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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Nov 23, 2021 17:10:07 GMT -5
you know Judge didnt want the dallas coaches there, but lets see if we have improvement i really doubt it. I think judge being a philly guy has a bit of arrogance and he is in over his head.
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Nov 23, 2021 17:25:31 GMT -5
Wasn’t Columbo fired last year about this time ? Two ex Cowboys . Judge knows how to work it . I place blame on the ex Cowboys !!!🤠 Are you sure Garrett is an "EX-Cowboy" after his performance here?
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Post by Blue Hulk on Nov 23, 2021 17:27:43 GMT -5
Imagine not firing the GM or HC who hired him, typical Giants scape goating. More heads need to roll. I think they will... in the offseason. Waiting too long to rehire people is an ongoing issue with this team. Get rid of Gettleman now and allow the new GM enough time to set up decent scouting for this draft and start assessing DJ for the future. Matt Corral time???? Ole Miss can't miss, unless it's to Evan Engam.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Nov 23, 2021 17:28:18 GMT -5
Should've been done during the bye week.. They can't even get this correct.. Coming off an upset win where the offense played good? How do you justify that? seriously...
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Nov 23, 2021 17:31:19 GMT -5
Hopefully Kitchens can get more out of our "talent"
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Easy E
Special Teams
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Post by Easy E on Nov 23, 2021 17:41:37 GMT -5
Garrett released statement.
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Nov 23, 2021 17:45:10 GMT -5
The problems in the giants are way bigger than Jason Garret .. this crap has been going on for 6, 7, years now .. Garret is just another scapegoat for this organization.. he absolutely wasn’t the best OC but firing him is just ownership taking the east way out once again .. The Giants are a toxic organization and they give their GMs way too much time .. they are still recovering from Reese and now we have Gettleman’s mess .. DAVE should have been gone last year and instead they gave him another year to screw this team .. we are in cap hell, we lack talent everywhere and we will be starting all over once again .. embrace it , because it will be years before this team is relevant .. Nobody ever comes to the giants and actually gets better .. going to the Giants for both coaches and players has become a career killer .
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 17:51:52 GMT -5
Garrett released statement. Because he wasn't hired by Judge Mara forced him on the team
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cdngfan
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 23, 2021 17:59:25 GMT -5
This is just another scape goat maneuver to appease the fans. Garrett was an issue yea but ,I blame that issue on an the HC's inability to intervene to fix the problems the offense was having . The same is true with the defense. The defense is a 5 yard play waiting to happen on every play used against them. Hell Judge is s career special teams guru. Our STs are mediocre at best If he lacks the ability to fix that. How can he repair the offence and defense? The problems on this team are far more reaching than the OC. This guy is midway through his second year as HC. The first quarter of his first game as HC and his 1st quarter last night were Indiscernible on both sides of the ball. Anyone who thinks this HC has not been the problem? Please explain If he is not why has nothing changed? THE problem? No. He’s not the problem. “A” problem. Yes. He’s contributing to our team losing games. I think the impact of coaching and the probability of tangible improvement is exaggerated. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent. And all bad teams fire their coaches. So either good coaching is really rare or some of those coaches that are fired shouldn’t be. There’s a handful of coaches who make mediocre teams good, and good teams great, and then there’s everyone else. I see most of them as interchangeable. So I don’t get the fascination with the new guy. I think Judge can improve like most inexperienced players do. I don’t share any enthusiasm for a new coach. It’s not Judge support as much as support from stability. 5th HC in 6 years. Either we don’t know how to evaluate coaching talent or we don’t stick with a staff long enough to see them improve. Either way, the excitement of a new coach wore off after the last coaching change.
