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Post by idkaname on May 24, 2021 16:09:51 GMT -5
Honestly to me, Jones is literally a Eli duplicate - in the sense that we’ll see brilliance and WTF his whole career.
With that said, franchise QB all the way...many of his best plays have come in the clutch and that TB game his rookie year is truly an incredible achievement that gets overlooked...
He’ll never be MVP but he will see the pro bowl quite a few times.
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Post by GameTime on May 24, 2021 16:21:02 GMT -5
I voted yes because that is the whole idea of drafting a QB #6. I feel he has all the tools to do the job at a high level.
With that said the glaring issue of being oblivious in the pocket has to change significantly. I mean all QB get blindsided and crushed here and there but it happens to him way too often and it not all the oline's fault. If he can clean that up he will be a very succeful NFL QB for a long time.
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Post by jb456 on May 24, 2021 16:21:48 GMT -5
He has a lot of work to do. He needs to significantly improve his pocket presence and learn how to hold on to the damn ball when he eats a sack. To many of Jones sacks looks like he has no idea he is going to be hit and gets crushed and fumbles. To Jones's credit, he improved his fumbling in 2020 but he still needs additional improvement.
I'm looking for what Jones does this year since his progression will make or break the season but I'm a little uneasy since the Giants are rolling with a very similar Oline that got Jones Sacked 50x in the last 2 years (Or what would have been 50X if you account for the games he missed due to injury).
This is Jones last chance to prove he can be a franchise QB. I'm hoping he either takes a massive step forward (Much better scenario) or regresses that way the Team will have a clear path forward. If Jones only slightly improves, that kind of leaves the team at a crossroad.
I think he can be a franchise QB partly because of his skills and partly because the alternative is dog crap....
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Post by Kase1 on May 24, 2021 16:25:48 GMT -5
This is the season that we will have a better idea weather he's a franchise QB, or its his last season in NY
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Post by TEM on May 24, 2021 16:26:33 GMT -5
I voted yes . He has the tools and the head to be a good QB.
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Post by lexington11 on May 24, 2021 16:38:30 GMT -5
He has a lot of work to do. He needs to significantly improve his pocket presence and learn how to hold on to the damn ball when he eats a sack. To many of Jones sacks looks like he has no idea he is going to be hit and gets crushed and fumbles. To Jones's credit, he improved his fumbling in 2020 but he still needs additional improvement. I'm looking for what Jones does this year since his progression will make or break the season but I'm a little uneasy since the Giants are rolling with a very similar Oline that got Jones Sacked 50x in the last 2 years (Or what would have been 50X if you account for the games he missed due to injury). This is Jones last chance to prove he can be a franchise QB. I'm hoping he either takes a massive step forward (Much better scenario) or regresses that way the Team will have a clear path forward. If Jones only slightly improves, that kind of leaves the team at a crossroad. I think he can be a franchise QB partly because of his skills and partly because the alternative is dog crap.... his pocket presence and awareness aren't the issue, trying to make plays when nothing is there is the issue. awful oline play, no running game, and receivers who cant get open. I mean I can hardly blame the kid totally, somebody has to make things happen. I applaud hid toughness and competitive nature though. |
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Post by SemperFi on May 24, 2021 16:44:38 GMT -5
We're really scratching for filler at this point. I get it, but c'mon man. Ask this question about halfway thru 2021 season and I'll have an opinion. It's just wild guessing and fantasy at this point.  |
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Post by GameTime on May 24, 2021 16:46:37 GMT -5
We're really scratching for filler at this point. I get it, but c'mon man. Ask this question about halfway thru 2021 season and I'll have an opinion. It's just wild guessing and fantasy at this point. after two seasons you have no opinion? |
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Post by jb456 on May 24, 2021 16:52:04 GMT -5
He has a lot of work to do. He needs to significantly improve his pocket presence and learn how to hold on to the damn ball when he eats a sack. To many of Jones sacks looks like he has no idea he is going to be hit and gets crushed and fumbles. To Jones's credit, he improved his fumbling in 2020 but he still needs additional improvement. I'm looking for what Jones does this year since his progression will make or break the season but I'm a little uneasy since the Giants are rolling with a very similar Oline that got Jones Sacked 50x in the last 2 years (Or what would have been 50X if you account for the games he missed due to injury). This is Jones last chance to prove he can be a franchise QB. I'm hoping he either takes a massive step forward (Much better scenario) or regresses that way the Team will have a clear path forward. If Jones only slightly improves, that kind of leaves the team at a crossroad. I think he can be a franchise QB partly because of his skills and partly because the alternative is dog crap.... trying to make plays when nothing is there is the issue. awful oline play, no running game, and receivers who cant get open. I mean I can hardly blame the kid totally, somebody has to make things happen. I applaud hid toughness and competitive nature though. I disagree with this bud. I believe Jones has the tools to succeed but he takes stupid hits from his non blind side and doesn't do anything to protect the ball when it happens. That's not a case of trying to make something happen, that's a case of not knowing what's happening. Sure, there are the fumbles that happen when he is throwing, that can happen. There is also the awful Oline which I will not defend and I think its crazy that the Giants did nothing to improve after it's awful 2020 performance. Hopefully having TE that can actually block and some weapons will help him BUT he has worts in his game that he needs to correct... |
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Post by SemperFi on May 24, 2021 16:57:00 GMT -5
We're really scratching for filler at this point. I get it, but c'mon man. Ask this question about halfway thru 2021 season and I'll have an opinion. It's just wild guessing and fantasy at this point. after two seasons you have no opinion? He hasn't payed yet with a full deck. There are reasons...not excuses, why it is foolish to judge him. So yeah...I have no opinion.
