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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 16:13:13 GMT -5
Yes, of course he is. This year, you will all see what I saw. No excuses.
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Post by Kruunch on May 25, 2021 16:53:26 GMT -5
7 games he didn’t throw a single touchdown. His rookie season, he was converting those drives to touchdowns. He still averaged a turnover a game, and he got hurt again. Other than that, he’s improving. I would never look at TD totals as any measure of a QB’s skill. Otherwise plenty of backups would still be starters. Outside of 2 games, Jones was awful in 2019. The team was literally non-competitive with him starting.. In the second half of 2020 Jones had some of the best overall games of his career. Yet for some reason fans have this unrealistic opinion of Jones based solely on touchdowns. Now I’ve heard of everything. When did throwing touchdowns become insignificant? I know when, when our quarterback threw for 11 in 15 games. Look, the quarterbacks job is to put points on the board. Be it through the air, or on the ground. They get paid for their arm, and the more touchdowns they throw. The more likelihood of the teams success. If his best games as a pro are competitive losses, then get him the **** out of here..
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Post by McCherry on May 25, 2021 17:19:28 GMT -5
I would never look at TD totals as any measure of a QB’s skill. Otherwise plenty of backups would still be starters. Outside of 2 games, Jones was awful in 2019. The team was literally non-competitive with him starting.. In the second half of 2020 Jones had some of the best overall games of his career. Yet for some reason fans have this unrealistic opinion of Jones based solely on touchdowns. Now I’ve heard of everything. When did throwing touchdowns become insignificant? I know when, when our quarterback threw for 11 in 15 games. Look, the quarterbacks job is to put points on the board. Be it through the air, or on the ground. They get paid for their arm, and the more touchdowns they throw. The more likelihood of the teams success. If his best games as a pro are competitive losses, then get him the **** out of here.. I'm not saying TD's aren't important. You're judging him completely on TD passes alone without taking in all the other factors. Let's not act like they weren't a list of other reasons why this offense didn't produce last season that have been substantially addressed.
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Post by IrishMike on May 25, 2021 17:36:01 GMT -5
Of course it is hard, otherwise no QB would ever get cut and they would all be amazing. That is how good I think Jones can be and with the weapons around him that's how good I think he will be this year. People talked about Josh Allen as the MVP last year. I think Jones can do at least that good this year. Josh Allen got better each year since he’s been in the league. It’s the opposite for Jones, he actually got worse. If you said he would bounce back and have a productive season. I would agree, to say he will be in talks for league MVP. It’s fan talk.. Josh Allen also got more weapons each year and stayed in the same system. Only time will tell but I don't think there is a single thing that Josh Allen does that Jones can't.
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Post by IrishMike on May 25, 2021 17:37:28 GMT -5
Yes, of course he is. This year, you will all see what I saw. No excuses. Time is coming. They will be believers soon enough.
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Post by Nick6475 on May 25, 2021 18:01:43 GMT -5
Now I’ve heard of everything. When did throwing touchdowns become insignificant? I know when, when our quarterback threw for 11 in 15 games. Look, the quarterbacks job is to put points on the board. Be it through the air, or on the ground. They get paid for their arm, and the more touchdowns they throw. The more likelihood of the teams success. If his best games as a pro are competitive losses, then get him the **** out of here.. I'm not saying TD's aren't important. You're judging him completely on TD passes alone without taking in all the other factors. Let's not act like they weren't a list of other reasons why this offense didn't produce last season that have been substantially addressed. I get it now...the "areas" he improved on were despite the list of reasons the offense sucked, but the one area he definitely regressed was because of those reasons. That's a cool way to construct an argument, you always win!
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Post by Kruunch on May 25, 2021 18:22:25 GMT -5
Now I’ve heard of everything. When did throwing touchdowns become insignificant? I know when, when our quarterback threw for 11 in 15 games. Look, the quarterbacks job is to put points on the board. Be it through the air, or on the ground. They get paid for their arm, and the more touchdowns they throw. The more likelihood of the teams success. If his best games as a pro are competitive losses, then get him the **** out of here.. I'm not saying TD's aren't important. You're judging him completely on TD passes alone without taking in all the other factors. Let's not act like they weren't a list of other reasons why this offense didn't produce last season that have been substantially addressed. I’m judging him on his whole body of work. The touchdown stat sticks out like a sore thumb. There is many reasons why the offense was awful, Jones is right up there with the other knuckleheads. It can all be forgotten with a great season and wins to match.
