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Post by ocgiant on Jul 9, 2021 23:34:42 GMT -5
Is 2021 a fine tuning season for 2022 or is this current team a legit play-off contender?
I believe they are going to win more games this season and then next season go deep into the playoffs maybe SB bound? Only two obstacles 1) OL and 2) DJ establishes himself at the Franchise OB.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 10, 2021 0:54:16 GMT -5
Is 2021 a fine tuning season for 2022 or is this current team a legit play-off contender? I believe they are going to win more games this season and then next season go deep into the playoffs maybe SB bound? Only two obstacles 1) OL and 2) DJ establishes himself at the Franchise OB. **** that. I want them to win now. It's been long enough. I expect this team to battle into the playoffs and then battle throughout. Anything less and I'm disappointed. 2022 better be better but I am no t interested in fine tuning. Just win, baby.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 2:15:36 GMT -5
Is 2021 a fine tuning season for 2022 or is this current team a legit play-off contender? I believe they are going to win more games this season and then next season go deep into the playoffs maybe SB bound? Only two obstacles 1) OL and 2) DJ establishes himself at the Franchise OB. **** that. I want them to win now. It's been long enough. I expect this team to battle into the playoffs and then battle throughout. Anything less and I'm disappointed. 2022 better be better but I am no t interested in fine tuning. Just win, baby. Yeah, this is a must win more games vs losing year for so many reasons...GM, new QB...a Head Coach on a third year with a rookie QB...but possibly the most important aspect being the fans. Our patience is again wearing with now larger expectations. That makes for a hell of a recipe for total fan revolt if we have another brutal year....
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Post by GameTime on Jul 10, 2021 5:29:40 GMT -5
10 wins for me this season or else I will be bummed. Each year, in essence, should be a set up for the next to have success.
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Post by TEM on Jul 10, 2021 6:07:59 GMT -5
We are a win now team.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 10, 2021 7:42:44 GMT -5
The great franchise are always reloading and never rebuilding.
We need to leave the rebuilding behind once and for all.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 8:06:46 GMT -5
The great franchise are always reloading and never rebuilding. We need to leave the rebuilding behind once and for all. It certainly seems we have the right coach in place for that to happen. But that begs the question why did this team collapse under Coughlin?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 8:12:31 GMT -5
**** that. I want them to win now. It's been long enough. I expect this team to battle into the playoffs and then battle throughout. Anything less and I'm disappointed. 2022 better be better but I am no t interested in fine tuning. Just win, baby. Yeah, this is a must win more games vs losing year for so many reasons...GM, new QB...a Head Coach on a third year with a rookie QB...but possibly the most important aspect being the fans. Our patience is again wearing with now larger expectations. That makes for a hell of a recipe for total fan revolt if we have another brutal year.... Double digit wins for me I do think they are set up to take the next step in being superbowl contender year in and year out if they do good things with that 2022 draft capital. This year as far as I'm concern 10 or more wins playoffs, most importantly do not be an easy out show up and look like a clueless pack of fools. If they get in they better show up if they do get knocked out the team that beats them better know they played a game and have to do some quick heeling for their next game. I want Hard nosed consistent competitive football from here on out.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 8:24:34 GMT -5
The great franchise are always reloading and never rebuilding. We need to leave the rebuilding behind once and for all. It certainly seems we have the right coach in place for that to happen. But the. that begs the question why did this team collapse under Coughlin? I think about that a lot, I think at one point we were filling the roster with low level free agents they weren't drafting good enough players and they were in cap hell after the 2011 season it seams. These were not players drafted and born Giants they weren't TC guys the only one left at the end of 2015 was Eli, they even weeded out his coaching staff before they finally let him go, These are the things that made this organization a Cluster #$@%. My biggest question has always been at the end of 2015 or even 2014 they were terribly embarrassing both years probably including 2013 why didn't they just clean house instead they wasted another 4 or 5 year by trying to buy a competitive team it got them one embarrassing playoff appearance and cap hell till 2020. Kind of long but that is my take.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 8:31:17 GMT -5
The great franchise are always reloading and never rebuilding. We need to leave the rebuilding behind once and for all. Funny Jomo this is so spot on I thought back in 2007 JR had a great draft then we win the super bowl I was believing in the Giants big time that Reese and at that time Gettlemen and company were gonna have us in contention year in and year out. This just proves teams can't afford to blow 1 draft when it turns into multiple drafts the hole gets mighty deep really fast. We were on top of the world all that had to be done is maintaining a strong roster. Easier said then done.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Jul 10, 2021 8:44:43 GMT -5
It seems the pieces are in place for the Giants to at least make the playoffs THIS season....I would hope they can go farther than that.