...But it is on record here that I predict we are 11 - 6 and in the playoffs. Maybe its all defense, maybe not.
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Post by jb456 on May 24, 2021 16:59:03 GMT -5
We're really scratching for filler at this point. I get it, but c'mon man. Ask this question about halfway thru 2021 season and I'll have an opinion. It's just wild guessing and fantasy at this point. No scratching at all. This is it for Jones and the Giants hope to be a contender within the next few years. Jones will not get another shot after this year. He will either succeed and the Giants will continue to ascend or he flops and the Giants have to start over and the clock restarts at 3-5 Years. Jones's progression is the biggest key to the NY Giants immediate future success. If the Giants do well this year but Jones doesn't significantly improve, the Giants will probably capped at 9 wins and possible a first round exit before they need to rebuild again.... |
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Post by idkaname on May 24, 2021 17:00:40 GMT -5
after two seasons you have no opinion? He hasn't payed yet with a full deck. There are reasons...not excuses, why it is foolish to judge him. So yeah...I have no opinion. I mean if we’ve seen his worst...he’s going to be good. Mainly because of the factors you just mentioned, they SHOULD be fixed and we’ll get a true look. Anyways that’s the point nobody knows anything...if he puts up josh Allen numbers this year then we already know the answer, hence the thread before we know 😉 |
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Post by SemperFi on May 24, 2021 17:03:58 GMT -5
We're really scratching for filler at this point. I get it, but c'mon man. Ask this question about halfway thru 2021 season and I'll have an opinion. It's just wild guessing and fantasy at this point. No scratching at all. This is it for Jones and the Giants hope to be a contender within the next few years. Jones will not get another shot after this year. He will either succeed and the Giants will continue to ascend or he flops and the Giants have to start over and the clock restarts at 3-5 Years. Jones's progression is the biggest key to the NY Giants immediate future success. If the Giants do well this year but Jones doesn't significantly improve, the Giants will probably capped at 9 wins and possible a first round exit before they need to rebuild again.... OK Mr. Obvious, you make a case that has been over analyzed to death. There is nothing new here. |
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Post by GameTime on May 24, 2021 17:13:38 GMT -5
after two seasons you have no opinion? He hasn't payed yet with a full deck. There are reasons...not excuses, why it is foolish to judge him. So yeah...I have no opinion.
...But it is on record here that I predict we are 11 - 6 and in the playoffs. Maybe its all defense, maybe not.
for me I can see the flaw in his game regardless of the OL or other weapons. pocket awareness or lack there of. Since you have the going 11-6 Jones ( and company) will have o do well because they are not winning 11 games with an offense that cant put up +20 points on average. |
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Post by SemperFi on May 24, 2021 17:18:16 GMT -5
He hasn't payed yet with a full deck. There are reasons...not excuses, why it is foolish to judge him. So yeah...I have no opinion.
...But it is on record here that I predict we are 11 - 6 and in the playoffs. Maybe its all defense, maybe not.
for me I can see the flaw in his game regardless of the OL or other weapons. pocket awareness or lack there of. Since you have the going 11-6 Jones ( and company) will have o do well because they are not winning 11 games with an offense that cant put up +20 points on average. Yep. In Judge, I trust. If he is solid on the Oline as is, so am I. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 24, 2021 17:37:22 GMT -5
Franchise QB ? Whatever that means. I think Jones will be a good QB not a great QB. I would make a comparison like Kirk Cousins. Is that good enough to carry us if the rest of the team is strong ?
