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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Oct 26, 2021 15:49:54 GMT -5
I respect that. We are comparing him to Parcells right? He was the type of guy who understood risk/reward better than most, really ahead of his time. I don’t get an ounce of that from Judge. Did you know what kind of coach Bill was half way through year 2? I didnt. I hoped he was going to be great. Not saying Judge is a slam dunk at all. I was "higher" on him at the beginning of the season but things, like the major injuries, are out of his hands. While its true good HC finds a way around these things keep in mind he is a newish HC who is trying to prove himself, with a QB trying to prove himself, all while navigate major injures, lazy ass players retiring etc. A tall order. Not making excuses just painting a picture. Jones has a great game vs the Saints and then gets a concussion in the next game. They lose Barkley, Goallady, Gates, Toney, Shep, Lemeuix, Thomas, etc. Even a seasoned top HC would have a problem with this roster roller-coaster. Judge is a lot of talk, that’s my honest opinion. Perhaps it’s my military experiences, but nothing irritates me more in a leader than talking a good game and not playing one. Even his “the fish stinks” nonsense struck me as disingenuous. Again, this is just my opinion. I think my BS meter pings pretty high and most of the time when Judge speaks its chirping. This is just like anything else where I feel negative about the Giants, I’d much rather be wrong. Just sharing opinions.
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Post by jb456 on Oct 26, 2021 15:59:43 GMT -5
At this point in both careers:
Judge: 8-15 .348
Parcells: 7-15-1 .304
Them are the facts. Do with them what you want.
After all, you watch football every Sunday right? You might even play Madden. And some of us may have even put on the pads which raises our fandom in the eyes of one or maybe two.
I see what you are trying to do but do you think this is a disciplined football team? Judge came in here and preached fundamentals and disciple. Stupid penalties, poor tackling, players out of position and some questionable clock management don't give me much hope with Judge. I don't recall Parcell's having the same problems but that was also decades ago. I will end my comment on a positive note and say this team has shown good effort.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 26, 2021 16:02:14 GMT -5
Idk about that. Cap wise I agree, but free agency surely helps. It does and it doesn't. When you draft a Lawrence Taylor you get to retain his services until you don't want to anymore. He didn't have the option of testing free agency and signing with whatever team was going to give him insane money. Technically this is untrue. Taylor actually signed a contract to play for Donald Trump’s NY Generals.
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Post by jb456 on Oct 26, 2021 16:02:37 GMT -5
At this point in both careers:
Judge: 8-15 .348
Parcells: 7-15-1 .304
Them are the facts. Do with them what you want.
After all, you watch football every Sunday right? You might even play Madden. And some of us may have even put on the pads which raises our fandom in the eyes of one or maybe two.
I see what you are trying to do but do you think this is a disciplined football team? Judge came in here and preached fundamentals and disciple. Stupid penalties, poor tackling, players out of position and some questionable clock management don't give me much hope with Judge. Wasn't there 2 ineligible receiver penalties and an illegal motion penalty on the same possession in the last game? I don't recall Parcell's having the same problems but that was also decades ago. I will end my comment on a positive note and say this team has shown good effort.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 26, 2021 16:09:46 GMT -5
Judge holds effective press conferences and seems to have a very organized way of doing things.
His players care and his locker room seems in order.
Where Judge (and his staff) loses me is his in game decisions and adjustments. Maybe as he coaches more games he will improve but last week, keeping his starting QB in a 38-3 game after he was in concussion protocol was about as dumb as it gets.
That said, it’s encouraging that even Parcells had a rough start.
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Post by lt56 on Oct 26, 2021 16:15:25 GMT -5
yeah I'm not even considering calling for the firing Judge
I would just get rid of Gettlemen as the GM but then again it looks like DG had another strong draft with Toney, Ojulari both looking great picks
So I guess we just need to wait and see how the rest of the season plays out
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Post by bluejayc on Oct 26, 2021 16:16:15 GMT -5
The difference is Giants fans at that point had already gone 28 years since their last Championship......no one was running a 2nd year head coach out of town.......my generation (42 years olds) we are spoiled....a SB every decade......my stance is always going to be give a HC four years minimum to get their $hit together........the younger/current generation are full of instant gratification fans......2 years and done.....I'll never understand that. Unless they find Gruden like emails in Judge's account or he mismanages a roster as bad as McAdoo he should be here in at least 2022 and 2023.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 17:07:33 GMT -5
The difference? Someone learned from past mistakes. He also damn near strangled his coordinators when they were ****ing up.
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Post by Nite on Oct 26, 2021 17:55:07 GMT -5
Parcells had hall of famers on his club. Not sure we do. We also had George Young as GM..Today we have...........