The only major questions are Daniel Jones and the OL. Personally I think Jones has a great year. The OL? Well....jeez, if it ain't "fixed" by now I give up...it shouldn't take a friggin decade to do.
This is all of course if the team doesn't get decimated by injuries.
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Post by TEM on Jul 10, 2021 8:47:25 GMT -5
The great franchise are always reloading and never rebuilding. We need to leave the rebuilding behind once and for all. Funny Jomo this is so spot on I thought back in 2007 JR had a great draft then we win the super bowl I was believing in the Giants big time that Reese and at that time Gettlemen and company were gonna have us in contention year in and year out. This just proves teams can't afford to blow 1 draft when it turns into multiple drafts the hole gets mighty deep really fast. We were on top of the world all that had to be done is maintaining a strong roster. Easier said then done. 37% or Reese's picks ever made were DBs and WRs. That is an impossible way to build an competitive roster. That is not including the players at those positions he signed as FAs. We played well for 4 years. It was destine to fall apart.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 9:24:05 GMT -5
Never thought of it that way, but damn...we sure the hell are. This team gets blown up if we repeat last year...
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 9:40:52 GMT -5
It certainly seems we have the right coach in place for that to happen. But the. that begs the question why did this team collapse under Coughlin? I think about that a lot, I think at one point we were filling the roster with low level free agents they weren't drafting good enough players and they were in cap hell after the 2011 season it seams. These were not players drafted and born Giants they weren't TC guys the only one left at the end of 2015 was Eli, they even weeded out his coaching staff before they finally let him go, These are the things that made this organization a Cluster #$@%. My biggest question has always been at the end of 2015 or even 2014 they were terribly embarrassing both years probably including 2013 why didn't they just clean house instead they wasted another 4 or 5 year by trying to buy a competitive team it got them one embarrassing playoff appearance and cap hell till 2020. Kind of long but that is my take. It’s hard to fathom the Giants not picking “TC guys” but I think you’re right. I cannot help but think Marc Ross thought he had a superior eye for talent and he drove the Giants into the ground with his drafts.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 9:48:25 GMT -5
Funny Jomo this is so spot on I thought back in 2007 JR had a great draft then we win the super bowl I was believing in the Giants big time that Reese and at that time Gettlemen and company were gonna have us in contention year in and year out. This just proves teams can't afford to blow 1 draft when it turns into multiple drafts the hole gets mighty deep really fast. We were on top of the world all that had to be done is maintaining a strong roster. Easier said then done. 37% or Reese's picks ever made were DBs and WRs. That is an impossible way to build an competitive roster. That is not including the players at those positions he singed as FAs. We played well for 4 years. It was destine to fall apart. I hate pointing to Reese, I will just say this the nucleus was there in 2007 they were about 2 to 4 years into their careers they were not able to maintain that through the draft. Causing them to keep digging deeper into free agency until the roster was no longer drafted Giants it was low level free agents that started around 2013 /2014 you can't hit on 1 or 2 picks every other year and 0 in some years and expect to be able to have a stable cap or roster. They got the last 4 or 5 years out of the nucleus they drafted they were on fumes in 2011 the draft problems started back as far as 2009 it just took about 4 or 5 years to catch up because the Eli's Tucks Snee Diehl BJ and Bradshaw and others still had some juice once that group thinned out it was over.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 9:57:57 GMT -5
I think about that a lot, I think at one point we were filling the roster with low level free agents they weren't drafting good enough players and they were in cap hell after the 2011 season it seams. These were not players drafted and born Giants they weren't TC guys the only one left at the end of 2015 was Eli, they even weeded out his coaching staff before they finally let him go, These are the things that made this organization a Cluster #$@%. My biggest question has always been at the end of 2015 or even 2014 they were terribly embarrassing both years probably including 2013 why didn't they just clean house instead they wasted another 4 or 5 year by trying to buy a competitive team it got them one embarrassing playoff appearance and cap hell till 2020. Kind of long but that is my take. It’s hard to fathom the Giants not picking “TC guys” but I think you’re right. I cannot help but think Marc Ross thought he had a superior eye for talent and he drove the Giants into the ground with his drafts. I'm with you there I have said this a million times Ross did not do for Reese what Reese did for Accorsi. Reese was superior to Ross when he was in that job and they had Gettlemen around to. I think they just flat out missed on way to many picks and had no money so they were filled with mid to low level free agents. Examples of the disconnect were picks like Clint Sintom an Odd man front pass rushing OLB drafted in to an even front team or travis Becham a west coast offense type TE an EE of his day could have done some damage on a team that used the TE that way. This is on TC and his staff to tho, as Judge says lets get them doing the things they do well design scheme to the players strengths. NFL is always changing maybe the front office was hoping TC would bend the scheme some to the players drafted strengths theres a lot to it really.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 10:13:38 GMT -5
It’s hard to fathom the Giants not picking “TC guys” but I think you’re right. I cannot help but think Marc Ross thought he had a superior eye for talent and he drove the Giants into the ground with his drafts. I'm with you there I have said this a million times Ross did not do for Reese what Reese did for Accorsi. Reese was superior to Ross when he was in that job and they had Gettlemen around to. I think they just flat out missed on way to many picks and had no money so they were filled with mid to low level free agents. Examples of the disconnect were picks like Clint Sintom an Odd man front pass rushing OLB drafted in to an even front team or travis Becham a west coast offense type TE an EE of his day could have done some damage on a team that used the TE that way. This is on TC and his staff to tho, as Judge says lets get them doing the things they do well design scheme to the players strengths. NFL is always changing maybe the front office was hoping TC would bend the scheme some to the players drafted strengths theres a lot to it really.
