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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 1, 2021 14:51:26 GMT -5
Les Snead started with the Rams in 2012, McVay started with the Rams in 2017 2012: 7-8-1 2013: 7-9 2014: 6-10 2015: 7-9 2016: 4-12 2017: 11-5 2018: 13-3 2019: 9-7 2020: 10-6
This supports my thinking about coaching staffs having the more profound affect on a team than the front office. Without Parcells, George Young was not the hero he was with Parcells.
In the Rams case, Snead drafted Goff with the #1 pick, then gave him a huge second contract a few years later off a mediocre performance, and then obviously traded him.
Additionally, Snead has been extremely aggressive with free agency using a "win now" philosophy that will cost the team in the near future.
lol, they are ALL IN. Not sure they will have draft choices for a few years.
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Post by repeatchamps on Nov 1, 2021 14:52:41 GMT -5
Calf injuries are tough and they take a long time unless they are minor agree 100% and i do hope Dallas doesn't sniff another trophy for 50 years lol. I think we all feel the same way, still, I wish WE were 6-1 Obviously! I'd just hope we'd be a team when in that situation that is not destined to exit early all the time like Dallas is. The whole premise of this debate was commenting how far away the Giants are from competing with Dallas. Yes that's first and foremost but I'd hope whoever gets the reigns of this organization would be looking at toppling bigger fish and building a consistent winner not this off one year on another year garbage this division is notorious of.
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Post by TCHOF on Nov 1, 2021 14:53:20 GMT -5
Les Snead started with the Rams in 2012, McVay started with the Rams in 2017 2012: 7-8-1 2013: 7-9 2014: 6-10 2015: 7-9 2016: 4-12 2017: 11-5 2018: 13-3 2019: 9-7 2020: 10-6
This supports my thinking about coaching staffs having the more profound affect on a team than the front office. Without Parcells, George Young was not the hero he was with Parcells.
In the Rams case, Snead drafted Goff with the #1 pick, then gave him a huge second contract a few years later off a mediocre performance, and then obviously traded him.
Additionally, Snead has been extremely aggressive with free agency using a "win now" philosophy that will cost the team in the near future.
But if the GM has a hand in hiring the coach (or coaches), it's hard for him to blame the coach for a poor record ....
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 1, 2021 14:55:37 GMT -5
Les Snead started with the Rams in 2012, McVay started with the Rams in 2017 2012: 7-8-1 2013: 7-9 2014: 6-10 2015: 7-9 2016: 4-12 2017: 11-5 2018: 13-3 2019: 9-7 2020: 10-6
This supports my thinking about coaching staffs having the more profound affect on a team than the front office. Without Parcells, George Young was not the hero he was with Parcells.
In the Rams case, Snead drafted Goff with the #1 pick, then gave him a huge second contract a few years later off a mediocre performance, and then obviously traded him.
Additionally, Snead has been extremely aggressive with free agency using a "win now" philosophy that will cost the team in the near future.
Reminds me of a modern day George Allen...
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 1, 2021 15:01:48 GMT -5
If we win 7 games this year, Mara will undoubtedly mistakenly keep DG.
"Progress"
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 1, 2021 15:03:05 GMT -5
Idk about surviving but my sources tell me the Titans are looking to offer a #1 pick for Barkley yet Gettleman won’t answer the phone. No one is offering a 1st round pick for Saquan Brakley. Not even sure we could get anything more than a 4th for SQB at this point.
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FBomb
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Post by FBomb on Nov 1, 2021 15:04:32 GMT -5
If we win 7 games this year, Mara will undoubtedly mistakenly keep DG. "Progress" While I think that would be a mistake, there isn't much difference in the outcome. 7 wins will be enough for Judge and Jones to be safe for one more year, so for continuity, we will promote Abrams.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 1, 2021 15:27:39 GMT -5
I think DG is a decent GM who is surrounded with an inexperienced HC and a front office who doesn't seem able to get out of its own way, not exactly a recipe for success in todays NFL..not to mention Garrett, whose idea was he...
