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Post by bigbluebandit on Sept 29, 2021 13:41:16 GMT -5
better yes- winning games ? No Please stop. You're contending that if the Giants had the best QB in the NFL they would be better but still winless. I just can't. I really think people underestimate the disfunction of our offensive coordinator.
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Post by idkaname on Sept 29, 2021 13:45:57 GMT -5
dude mahomes is 1-2 with a 10x more talented squad. How would he fare better on the giants… Mahomes is 45-12, NFL MVP, 2x SB appearances, SB winner, SB MVP, NFL Offensive Player of the Year, 2x All Pro. He would fare much better than Jones. The Giants would be better. The Giants would be much better than 8-21 with Jones as the QB. The fact that you are arguing otherwise is insane. I’m talking about week 1-3, 2021…again, yes they would be a better team. There’s deeper problems than the players on this team right now
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Post by bigbluebandit on Sept 29, 2021 13:48:18 GMT -5
better yes- winning games ? No Please stop. You're contending that if the Giants had the best QB in the NFL they would be better but still winless. I just can't. How is he 1-2 with his team which is 10 times better?
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Post by idkaname on Sept 29, 2021 13:49:50 GMT -5
Please stop. You're contending that if the Giants had the best QB in the NFL they would be better but still winless. I just can't. How is he 1-2 with his team which is 10 times better? that’s what I just said and he said “the giants wouldn’t be winless” woo hoo we’d be a 7-10 team
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 29, 2021 13:59:52 GMT -5
For someone who’s done with this team. You certainly do a lot of posting about them.
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Post by Fletch842 on Sept 29, 2021 14:22:06 GMT -5
during the off-season/pre-season, I was sure that if DJ and AT played well, we'd be winning games. Both are playing well, unfortunately, just about everyone else is crapping the bed, coaching staff especially.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 29, 2021 14:25:18 GMT -5
It is still very difficult to evaluate Jones’ play this year due to the fact that we: Have no O line No running game Limited playmakers in the passing game due to injury Engram A surprisingly sub-par D Overall poor coaching I tend to agree that he is not the overt problem, but not necessarily the solution, so he needs to play the string out regardless. At this point, inserting many current league QB’s into his position would likely yield similar results due to the multitude of problems this team currently has. All this Which leads to this congective dissonance a lot of us are having about Jones right now Plus He is playing at a high level within our system and has shown improvement You can't ask for more from your starting qb Minus Our system is not allowing him to grow,and really show us what he really can do or take the next step to make it show without a doubt he is the guy. And that is it in a nutshell I'm taking everything else you posted out of this because he isn't allowed at this time to allow those factors to come into play (other than Engram ) And I don't get the "he's not the solution" take. Good QB's are always the solution. Your QB can't compensate for the system, and shouldn't be expected to. I don't think fans realize how difficult it is to find a QB on Jones's level. Look at the rookie QB class, they're inept right now. We had fans that wanted to lose for Trevor Lawrence. He looks 10 years behind Jones. There won't be a QB in the '21 class that ranks higher than Jones.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 29, 2021 14:39:03 GMT -5
All this Which leads to this congective dissonance a lot of us are having about Jones right now Plus He is playing at a high level within our system and has shown improvement You can't ask for more from your starting qb Minus Our system is not allowing him to grow,and really show us what he really can do or take the next step to make it show without a doubt he is the guy. And that is it in a nutshell I'm taking everything else you posted out of this because he isn't allowed at this time to allow those factors to come into play (other than Engram ) And I don't get the "he's not the solution" take. Good QB's are always the solution. Your QB can't compensate for the system, and shouldn't be expected to. I don't think fans realize how difficult it is to find a QB on Jones's level. Look at the rookie QB class, they're inept right now. We had fans that wanted to lose for Trevor Lawrence. He looks 10 years behind Jones. There won't be a QB in the '21 class that ranks higher than Jones. Honestly unless Ratler gets his head out of his ass there is nobody coming out that one could Honestly say would be a guaranteed upgrade over Jones (unless you are one of the #notmyqb crowd from day 1)
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Post by idkaname on Sept 29, 2021 14:49:29 GMT -5
How is he 1-2 with his team which is 10 times better? Well I could easily argue: Goodell and Anti-Chiefs Bias Ref Conspiracy (like pathetic fans do). But I'd would counter with: 1. Quantify the "10x" claim that is being thrown around. 2. He played the Browns, Ravens and Chargers. Not the Broncos, Skins and Falcons. 3. But most importantly: The fact that you and the other desperate poster are clinging to a 3 game sample size when there are 57 and 29 game sample sizes to use says everything anyone needs to know about the thinness of your argument. Again, now you are on record saying the Giants wouldn't have more wins with Mahomes at QB than Jones. Absolutely insane how desperate some fans are these days. downplay the reality of what it is all you want regarding refs. What’s more plausible ? A multI-BILLON $ corporation that lost tons of money due to COVID and overall dwindling viewership to A) let blowouts/boring games develop and continue their downward trend as is or B) call spotty penalties that keep games close/hype low market teams resulting in increased profits. Sticking to choice A seems like a desperate attempt to choose not to believe what is true. Ever heard the term “football is a business”?