It's probably good enough to be a playoff team even consistently. A championship ? Lets hope so.
Mediocre QB's have won SB's. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Nick Foles, etc. A bunch of others you can name.
I really do think Jones steps up this year.
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Post by idkaname on May 24, 2021 17:56:01 GMT -5
Franchise QB ? Whatever that means. I think Jones will be a good QB not a great QB. I would make a comparison like Kirk Cousins. Is that good enough to carry us if the rest of the team is strong ? It's probably good enough to be a playoff team even consistently. A championship ? Lets hope so. Mediocre QB's have won SB's. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Nick Foles, etc. A bunch of others you can name. I really do think Jones steps up this year. although this is from bleacherreport... I like this definition “Really, a franchise quarterback can be anyone who has the support of the organization and who the team is not actively trying to replace” A guy you’re not trying to replace works for me. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 24, 2021 18:01:13 GMT -5
Franchise QB ? Whatever that means. I think Jones will be a good QB not a great QB. I would make a comparison like Kirk Cousins. Is that good enough to carry us if the rest of the team is strong ? It's probably good enough to be a playoff team even consistently. A championship ? Lets hope so. Mediocre QB's have won SB's. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Nick Foles, etc. A bunch of others you can name. I really do think Jones steps up this year. although this is from bleacherreport... I like this definition “Really, a franchise quarterback can be anyone who has the support of the organization and who the team is not actively trying to replace” A guy you’re not trying to replace works for me. HaHa, Perfect ! |
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Post by wahl35 on May 24, 2021 18:05:53 GMT -5
Small sample size but ....
Next Gen Stats' top 10 deep passers of 2020: Aaron Rodgers lands at No. 4
Rank 1
Daniel Jones
New York Giants · QB
Deep attempts: 19-of-39, 636 yards, 5:0 TD-to-INT ratio, 134.3 passer rating
Comp: 48.7%
xComp: 33.9%
CPOE: +14.8%
Giants fans looking for proof that Jones can become the franchise QB he was drafted to be are getting a generous helping with this choice. Sure, it's a surprise to everyone to see him No. 1, but the numbers don't lie. Jones went deep just 39 times but was very effective when doing so, and his year-to-year improvement is incredibly encouraging. After posting a CPOE of -4.9 percent in 2019, Jones took a massive leap in 2020 to +14.8 percent, an improvement of +19.7 percentage points, the largest in the entire league from 2019 to 2020. It seems head coach Joe Judge's arrival did more than just turn the Giants into a scrappy bunch -- it also elevated Jones' effectiveness downfield. His passer rating on deep throws was the highest in the league at 134.3, and his completion percentage on such attempts (48.7) was the fourth-highest mark. Jones still has to prove he has what it takes to help the team be a consistent winner, but if he remains on this trajectory, we might not be spending much more of our future days debating his viability.
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Post by idkaname on May 24, 2021 18:09:55 GMT -5
Small sample size but ....
Next Gen Stats' top 10 deep passers of 2020: Aaron Rodgers lands at No. 4
Rank 1
Daniel Jones
New York Giants · QB
Deep attempts: 19-of-39, 636 yards, 5:0 TD-to-INT ratio, 134.3 passer rating
Comp: 48.7%
xComp: 33.9%
CPOE: +14.8%
Giants fans looking for proof that Jones can become the franchise QB he was drafted to be are getting a generous helping with this choice. Sure, it's a surprise to everyone to see him No. 1, but the numbers don't lie. Jones went deep just 39 times but was very effective when doing so, and his year-to-year improvement is incredibly encouraging. After posting a CPOE of -4.9 percent in 2019, Jones took a massive leap in 2020 to +14.8 percent, an improvement of +19.7 percentage points, the largest in the entire league from 2019 to 2020. It seems head coach Joe Judge's arrival did more than just turn the Giants into a scrappy bunch -- it also elevated Jones' effectiveness downfield. His passer rating on deep throws was the highest in the league at 134.3, and his completion percentage on such attempts (48.7) was the fourth-highest mark. Jones still has to prove he has what it takes to help the team be a consistent winner, but if he remains on this trajectory, we might not be spending much more of our future days debating his viability.
music to my ears but let’s keep that improving and we’re talking a very good qb 😃 |
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Post by Fletch842 on May 24, 2021 18:29:38 GMT -5
I think he has all the tools to develop into a top end QB, but isn't there yet. I can't say for sure that he'll get there either, but it won't be due to a lack of physical ability, that's for sure.
