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Post by McCherry on Jul 31, 2021 15:45:26 GMT -5
You are only as good as your depth... Same with our recievers and secondary now ... we all saw what happened to Kansas City in the SB when they had no O line depth behind their injured starters... Who has good depth? You lose your tackles, you're done. That's what we learned from KC. These backups we have or might sign, you hope they never play for more than a few snaps.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 31, 2021 16:07:59 GMT -5
Don't know if this means Reiter is signing with the Texans or still coming in. I did not think Looney played well last year. Tells me Reiter wanted way too much
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Jul 31, 2021 17:18:11 GMT -5
Omg. Smh. Oline ignored this offseason. Harooni is getting upset!
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 18:40:48 GMT -5
If he has such a good eye for the O line why in the hell did he draft a RB with the second overall pick to run behind one of the worst lines in the league? Why is he going into year 4 of being GM and his number one priority, the O line, is still the weakest link on the team? Why has the O line been consistently ranked in the bottom of the league since he took over? Why have we had more linemen come in and out then any other team in the league over the past 4 years? Why did he draft the worst of the “big 4” tackles taken in the draft (so far)? Why has the the top of the second round pick, Hernandez, turned out to be a bust for where he was drafted? Coaching can only be blamed on so much. The only thing I liked about the DG hire was how he talked about how important it was to build from the inside out and that the O line was his number one priority. He failed miserably at both and I’m now convinced he absolutely sucks at evaluating O line talent. Picking a RB at #2 has nothing to do with an eye for OL. He has taken steps each year to improve the OL. We will see if all the resources he poured into it in year 3 works out. Having an eye for talent does not mean he is perfect nor does it mean he can overcome poor coaching. Some of his moves didn't work out, some can be blamed on coaching, some on him making the wrong decision.
Also I can't help but laugh at your worst of the big 4 comment. We are really judging a draft class after 1 year? Wirfs doesn't even play LT. Mekhi Becton was not drafted because he's an injury risk and missed several games already. And Wills is a stud, no complaints. It's way to early to decide if Judge got it right or not. I do wonder what made us pass on Wills considering our connection to Bama.
Yes, picking a RB does have to do with an eye for talent on the O line. It’s ridiculous to use the #2 overall pick on a RB, it’s even worse when he doesn’t have an O line to run behind which Gettleman thought was good or adequate. Lol, “he’s taken steps each year to improve the O line.” and that’s the problem, further evidence how incompetent he is when it comes to the O line. We didn’t have one starter on the line that has been there for more than a year with the exception of Hernandez who has regressed and was benched for a rookie who happened to be one of the worst guards in the league. You don’t get brownie points for trying. “Some” of his moves didn’t work out?! How about none of his moves have worked our? As far as Thomas and one year is why I put “so far” in parentheses. Also, don’t act like if he played better than all the others that people wouldn’t claim DG nailed it or would they say “Thomas had a great year and played better than everyone else but it’s too early to judge, Gettleman may have whiffed on another O lineman”? I hardly doubt it, it goes both ways.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 18:43:19 GMT -5
Underrated?! Lay off the pipe Rapoport. We get it … you hate the guy Hate? Hardly, I’ve even stated I hope he does well. Do I need to say how great he could become and pretend he wasn’t one of the worst guards in the league to not appear to hate him? Should I get on my knees? And please tell me how Lemieux is underrated, I can’t wait to hear this.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 31, 2021 19:33:22 GMT -5
We get it … you hate the guy Hate? Hardly, I’ve even stated I hope he does well. Do I need to say how great he could become and pretend he wasn’t one of the worst guards in the league to not appear to hate him? Should I get on my knees? And please tell me how Lemieux is underrated, I can’t wait to hear this.He's not the worst Guard in the league, for one.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 19:48:50 GMT -5
Hate? Hardly, I’ve even stated I hope he does well. Do I need to say how great he could become and pretend he wasn’t one of the worst guards in the league to not appear to hate him? Should I get on my knees? And please tell me how Lemieux is underrated, I can’t wait to hear this.He's not the worst Guard in the league, for one. He’s considered one of the worst guards in the league by some and the worst guard in the league by others. Regardless, he was bad, real bad. And what’s “for two”?