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Post by idkaname on Sept 29, 2021 14:55:33 GMT -5
downplay the reality of what it is all you want regarding refs. What’s more plausible ? A multI-BILLON $ corporation that lost tons of money due to COVID and overall dwindling viewership to A) let blowouts/boring games develop and continue their downward trend as is or B) call spotty penalties that keep games close/hype low market teams resulting in increased profits. Sticking to choice A seems like a desperate attempt to choose not to believe what is true. Ever heard the term “football is a business”? Just when I thought it couldn't get more insane... yeah cuz a business owner wanting money is insane. I’m still waiting for just ONE reason this isn’t plausible
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 29, 2021 15:15:28 GMT -5
Daniel Jones is having a good season so far! His numbers are even better then the Baltimore QB Lamar Jackson! Daniel Jones isn't the problem and if he keeps playing good and doesn't get hurt Giants should get A pass Rusher and or an offensive Lineman in the first round of the draft! We're getting the Bears first round draft pick do we have any other first round draft picks?;I don't want to trade back we need big playmakers on the defensive line and offensive line.... DJ and Shep have been the teams best players. Some people just like blaming the QB.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 29, 2021 15:16:49 GMT -5
Danny Dimes Ain't The Problem! He ain't the answer either. Consider this: Jones is playing decently enough but not well enough to win games. That's not the mark of a 6th overall pick "franchise QB." He definitely has to block and tackle a lot better for us to win games.
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Post by idkaname on Sept 29, 2021 15:20:58 GMT -5
He ain't the answer either. Consider this: Jones is playing decently enough but not well enough to win games. That's not the mark of a 6th overall pick "franchise QB." He definitely has to block and tackle a lot better for us to win games. yeah and mahomes would have like 6 sacks and 4 picks already if he was here !
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 29, 2021 15:21:33 GMT -5
at this point in time I would have to think Judge sees exactly what we see in Garretts offensive scheme and if there is no change then he approves of whats being called, I just doubt that Judge wants to put his career in Garretts hands at this point...