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 26, 2021 18:03:12 GMT -5
Judge holds effective press conferences and seems to have a very organized way of doing things. His players care and his locker room seems in order. Where Judge (and his staff) loses me is his in game decisions and adjustments. Maybe as he coaches more games he will improve but last week, keeping his starting QB in a 38-3 game after he was in concussion protocol was about as dumb as it gets. That said, it’s encouraging that even Parcells had a rough start. The only thing that matters to me regarding a HC is if he gets the most out of his players, in the attempt to win football games.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 26, 2021 18:46:21 GMT -5
Ojulari = LT
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 26, 2021 20:24:22 GMT -5
Parcells had hall of famers on his club. Not sure we do. Well Judge probably isn’t a Parcells, but even speaking DGs name in the same breath as George Young is blasphemy. You know, with regards to roster quality. However, and nobody can tell me different, Parcells would take this very roster to the playoff without a doubt in my mind.
This roster with these injuries?
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 26, 2021 20:28:46 GMT -5
I respect that. We are comparing him to Parcells right? He was the type of guy who understood risk/reward better than most, really ahead of his time. I don’t get an ounce of that from Judge. Did you know what kind of coach Bill was half way through year 2? I didnt. I hoped he was going to be great. Not saying Judge is a slam dunk at all. I was "higher" on him at the beginning of the season but things, like the major injuries, are out of his hands. While its true good HC finds a way around these things keep in mind he is a newish HC who is trying to prove himself, with a QB trying to prove himself, all while navigate major injures, lazy ass players retiring etc. A tall order. Not making excuses just painting a picture. Jones has a great game vs the Saints and then gets a concussion in the next game. They lose Barkley, Goallady, Gates, Toney, Shep, Lemeuix, Thomas, etc. Even a seasoned top HC would have a problem with this roster roller-coaster. I wasn't a huge Parcells fan even after we won the Super Bowl.
I always felt he held our team back because of his desire to shorten games.
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Post by allnygin on Oct 26, 2021 20:30:24 GMT -5
as long as the players continue to play for Judge.. I'm all for giving him more time. A coach needs more than two years, the second they quit.. he's gotta be gone, but last week showed they're still hanging around fighting for him and each other.
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coughlinscorner
Special Teams
Gooble Gobble We Accept Her One of Us
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Post by coughlinscorner on Oct 26, 2021 20:35:18 GMT -5
Parcells had hall of famers on his club. Not sure we do. We also had George Young as GM..Today we have........... More importantly Parcells had Taylor, Carson and Banks as LBs and a DC by the name of Bill Belichick.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Oct 26, 2021 21:22:31 GMT -5
Well Judge probably isn’t a Parcells, but even speaking DGs name in the same breath as George Young is blasphemy. You know, with regards to roster quality. However, and nobody can tell me different, Parcells would take this very roster to the playoff without a doubt in my mind.
This roster with these injuries? Parcells took the Jets to the AFCCG. I rest my case your honor.
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 26, 2021 21:49:13 GMT -5
This roster with these injuries? Parcells took the Jets to the AFCCG. I rest my case your honor. Lol. I seem to remember the next season being THE year for the Jets except a couple injuries derailed that team.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 26, 2021 22:11:26 GMT -5
Judge holds effective press conferences and seems to have a very organized way of doing things. His players care and his locker room seems in order. Where Judge (and his staff) loses me is his in game decisions and adjustments. Maybe as he coaches more games he will improve but last week, keeping his starting QB in a 38-3 game after he was in concussion protocol was about as dumb as it gets. That said, it’s encouraging that even Parcells had a rough start. The only thing that matters to me regarding a HC is if he gets the most out of his players, in the attempt to win football games. Not me. I didn’t want to see Jones risk further injury in a 38-3 game. You did?
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 26, 2021 22:17:23 GMT -5
The only thing that matters to me regarding a HC is if he gets the most out of his players, in the attempt to win football games. Not me. I didn’t want to see Jones risk further injury in a 38-3 game. You did? Not sure how this relates to my point.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 26, 2021 22:25:40 GMT -5
as long as the players continue to play for Judge.. I'm all for giving him more time. A coach needs more than two years, the second they quit.. he's gotta be gone, but last week showed they're still hanging around fighting for him and each other. Agree and it takes more then a year in a half for a coach to get the roster full of guys that fit his program,
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Post by Roswell on Oct 26, 2021 22:39:30 GMT -5
Not me. I didn’t want to see Jones risk further injury in a 38-3 game. You did? Not sure how this relates to my point. Well that makes 2 of us. I wasn’t sure what your point had to do with my original point.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 27, 2021 0:04:14 GMT -5
Not sure how this relates to my point. Well that makes 2 of us. I wasn’t sure what your point had to do with my original point. So I guess there really is no point.....Is there?