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Post by IrishMike on May 25, 2021 19:53:38 GMT -5
I'm not saying TD's aren't important. You're judging him completely on TD passes alone without taking in all the other factors. Let's not act like they weren't a list of other reasons why this offense didn't produce last season that have been substantially addressed. I’m judging him on his whole body of work. The touchdown stat sticks out like a sore thumb. There is many reasons why the offense was awful, Jones is right up there with the other knuckleheads. It can all be forgotten with a great season and wins to match. Considering how many TDs he had his rookie year his low number of them last year is pretty crazy. Was last year our worst offense in the last decade? They simply could not score for long stretches, mostly in he second half of the year when the team actually did better.
We will find out this year who the real Daniel Jones is. Is he a Peyton/Eli or is he an Erik Ainge/Thad Lewis?
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Post by McCherry on May 25, 2021 20:55:20 GMT -5
I’m judging him on his whole body of work. The touchdown stat sticks out like a sore thumb. There is many reasons why the offense was awful, Jones is right up there with the other knuckleheads. It can all be forgotten with a great season and wins to match. Considering how many TDs he had his rookie year his low number of them last year is pretty crazy. Was last year our worst offense in the last decade? They simply could not score for long stretches, mostly in he second half of the year when the team actually did better.
We will find out this year who the real Daniel Jones is. Is he a Peyton/Eli or is he an Erik Ainge/Thad Lewis?
It's no accident that after producing an offense only second worse to Todd Gase, Garrett is going to be overseen by two very much younger offensive assistants. It's a pretty big statement by the Giants that a 10-year head coaching veteran is going to have his hand held.
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Post by McCherry on May 25, 2021 21:27:20 GMT -5
Agreed. He’s not the only QB who locks onto his receivers. People think he has a pocket awareness issue because he’s been getting killed on the blindside for 2 years because of bad LT play. 83 sacks will do that. he absolutely does.... He has pocket awareness issues above and beyond the oline issues. Its evident every game he has played just about. I like Jones a lot and think he gets passed his flaws and becomes a very good NFL QB That's because he's being sacked over 3 times per game. The problem is the sacks, not how Jones is handing blindside pressure. He's a pocket passer, not DeShaun Watson. I like that he’s standing in there and focusing downfield, not on the pressure. That's exactly what you want. When he starts getting happy feet it’s over for him. Until they get better LT play he's going to continue to get hit.
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Post by GameTime on May 26, 2021 4:33:42 GMT -5
he absolutely does.... He has pocket awareness issues above and beyond the oline issues. Its evident every game he has played just about. I like Jones a lot and think he gets passed his flaws and becomes a very good NFL QB That's because he's being sacked over 3 times per game. The problem is the sacks, not how Jones is handing blindside pressure. He's a pocket passer, not DeShaun Watson. I like that he’s standing in there and focusing downfield, not on the pressure. That's exactly what you want. When he starts getting happy feet it’s over for him. Until they get better LT play he's going to continue to get hit. I never said the OL isnt a problem and is definitely responsible for the some of the sacks etc. You make it seem like Jones is all good to go all he needs is weapons and a good OL. Well all QBs need that to succeed. Jones has, all on his very own, problems in the pocket above and beyond the OL's level of play. You can choose to be blind to that but thats just not the reality.
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Post by McCherry on May 26, 2021 11:44:09 GMT -5
That's because he's being sacked over 3 times per game. The problem is the sacks, not how Jones is handing blindside pressure. He's a pocket passer, not DeShaun Watson. I like that he’s standing in there and focusing downfield, not on the pressure. That's exactly what you want. When he starts getting happy feet it’s over for him. Until they get better LT play he's going to continue to get hit. I never said the OL isnt a problem and is definitely responsible for the some of the sacks etc. You make it seem like Jones is all good to go all he needs is weapons and a good OL. Well all QBs need that to succeed. Jones has, all on his very own, problems in the pocket above and beyond the OL's level of play. You can choose to be blind to that but thats just not the reality. I'm not saying Jones doesn't have issues in the pocket, but I think they're more related to slow processing times. He makes most of his INT's when he’s late with throws. In terms of the pressure, he’s being coached to make his reads and deliver the ball within 3 seconds. I don't think he's being told to listen for footsteps. They are trying to get the OL's blocking to where he can do his job. Sensing pressure will come in time and with better protection. I think his biggest issue overall is making his reads. He misses way too many open receivers and locks into one area of the field too much. He left about 5 TD's on the field by not spotting the open receiver.
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Post by IrishMike on May 26, 2021 11:46:32 GMT -5
Considering how many TDs he had his rookie year his low number of them last year is pretty crazy. Was last year our worst offense in the last decade? They simply could not score for long stretches, mostly in he second half of the year when the team actually did better.
We will find out this year who the real Daniel Jones is. Is he a Peyton/Eli or is he an Erik Ainge/Thad Lewis?