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 29, 2021 15:28:38 GMT -5
at this point in time I would have to think Judge sees exactly what we see in Garretts offensive scheme and if there is no change then he approves of whats being called, I just doubt that Judge wants to put his career in Garretts hands at this point... I really want to agree with this ...especially considering he elevated his guy Kitchens to assistant in an heir apparent role My question is now is he going to be allowed to make the switch if Garrett is Fredo's guy.... Nothing about Garrett fits Judge's philosophy or background yet he is here
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 15:30:32 GMT -5
It's a team sport the kid can't do it alone. You really think any Incarnation of Eli Manning would be doing any better on this team that's laughable to say the Least, Eli would be doing no better on this team. Elite franchise QBs do exactly this. In 2011 Eli Manning carried the 32nd rushing offense and 27th ranked defense to 9 wins and the playoffs, and eventual SB championship. So yes, an incarnation of Eli Manning would be/could be doing better. conveniently leave out Nicks was top 5 & Cruz was the best slot guy in the league that year
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Post by ocgiant on Sept 29, 2021 15:31:43 GMT -5
Season started with the thinking Defense would build upon last year and be be solid so far just about the opposite this season
Offensive line was the issue going into this season, with Andrew Thomas being a big concern so far this season just about the opposite for the OL
Question mark on Daniel Jones to prove himself, stats pretty good, looks more poised, has ability to run, better on turnovers and if the playing calling can ever get Goladay down the field DJ should be able to make some longer pass plays. SB still shrugging off the rust of his injury to establish a rather non-existent running game. So while no excuses for DJ I think he is doing as good a job as he can do... I see improvement. Whether he gets to an elite level or not is too soon to tell but if he is surrounded with the right pieces then I believe he can do enough to win games
Right now, he is not the problem but it seems like there are some here who want a new QB for next season while there are such critical positions of need on both sides of the line
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 29, 2021 15:34:52 GMT -5
at this point in time I would have to think Judge sees exactly what we see in Garretts offensive scheme and if there is no change then he approves of whats being called, I just doubt that Judge wants to put his career in Garretts hands at this point... I really want to agree with this ...especially considering he elevated his guy Kitchens to assistant in an heir apparent role My question is now is he going to be allowed to make the switch if Garrett is Fredo's guy.... Nothing about Garrett fits Judge's philosophy or background yet he is here of course I have no way of knowing the facts but the Garrett signing has always smelled to me like front office pressure..
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Post by McCherry on Sept 29, 2021 15:35:45 GMT -5
Elite franchise QBs do exactly this. In 2011 Eli Manning carried the 32nd rushing offense and 27th ranked defense to 9 wins and the playoffs, and eventual SB championship. So yes, an incarnation of Eli Manning would be/could be doing better. conveniently leave out Nicks was top 5 & Cruz was the best slot guy in the league that year Or an 8th overall defense.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 29, 2021 15:43:33 GMT -5
conveniently leave out Nicks was top 5 & Cruz was the best slot guy in the league that year Or an 8th overall defense. Yeah, 8th overall on the East Coast. Our defense in 2011 was horrible. Giving up 25 points a game, and 120 yards on the ground. We got extremely hot at the right time. If I recall, everyone wanted Pee-ew Fewell fired mid season.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 29, 2021 15:50:10 GMT -5
Season started with the thinking Defense would build upon last year and be be solid so far just about the opposite this season Offensive line was the issue going into this season, with Andrew Thomas being a big concern so far this season just about the opposite for the OL Question mark on Daniel Jones to prove himself, stats pretty good, looks more poised, has ability to run, better on turnovers and if the playing calling can ever get Goladay down the field DJ should be able to make some longer pass plays. SB still shrugging off the rust of his injury to establish a rather non-existent running game. So while no excuses for DJ I think he is doing as good a job as he can do... I see improvement. Whether he gets to an elite level or not is too soon to tell but if he is surrounded with the right pieces then I believe he can do enough to win games Right now, he is not the problem but it seems like there are some here who want a new QB for next season. while there are such critical positions of need on both sides of the line If there was a good qh class potentially next draft I could see that argument Unfortunately its starting to look like if they do this it will be for change sake And we are not a qh away like Tampa or the Rams seem to have been so trading bunch of high picks or making out our cap infinitely for Rodgers is a bad idea as well.. People assume that if we blow everything up.from GM to entire coaching staff that they will want their own qb? Vary good chance they see the landscape and decide Jones is the best option..and the way he is playing right now if he does this the entire year why would they want to make a change?
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 29, 2021 16:54:52 GMT -5
conveniently leave out Nicks was top 5 & Cruz was the best slot guy in the league that year Or an 8th overall defense. In his 7th year not 3 games in to his 3rd year.
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Post by imgrate on Sept 29, 2021 17:21:55 GMT -5
Just when I thought it couldn't get more insane... yeah cuz a business owner wanting money is insane. I’m still waiting for just ONE reason this isn’t plausible Because it would be very unprofitable if it was found out that refs rigged games. The better the product, the more buyers/viewers you'll have, and in this case the better the refs perform at their job, the better the product is. ...