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Post by Roswell on Nov 1, 2021 15:32:01 GMT -5
I don't think DG makes as many personnel decisions as we think he does.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 1, 2021 15:32:13 GMT -5
This supports my thinking about coaching staffs having the more profound affect on a team than the front office. Without Parcells, George Young was not the hero he was with Parcells.
In the Rams case, Snead drafted Goff with the #1 pick, then gave him a huge second contract a few years later off a mediocre performance, and then obviously traded him.
Additionally, Snead has been extremely aggressive with free agency using a "win now" philosophy that will cost the team in the near future.
But if the GM has a hand in hiring the coach (or coaches), it's hard for him to blame the coach for a poor record ....
True, which apparently was the case with Jerry and Tom. I agree that it seems to make the most sense, but Mara isn't alone as other owners have that same structure as well.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 1, 2021 15:35:56 GMT -5
I don't think DG makes as many personnel decisions as we think he does. I think it's always been a collective effort. It makes no sense otherwise. But someone has to have final say and final say goes to....
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Post by McCherry on Nov 1, 2021 15:41:22 GMT -5
If we win 7 games this year, Mara will undoubtedly mistakenly keep DG. "Progress" While I think that would be a mistake, there isn't much difference in the outcome. 7 wins will be enough for Judge and Jones to be safe for one more year, so for continuity, we will promote Abrams. This is the bigger question, what will it take to save Judge? Gettleman is 71, his days of running football teams are numbered regardless of the record.
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drew
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Post by drew on Nov 1, 2021 15:42:33 GMT -5
I don't think DG makes as many personnel decisions as we think he does. Says who? You think someone else is in the front office forging Dave Gettleman's signature with tired retreads from Carolina or overpaying running backs who barely play?
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Post by McCherry on Nov 1, 2021 15:46:17 GMT -5
I don't think DG makes as many personnel decisions as we think he does. Says who? You think someone else is in the front office forging Dave Gettleman's signature with tired retreads from Carolina or overpaying running backs who barely play? He may not make decisions in a vacuum, but he makes the final decisions. He is answering to no one but the owner, and the owner isn't making personnel decisions. But he, Kevin and Chris are all responsible for this roster.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 1, 2021 15:57:51 GMT -5
He's going to be 71 this offseason. There is more to consider here than just this season's results. He may have been planning to leave anyway. Promoting Abrams IS keeping continuity. I think the last thing this team needs is continuity...
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 1, 2021 16:01:18 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone here. A lot of people mention that most NFL teams can turn around relatively quickly (maybe 2 years) from being a bad team to a good team. Do most NFL teams have a complete lack of talent that the Giants had when Gettleman took over as GM? He basically had to start from scratch, we had maybe a handful of starters and no depth. Giants were a mess but you gotta win, to me his only chance is the team gets healthy and they 8-2 0r 7-3 the rest of the way and end up with winning record I root hard for every GM we have had in myeline time. if the losing continues they can't make the mistake they made last time, rip the scab off and start the healing, with Reeses they wasted 2 or 3 valuable years we could have been back already. They had 2013 and 2014 where they were trending down ward and with firing of TC what they learned he was holding it together keeping them winning 5 or 6 games a year it could have been 2 or 3 or 4. the Team was Eli and OBJ from 2014 until it wasn't. No more wasting time like DG but no wins no job. I had no issue with letting TC go because I thought it was his time to move on but keeping Reese was just pathetic..