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Post by McCherry on Jul 31, 2021 19:53:23 GMT -5
He's not the worst Guard in the league, for one. He’s considered one of the worst guards in the league by some and the worst guard in the league by others. Regardless, he was bad, real bad. And what’s “for two”? By who? Can you name one legitimate football person on record as saying Lemiuex is the worst Guard in the NFL?
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 19:55:04 GMT -5
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Post by McCherry on Jul 31, 2021 20:23:23 GMT -5
So you don't actually have any legitimate names when you said: "He’s considered one of the worst guards in the league by some and the worst guard in the league by others."...
Only "PFF" rankings. I just wanted to point that out.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 31, 2021 20:25:57 GMT -5
We get it … you hate the guy Hate? Hardly, I’ve even stated I hope he does well. Do I need to say how great he could become and pretend he wasn’t one of the worst guards in the league to not appear to hate him? Should I get on my knees? And please tell me how Lemieux is underrated, I can’t wait to hear this. Why don’t you ask Ian Rappaport, since he’s the one who said it?
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 20:50:24 GMT -5
So you don't actually have any legitimate names when you said: "He’s considered one of the worst guards in the league by some and the worst guard in the league by others."...
Only "PFF" rankings. I just wanted to point that out. They weren’t all PFF rankings and who cares who said what, the stats don’t lie, that’s what’s most important not someone’s opinion and the stats say he sucks. I have no idea why you feel the need to defend him, we all want him to improve and be a successful guard for us but as of now he is very bad.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 20:58:29 GMT -5
Hate? Hardly, I’ve even stated I hope he does well. Do I need to say how great he could become and pretend he wasn’t one of the worst guards in the league to not appear to hate him? Should I get on my knees? And please tell me how Lemieux is underrated, I can’t wait to hear this. Why don’t you ask Ian Rappaport, since he’s the one who said it? Because you’re the one who claimed I hate Lemieux because I didn’t agree that he was underrated from the tweet you posted.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 31, 2021 21:26:45 GMT -5
Why don’t you ask Ian Rappaport, since he’s the one who said it? Because you’re the one who claimed I hate Lemieux because I didn’t agree that he was underrated from the tweet you posted. You’ve posted numerous times that you think Lemieux sucks (apparently based solely upon your review of PFF ratings). We get it. You’re a broken record at this point
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 31, 2021 22:51:10 GMT -5
Yes, picking a RB does have to do with an eye for talent on the O line. It’s ridiculous to use the #2 overall pick on a RB, it’s even worse when he doesn’t have an O line to run behind which Gettleman thought was good or adequate. Lol, “he’s taken steps each year to improve the O line.” and that’s the problem, further evidence how incompetent he is when it comes to the O line. We didn’t have one starter on the line that has been there for more than a year with the exception of Hernandez who has regressed and was benched for a rookie who happened to be one of the worst guards in the league. You don’t get brownie points for trying. “Some” of his moves didn’t work out?! How about none of his moves have worked our? As far as Thomas and one year is why I put “so far” in parentheses. Also, don’t act like if he played better than all the others that people wouldn’t claim DG nailed it or would they say “Thomas had a great year and played better than everyone else but it’s too early to judge, Gettleman may have whiffed on another O lineman”? I hardly doubt it, it goes both ways. Your first sentence sums up your entire argument. You dislike DG. Separate your personal feelings of DG from judging him here. Picking a RB #2 does not mean he does not have an eye for talent. He has stated many times before and after that pick he picks the best player. Barkley was 100% the best player in that draft (not trying to make you like the pick but it is irrelevant to his ability to judge an OL).
Year 1 Flowers was replaced by Solder. Solder played very well in 2018, is it DGs fault that Solder got worse after coming here? 2018 he also drafted Hernandez who was much better than Hart as a rookie. Is it DGs fault Hernandez has regressed since coming here? 2018 he also found Jamon Brown who played great here on the waiver wire to replace Omameh (who stunk that's ones on Dave). 2019 he released Brown and brought in Zeitler. I'm not sure how much blame to put on coaching but you're putting ZERO blame on coaching. Whether you like it or not every year since he came here he has replaced players on the OL with better players. The fact we can't name a single player that improved under Mac and Shurmur leads me to believe it had a lot to do with coaching.