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Post by thetruth on Sept 29, 2021 17:31:05 GMT -5
Jones is playing in the top third of the league. He's everything but the problem. other than throwing TDs i think he's got it figured out
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Post by allnygin on Sept 29, 2021 19:07:03 GMT -5
Jones has played really well despite a bunch of bad circumstances. I've been happy with that.. THAT SAID. he's been in a few situations to help seal the deal and he hasn't come through in those situations. He has to learn to do that. Lets also rememebr last week was against a really bad falcons team and we only put up 14 points...
Judging on how this classes QBs look... I think its wise they stick with DJ and let it play out. BC at this point, he's been playing well enough to win.. WIll he ever be more than just a game manager? to be determined.
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Post by idkaname on Sept 29, 2021 19:23:20 GMT -5
yeah cuz a business owner wanting money is insane. I’m still waiting for just ONE reason this isn’t plausible Because it would be very unprofitable if it was found out that refs rigged games. The better the product, the more buyers/viewers you'll have, and in this case the better the refs perform at their job, the better the product is. ... hahaha like the NFL is so great with incompetent refs ? Sure
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Post by Fletch842 on Sept 29, 2021 19:30:37 GMT -5
And I don't get the "he's not the solution" take. Good QB's are always the solution. Your QB can't compensate for the system, and shouldn't be expected to. I don't think fans realize how difficult it is to find a QB on Jones's level. Look at the rookie QB class, they're inept right now. We had fans that wanted to lose for Trevor Lawrence. He looks 10 years behind Jones. There won't be a QB in the '21 class that ranks higher than Jones. Honestly unless Ratler gets his head out of his ass there is nobody coming out that one could Honestly say would be a guaranteed upgrade over Jones (unless you are one of the #notmyqb crowd from day 1) Personally, I think if DJ continues to play as he has, or even improves incrementally a bit during the season, we'll be ok at that spot, and use the picks to upgrade where we really need it. There are a lot of games in front of us to assess this of course. 2 good games do not make a career, but at least its a start, and gives us something to grasp onto!!! (hey, I'm trying my best to stay positive, as tough as this damn team makes it!!!!)
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Post by ocgiant on Sept 29, 2021 19:52:25 GMT -5
Season started with the thinking Defense would build upon last year and be be solid so far just about the opposite this season Offensive line was the issue going into this season, with Andrew Thomas being a big concern so far this season just about the opposite for the OL Question mark on Daniel Jones to prove himself, stats pretty good, looks more poised, has ability to run, better on turnovers and if the playing calling can ever get Goladay down the field DJ should be able to make some longer pass plays. SB still shrugging off the rust of his injury to establish a rather non-existent running game. So while no excuses for DJ I think he is doing as good a job as he can do... I see improvement. Whether he gets to an elite level or not is too soon to tell but if he is surrounded with the right pieces then I believe he can do enough to win games Right now, he is not the problem but it seems like there are some here who want a new QB for next season. while there are such critical positions of need on both sides of the line If there was a good qh class potentially next draft I could see that argument Unfortunately its starting to look like if they do this it will be for change sake And we are not a qh away like Tampa or the Rams seem to have been so trading bunch of high picks or making out our cap infinitely for Rodgers is a bad idea as well.. People assume that if we blow everything up.from GM to entire coaching staff that they will want their own qb? Vary good chance they see the landscape and decide Jones is the best option..and the way he is playing right now if he does this the entire year why would they want to make a change? Change for the sake of change is never a good idea If DJ continues to develop and play consistent football I would think with everything else this team needs that you would leave the QB position alone I am not one for bringing in a high priced QB either that you would overpay for. Besides no one knows if anything happens? Right now, it is a wait and see which more than likely will be the rest of the season
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yoho
Special Teams
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Post by yoho on Sept 29, 2021 20:49:48 GMT -5
Danny Dimes Ain't The Problem! He ain't the answer either. Consider this: Jones is playing decently enough but not well enough to win games. That's not the mark of a 6th overall pick "franchise QB." Yeah, people said that about Phil Simms too.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 29, 2021 21:16:14 GMT -5
He ain't the answer either. Consider this: Jones is playing decently enough but not well enough to win games. That's not the mark of a 6th overall pick "franchise QB." Yeah, people said that about Phil Simms too. Simms would not have even been given his option 5th year had the chain of events that happened back then happened in this era.
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