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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 27, 2021 8:32:45 GMT -5
saw that yesterday and started to make a post. Yeah 2 wks and 4 days ish till game time hopefully is enough to have him ready; though we may not need him against Denver, just in case would be great.
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 27, 2021 10:19:44 GMT -5
We signed three guys with injury histories (Golloday, Jackson and Ross) and drafted one (Toney). And guess what? They are all injured. Surprise, surprise. Now it looks like Azeez's workload is being managed ... is it because of the knee injury that caused him to drop in the draft
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 27, 2021 11:20:56 GMT -5
That is an incorrect assumption by you. Cool we disagree again.. This is fun and I see the other stuff you got schooled on was ignored.. Well played! We can disagree but I am stating a fact. OLs are not just built in the draft like you suggest. No team has ever won the SB with an OL that didn't have free agents on it. You need to use a combination of drafts and free agents to build a winning team, this includes your OL. When your entire argument is based on a false assumption I didn't see the need to discuss your other points.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 11:29:04 GMT -5
Cool we disagree again.. This is fun and I see the other stuff you got schooled on was ignored.. Well played! We can disagree but I am stating a fact. OLs are not just built in the draft like you suggest. No team has ever won the SB with an OL that didn't have free agents on it. You need to use a combination of drafts and free agents to build a winning team, this includes your OL. When your entire argument is based on a false assumption I didn't see the need to discuss your other points. Oh I see you're one of those people that EVERYTHING has to be spelled out perfectly (it must be a "mike" thing out here) .. My mistake and I'll adjust for you if I respond to one of your posts again.. You still are wrong about them putting a lot of investment into the oline especially compared to the CB position.. But hey lets nitpick a generalized statement about the EXACT way of building a group of 5 players instead.. LOL GO GIANTS!! Enjoy the weekend.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 27, 2021 11:34:13 GMT -5
Oh I see you're one of those people that EVERYTHING has to be spelled out perfectly (it must be a "mike" thing out here) .. My mistake and I'll adjust for you if I respond to one of your posts again.. You still are wrong about them putting a lot of investment into the oline especially compared to the CB position.. But hey lets nitpick a generalized statement about the EXACT way of building a group of 5 players instead.. LOL GO GIANTS!! Enjoy the weekend. I never said they invested more into the OL than the DBs. Sorry if my posting doesn't meet your needs, I will try better and would genuinely like to continue this discussion.
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Post by snyder55 on Aug 27, 2021 15:22:45 GMT -5
And of course THAT is the standard for a good signing. Whether or not they can practice. Well him not practicing sure seemed like a reason to call Dave a moron buffoon and Rudolph a bust. Guess it only works one way though. people use whatever seems to fit their narrative in a given situation, it looks good on a message board..
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Post by snyder55 on Aug 27, 2021 15:26:09 GMT -5
He is here as a complimentary piece not as the lead dog not worried about him as long as his snap count stays reasonable We signed him as the "anti Engram". Much less athletic but he has one of the lowest drops pct. in the NFL. I was under the impression that we signed Rudolph to be a red zone threat because thats one of the things he's good at..
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 27, 2021 15:41:17 GMT -5
We signed three guys with injury histories (Golloday, Jackson and Ross) and drafted one (Toney). And guess what? They are all injured. Surprise, surprise. Now it looks like Azeez's workload is being managed ... is it because of the knee injury that caused him to drop in the draft It seems that everyone is on some kind of restriction. It's not just us....It's all over the league.
I fear a lot of guys are going to get hurt the first few weeks of the season. It'll be most NFL players first real contact.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 27, 2021 16:27:29 GMT -5
Why do you always set the bar at "win the SB?" 19 different franchises have won the SB. Let's say, for easy math, there have been 30 teams on average in the NFL since 1966. That's 1620 teams who had a chance to win a Super Bowl. 19 accomplished it. Or in other words 1.1% of all teams in the Super Bowl era. And this is the measure you always use when trying to define if a team, player, position, unit, etc are successful? Seems illogical and unfair. btw.- the greatest offensive line of this era that is always cited, the Dallas Cowboys: their entire starting OL was drafted by the Cowboys Smith, Martin, Frederick, Leary, Free I just use the same standard others have been using since the Barkley draft. "No top 5 RBs have won the SB", "top paid RBs don't win the SB" ect ect.
The truth is using SB as the measuring stick is easy which is why so many people (myself included) use it. We can use any measure you would like though.