Excellent points. By the way I have a football signed by Clint and Ramses Barden - Reese/Ross' failed answer for the loss of Plaxico.
Tom seemed like a coach who valued systems over players. It was up to the player to conform to their systems and to his credit, it worked. He was a very successful coach, but it was one of the issues I had with him during his tenure with the Giants.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 10:16:46 GMT -5
Getting back on topic, I agree with those that feel we are a win now team. And we are not alone. There's quite a number of football analysts who believe we will be much improved this year.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 10:29:51 GMT -5
I'm with you there I have said this a million times Ross did not do for Reese what Reese did for Accorsi. Reese was superior to Ross when he was in that job and they had Gettlemen around to. I think they just flat out missed on way to many picks and had no money so they were filled with mid to low level free agents. Examples of the disconnect were picks like Clint Sintom an Odd man front pass rushing OLB drafted in to an even front team or travis Becham a west coast offense type TE an EE of his day could have done some damage on a team that used the TE that way. This is on TC and his staff to tho, as Judge says lets get them doing the things they do well design scheme to the players strengths. NFL is always changing maybe the front office was hoping TC would bend the scheme some to the players drafted strengths theres a lot to it really.
Excellent points. By the way I have a football signed by Clint and Ramses Barden - Reese/Ross' failed answer for the loss of Plaxico.
Tom seemed like a coach who valued systems over players. It was up to the player to conform to their systems and to his credit, it worked. He was a very successful coach, but it was one of the issues I had with him during his tenure with the Giants.
Loved TC I really think to many misses was the main issue and really like you I hated the fact that even when the team was bad it was hard for them to get the young kids on field that was a big issue. Judge embraces player development he knows it will pay future dividends TC struggled there. But they have some of the same quality's also.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 12:06:58 GMT -5
Excellent points. By the way I have a football signed by Clint and Ramses Barden - Reese/Ross' failed answer for the loss of Plaxico.
Tom seemed like a coach who valued systems over players. It was up to the player to conform to their systems and to his credit, it worked. He was a very successful coach, but it was one of the issues I had with him during his tenure with the Giants.
Loved TC I really think to many misses was the main issue and really like you I hated the fact that even when the team was bad it was hard for them to get the young kids on field that was a big issue. Judge embraces player development he knows it will pay future dividends TC struggled there. But they have some of the same quality's also. I would say they both have a disciplined approach but Judge is a better communicator and quite frankly, he seems better in that regard over a lot of coaches.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 10, 2021 13:38:02 GMT -5
Loved TC I really think to many misses was the main issue and really like you I hated the fact that even when the team was bad it was hard for them to get the young kids on field that was a big issue. Judge embraces player development he knows it will pay future dividends TC struggled there. But they have some of the same quality's also. I would say they both have a disciplined approach but Judge is a better communicator and quite frankly, he seems better in that regard over a lot of coaches. How is he a better communicator? He’s been here for five minutes. All we know about him is every other word out of his mouth is football jargon.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 15:37:53 GMT -5
Loved TC I really think to many misses was the main issue and really like you I hated the fact that even when the team was bad it was hard for them to get the young kids on field that was a big issue. Judge embraces player development he knows it will pay future dividends TC struggled there. But they have some of the same quality's also. I would say they both have a disciplined approach but Judge is a better communicator and quite frankly, he seems better in that regard over a lot of coaches. That is why I'm praying the Giants and Jones take the leap because if they can DG I think they learned a lesson back 2015 when they let the coach go but held on to the GM yes they went to the playoff and the price admission was cap hell for 3 years and being more inept then they already were if that is at all possible. I worry the lesson is clean the whole house not just closets.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 15:40:42 GMT -5
I would say they both have a disciplined approach but Judge is a better communicator and quite frankly, he seems better in that regard over a lot of coaches. How is he a better communicator? He’s been here for five minutes. All we know about him is every other word out of his mouth is football jargon. What I think he does a better job of is getting young guys coached up and on the field TC and his staff struggled with that mightily. TC got better as time went on with being a communicator Judge seems to have a natural knack for it.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 10, 2021 19:43:21 GMT -5
The Giants have put together a team in 2021 that the organization feels is going to compete for the division and make the playoffs. They have put together what looks like a strong defense and a much improved offense.