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Post by TEM on Nov 23, 2021 18:07:50 GMT -5
This is just another scape goat maneuver to appease the fans. Garrett was an issue yea but ,I blame that issue on an the HC's inability to intervene to fix the problems the offense was having . The same is true with the defense. The defense is a 5 yard play waiting to happen on every play used against them. Hell Judge is s career special teams guru. Our STs are mediocre at best If he lacks the ability to fix that. How can he repair the offence and defense? The problems on this team are far more reaching than the OC. This guy is midway through his second year as HC. The first quarter of his first game as HC and his 1st quarter last night were Indiscernible on both sides of the ball. Anyone who thinks this HC has not been the problem? Please explain If he is not why has nothing changed? THE problem? No. He’s not the problem. “A” problem. Yes. He’s contributing to our team losing games. I think the impact of coaching and the probability of tangible improvement is exaggerated. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent. And all bad teams fire their coaches. So either good coaching is really rare or some of those coaches that are fired shouldn’t be. There’s a handful of coaches who make mediocre teams good, and good teams great, and then there’s everyone else. I see most of them as interchangeable. So I don’t get the fascination with the new guy. I think Judge can improve like most inexperienced players do. I don’t share any enthusiasm for a new coach. It’s not Judge support as much as support from stability. 5th HC in 6 years. Either we don’t know how to evaluate coaching talent or we don’t stick with a staff long enough to see them improve. Either way, the excitement of a new coach wore off after the last coaching change. He is the problem. He is clueless on how to fix it. Can he improve with experience. I am not convinced. Either you have the ability to assess with blind honesty or you do not.
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Post by krappdetector on Nov 23, 2021 18:50:17 GMT -5
They spelled Gettleman wrong..This was long over due. I’m also not in the camp that this will fix our offense. You can’t change a whole offense mid season. We will still be running Garrett’s offense. Only difference is, Judges brother from another mother will be calling the games. Such a Giants move. Find an scapegoat, isolate him, and then eradicate him. The offense in general isn't the issue. It's player utilization,play calling,concepts,game plans.. Kitchens and Calloway were already part of the construction of these concepts Garrett was in charge of what got utilized,by who and how I actually think the scripted play sequences come from Kitchens/Calloway because why does it look like a contemporary modern style offense the first drive and then it reverts to the bland ,boring and predictable stuff after ?This, if true, is tremendous food for thought. Anyone else care to weigh in?
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 18:55:32 GMT -5
The offense in general isn't the issue. It's player utilization,play calling,concepts,game plans.. Kitchens and Calloway were already part of the construction of these concepts Garrett was in charge of what got utilized,by who and how I actually think the scripted play sequences come from Kitchens/Calloway because why does it look like a contemporary modern style offense the first drive and then it reverts to the bland ,boring and predictable stuff after ?This, if true, is tremendous food for thought. Anyone else care to weigh in? We are going to definitely find out.... It's just such a huge disparity between the scripted plays and the regular in game offense Did Kitchen actually come up with the scripted plays (remember teams do this to see tendencies and to get teams thinking...hell every team seemingly runs at least one misdirection jet sweep/end around in their first series) Teams realize we only do it once and ignore it ,ignore the ghost and orbit motions because we never do anything out of them )
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Post by jaymas on Nov 23, 2021 19:10:25 GMT -5
Garrett is a good dude, you can tell he loved the Giants. And how he talks about the organization is why a GM and coaches come here, regardless of how bad we've been.
But yeah, as a coach defined by impact... Garrett is one of the worst hires we've had. It's unfortunate.
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Post by thetruth on Nov 23, 2021 19:11:57 GMT -5
This is just another scape goat maneuver to appease the fans. Garrett was an issue yea but ,I blame that issue on an the HC's inability to intervene to fix the problems the offense was having . The same is true with the defense. The defense is a 5 yard play waiting to happen on every play used against them. Hell Judge is s career special teams guru. Our STs are mediocre at best If he lacks the ability to fix that. How can he repair the offence and defense? The problems on this team are far more reaching than the OC. This guy is midway through his second year as HC. The first quarter of his first game as HC and his 1st quarter last night were Indiscernible on both sides of the ball. Anyone who thinks this HC has not been the problem? Please explain If he is not why has nothing changed? THE problem? No. He’s not the problem. “A” problem. Yes. He’s contributing to our team losing games. I think the impact of coaching and the probability of tangible improvement is exaggerated. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent. And all bad teams fire their coaches. So either good coaching is really rare or some of those coaches that are fired shouldn’t be. There’s a handful of coaches who make mediocre teams good, and good teams great, and then there’s everyone else. I see most of them as interchangeable. So I don’t get the fascination with the new guy. I think Judge can improve like most inexperienced players do. I don’t share any enthusiasm for a new coach. It’s not Judge support as much as support from stability. 5th HC in 6 years. Either we don’t know how to evaluate coaching talent or we don’t stick with a staff long enough to see them improve. Either way, the excitement of a new coach wore off after the last coaching change. great post