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 1, 2021 16:04:09 GMT -5
Giants were a mess but you gotta win, to me his only chance is the team gets healthy and they 8-2 0r 7-3 the rest of the way and end up with winning record I root hard for every GM we have had in myeline time. if the losing continues they can't make the mistake they made last time, rip the scab off and start the healing, with Reeses they wasted 2 or 3 valuable years we could have been back already. They had 2013 and 2014 where they were trending down ward and with firing of TC what they learned he was holding it together keeping them winning 5 or 6 games a year it could have been 2 or 3 or 4. the Team was Eli and OBJ from 2014 until it wasn't. No more wasting time like DG but no wins no job. I had no issue with letting TC go because I thought it was his time to move on but keeping Reese was just pathetic.. I agree and I thought 2015 was a year late, it was stupid and there is a lesson to be learned here they lost 3 years and sold there sole to the devil for one lousy playoff appearance, never leave a desperate man in charge.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 1, 2021 16:04:55 GMT -5
He's going to be 71 this offseason. There is more to consider here than just this season's results. He may have been planning to leave anyway. Promoting Abrams IS keeping continuity. I think the last thing this team needs is continuity... LOL haven't has enough agree it aint working.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 1, 2021 16:09:00 GMT -5
Les Snead started with the Rams in 2012, McVay started with the Rams in 2017 2012: 7-8-1 2013: 7-9 2014: 6-10 2015: 7-9 2016: 4-12 2017: 11-5 2018: 13-3 2019: 9-7 2020: 10-6
This supports my thinking about coaching staffs having the more profound affect on a team than the front office. Without Parcells, George Young was not the hero he was with Parcells.
In the Rams case, Snead drafted Goff with the #1 pick, then gave him a huge second contract a few years later off a mediocre performance, and then obviously traded him.
Additionally, Snead has been extremely aggressive with free agency using a "win now" philosophy that will cost the team in the near future.
coaches have a lot of say in who they coach they have a lot to do with everything from the roster to the scheme they plan to win with.
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Post by Jomo on Nov 1, 2021 16:32:19 GMT -5
When JM needs a deflection, DG will be gone.
We've been through it with multiple coordinators and HCs and the previous GM.
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FBomb
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Post by FBomb on Nov 1, 2021 16:47:02 GMT -5
lol.....I don't wonder at all. I KNOW why people insult me. Deflection Speaking of deflection... I insult people for acting like an asshat. That's fine. You can deflect it back on me all you want. We all know the truth, though.
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FBomb
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Post by FBomb on Nov 1, 2021 16:49:06 GMT -5
He's going to be 71 this offseason. There is more to consider here than just this season's results. He may have been planning to leave anyway. Promoting Abrams IS keeping continuity. I think the last thing this team needs is continuity... If we're planning on giving Judge and Jones another season, that is exactly what will happen.
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Post by Roswell on Nov 1, 2021 16:50:33 GMT -5
I don't think DG makes as many personnel decisions as we think he does. Says who? You think someone else is in the front office forging Dave Gettleman's signature with tired retreads from Carolina or overpaying running backs who barely play? Forging? No. I think at times DG does requests. HC and OC and DC tell him which FAs will work in their system and he tries to get them. He definitely brought in guys for Betcher. I'm sure some of that goes on to this day. As far as the draft, it's a collaboration between him, coaches and Mara, the personnel "genius." Why, you think he calls all the shots?
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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 1, 2021 16:51:37 GMT -5
He can do the same exact thing by having a sham of an interview process knowing Abrams already is the heir apparent From what I have been reading is team execs around the league believe the Giants are compiling info on GM candidates outside candidates. still doesn't do it for me I want someone outside helping fix this mess while helping find the next leader of the franchise. I want Fredo to come out of the closet and take responsibility!! May as well make him GM give it the visibility it deserves (I'm hoping that if I post that I want him enough, the reverse will occur, lol)
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FBomb
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Post by FBomb on Nov 1, 2021 16:52:45 GMT -5
So ridiculous. The same people whining about being called a hater are the same ones that pounce on anyone who has anything positive to say. And I'm NOT "optimistic" about most of the goings on. I think DG is a bad GM and I think Judge is all talk at this point. So I don't have a bias in the argument. Both sides do it and whine about the other and the problem just repeats itself over and over. How about both sides move on and let everyone have their own opinions without being insulted for it? And before anyone points the finger at me, I don't insult people for their opinions, I insult people for acting like an asshat. And you wonder why people insult you? Point of order....... These "people" that you claim are insulting me is you. Vinnie just ignores me. I can't really think of any other asshats.
