|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 10:12:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the update. This is great news but he is still injured and needs to be eased back. Hopefully we can get a prognoses soon and understand how much time he is going to miss. This situation just shines a massive spotlight on Guard. Giants management and their coaches are either going to come accross as highly intelligent or really stupid this year since so many have questioned the Giants Oline and depth and they haven't made any meaningful effort in FA or the draft to shore the line up... They did add depth this offseason. I don't know what you consider meaningful effort. Backups are backups. You don't want them playing. I believe they maintained depth but didn't add depth. They released their best guard and slotted their 5th round project into the starting slot and added Zach Fulton. Technically, Fulton may have been a bit better than Lemieux last year so I guess I see your point.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 10:21:28 GMT -5
They did add depth this offseason. I don't know what you consider meaningful effort. Backups are backups. You don't want them playing. It's not like they went into this offseason and purposely said we are going to completely ignore O line...especially after 3 of the 1st 5 picks last year were on the O line (unlike WR where they only makee 1 5th round selection and a bad FA band aid signing from 2018 till tbis past year when they had no choice ) And if they had opportunity they probably would have taken a guy somewhere in the draft. I'm going to have to disagree with you there bud. It looks like they ignored it completely this year and only added Fulton to back up Zeitler. Last year was better with Zeitler being backed up by Lemieux rather than Fulton backing up Lemieux. Also, they are banking on all of last years draft picks (Andrews, Peart and Lemieux) starting. While it is rational to slot your #4 pick as a starting tackle, slotting your 3rd and 5th round pick as starters is risky at best. Shit, the Giants would be lucky to get a decent starting tackle out of the 3rd round even if Lemieux goes down in flames. That would be a very good draft. If the Giants successfully drafted 3 starting quality Oline in 1 draft, that's a 1 in 10+ year draft. It looks like the Giants are playing the ****ing lottery at this point...
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Jul 30, 2021 10:37:58 GMT -5
I'm going to have to disagree with you there bud. It looks like they ignored it completely this year and only added Fulton to back up Zeitler. Last year was better with Zeitler being backed up by Lemieux rather than Fulton backing up Lemieux. Also, they are banking on all of last years draft picks (Andrews, Peart and Lemieux) starting. While it is rational to slot your #4 pick as a starting tackle, slotting your 3rd and 5th round pick as starters is risky at best. Shit, the Giants would be lucky to get a decent starting tackle out of the 3rd round even if Lemieux goes down in flames. That would be a very good draft. If the Giants successfully drafted 3 starting quality Oline in 1 draft, that's a 1 in 10+ year draft. It looks like the Giants are playing the ****ing lottery at this point... We also "added" Solder back in as a back up this year. So they ultimately added Fulton and Solder and have plenty of bodies to compete. More importantly we added COACHES to get these players where they need to be. Ultimately if we can't train and develop our players it won't matter who the hell we sign or draft. Good teams don't just get lucky by drafting players that start for them, they train and develop them to be starters.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Jul 30, 2021 10:41:12 GMT -5
They did add depth this offseason. I don't know what you consider meaningful effort. Backups are backups. You don't want them playing. I believe they maintained depth but didn't add depth. They released their best guard and slotted their 5th round project into the starting slot and added Zach Fulton. Technically, Fulton may have been a bit better than Lemieux last year so I guess I see your point. They signed Fulton and Harrison (underrated signing). Wiggins filled in for Lemiuex so they feel strongly about him.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 10:47:21 GMT -5
I'm going to have to disagree with you there bud. It looks like they ignored it completely this year and only added Fulton to back up Zeitler. Last year was better with Zeitler being backed up by Lemieux rather than Fulton backing up Lemieux. Also, they are banking on all of last years draft picks (Andrews, Peart and Lemieux) starting. While it is rational to slot your #4 pick as a starting tackle, slotting your 3rd and 5th round pick as starters is risky at best. Shit, the Giants would be lucky to get a decent starting tackle out of the 3rd round even if Lemieux goes down in flames. That would be a very good draft. If the Giants successfully drafted 3 starting quality Oline in 1 draft, that's a 1 in 10+ year draft. It looks like the Giants are playing the ****ing lottery at this point... We also "added" Solder back in as a back up this year. So they ultimately added Fulton and Solder and have plenty of bodies to compete. More importantly we added COACHES to get these players where they need to be. Ultimately if we can't train and develop our players it won't matter who the hell we sign or draft. Good teams don't just get lucky by drafting players that start for them, they train and develop them to be starters.