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Post by GameTime on Oct 27, 2021 4:07:36 GMT -5
Did you know what kind of coach Bill was half way through year 2? I didnt. I hoped he was going to be great. Not saying Judge is a slam dunk at all. I was "higher" on him at the beginning of the season but things, like the major injuries, are out of his hands. While its true good HC finds a way around these things keep in mind he is a newish HC who is trying to prove himself, with a QB trying to prove himself, all while navigate major injures, lazy ass players retiring etc. A tall order. Not making excuses just painting a picture. Jones has a great game vs the Saints and then gets a concussion in the next game. They lose Barkley, Goallady, Gates, Toney, Shep, Lemeuix, Thomas, etc. Even a seasoned top HC would have a problem with this roster roller-coaster. Judge is a lot of talk, that’s my honest opinion. Perhaps it’s my military experiences, but nothing irritates me more in a leader than talking a good game and not playing one. Even his “the fish stinks” nonsense struck me as disingenuous. Again, this is just my opinion. I think my BS meter pings pretty high and most of the time when Judge speaks its chirping. This is just like anything else where I feel negative about the Giants, I’d much rather be wrong. Just sharing opinions. I totally agree he talks way too much. I have been saying that he needs to cut his pressers down to 4 minutes or less. So you dont think he holds himself accountable? I feel he does eve prior to his fish statement.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 27, 2021 4:32:01 GMT -5
Parcells had hall of famers on his club. Not sure we do. We also had George Young as GM..Today we have........... George Young had one winning season in his first 5 seasons with the Giants . He also cut Phil Simms after an 11-5 season and hired Ray Handley as Coach and told BB he would never be the HC of the New York Giants .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 6:30:03 GMT -5
We also had George Young as GM..Today we have........... George Young had one winning season in his first 5 seasons with the Giants . He also cut Phil Simms after an 11-5 season and hired Ray Handley as Coach and told BB he would never be the HC of the New York Giants . Just goes to show you how bad Getty is..
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te88
Special Teams
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Post by te88 on Oct 27, 2021 6:51:31 GMT -5
Don’t get it twisted. Parcells was the beginning of a true rebuild. George Young got full control in 1979 and it was a multi year process to rebuild the organizations football operations.
That’s what we are facing now. A complete rebuild of the organization. Not just the football roster. This rebuild hasn’t even started yet.
Thing is, there is no George Young right now. John Mara doesn’t even recognize he needs to hand things over yet. There is no Pete Rozelle to save the Maras from themselves this time around.
Honestly I see pretty much zero similarities about the two coaches early tenures.
Right now Judge is just a cog in a broken machine. He’s Gettleman and Mara’s last ditch effort - not the beginning of something new. I highly doubt he is part of the long term solution here.
If you want to compare him to anyone compare him to the last coaches of the 70s…
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Post by jb456 on Oct 27, 2021 7:22:14 GMT -5
Don’t get it twisted. Parcells was the beginning of a true rebuild. George Young got full control in 1979 and it was a multi year process to rebuild the organizations football operations. That’s what we are facing now. A complete rebuild of the organization. Not just the football roster. This rebuild hasn’t even started yet.Thing is, there is no George Young right now. John Mara doesn’t even recognize he needs to hand things over yet. There is no Pete Rozelle to save the Maras from themselves this time around. Honestly I see pretty much zero similarities about the two coaches early tenures. Right now Judge is just a cog in a broken machine. He’s Gettleman and Mara’s last ditch effort - not the beginning of something new. I highly doubt he is part of the long term solution here. If you want to compare him to anyone compare him to the last coaches of the 70s… I agree with everything you said with the exception of the bolded sentence. Once Eli left, they started stripping the team down years ago. The team has actually been rebuilt poorly and some of the injuries were foreseeable since they were signing guys with injury history. At this point, Judge and Graham have as much blame as Gettleman. Gettleman has several press conferences where he told the reports that its the job of the GM to go out and get the players that the COACHES want. The current COACHES are responsible for a good portion of the Giants roster woes.
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 27, 2021 7:22:49 GMT -5
We also had George Young as GM..Today we have........... George Young had one winning season in his first 5 seasons with the Giants . He also cut Phil Simms after an 11-5 season and hired Ray Handley as Coach and told BB he would never be the HC of the New York Giants . The Giants best years under George were when they we coached by Bill. The team was a mess under Handley and with Reeves. Giants fans like to toss around the idea of us being stuck in the past, well we certainly were under George Young in the 90’s.
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Post by Nite on Oct 27, 2021 7:29:19 GMT -5
We also had George Young as GM..Today we have........... George Young had one winning season in his first 5 seasons with the Giants . He also cut Phil Simms after an 11-5 season and hired Ray Handley as Coach and told BB he would never be the HC of the New York Giants . Thats one more than Getty. Then we won 2 SBs. He drafted HoFs.. Nice cherry picking!
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 27, 2021 7:50:04 GMT -5
Don’t get it twisted. Parcells was the beginning of a true rebuild. George Young got full control in 1979 and it was a multi year process to rebuild the organizations football operations. That’s what we are facing now. A complete rebuild of the organization. Not just the football roster. This rebuild hasn’t even started yet. Thing is, there is no George Young right now. John Mara doesn’t even recognize he needs to hand things over yet. There is no Pete Rozelle to save the Maras from themselves this time around. Honestly I see pretty much zero similarities about the two coaches early tenures. Right now Judge is just a cog in a broken machine. He’s Gettleman and Mara’s last ditch effort - not the beginning of something new. I highly doubt he is part of the long term solution here. If you want to compare him to anyone compare him to the last coaches of the 70s… We Giants fans have this memory of Pete Roselle stepping in to save the Giants but that may not be what happened. Sure, Pete stepped in when ownership could not agree on Robistelli’s replacement and a new HC, but I don’t believe Pete had any input in the actual selection of George.
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