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Post by vinnie on Nov 1, 2021 17:03:29 GMT -5
Being lazy, any idea how many of those 5 losing seasons were under McVay? Les Snead started with the Rams in 2012, McVay started with the Rams in 2017 2012: 7-8-1 2013: 7-9 2014: 6-10 2015: 7-9 2016: 4-12 2017: 11-5 2018: 13-3 2019: 9-7 2020: 10-6Thank you good sir. Kind of like I suspected, so the question is was it the GM and “consistency” that was responsible for their success or coaching? I think the answer is obvious and Joe Judge is no McVay.
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Post by vinnie on Nov 1, 2021 17:12:11 GMT -5
Being lazy, any idea how many of those 5 losing seasons were under McVay? 0 in 2017 he came to Giants stadium and embarrassed them worse then he did this year much worse, That has 0 to do with it he was gonna be the GM for a sixth year with or without McVay in his sixth year he hired Mcvay the only thing for sure is Fischer wasn't gonna be the coach. I think Gettlemen has had enough time if they don't have a winning record by years end he should be gone, if he does win I can see them giving him another year if he wants one. For him to survive they got a lot of digging to do Kind of agree, I think even if DG has a winning record he should still go. Here’s what I’m talking about, say the Giants go 9-8, do you think that suddenly means DG should keep his job but of they went 8-9 he shouldn’t? Especially if most of those wins are against teams with a losing record? He’s had 4 years and nothing to show for it except being the worst team in the league over that same time period. He has done ZERO, he’s a loser. Anyways Blue, not trying to attack you, mostly agreeing with you, just venting. I’m also still waiting for to answer my question about your avatar
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 1, 2021 17:12:16 GMT -5
From what I have been reading is team execs around the league believe the Giants are compiling info on GM candidates outside candidates. still doesn't do it for me I want someone outside helping fix this mess while helping find the next leader of the franchise. I want Fredo to come out of the closet and take responsibility!! May as well make him GM give it the visibility it deserves (I'm hoping that if I post that I want him enough, the reverse will occur, lol) In all my years of fandom the only thing they did they I was wanting was trade down get the picks and pick Toney I almost fell out of my chair lol when it happened. I'm on board vote for Fredo
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FBomb
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Post by FBomb on Nov 1, 2021 17:16:29 GMT -5
That's fine. You can deflect it back on me all you want. We all know the truth, though.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 1, 2021 17:19:21 GMT -5
0 in 2017 he came to Giants stadium and embarrassed them worse then he did this year much worse, That has 0 to do with it he was gonna be the GM for a sixth year with or without McVay in his sixth year he hired Mcvay the only thing for sure is Fischer wasn't gonna be the coach. I think Gettlemen has had enough time if they don't have a winning record by years end he should be gone, if he does win I can see them giving him another year if he wants one. For him to survive they got a lot of digging to do Kind of agree, I think even if DG has a winning record he should still go. Here’s what I’m talking about, say the Giants go 9-8, do you think that suddenly means DG should keep his job but of they went 8-9 he shouldn’t? Especially if most of those wins are against teams with a losing record? He’s had 4 years and nothing to show for it except being the worst team in the league over that same time period. He has done ZERO, he’s a loser. Anyways Blue, not trying to attack you, mostly agreeing with you, just venting. I’m also still waiting for to answer my question about your avatar I answered it. he is a 90 pound blue nose pitbull good with people and other dogs pushes his little friends around with his 20 pound noggin he pokes em with his snout lol. never has shown aggression, I know he would for me my wife or son if someone crossed the line not a good dog a great dog. It is nice when I'm walking him most people go to other side of road I'm old I ain't looking for new friends lol but he is lol.
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