It's no accident that after producing an offense only second worse to Todd Gase, Garrett is going to be overseen by two very much younger offensive assistants. It's a pretty big statement by the Giants that a 10-year head coaching veteran is going to have his hand held. The one thing that stood out last year was that Judge said over and over that the game plan process involves all the coaches. So I think having Kitchens and Russ Callaway not coaching positions can really help get our playbook up to par. If we are successful Garrett likely gets a HC gig, if we fail Garrett likely gets fired. So having those guys ready to fill in is a very good idea. Build our playbook, not reuse the Dallas playbook.
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Post by IrishMike on May 26, 2021 11:47:24 GMT -5
He makes most of his INT's when he’s late with throws. or when the ball bounces off the WRs hands lmao.
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Post by idkaname on May 26, 2021 16:12:51 GMT -5
LMAO ! Doesn’t the fact you have to post this tell you something ? um.. NO ! Not a franchise QB. Fans are swayed into believing he is a franchise QB because he was the #6 overall pick and we had no business selecting him there. I’m not not even sure he’s worthy of a 2nd round selection. 3rd round pick in my estimation... to your question...no. Posting this because it’s a legit possibility he’s the real deal. We have the best QB in the division and it isn’t close. Dak isn’t as good as the stats suggest, teams playing prevent defense when ur down 20-30 will do that. Add in the injury, Jones is the guy taking this division over
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Post by idkaname on May 26, 2021 16:17:38 GMT -5
I never said the OL isnt a problem and is definitely responsible for the some of the sacks etc. You make it seem like Jones is all good to go all he needs is weapons and a good OL. Well all QBs need that to succeed. Jones has, all on his very own, problems in the pocket above and beyond the OL's level of play. You can choose to be blind to that but thats just not the reality. I'm not saying Jones doesn't have issues in the pocket, but I think they're more related to slow processing times. He makes most of his INT's when he’s late with throws. In terms of the pressure, he’s being coached to make his reads and deliver the ball within 3 seconds. I don't think he's being told to listen for footsteps. They are trying to get the OL's blocking to where he can do his job. Sensing pressure will come in time and with better protection. I think his biggest issue overall is making his reads. He misses way too many open receivers and locks into one area of the field too much. He left about 5 TD's on the field by not spotting the open receiver. This keeps getting stated over and over “Jones has pocket presence issues” can you provide me some examples ? All I saw was a 2nd year QB with below AVG o line play, receivers that couldn’t get separation, and a TE that is about as dependable as 1 ply toilet paper. Add in the fact that he was probably told to make quick reads/minimize risks to let the defense keep it close cuz judge gets it. Add some confidence to Jones with quality separation from WRS and dependable catchers and you’ll see a different player than u have fabricated in ur head
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Post by idkaname on May 26, 2021 16:18:43 GMT -5
or when the ball bounces off the WRs hands lmao. ....like this? this proves it! Engram was tanking to help the team get better draft picks
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Post by IrishMike on May 26, 2021 17:27:53 GMT -5
or when the ball bounces off the WRs hands lmao. ....like this? I tried to watch. Could only make it halfway through before i couldn't take it anymore. My goodness that was bad. So much potential.
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Post by Vandelay on May 26, 2021 18:21:01 GMT -5
LMAO ! Doesn’t the fact you have to post this tell you something ? um.. NO ! Not a franchise QB. Fans are swayed into believing he is a franchise QB because he was the #6 overall pick and we had no business selecting him there. I’m not not even sure he’s worthy of a 2nd round selection. 3rd round pick in my estimation... to your question...no. Posting this because it’s a legit possibility he’s the real deal. We have the best QB in the division and it isn’t close. Dak isn’t as good as the stats suggest, teams playing prevent defense when ur down 20-30 will do that. Add in the injury, Jones is the guy taking this division over He’s just gets too amped up and panics. The Cam Heyward interception near the Steelers goal line and Falling on his face on that 80yard sprint against Philly are just a few examples. It’s not that easy to learn to be confident and keep cool and not panic. I hope you’re right and he figures it out but I’m not feeling good about it from what I’ve seen. Oh yeah, he’s hasn’t been , isn’t, and probably will not be better than pre-injury Dak.