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Post by Jomo on Nov 23, 2021 19:13:08 GMT -5
Garrett is a good dude, you can tell he loved the Giants. And how he talks about the organization is why a GM and coaches come here, regardless of how bad we've been. But yeah, as a coach defined by impact... Garrett is one of the worst hires we've had. It's unfortunate. Bad managers/CEOs choose "good dudes" for open positions. That decision process is a common rookie mistake by 23 year olds in their first job as a supervisor. "Hey, he likes the same things I do, he's perfect for this/any job." That is why they are bad. As a neighbor, JM is probably stellar. As a CEO he is plain and simply an incompetent fool. He makes mistakes that most line managers would be fired for in the real world.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 19:17:02 GMT -5
Garrett is a good dude, you can tell he loved the Giants. And how he talks about the organization is why a GM and coaches come here, regardless of how bad we've been. But yeah, as a coach defined by impact... Garrett is one of the worst hires we've had. It's unfortunate. Bad managers/CEOs choose "good dudes" for open positions. That decision process is a common rookie mistake by 23 year olds in their first job as a supervisor. "Hey, he likes the same things I do, he's perfect for this/any job." That is why they are bad. As a neighbor, JM is probably stellar. As a CEO he is plain and simply an incompetent fool. He makes mistakes that most line managers would be fired for in the real world. Reminds me of our dispatcher that was just let go
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coughlinscorner
Special Teams
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Post by coughlinscorner on Nov 23, 2021 19:20:31 GMT -5
This is just another scape goat maneuver to appease the fans. Garrett was an issue yea but ,I blame that issue on an the HC's inability to intervene to fix the problems the offense was having . The same is true with the defense. The defense is a 5 yard play waiting to happen on every play used against them. Hell Judge is s career special teams guru. Our STs are mediocre at best If he lacks the ability to fix that. How can he repair the offence and defense? The problems on this team are far more reaching than the OC. This guy is midway through his second year as HC. The first quarter of his first game as HC and his 1st quarter last night were Indiscernible on both sides of the ball. Anyone who thinks this HC has not been the problem? Please explain If he is not why has nothing changed? THE problem? No. He’s not the problem. “A” problem. Yes. He’s contributing to our team losing games. I think the impact of coaching and the probability of tangible improvement is exaggerated. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent. And all bad teams fire their coaches. So either good coaching is really rare or some of those coaches that are fired shouldn’t be. There’s a handful of coaches who make mediocre teams good, and good teams great, and then there’s everyone else. I see most of them as interchangeable. So I don’t get the fascination with the new guy. I think Judge can improve like most inexperienced players do. I don’t share any enthusiasm for a new coach. It’s not Judge support as much as support from stability. 5th HC in 6 years. Either we don’t know how to evaluate coaching talent or we don’t stick with a staff long enough to see them improve. Either way, the excitement of a new coach wore off after the last coaching change. Judge has his fingerprints all over this mess. Everyone praised the last 2 drafts as Judge being involved makes such a difference. What difference makers on on this team period? Fake tough guy who makes the players run laps but holds absolutely NO ONE accountable once the season starts. It is his coaching staff. Even the grassy knoll contingent has to see that even if Mara forced Garrett on him (which I don't believe) he's had every opportunity to address that and hasnt until now where he has to believe for the first time his own ass is on the line. Look maybe he is a good ST coach (though you would never no it be his work with the group) and BB gives him a job again but this guy is not getting a 2nd HC chance from anyone.
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Post by DJones19 on Nov 23, 2021 19:34:09 GMT -5
Judge looked and sounded like his ego was bruised at the presser after the game. As the coach with the superior resume I wonder if Garrett challenged him in the meeting rooms or something. I still wonder if there was something with the fist-fight allegations with Colombo.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 19:41:51 GMT -5
Judge looked and sounded like his ego was bruised at the presser after the game. As the coach with the superior resume I wonder if Garrett challenged him in the meeting rooms or something. I still wonder if there was something with the fist-fight allegations with Colombo. I'm sure he saw what we all saw on offense.... Probably saw the 2 plays that are shown all over the internet as well ....