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ocgiant
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Post by ocgiant on May 24, 2021 19:14:27 GMT -5
I voted Yes and hopefully so; then "other" positions of need can be filled to really make this team competitive going forward especially with getting two first rounders next season.
Daniel has got enough Pro experience now going into his third season and you know the coaches are working with him to improve pocket awareness, minimizing turnovers and creating a playbook with all the new Offensive capabilities. DJ should net more productive results than in the past two years. The OL, I believe the Giants will add another lineman or two so that he has that time to take advantage of his receivers down field.
It should be an exciting season for us fans for a change winning more games which is all we have patiently waited for to see happen.
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Post by IrishMike on May 24, 2021 19:52:26 GMT -5
Small sample size but ....Next Gen Stats' top 10 deep passers of 2020: Aaron Rodgers lands at No. 4
Rank 1
Daniel Jones
New York Giants · QB
Here is the thing. It's not really a small sample size. I said this leading up to his draft. He was the #1 deep passer in college football, when adjusted for the drops by WRs. That is his best skill and we didn't have a single person that could exploit it last year on a weekly basis. We do now. With Shep being able to play to his strengths, Rudolph being able to be a normal TE, Galloday being able to go deep and Toney keeping the D off balance; plus Barkley; Jones will be able to really show his skills this year.
I said it in the Rodgers to NY thread and will said it here. Jones is going to be in MVP talks this year much to the chagrin of the talking heads.
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Post by IrishMike on May 24, 2021 19:56:39 GMT -5
I voted Yes and hopefully so; then "other" positions of need can be filled to really make this team competitive going forward especially with getting two first rounders next season. Daniel has got enough Pro experience now going into his third season and you know the coaches are working with him to improve pocket awareness, minimizing turnovers and creating a playbook with all the new Offensive capabilities. DJ should net more productive results than in the past two years. The OL, I believe the Giants will add another lineman or two so that he has that time to take advantage of his receivers down field. It should be an exciting season for us fans for a change winning more games which is all we have patiently waited for to see happen. It's a perfect example of why getting the QB draft pick right is so important. If we get it right then we have our QB, he has a solid OL around him, RB and all the WRs we could want. Plus the foundation of a really good defense. So now we can add TWO more first round picks to that and we are suddenly in the top tier of the league.
If we got it wrong then we will be looking to replace half the OL (at least), possibly moving on from Barkley, needing a TE and we will then have to spend our two first round picks, plus more possibly trying to secure the QB we like the best in the draft.
Scary thought how much this season means for the Giants franchise. It's really the difference from the Chiefs/Packers of the world to the Jets/Jags of the world. The Browns are in a very similar boat. Super talented team, if Baker isn't the guy they will be starting over.
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Post by McCherry on May 24, 2021 20:07:30 GMT -5
He has a lot of work to do. He needs to significantly improve his pocket presence and learn how to hold on to the damn ball when he eats a sack. To many of Jones sacks looks like he has no idea he is going to be hit and gets crushed and fumbles. To Jones's credit, he improved his fumbling in 2020 but he still needs additional improvement. I'm looking for what Jones does this year since his progression will make or break the season but I'm a little uneasy since the Giants are rolling with a very similar Oline that got Jones Sacked 50x in the last 2 years (Or what would have been 50X if you account for the games he missed due to injury). This is Jones last chance to prove he can be a franchise QB. I'm hoping he either takes a massive step forward (Much better scenario) or regresses that way the Team will have a clear path forward. If Jones only slightly improves, that kind of leaves the team at a crossroad. I think he can be a franchise QB partly because of his skills and partly because the alternative is dog crap.... his pocket presence and awareness aren't the issue, trying to make plays when nothing is there is the issue. awful oline play, no running game, and receivers who cant get open. I mean I can hardly blame the kid totally, somebody has to make things happen. I applaud hid toughness and competitive nature though. Agreed. He’s not the only QB who locks onto his receivers. People think he has a pocket awareness issue because he’s been getting killed on the blindside for 2 years because of bad LT play. 83 sacks will do that. |
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Post by GameTime on May 24, 2021 20:11:09 GMT -5
his pocket presence and awareness aren't the issue, trying to make plays when nothing is there is the issue. awful oline play, no running game, and receivers who cant get open. I mean I can hardly blame the kid totally, somebody has to make things happen. I applaud hid toughness and competitive nature though. Agreed. He’s not the only QB who locks onto his receivers. People think he has a pocket awareness issue because he’s been getting killed on the blindside for 2 years because of bad LT play. 83 sacks will do that. he absolutely does.... He has pocket awareness issues above and beyond the oline issues. Its evident every game he has played just about. I like Jones a lot and think he gets passed his flaws and becomes a very good NFL QB |