BTW that is false about the Cowboys. Every single Dallas OL had at least 1 free agent on it going back to 2014 when I stopped looking. The reason you can't build an OL strictly through the draft is because you would be dedicating so many resources to the OL that you would neglect other parts of the team, like the Dallas defense. Dallas is a great example of what happens when you develop your players though, maybe we should try that.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 27, 2021 17:26:08 GMT -5
Don't be daft, you know that the starting OL of Dallas is what was great. Not a FA back up. Which is why you quoted these words of mine, "btw.- the greatest offensive line of this era that is always cited, the Dallas Cowboys: their entire starting OL was drafted by the Cowboys." Wrong. I'm talking starting OL, I couldn't care less about their back ups.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 27, 2021 17:41:53 GMT -5
Wrong. I'm talking starting OL, I couldn't care less about their back ups.
Smith, Martin, Frederick, Leary, Free Who was a FA? Leary was not drafted by the Cowboys.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 27, 2021 18:04:25 GMT -5
Leary was not drafted by the Cowboys. jesus christ you're grasping for semantics. Sorry, the Cowboys selected him as an undrafted FA the day after the draft ended because he fell out of the draft due to a knee injury. I'm not grasping at anything. I made a comment, you decided to take my comment and try and show me how wrong I was by bringing up the Cowboys. I actually thought you were right, then I looked and turns out even they had free agents (Collins being the other one). My point remains the same. I disagree with the thought that you build a team or OL solely with the draft. Teams simply do not do that. If you put so many draft resources toward the OL then you will neglect other parts of the team, like that terrible Dallas D.
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njsean
Special Teams
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Post by njsean on Aug 28, 2021 6:06:03 GMT -5
Leary was not drafted by the Cowboys. jesus christ you're grasping for semantics. Sorry, the Cowboys selected him as an undrafted FA the day after the draft ended because he fell out of the draft due to a knee injury. No one would argue against the importance of the OL. Claiming it wouldn’t make anyone particularly filled with groundbreaking insight. But the question is how much capital can a team reasonably invest. Unlike the Cowboys, I prefer the longevity and consistency of NE’s approach to their line. Mid round picks, low marquee FA, and great development - most importantly. I’ve always seen them as a benchmark. And if the argument is about investment - I’d agree with the other poster that UDFA is more stepping in shit than a mindful allocation of resources. When we signed Cruz as a FA, I wouldn’t have clapped and thought we were finally investing in our WR - I just thought we got lucky he worked out.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 28, 2021 6:30:52 GMT -5
jesus christ you're grasping for semantics. Sorry, the Cowboys selected him as an undrafted FA the day after the draft ended because he fell out of the draft due to a knee injury. No one would argue against the importance of the OL. Claiming it wouldn’t make anyone particularly filled with groundbreaking insight. But the question is how much capital can a team reasonably invest. Unlike the Cowboys, I prefer the longevity and consistency of NE’s approach to their line. Mid round picks, low marquee FA, and great development - most importantly. I’ve always seen them as a benchmark. And if the argument is about investment - I’d agree with the other poster that UDFA is more stepping in shit than a mindful allocation of resources. When we signed Cruz as a FA, I wouldn’t have clapped and thought we were finally investing in our WR - I just thought we got lucky he worked out. you left out having one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game who gets rid of the ball very quickly. They also focus on the short passing game. The key is when Brady has the time he makes the most of it. Brady was the biggest factor in that OL approach working the way it did. Not saying that approach cant work for another team of course but it wont work nearly as well most likely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2021 7:48:50 GMT -5
jesus christ you're grasping for semantics. Sorry, the Cowboys selected him as an undrafted FA the day after the draft ended because he fell out of the draft due to a knee injury. No one would argue against the importance of the OL. Claiming it wouldn’t make anyone particularly filled with groundbreaking insight. But the question is how much capital can a team reasonably invest. Unlike the Cowboys, I prefer the longevity and consistency of NE’s approach to their line. Mid round picks, low marquee FA, and great development - most importantly. I’ve always seen them as a benchmark. And if the argument is about investment - I’d agree with the other poster that UDFA is more stepping in shit than a mindful allocation of resources. When we signed Cruz as a FA, I wouldn’t have clapped and thought we were finally investing in our WR - I just thought we got lucky he worked out. Mid round picks are important in building an oline especially for depth. So how has Getty done in that area since it was his mission statement to make it solid from the start?
Instead we have a cut 4th round QB and a few 3rd round pass rushers who can't stay on the field along with a DT that was replaced with a 3rd round trade for a player becoming a FA..