Good point on Solder, that's true. I even mentioned in several posts a while back that one could argue that the Giants actually improved at tackle since Flemming was even worse than solder and Peart had a year under his belt. I was actually referring specifically to the Guard position. Also, while I 100 percent agree that the coaches need to develop players, are the Giants expecting way to much out of the coaches to expect a 3rd round tackle to start and 5th round guard to start? I actually faith in the coaches but that is a huge ask for even the best coaches in the entire league.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 10:56:27 GMT -5
I believe they maintained depth but didn't add depth. They released their best guard and slotted their 5th round project into the starting slot and added Zach Fulton. Technically, Fulton may have been a bit better than Lemieux last year so I guess I see your point. They signed Fulton and Harrison (underrated signing). Wiggins filled in for Lemiuex so they feel strongly about him. Good post. Do you think they are in a good spot at Guard at this point?
|
|
|
Post by Blue Hulk on Jul 30, 2021 11:06:01 GMT -5
What do I know..... Paranoia is real.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Jul 30, 2021 11:51:54 GMT -5
They signed Fulton and Harrison (underrated signing). Wiggins filled in for Lemiuex so they feel strongly about him. Good post. Do you think they are in a good spot at Guard at this point? That's the $1M question. I think it entirely depends completely on Lemieux. I am ok with the backups, in theory. Hard to say at this point.
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Jul 30, 2021 11:58:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 12:24:10 GMT -5
Good post. Do you think they are in a good spot at Guard at this point? That's the $1M question. I think it entirely depends completely on Lemieux. I am ok with the backups, in theory. Hard to say at this point. I liked Lemieux's potential but he needs to take a big step forward this year for sure. IMO, the Oline (guard since I think the Giants will be at least ok at T) QB, & RB are by far the biggest questions marks this year. Jones has to prove he can be a franchise Qb and Barkley has to prove he can stay healthy...
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 30, 2021 13:16:40 GMT -5
They did add depth this offseason. I don't know what you consider meaningful effort. Backups are backups. You don't want them playing. I believe they maintained depth but didn't add depth. They released their best guard and slotted their 5th round project into the starting slot and added Zach Fulton. Technically, Fulton may have been a bit better than Lemieux last year so I guess I see your point. Fulton has 90 starts in the NFL last year he had a tough season for sure but he has been a middle of the pack guard the rest of his career. Lets hope part of last year was covid not having an off season affected him and D Watson does hold the ball and runs himself into some sacks also.
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 30, 2021 13:32:03 GMT -5
This comment made me remember Ballard trying to run on his torn knee during the SB but I think that was a meniscus tear.. It was an ACL tear..apparently he didn't think it was that bad initially until he tried to test it. Yea he was running or should I say tying to run on the sideline. Ballard was a tuff dude man he was big and slow but held on to everything that touched his hands while taking some big hits. Tough cover on those vertical seem routes he was big tall and would just out Muscle the opponent.
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jul 30, 2021 13:36:03 GMT -5
Great news! Maybe it will rattle the front office a bit and move them to make a move or two on the OL before the season.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 30, 2021 14:03:12 GMT -5
What I don’t get is since they wanted him to play aTE, if he still passed all the fitness tests, what if he put on 18 lbs of muscle? Wouldn’t his BMI be more important than just weight? I’d rather have a TE that was 270 and could do all the same things as one who was 250. There’s plenty of times when I have less body fat and more muscle at 265 than I do at 250-255 depending on what my goals are. Erm If he put on 18 lbs of muscle in a month and a half at his age ...... Just saying Ah…I didn’t realize it was only a month and a half. Yeah…that would require some contraband, lol.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 30, 2021 14:06:48 GMT -5
Good news, but getting carted off in a no pads limited contact practice is still not good. Just slightly better than showing up to camp already hurt. I mean I’m glad it doesn’t sound serious and I hope he does well but it’s no sigh of relief for me, it’s more like “here we go again, better watch your 6 DJ”. Actually DJ needs to watch his 1-12 with this line.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Jul 30, 2021 14:07:30 GMT -5
Erm If he put on 18 lbs of muscle in a month and a half at his age ...... Just saying Ah…I didn’t realize it was only a month and a half. Yeah…that would require some contraband, lol. Juuuust a little and then he would have been popped with a PED suspension Then his excuse would be iT wAs tHe cOvId vAcCiNe
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 30, 2021 14:08:40 GMT -5
That's the $1M question. I think it entirely depends completely on Lemieux. I am ok with the backups, in theory. Hard to say at this point. I liked Lemieux's potential but he needs to take a big step forward this year for sure. IMO, the Oline (guard since I think the Giants will be at least ok at T) QB, & RB are by far the biggest questions marks this year. Jones has to prove he can be a franchise Qb and Barkley has to prove he can stay healthy... Agreed but I would add in RT. I feel so so about Thomas and Gates, I don’t think they’ll be dominant by any means but even adequate is a step up for this line.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 30, 2021 14:09:13 GMT -5
Ah…I didn’t realize it was only a month and a half. Yeah…that would require some contraband, lol. Juuuust a little and then he would have been popped with a PED suspension Then his excuse would be iT wAs tHe cOvId vAcCiNe Fertility brah, lol. He was just trying to conceive!