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Post by jb456 on May 24, 2021 20:15:30 GMT -5
No scratching at all. This is it for Jones and the Giants hope to be a contender within the next few years. Jones will not get another shot after this year. He will either succeed and the Giants will continue to ascend or he flops and the Giants have to start over and the clock restarts at 3-5 Years. Jones's progression is the biggest key to the NY Giants immediate future success. If the Giants do well this year but Jones doesn't significantly improve, the Giants will probably capped at 9 wins and possible a first round exit before they need to rebuild again.... OK Mr. Obvious, you make a case that has been over analyzed to death. There is nothing new here. This topic hasn't been covered as much as the draft and Jones's progression is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then the entire 2021 draft class for importance to the 2021 season... |
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Post by Kruunch on May 24, 2021 20:18:18 GMT -5
Small sample size but ....Next Gen Stats' top 10 deep passers of 2020: Aaron Rodgers lands at No. 4
Rank 1
Daniel Jones
New York Giants · QB
Here is the thing. It's not really a small sample size. I said this leading up to his draft. He was the #1 deep passer in college football, when adjusted for the drops by WRs. That is his best skill and we didn't have a single person that could exploit it last year on a weekly basis. We do now. With Shep being able to play to his strengths, Rudolph being able to be a normal TE, Galloday being able to go deep and Toney keeping the D off balance; plus Barkley; Jones will be able to really show his skills this year.
I said it in the Rodgers to NY thread and will said it here. Jones is going to be in MVP talks this year much to the chagrin of the talking heads.
Did I read this right? Daniel Jones, the same Jones who tripped over a sprinkler head on his 80 yard run, and would lose his hand if it wasn’t attached to his wrist. Is going to be in the talks of MVP? The only way Jones would be in the discussion of MVP of the league. Is by asking Aaron Rodgers how it feels to win it. No way, no how will he be amongst the best in the league. He would have to put up off the chart numbers to get even a thought of MVP. To go from shit, to great in a year is extremely hard. This isn’t optimism, this is insanity. |
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Post by Nite on May 24, 2021 21:07:05 GMT -5
I like to take a look at that cart please..
Franchise? Lets see him get the 2nd contract and lead his team to a playoff victory before I consider that..
SAoooo some would say
Ima a
hater
hater
hater
alligator..
but couldn't date her..
but then again, reality? It doesn't bite (at times) and it could be your friend ..Iike some of mine and some of them...
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ocgiant
Starter
Posts: 3,388
Member is Online
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Post by ocgiant on May 24, 2021 21:25:30 GMT -5
I voted Yes and hopefully so; then "other" positions of need can be filled to really make this team competitive going forward especially with getting two first rounders next season. Daniel has got enough Pro experience now going into his third season and you know the coaches are working with him to improve pocket awareness, minimizing turnovers and creating a playbook with all the new Offensive capabilities. DJ should net more productive results than in the past two years. The OL, I believe the Giants will add another lineman or two so that he has that time to take advantage of his receivers down field. It should be an exciting season for us fans for a change winning more games which is all we have patiently waited for to see happen. It's a perfect example of why getting the QB draft pick right is so important. If we get it right then we have our QB, he has a solid OL around him, RB and all the WRs we could want. Plus the foundation of a really good defense. So now we can add TWO more first round picks to that and we are suddenly in the top tier of the league.
If we got it wrong then we will be looking to replace half the OL (at least), possibly moving on from Barkley, needing a TE and we will then have to spend our two first round picks, plus more possibly trying to secure the QB we like the best in the draft.
Scary thought how much this season means for the Giants franchise. It's really the difference from the Chiefs/Packers of the world to the Jets/Jags of the world. The Browns are in a very similar boat. Super talented team, if Baker isn't the guy they will be starting over.
That's why I always said rebuilding a franchise is complicated, takes time, picking right in FA and the Draft. Now this is given if you have a solid FO and Coaching staff. Giants are a perfect example of how long it has taken to get back into a position (to your point) to have a winning season minimizing the "ifs" you mentioned along the way this season. I am trusting the new culture, coaching and players to make this a growth season taking some solid strides it would be nice to see the post season again, man do I miss it come the end of the regular season. |
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