The 2 big questions that everyone on the board has mentioned QB and OL. But the skill positions look ready to go. This should lead to a much improved season from a much stronger contender.
But next year the Giants should take a major step up from whatever success this year brings. Those draft choices 7 in the first 4 rounds, as we all know two 1st rounders. It will bring top rookie talent under a rookie pay scale. Were going to be damn tough next year. This year we could make the playoffs and hopefully so. But no matter where we finish this year next year should be better.
It doesn't mean were not competing this year it just means we have a chance to be signifyingly better next season. How can there be any criticism of this ?
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 10, 2021 19:48:21 GMT -5
How is he a better communicator? He’s been here for five minutes. All we know about him is every other word out of his mouth is football jargon. What I think he does a better job of is getting young guys coached up and on the field TC and his staff struggled with that mightily. TC got better as time went on with being a communicator Judge seems to have a natural knack for it. Tom Coughlin got a bunch of kids and an expansion team that was still in its infancy to the AFC Championship game. It also depends on the definition of “communication.” Being your friend, and patting you on the butt when you need it? That’s not Tom Coughlin, he’s going to ride you. And when you are ready to quit, ride you harder. Judge is a well spoken coach. Who knows what to say and when to say it. Wasn’t aware that means he’s a master of communication skills.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 10, 2021 20:10:54 GMT -5
It seems the pieces are in place for the Giants to at least make the playoffs THIS season....I would hope they can go farther than that. The only major questions are Daniel Jones and the OL. Personally I think Jones has a great year. The OL? Well....jeez, if it ain't "fixed" by now I give up...it shouldn't take a friggin decade to do. This is all of course if the team doesn't get decimated by injuries. I agree Jones and the OL must step up. I think we are all up to our necks with these OL's over the last 7 years or so. But we look like we have made strides as well. The only thing I might disagree is you say "at least we should make the playoffs" not so sure. Lots of teams in the NFC look like their equal to us. Early predictions G.B., Dal., Sea. or L.A., Tampa as Div. winners. Beside us as wild card WFT, Minnesota, Carolina, and the other 3 teams in the NFC West. Thats 7 teams including us for 3 WC positions. I do think we'll be in the hunt and can make it but it should be a logjam of teams that don't win their division.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 20:21:39 GMT -5
I would say they both have a disciplined approach but Judge is a better communicator and quite frankly, he seems better in that regard over a lot of coaches. How is he a better communicator? He’s been here for five minutes. All we know about him is every other word out of his mouth is football jargon. With Shurmur and McAdoo you could tell immediately when they were uncomfortable. There's something different about Judge. He appears unflappable. Everything that comes out of his mouth is sound - it makes sense. And it wasn't as if this team's performance made his job easy. You can also look at the way the player's have responded to his coaching style as an indicator.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 10, 2021 20:24:30 GMT -5
How is he a better communicator? He’s been here for five minutes. All we know about him is every other word out of his mouth is football jargon. With Shurmur and McAdoo you could tell immediately when they were uncomfortable. There's something different about Judge. He appears unflappable. Everything that comes out of his mouth is sound - it makes sense. And it wasn't as if this team's performance made his job easy. The pet rock has better communication skills than those two. Judge got in the door with his talking, now talk is cheap.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 20:27:34 GMT -5
With Shurmur and McAdoo you could tell immediately when they were uncomfortable. There's something different about Judge. He appears unflappable. Everything that comes out of his mouth is sound - it makes sense. And it wasn't as if this team's performance made his job easy. The pet rock has better communication skills than those two. Judge got in the door with his talking, now talk is cheap.
I added a piece before I saw your response....
Judge seems to have a genuine concern about his players as opposed to someone like Tom. The players hated Tom in the beginning. The players seem to respect Judge.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 10, 2021 20:31:48 GMT -5
The pet rock has better communication skills than those two. Judge got in the door with his talking, now talk is cheap.
I added a piece before I saw your response....
Judge seems to have a genuine concern about his players as opposed to someone like Tom. The players hated Tom in the beginning. The players seem to respect Judge.
I agree with that. Judge understands in today’s NFL, you can’t be Vince Lombardi, or Paul Brown. You must coddle them, and be a mentor. Judge has always stressed teaching and putting players in position to succeed. Coughlin, is old school. How many players liked Parcells?
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