Thankfully they did step in some shit for Gates..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2021 7:50:22 GMT -5
No one would argue against the importance of the OL. Claiming it wouldn’t make anyone particularly filled with groundbreaking insight. But the question is how much capital can a team reasonably invest. Unlike the Cowboys, I prefer the longevity and consistency of NE’s approach to their line. Mid round picks, low marquee FA, and great development - most importantly. I’ve always seen them as a benchmark. And if the argument is about investment - I’d agree with the other poster that UDFA is more stepping in shit than a mindful allocation of resources. When we signed Cruz as a FA, I wouldn’t have clapped and thought we were finally investing in our WR - I just thought we got lucky he worked out. you left out having one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game who gets rid of the ball very quickly. They also focus on the short passing game. The key is when Brady has the time he makes the most of it. Brady was the biggest factor in that OL approach working the way it did. Not saying that approach cant work for another team of course but it wont work nearly as well most likely. So true but the Getty and his people don't understand this..
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Post by GameTime on Aug 28, 2021 8:12:01 GMT -5
you left out having one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game who gets rid of the ball very quickly. They also focus on the short passing game. The key is when Brady has the time he makes the most of it. Brady was the biggest factor in that OL approach working the way it did. Not saying that approach cant work for another team of course but it wont work nearly as well most likely. So true but the Getty and his people don't understand this.. I dont know what they see differently that what we see. I was certainly surprised they didnt take an OL in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round. The only thing I have to fall back on is the 2020 draft they took 3 OL in the top 5 rounds. If these guys pan out then they DG, JJ and staff did something right. At some point you have to see if your draft picks are what you thought they'd become. Unfortunately they are banking in 3 guys t do it in the same season. If Jones becomes the franchise then they did something right. there too.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 28, 2021 8:20:46 GMT -5
I just use the same standard others have been using since the Barkley draft. "No top 5 RBs have won the SB", "top paid RBs don't win the SB" ect ect.
The truth is using SB as the measuring stick is easy which is why so many people (myself included) use it. We can use any measure you would like though.
BTW that is false about the Cowboys. Every single Dallas OL had at least 1 free agent on it going back to 2014 when I stopped looking. The reason you can't build an OL strictly through the draft is because you would be dedicating so many resources to the OL that you would neglect other parts of the team, like the Dallas defense. Dallas is a great example of what happens when you develop your players though, maybe we should try that.
Don't be daft, you know that the starting OL of Dallas is what was great. Not a FA back up. Which is why you quoted these words of mine, "btw.- the greatest offensive line of this era that is always cited, the Dallas Cowboys: their entire starting OL was drafted by the Cowboys." .....and exactly what did the greatest vanity OL of that era win? Let me help with the answer...............nothing.
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 28, 2021 8:38:11 GMT -5
We signed three guys with injury histories (Golloday, Jackson and Ross) and drafted one (Toney). And guess what? They are all injured. Surprise, surprise. Now it looks like Azeez's workload is being managed ... is it because of the knee injury that caused him to drop in the draft Each day closer to the season brings into clearer focus the Giants very precarious situation and the very real possibility of a top 5 draft slot in 2022.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 28, 2021 8:42:24 GMT -5
Now it looks like Azeez's workload is being managed ... is it because of the knee injury that caused him to drop in the draft It seems that everyone is on some kind of restriction. It's not just us....It's all over the league.
I fear a lot of guys are going to get hurt the first few weeks of the season. It'll be most NFL players first real contact.
I’m ok with the restrictions. We don’t want another Nicks situation.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 28, 2021 8:53:58 GMT -5
Now it looks like Azeez's workload is being managed ... is it because of the knee injury that caused him to drop in the draft Each day closer to the season brings into clearer focus the Giants very precarious situation and the very real possibility of a top 5 draft slot in 2022. or not what do expect in preseason? No injuries and perfect play reported everyday?
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njsean
Special Teams
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Post by njsean on Aug 28, 2021 11:30:11 GMT -5
No one would argue against the importance of the OL. Claiming it wouldn’t make anyone particularly filled with groundbreaking insight. But the question is how much capital can a team reasonably invest. Unlike the Cowboys, I prefer the longevity and consistency of NE’s approach to their line. Mid round picks, low marquee FA, and great development - most importantly. I’ve always seen them as a benchmark. And if the argument is about investment - I’d agree with the other poster that UDFA is more stepping in shit than a mindful allocation of resources. When we signed Cruz as a FA, I wouldn’t have clapped and thought we were finally investing in our WR - I just thought we got lucky he worked out. you left out having one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game who gets rid of the ball very quickly. They also focus on the short passing game. The key is when Brady has the time he makes the most of it. Brady was the biggest factor in that OL approach working the way it did. Not saying that approach cant work for another team of course but it wont work nearly as well most likely. I don’t disagree that having a Brady makes everything look better. But they’ve had an effective oline for years, both in run blocking and pass protecting. We’ve all seen the plays where Brady released it quick, but we’ve all seen the ones where he was allowed to stand like a statue and scan the field. They’re a well coach and disciplined group and have been for years.