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 14:16:40 GMT -5
I liked Lemieux's potential but he needs to take a big step forward this year for sure. IMO, the Oline (guard since I think the Giants will be at least ok at T) QB, & RB are by far the biggest questions marks this year. Jones has to prove he can be a franchise Qb and Barkley has to prove he can stay healthy... Agreed but I would add in RT. I feel so so about Thomas and Gates, I don’t think they’ll be dominant by any means but even adequate is a step up for this line. RT? You don't like Peart being backed up by Solder? I actually like Peart even though he also had a rough time last year. He looked a lot better than Lemieux though.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Jul 30, 2021 15:23:33 GMT -5
I'm going to have to disagree with you there bud. It looks like they ignored it completely this year and only added Fulton to back up Zeitler. Last year was better with Zeitler being backed up by Lemieux rather than Fulton backing up Lemieux. Also, they are banking on all of last years draft picks (Andrews, Peart and Lemieux) starting. While it is rational to slot your #4 pick as a starting tackle, slotting your 3rd and 5th round pick as starters is risky at best. Shit, the Giants would be lucky to get a decent starting tackle out of the 3rd round even if Lemieux goes down in flames. That would be a very good draft. If the Giants successfully drafted 3 starting quality Oline in 1 draft, that's a 1 in 10+ year draft. It looks like the Giants are playing the ****ing lottery at this point... We also "added" Solder back in as a back up this year. So they ultimately added Fulton and Solder and have plenty of bodies to compete. More importantly we added COACHES to get these players where they need to be. Ultimately if we can't train and develop our players it won't matter who the hell we sign or draft. Good teams don't just get lucky by drafting players that start for them, they train and develop them to be starters.
I agree with you about adding coaches as being important, I'm at the point where I think good quality coaches are a significant factor in having a good Oline.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Jul 30, 2021 15:35:22 GMT -5
Good point on Solder, that's true. I even mentioned in several posts a while back that one could argue that the Giants actually improved at tackle since Flemming was even worse than solder and Peart had a year under his belt. I was actually referring specifically to the Guard position. Also, while I 100 percent agree that the coaches need to develop players, are the Giants expecting way to much out of the coaches to expect a 3rd round tackle to start and 5th round guard to start? I actually faith in the coaches but that is a huge ask for even the best coaches in the entire league. It will depend what Solder shows up. He has been out a year and the last time we seen him he was horrible.
As for the 3rd and 5th rounder I honestly don't think it's a crazy ask. The league is filled with middle round OL that are starting. Also Flaherty was brought in and he did a great job with a 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th and two undrafted guys in the past. I think it would be very impressive if all three OL we took in a single draft panned out, but IMO if you can develop guys then it's not too crazy to ask.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Jul 30, 2021 15:36:28 GMT -5
We also "added" Solder back in as a back up this year. So they ultimately added Fulton and Solder and have plenty of bodies to compete. More importantly we added COACHES to get these players where they need to be. Ultimately if we can't train and develop our players it won't matter who the hell we sign or draft. Good teams don't just get lucky by drafting players that start for them, they train and develop them to be starters.
I agree with you about adding coaches as being important, I'm at the point where I think good quality coaches are a significant factor in having a good Oline. Well we have seen that when you have poor coaches you get a poor Oline, so I think it makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 16:01:24 GMT -5
Good point on Solder, that's true. I even mentioned in several posts a while back that one could argue that the Giants actually improved at tackle since Flemming was even worse than solder and Peart had a year under his belt. I was actually referring specifically to the Guard position. Also, while I 100 percent agree that the coaches need to develop players, are the Giants expecting way to much out of the coaches to expect a 3rd round tackle to start and 5th round guard to start? I actually faith in the coaches but that is a huge ask for even the best coaches in the entire league. It will depend what Solder shows up. He has been out a year and the last time we seen him he was horrible.