Nick Gates our best Center in years DG found as an undrafted free agent. In Carolina he found quality starters in the mid rounds. Peart and Lemieux could possibly turn into quality starters and yes I dare wait longer than 1 season to judge whether Andrew Thomas was a good pick or not.
I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, it's clearly made up, but I want you to know why my OPINION is that he does have a good eye for OL talent.
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 31, 2021 23:00:36 GMT -5
He's not the worst Guard in the league, for one. He’s considered one of the worst guards in the league by some and the worst guard in the league by others. Regardless, he was bad, real bad. And what’s “for two”? Not to jump in the middle of someone else argument but if he is considered the worst guard in the league doesn't that go right along with the opinion that he is underrated? I mean we would not think he was underrated if you posted people saying he is average. Clearly the people that think he is underrated don't think he is the worst in the league...there for he is underrated by those that do.
I think he is underrated because people judge his entire game based on his pass protection. He was a very good run blocker last year and along with Thomas opened some HUGE running lanes.
This write up from Nick Falato does a great job of examining Lemieux. It's a little better than most (PFF) saying "this guy is the worst player ever durrr". It also points out some of the good in his pass blocking because "shockingly" he didn't suck on every snap.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 23:10:54 GMT -5
Because you’re the one who claimed I hate Lemieux because I didn’t agree that he was underrated from the tweet you posted. You’ve posted numerous times that you think Lemieux sucks (apparently based solely upon your review of PFF ratings). We get it. You’re a broken record at this point So because I think eh sucks means I hate him, got it, brilliant assumption. I also don’t need PFF to tell me he sucks, have have two eyes and aren’t in denial. PFF just helps support the fact that he sucks and the last article I posted also used analysis by a company other than PFF. I’ll be eagerly awaiting your posts, with breaking news and new thoughts, I’m sure they will be mesmerizing.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 23:17:48 GMT -5
He’s considered one of the worst guards in the league by some and the worst guard in the league by others. Regardless, he was bad, real bad. And what’s “for two”? Not to jump in the middle of someone else argument but if he is considered the worst guard in the league doesn't that go right along with the opinion that he is underrated? I mean we would not think he was underrated if you posted people saying he is average. Clearly the people that think he is underrated don't think he is the worst in the league...there for he is underrated by those that do.
I think he is underrated because people judge his entire game based on his pass protection. He was a very good run blocker last year and along with Thomas opened some HUGE running lanes.
This write up from Nick Falato does a great job of examining Lemieux. It's a little better than most (PFF) saying "this guy is the worst player ever durrr". It also points out some of the good in his pass blocking because "shockingly" he didn't suck on every snap.
I think to most people, he is one of the worst guards in the league and the stats back that up so based on that assumption he isn’t under rated unless people think he’s actually better than the stats suggest. I haven’t heard anyone maybe outside of Giants homers, talk about how Lemieux really is and just isn’t getting enough credit. Again, the last article I posted used analytics outside of PFF. I’m not the biggest PFF fan either but it’s one of the very few sites/companies that has some sort of analysis to grade players and if he was ranked as one of the better guards in the league then I guarantee all of the PFF haters would be using the score to defend Lemieux and Gettleman.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 31, 2021 23:22:14 GMT -5
Yes, picking a RB does have to do with an eye for talent on the O line. It’s ridiculous to use the #2 overall pick on a RB, it’s even worse when he doesn’t have an O line to run behind which Gettleman thought was good or adequate. Lol, “he’s taken steps each year to improve the O line.” and that’s the problem, further evidence how incompetent he is when it comes to the O line. We didn’t have one starter on the line that has been there for more than a year with the exception of Hernandez who has regressed and was benched for a rookie who happened to be one of the worst guards in the league. You don’t get brownie points for trying. “Some” of his moves didn’t work out?! How about none of his moves have worked our? As far as Thomas and one year is why I put “so far” in parentheses. Also, don’t act like if he played better than all the others that people wouldn’t claim DG nailed it or would they say “Thomas had a great year and played better than everyone else but it’s too early to judge, Gettleman may have whiffed on another O lineman”? I hardly doubt it, it goes both ways. Your first sentence sums up your entire argument. You dislike DG. Separate your personal feelings of DG from judging him here. Picking a RB #2 does not mean he does not have an eye for talent. He has stated many times before and after that pick he picks the best player. Barkley was 100% the best player in that draft (not trying to make you like the pick but it is irrelevant to his ability to judge an OL).
