .... |
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Post by GameTime on May 18, 2021 20:30:05 GMT -5
Doesn't mean much as far as who wants to win and who doesn't. If the Giants don't do well this season are we actually going to blame the OTAs from May?
You always want 100% attendance but that's not reality. The guys who are there will benefit in some form.
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Post by GameTime on May 18, 2021 20:33:31 GMT -5
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Post by TEM on May 19, 2021 6:31:06 GMT -5
If your theory is sound on Voluntary WOs . Why do the Chiefs' Have 90% attendance ( back to back SB appearances ) . Won 80% of their regular season games in that 2 year span . We have 44% attendance. We won 31% of our games in that same 2 year span. Perhaps their players are more committed to wining than ours are. If a coach like JJ cannot motivate this team . No one can. If this trend continues . Expect more of the same going forward. But how did that correlate with wins in 2019 when Pat had 88 show up? I mean, maybe it would've mattered if Pat remembered that you're allowed to run your RB to the outside every once in a while, or maybe if Bettcher would've recalled that it is common for a DC to actually call press/man to man coverage plays and that it's actually a bad thing to be in a soft zone for 85% of your play calls. Lol no amount of OTAs would've produced a good team with that duo. I really don't get all wrapped up in OTAs. They're voluntary for a reason. Otherwise they be wouldn't be. I'm more annoyed that the league/NFLPA castrated training camp and (recently) preseason. I Don't care if the OTA consists of 90 players walking around with a clip board and taking notes as the coaches speak. Because they are doing it as a team. "team" This the way I see it. "I can workout on my own" Or lets workout as a group ( DBs in Florida) Neither of those build team continuity . Great the DB are getting to know each other. How does any of that interact with the LBs , DL...... WRs, QB........The rest of the team. No team has ever built chemistry training individually. It is inconsequential that OTA are "watered down" , "Voluntary for a reason" "No pads on" Deemed unnecessary. They are the foundation of building team chemistry, commitment, and giving that extra effort to want to win. Teams that win understand this. They know from the moment the draft ends to week one is a finite amount of time to be ready. I can't remember the last time this team was prepared to play on the first week of the season. That has been our biggest issue for the last 3 or 4 seasons in 2017 we went 0-5 to start the season in 2018 we went 1-4 to start the season in 2019 we went 2-3 to start the season last year we went 0-5 to start the season You would think what I am conveying in this thread would be an easy concept to grasp. There are reasons this team starts slow . If I were a HC from one of the other teams . I would be happy to play the Giants in the first quarter of the season. Even a team in rebuild mode should not have this kind of predictability in the early part of the season. "We played better after week 8" is a line that is growing taxing to read. |
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Post by piddy283 on May 19, 2021 6:32:48 GMT -5
lol....Some of y'all's ability to get worked up over nothing, and to turn a seemingly positive situation into a negative, is impressive.....or sad. Can't figure out which one. I just read we're working to finalize a joint practice with the Patriots. More good news in my opinion, but I'll wait for the usual negative Nancy's to whine and tell me how I'm wrong about that.  www.bigblueview.com/2021/5/18/22441985/report-giants-to-hold-joint-practices-with-patriots |
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Post by TEM on May 19, 2021 6:37:54 GMT -5
lol....Some of y'all's ability to get worked up over nothing, and to turn a seemingly positive situation into a negative, is impressive.....or sad. Can't figure out which one. I just read we're working to finalize a joint practice with the Patriots. More good news in my opinion, but I'll wait for the usual negative Nancy's to whine and tell me how I'm wrong about that. www.bigblueview.com/2021/5/18/22441985/report-giants-to-hold-joint-practices-with-patriotsin 2017 we went 0-5 to start the season in 2018 we went 1-4 to start the season in 2019 we went 2-3 to start the season last year we went 0-5 to start the season That is all that needs to be said. And then it is a wonderment on why we start in a hole every season? " I can't figure why we can't win" |
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Post by TEM on May 19, 2021 7:03:56 GMT -5
While it would be nice if everyone participated, these are voluntary, and I try not to get too up in arms about players skipping them, especially the more seasoned vets. If they start skipping the mini-camps, etc, I'll be quite upset. While some of the players are merely taking advantage of the situation, there are some typically that have other commitments this time of year. I love the enthusiasm from all the guys that aren't playing, but honestly I don't give a crap about how many people showed up vs how many showed up with other teams. When someone can draw a line directly - without stopping off in ancedoteville for a quick fill up - from voluntary workouts to championships, I will care. Meantime, the league will look exactly as it always does. About 20% will suck, about 20% will be very good and everyone else will be in the middle. Are you saying that and this? About 20% will suck, about 20% will be very good and everyone else will be in the middle. Statistically inaccurate. And and an anecdote unto its self. Statistically in the cap era 44% winning record 44% losing record 12% Tie record very good teams are jus under 14.5% (12 Wins +) Suck teams 16% (12+ losses) Those so call middle teams ( a majority of the playoff teams) are in that (69.5%) So 70% of the league is positioning for 10 playoff spots. ( 23 teams). That is a lot of individuals in a small boat. So when you sit here with you own anecdoteville philosophy and present it as "it does not matter who shows up and who does not" with 70% of the league ( parody) all trying to find that little something something to place them at the top of the heap . What they do in May does matter. |
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