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Post by vinnie on May 26, 2021 20:07:42 GMT -5
That would be a nightmare scenario. As I’ve said before, I don’t trust the O line but if the O line does play well, I’d rather see Jones doesn’t play lights out (obviously) or fall flat on his face. Worst case would be O line plays ok, Jones shows minimal progress and they use the 2 first round picks next year on the O line instead of drafting almost any QB they want for a minimal price tag considering the picks we’ll have. If we want a new QB, next year will be the best capital we have to do it without sacrificing the future. Unless they are a 100% sure on Jones, they need to draft a QB. how about "you'd rather see the oline play AND Jones play well. In what scenario would you not want to see Jones play lights out? I am not getting this at all. Yeah, meant if the O line plays well I’d rather see him play lights out or fall flat on his face. I don’t want any mediocrity and/or a bunch of question marks that would cause Mara and Co to bring him back another year and not use the 2 firsts to draft almost any QB we want.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 20:23:16 GMT -5
Honestly to me, Jones is literally a Eli duplicate - in the sense that we’ll see brilliance and WTF his whole career. With that said, franchise QB all the way...many of his best plays have come in the clutch and that TB game his rookie year is truly an incredible achievement that gets overlooked... He’ll never be MVP but he will see the pro bowl quite a few times. Yes... and he will be an MVP one day.
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Post by IrishMike on May 26, 2021 20:59:05 GMT -5
I tried to watch. Could only make it halfway through before i couldn't take it anymore. My goodness that was bad. So much potential. I hear the crap about Jones and the O line and I look at that and honestly don't understand how he made the pro bowl. No one knows how he made the Pro Bowl. Lots of top TEs were injured though. Just like our pass rush got better with better DB play, our pass pro will get better with better WR play.
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Post by snyder55 on May 27, 2021 9:26:05 GMT -5
I think the question at this point in Jone's career is should we keep him if he has another struggling season and underperforms, or should we just move on and find his replacement. I think the kid has talent but he has to find a way to cut down on his mistakes...
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Post by GameTime on May 27, 2021 10:02:07 GMT -5
I think the question at this point in Jone's career is should we keep him if he has another struggling season and underperforms, or should we just move on and find his replacement. I think the kid has talent but he has to find a way to cut down on his mistakes... if he struggles with the same issues....lack of pocket awareness etc then you cut bait and go to the next QB up in the draft.
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Post by jb456 on May 27, 2021 10:44:30 GMT -5
or when the ball bounces off the WRs hands lmao. ....like this? I think I threw up in my mouth a little. There were a lot of game turning mistakes in the "Highlight" reel. He needs to be benched if this starts happening in 2021...
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Post by Martin on May 27, 2021 10:50:33 GMT -5
I think the question at this point in Jone's career is should we keep him if he has another struggling season and underperforms, or should we just move on and find his replacement. I think the kid has talent but he has to find a way to cut down on his mistakes... if he struggles with the same issues....lack of pocket awareness etc then you cut bait and go to the next QB up in the draft. His internal clock must get better. When a pass play is faster in timing (only 1st or 2nd read) that's not his problem because his internal clock is already set by the play. It's when he has to drop back further (5step) and read multiple routes that might be covered is where his clock waits too long. I watch him in those moments and yell at the TV. (throw it away or cover it up and run) Jones delays a little longer and then he gets in trouble. His awareness must be better this year or you have to think the possibility of a new QB. There are too many weapons now to find excuses. Unless the Oline is swiss cheese this year then its all on DJ.
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Post by snyder55 on May 27, 2021 15:45:42 GMT -5
I think the question at this point in Jone's career is should we keep him if he has another struggling season and underperforms, or should we just move on and find his replacement. I think the kid has talent but he has to find a way to cut down on his mistakes... if he struggles with the same issues....lack of pocket awareness etc then you cut bait and go to the next QB up in the draft. I agree but unfortunately that puts us behind at least another 2 or 3 years..
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Post by snyder55 on May 27, 2021 15:58:37 GMT -5
this is a recent quote from Amani Toomer...
“Unless he can figure out a way to take care of the football we’re never going to know how good he is because he’s going to be out of here, he’s gonna be on the next thing smokin’ as soon as possible if he can’t control - I mean, some of the turnovers are people just ripping the ball out of his hands...that’s just unacceptable,” Toomer said.
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Post by Roosevelt on May 29, 2021 8:51:05 GMT -5
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Post by Kruunch on May 29, 2021 10:17:28 GMT -5
this is a recent quote from Amani Toomer... “Unless he can figure out a way to take care of the football we’re never going to know how good he is because he’s going to be out of here, he’s gonna be on the next thing smokin’ as soon as possible if he can’t control - I mean, some of the turnovers are people just ripping the ball out of his hands...that’s just unacceptable,” Toomer said. Agreed. I’ve been banging that drum since his rookie year. You could be an accurate passer with the best deep ball in the league. (Allegedly) However, if you’re averaging a turnover a game. That means you’re ending drives and putting your defense in unfavorable situations. In 27 games, Jones has a ridiculous 52 turnovers. That’s 52 times he has put the ball in harms way. I don’t want to hear about tipped passes, or Evan Engram. Those numbers better come down, or he’ll be former NY Giants quarterback..
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