Year 1 Flowers was replaced by Solder. Solder played very well in 2018, is it DGs fault that Solder got worse after coming here? 2018 he also drafted Hernandez who was much better than Hart as a rookie. Is it DGs fault Hernandez has regressed since coming here? 2018 he also found Jamon Brown who played great here on the waiver wire to replace Omameh (who stunk that's ones on Dave). 2019 he released Brown and brought in Zeitler. I'm not sure how much blame to put on coaching but you're putting ZERO blame on coaching. Whether you like it or not every year since he came here he has replaced players on the OL with better players. The fact we can't name a single player that improved under Mac and Shurmur leads me to believe it had a lot to do with coaching.
Nick Gates our best Center in years DG found as an undrafted free agent. In Carolina he found quality starters in the mid rounds. Peart and Lemieux could possibly turn into quality starters and yes I dare wait longer than 1 season to judge whether Andrew Thomas was a good pick or not.
I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, it's clearly made up, but I want you to know why my OPINION is that he does have a good eye for OL talent.
I never said I put zero blame on coaching but I’m not going to use it as an excuse for every player over the past 3 years. So basically you think after 4 years of being a GM that Gettleman has just had a string of bad luck with every player on the O line whether it be due to injury or coaching? He’s had one quality starter over 3 years in Zeitler and the rest were the results of a series of unfortunate circumstances…I don’t buy it but you’re obviously entitled to your opinion.
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 31, 2021 23:28:23 GMT -5
I think to most people, he is one of the worst guards in the league and the stats back that up so based on that assumption he isn’t under rated unless people think he’s actually better than the stats suggest. I haven’t heard anyone maybe outside of Giants homers, talk about how Lemieux really is and just isn’t getting enough credit. Again, the last article I posted used analytics outside of PFF. I’m not the biggest PFF fan either but it’s one of the very few sites/companies that has some sort of analysis to grade players and if he was ranked as one of the better guards in the league then I guarantee all of the PFF haters would be using the score to defend Lemieux and Gettleman. Is Ian Rappaport a Giants homer?
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 1, 2021 6:13:31 GMT -5
You’ve posted numerous times that you think Lemieux sucks (apparently based solely upon your review of PFF ratings). We get it. You’re a broken record at this point So because I think eh sucks means I hate him, got it, brilliant assumption. I also don’t need PFF to tell me he sucks, have have two eyes and aren’t in denial. PFF just helps support the fact that he sucks and the last article I posted also used analysis by a company other than PFF. I’ll be eagerly awaiting your posts, with breaking news and new thoughts, I’m sure they will be mesmerizing. Like your dozens of mesmerizing posts about how our 5th round rookie OG didn’t play well as a starter last year? Real cutting edge stuff right there. Not sure if there is a poster in the world that can live up to those lofty standards!!!
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Post by GameTime on Aug 1, 2021 6:22:13 GMT -5
Lemieux had a bad season overall with some good things mixed in. The kid is a 5th round pick who has 504 snaps under his belt.
His career is far from decided. To say he "sucked" last season is ok to say he "sucks" as an NFL guard is yet to be determined.
A long shot for a 5th rounder to become great. We shall see.
The weeks he will lose not practicing is unfortunate.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 1, 2021 7:46:54 GMT -5
I think to most people, he is one of the worst guards in the league and the stats back that up so based on that assumption he isn’t under rated unless people think he’s actually better than the stats suggest. I haven’t heard anyone maybe outside of Giants homers, talk about how Lemieux really is and just isn’t getting enough credit. Again, the last article I posted used analytics outside of PFF. I’m not the biggest PFF fan either but it’s one of the very few sites/companies that has some sort of analysis to grade players and if he was ranked as one of the better guards in the league then I guarantee all of the PFF haters would be using the score to defend Lemieux and Gettleman. Is Ian Rappaport a Giants homer? Again, please explain to me who thinks he is underrated and why? Are there really a lot of people out there that think he is actually good overall? Being underrated means someone is more proficient than most people believe or that the stats show, Lemieux is neither.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 1, 2021 7:51:03 GMT -5
So because I think eh sucks means I hate him, got it, brilliant assumption. I also don’t need PFF to tell me he sucks, have have two eyes and aren’t in denial. PFF just helps support the fact that he sucks and the last article I posted also used analysis by a company other than PFF. I’ll be eagerly awaiting your posts, with breaking news and new thoughts, I’m sure they will be mesmerizing. Like your dozens of mesmerizing posts about how our 5th round rookie OG didn’t play well as a starter last year? Real cutting edge stuff right there. Not sure if there is a poster in the world that can live up to those lofty standards!!! Yeah, because there’s a lot of other topics to talk about. Maybe we can discuss how DJ will play this year. Oh wait, already did that. Maybe we can discuss what we think of Toney or how Judge is the best coach we’ve ever had. Maybe we can talk about how much the O line will improve because of new coaches or maybe we can post tweets from Ian Rapport with no follow up of our own opinions. If you don’t like talking about the same things, why even bring up Lemieux? Nice job hypocrite.