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cdngfan
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 23, 2021 19:44:39 GMT -5
THE problem? No. He’s not the problem. “A” problem. Yes. He’s contributing to our team losing games. I think the impact of coaching and the probability of tangible improvement is exaggerated. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent. And all bad teams fire their coaches. So either good coaching is really rare or some of those coaches that are fired shouldn’t be. There’s a handful of coaches who make mediocre teams good, and good teams great, and then there’s everyone else. I see most of them as interchangeable. So I don’t get the fascination with the new guy. I think Judge can improve like most inexperienced players do. I don’t share any enthusiasm for a new coach. It’s not Judge support as much as support from stability. 5th HC in 6 years. Either we don’t know how to evaluate coaching talent or we don’t stick with a staff long enough to see them improve. Either way, the excitement of a new coach wore off after the last coaching change. Judge has his fingerprints all over this mess. Everyone praised the last 2 drafts as Judge being involved makes such a difference. What difference makers on on this team period? Fake tough guy who makes the players run laps but holds absolutely NO ONE accountable once the season starts. It is his coaching staff. Even the grassy knoll contingent has to see that even if Mara forced Garrett on him (which I don't believe) he's had every opportunity to address that and hasnt until now where he has to believe for the first time his own ass is on the line. Look maybe he is a good ST coach (though you would never no it be his work with the group) and BB gives him a job again but this guy is not getting a 2nd HC chance from anyone. I think too many fans interpret my posts as Judge support. You don’t have to convince me he’s struggling. He clearly is. You have to convince me his successor is an improvement. And before you say “we can’t get any worse”, that’s what I heard when we hired/fired Shurmer and McAdoo.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 23, 2021 19:48:53 GMT -5
Garrett is a good dude, you can tell he loved the Giants. And how he talks about the organization is why a GM and coaches come here, regardless of how bad we've been. But yeah, as a coach defined by impact... Garrett is one of the worst hires we've had. It's unfortunate. Going back to his backup days here with us I always had a little liking for Garrett, seems like an all around good guy who you want to pull for. I don't get it because going to Princeton I'm sure he's a very intelligent dude and seems like he would be a nerdy/ offensive guru and he did do well in Dallas overall with their O. I think our O line issues had a lot to do with it as well and he was just too inconsistent as an OC here and yeah it's unfortunate. Bottom line you have to get it done one way or another but yeah he just seems like a guy you want to root for.
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coughlinscorner
Special Teams
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Post by coughlinscorner on Nov 23, 2021 20:13:15 GMT -5
Judge has his fingerprints all over this mess. Everyone praised the last 2 drafts as Judge being involved makes such a difference. What difference makers on on this team period? Fake tough guy who makes the players run laps but holds absolutely NO ONE accountable once the season starts. It is his coaching staff. Even the grassy knoll contingent has to see that even if Mara forced Garrett on him (which I don't believe) he's had every opportunity to address that and hasnt until now where he has to believe for the first time his own ass is on the line. Look maybe he is a good ST coach (though you would never no it be his work with the group) and BB gives him a job again but this guy is not getting a 2nd HC chance from anyone. I think too many fans interpret my posts as Judge support. You don’t have to convince me he’s struggling. He clearly is. You have to convince me his successor is an improvement. And before you say “we can’t get any worse”, that’s what I heard when we hired/fired Shurmer and McAdoo. Listen a lot of these problems become less important when you have your franchise QB in place. You have to go back quite a few years since Eli was a franchise QB. Do I think the Chargers coach is a genius? No but Herbert covers up a lot of everybody's faults.
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cdngfan
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 23, 2021 20:30:12 GMT -5
I think too many fans interpret my posts as Judge support. You don’t have to convince me he’s struggling. He clearly is. You have to convince me his successor is an improvement. And before you say “we can’t get any worse”, that’s what I heard when we hired/fired Shurmer and McAdoo. Listen a lot of these problems become less important when you have your franchise QB in place. You have to go back quite a few years since Eli was a franchise QB. Do I think the Chargers coach is a genius? No but Herbert covers up a lot of everybody's faults. Two questions: what percentage of 1st round QBs turn out like Herbert? 50%? Less? And how many 1st round draft picks and years of development are we willing to invest in finding one before we prioritize other needs? When Eli was a franchise QB we had endless debates on the boards about replacing him. He was not a Brees or Rivers or Rothlesberger. He was never universally supported. Not even close. Herbert is a 3 in 10 chance IMO. You’ll have 7 dud QBs in the first round for every 3 Herberts. I’d be drafting OL and edge rushers until we see the guy we absolutely love. I don’t think Gettleman ever loved Jones. He picked the best QB available when he needed a QB, and then sold him as the Messiah. I don’t think Buffalo would have chose Allen first overall. Drafting QBs is a crap shoot. My fear is we decide we need a QB and use an early pick (or trade up) snd 4 more years on the best available option instead of waiting for a Herbert.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Nov 23, 2021 20:31:40 GMT -5
"Hey Danny, can I use you as a reference?"