As for the 3rd and 5th rounder I honestly don't think it's a crazy ask. The league is filled with middle round OL that are starting. Also Flaherty was brought in and he did a great job with a 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th and two undrafted guys in the past. I think it would be very impressive if all three OL we took in a single draft panned out, but IMO if you can develop guys then it's not too crazy to ask.
True, but as horrible as Solder was in 2019, he was better than Flemming in 2020. Plus I believe he was injured and is now slated as a backup vs. a starter. In regards to the 3rd and 5th rounder, you are 100 percent right that there a plenty of middle round OL starting but we are talking about 2 middle rounders from the same draft with only 1 year under their belt and limited snaps. I'm telling ya, if the Giants find 3 quality starting Oline in 1 draft, that is a once in 15 or 20 year class. Some teams never had that type of draft in their entire history.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jul 30, 2021 16:48:33 GMT -5
Good news, but getting carted off in a no pads limited contact practice is still not good. Just slightly better than showing up to camp already hurt. I mean I’m glad it doesn’t sound serious and I hope he does well but it’s no sigh of relief for me, it’s more like “here we go again, better watch your 6 DJ”. Actually DJ needs to watch his 1-12 with this line. on the side lines today. if it was even a little serious wouldnt he be iced up and elevated? IDK....very odd.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jul 30, 2021 16:53:26 GMT -5
I mean I’m glad it doesn’t sound serious and I hope he does well but it’s no sigh of relief for me, it’s more like “here we go again, better watch your 6 DJ”. Actually DJ needs to watch his 1-12 with this line. on the side lines today. if it was even a little serious wouldnt he be iced up and elevated? IDK....very odd. Lemieux looked 100% on the sidelines? Was he walking normally? Not participating, right?
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jul 30, 2021 16:54:52 GMT -5
on the side lines today. if it was even a little serious wouldnt he be iced up and elevated? IDK....very odd. Lemieux looked 100% on the sidelines? Was he walking normally? Not participating, right? if it was serious he would have not even been on the side lines at all. I never intimated he was 100% Not participating
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 30, 2021 17:01:25 GMT -5
Agreed but I would add in RT. I feel so so about Thomas and Gates, I don’t think they’ll be dominant by any means but even adequate is a step up for this line. RT? You don't like Peart being backed up by Solder? I actually like Peart even though he also had a rough time last year. He looked a lot better than Lemieux though. Definitely better than Lemieux but way to early for me to feel confident that he’ll be average to good. I don’t dislike any of them and ai
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 30, 2021 17:02:30 GMT -5
Agreed but I would add in RT. I feel so so about Thomas and Gates, I don’t think they’ll be dominant by any means but even adequate is a step up for this line. RT? You don't like Peart being backed up by Solder? I actually like Peart even though he also had a rough time last year. He looked a lot better than Lemieux though. Definitely better than Lemieux but way to early for me to feel confident that he’ll be average to good. I don’t dislike any of them and I realize they were/are young, had challenges, etc but the jury is out on the entire O line for me. I feel slightly better about some than others but that’s not saying much.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 30, 2021 17:05:08 GMT -5
I mean I’m glad it doesn’t sound serious and I hope he does well but it’s no sigh of relief for me, it’s more like “here we go again, better watch your 6 DJ”. Actually DJ needs to watch his 1-12 with this line. on the side lines today. if it was even a little serious wouldnt he be iced up and elevated? IDK....very odd. Perhaps, perhaps…depends what type of injury he had.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jul 30, 2021 17:07:44 GMT -5
RT? You don't like Peart being backed up by Solder? I actually like Peart even though he also had a rough time last year. He looked a lot better than Lemieux though. Definitely better than Lemieux but way to early for me to feel confident that he’ll be average to good. I don’t dislike any of them and I realize they were/are young, had challenges, etc but the jury is out on the entire O line for me. I feel slightly better about some than others but that’s not saying much. yep...the OL players are questionable as individual players and as a unit. What are the odds three second year players, a 3rd year player with only his second year at C and whom ever plays the other Guard spot actually all get good and gel? This assuming Lemeuix is ok to play. Even if his knee is not season ending injury how much time is he going to miss? he cant afford to miss much.
|
|