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 1, 2021 7:53:36 GMT -5
Is Ian Rappaport a Giants homer? Again, please explain to me who thinks he is underrated and why? Are there really a lot of people out there that think he is actually good overall? Being underrated means someone is more proficient than most people believe or that the stats show, Lemieux is neither. Look kids, Big Ben, Parliament!!
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Post by vinnie on Aug 1, 2021 7:54:43 GMT -5
Lemieux had a bad season overall with some good things mixed in. The kid is a 5th round pick who has 504 snaps under his belt. His career is far from decided. To say he "sucked" last season is ok to say he "sucks" as an NFL guard is yet to be determined. A long shot for a 5th rounder to become great. We shall see. The weeks he will lose not practicing is unfortunate. That’s fair, and I’ve stated several times I hope he can improve but until he does, he still sucks because the last time he played he wasn’t good. Hopefully he turns it around his horrible rookie year was just that. Sucks he got injured though, I was looking forward to seeing if and how much progress he’s made.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 1, 2021 7:56:06 GMT -5
Again, please explain to me who thinks he is underrated and why? Are there really a lot of people out there that think he is actually good overall? Being underrated means someone is more proficient than most people believe or that the stats show, Lemieux is neither. Look kids, Big Ben, Parliament!! Wonderful, so you don’t have an answer but you get butt hurt when I disagree with the tweet you posted but provided no content of your own.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 1, 2021 7:58:04 GMT -5
Is Ian Rappaport a Giants homer? Again, please explain to me who thinks he is underrated and why? Are there really a lot of people out there that think he is actually good overall? Being underrated means someone is more proficient than most people believe or that the stats show, Lemieux is neither. I'm worried about you Vinnie. You are asking me to explain who thinks he is underrated. I'm the second person to tell you it was Ian Rappaport that said it. Judging by this thread though more people think that. Most importantly I think Joe Judge disagrees because he would have to be the worst coach in history to start a guy that is the worst player in the league for 9 games and then bring him back the next season with the intent to start him again.
Yes you think he is the worst, clearly other people think he is more proficient than "the worst" and thus they think he underrated. You don't have to agree. In fact if we all did agree then no one would ever be underrated or overrated lol.
I can only speak for me though as to WHY. I already said many times he was a very good run blocker last year. So with that in mind I can't rate him as "the worst" OG in the league. I believe who ever was truly the worst last year probably isn't playing this year, at the very least not starting.
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 1, 2021 8:10:55 GMT -5
Look kids, Big Ben, Parliament!! Wonderful, so you don’t have an answer but you get butt hurt when I disagree with the tweet you posted but provided no content of your own. You are one odd dude. I posted a Tweet from Ian Rappaport, which contained an update on Lemieux’s condition, which I thought people would be interested in since he is a starter. You seized on the word “underrated” and disputed it. As I have said, you should dispute that with Rappaport, since he was the one who said it. I couldn’t care less if you agree with Rappaport’s use of the word “underrated” or not. Your fascination with Lemieux is just strange. You and Footie should get together for lunch.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 1, 2021 8:17:14 GMT -5
Don't know if this means Reiter is signing with the Texans or still coming in. I did not think Looney played well last year. Tells me Reiter wanted way too much Probably looking for a starting gig or at least the chance to win a starting job, thats a probably a little pricey for the Giants right now.
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