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 20:55:09 GMT -5
Listen a lot of these problems become less important when you have your franchise QB in place. You have to go back quite a few years since Eli was a franchise QB. Do I think the Chargers coach is a genius? No but Herbert covers up a lot of everybody's faults. Two questions: what percentage of 1st round QBs turn out like Herbert? 50%? Less? And how many 1st round draft picks and years of development are we willing to invest in finding one before we prioritize other needs? When Eli was a franchise QB we had endless debates on the boards about replacing him. He was not a Brees or Rivers or Rothlesberger. He was never universally supported. Not even close. Herbert is a 3 in 10 chance IMO. You’ll have 7 dud QBs in the first round for every Herbert. I’d be drafting OL and edge rushers until we see the guy we absolutely love. I don’t think Gettleman ever loved Jones. He picked the best QB available when he needed a QB, and then sold him as the Messiah. I don’t think Buffalo would have chose Allen first overall. Drafting QBs is a crap shoot. My fear is we decide we need a QB and use an early pick (or trade up) snd 4 more years on the best available option instead of waiting for a Herbert. Jones was a Shurmer hand pick..tbe one thing Gettleman got right it seems even though we didn't get the guy was that he was balls deep in love with Herbert... Then again would he really have been that much better with us He wasn't exactly a can't miss guy even in 2020,he had a lot more warts if he came out in 2019 Now look at how the team was built,a coaching change and this current mess Half the fans would be wanting to run him out of town witb a nearly as bad won loss record or finding excuses why he isn't the guy even though it's apparent he has more natural skill sets than Jones... With that arm and we would have had 26 games of stick routes and poorly designed plays for his skill sets with the idiot we just let go. Herbert lucked out to get in a place that wasn't a total dumpster fire and they got an OC that runs a very similar system he had last year,and they built a wall around him with a good vet center that took calling protections at the line off his plate
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 20:55:32 GMT -5
"Hey Danny, can I use you as a reference?" Aahaaaaaa
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 23, 2021 21:02:27 GMT -5
People are happy about Garrett getting fired but Judge was searching for a scapegoat for himself and Daniel Jones. The we need to flush Gettleman and Judge and work on Jones replacement. Jones has started 37 career games and most of them have been bad I don't wanna here about the OL cause Herbert and Josh Allen had the same problems he had the the OL. Yesterday was the final blow for me watching Jones time to go lame duck QB next year and start the rebuild again.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 23, 2021 21:05:57 GMT -5
He deserves to be fired but make no mistake, this is Judge trying to save his job. Someone who can see through Judge's B.S.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 23, 2021 21:08:50 GMT -5
Yay. Another scapegoat. Anyhow, it had to be done. Nowhere near enough though IMO. That front office needs to be gone completely it should of happened back in 2014 or 2015 at the latest just set this team backer further waiting then buying a 1 and done playoff appearance kicked another couple years onto already crappy situation, time clean house no better time. If were being Honest we should have got rid of Eli in 2017 he's also a big part of why this team has been so bad he was way washed up but Mara insisted in trying to make him a winner by drafting Barkley which I said back then was not the right move.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 23, 2021 21:10:30 GMT -5
I just hope Kitchens and the rest of the offensive staff can salvage something, and help get Daniel Jones on the right track. Offseason would be so much more straightforward without QB being on the list. Even if QB we’re on the list… 1) they should fix the O-line first 2) this coming draft is not deep in QBs. I would seriously bring in a vet to complete with Jones. I mean really compete. Handing him the job next year at this point hoping he evolves is ridiculous. Simms had to fight off Brunner. Bring in Somebody like Tirod Taylor. There isn't a clear franchise QB in this draft I'd fix the OL first before attempting to put a QB in the same situation as Jones.
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