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Post by roundabout on Aug 28, 2021 11:32:41 GMT -5
Now it looks like Azeez's workload is being managed ... is it because of the knee injury that caused him to drop in the draft Each day closer to the season brings into clearer focus the Giants very precarious situation and the very real possibility of a top 5 draft slot in 2022. What a ridiculous response to the above post
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njsean
Special Teams
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Post by njsean on Aug 28, 2021 11:32:43 GMT -5
Don't be daft, you know that the starting OL of Dallas is what was great. Not a FA back up. Which is why you quoted these words of mine, "btw.- the greatest offensive line of this era that is always cited, the Dallas Cowboys: their entire starting OL was drafted by the Cowboys." .....and exactly what did the greatest vanity OL of that era win? Let me help with the answer...............nothing. The division. Which is more than we’ve been doing. I think if we’re looking for a new bar to set other than SB victories - let’s set it at division championships. Can’t win the tournament if you’re not invited.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 28, 2021 16:43:37 GMT -5
you left out having one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game who gets rid of the ball very quickly. They also focus on the short passing game. The key is when Brady has the time he makes the most of it. Brady was the biggest factor in that OL approach working the way it did. Not saying that approach cant work for another team of course but it wont work nearly as well most likely. I don’t disagree that having a Brady makes everything look better. But they’ve had an effective oline for years, both in run blocking and pass protecting. We’ve all seen the plays where Brady released it quick, but we’ve all seen the ones where he was allowed to stand like a statue and scan the field. They’re a well coach and disciplined group and have been for years. no doubt and I did mention when Brady has time he makes the most of it.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 29, 2021 10:16:44 GMT -5
lol. Here's a hint: That forum cliche was stale back in 1999. But to answer your question, like the guy above did, they won the division three times and been to the playoffs three times. Meanwhile the Giants have amassed the 3rd lowest win total in the NFL in that same time span. I get why people would advocate we follow the Cowboys method. Afterall they have the best OL and football and who would not want that? The problem is we DID follow their method and it didn't work out, in fact it went horribly wrong for us and lead to us having the 3rd lowest win total. Go back to 2010 when the Cowboys started building that OL. They have drafted 3 first round and 2 second round OL. Along with 4 mid/late round picks on the OL. The Giants in the same span drafted 3 first round and 2 second OL, along with 8 mid/late round OL. We have spent MORE draft capital than the Cowboys trying to do it the same way.
Simply pointing at the Cowboys and saying we should do it like that is foolish because we tried that and it didn't work. Now it's time to try and develop some players and see if that works out. This is not my opinion on what we should do, this is what the NY Giants are doing. Will it work? We will find out soon enough.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 29, 2021 10:18:45 GMT -5
I don’t disagree that having a Brady makes everything look better. But they’ve had an effective oline for years, both in run blocking and pass protecting. We’ve all seen the plays where Brady released it quick, but we’ve all seen the ones where he was allowed to stand like a statue and scan the field. They’re a well coach and disciplined group and have been for years. no doubt and I did mention when Brady has time he makes the most of it. The Pats have also always tailored their offense around the players they had. Yes Brady is a big part of that but there was a time they ran a deep attack offense with Randy Moss and lit the scoreboard up. When they had OLs that could not sustain those blocks to support it they changed their approach, got smaller quick WRs and ran a short passing attack. There was a season they decided to run the ball like crazy as well. Tailoring your approach makes a big difference.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 29, 2021 11:43:39 GMT -5
Absolutely spot on. I think it was in the “Saquon” thread where I pointed out the enormous amount of equity Gettleman has dumped into the OL and it’s still bad (this year TBD). That is a major indictment on Gettleman’s inability to scout OL talent and have to proper staff in place to develop it. Which is terrible considering his reputation of being a guy who builds OLs Oddly enough it was me pointing out that we spent a lot of resources on the OL that started this entire discussion lol. It goes beyond DG and I personally think it has a lot to do with development of players. Or DG and Reese were just so horrible at picking OL and the Cowboys were so amazing at it lol.
We will see this year, like you said. I think giving our draft class last year at least until year 2 to develop isn't too much to ask. If they are heading in the right direction he has done well then, if they head in the wrong direction we will need to move on to GM #3 in our attempt to fix the OL.
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