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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 10:09:42 GMT -5
I'm correct that Garrett is a terrible OC. As for if Jones is a competent QB I feel still needs to be seen but so far the optic has also been bad the same with Barkley.. I think he could be, but I think the Judge/Garrett whatever they were trying to accomplish built off nothing that was great about Jones his rookie year. The fact that Pat Shurmur (who is having a time right now in Denver and has a lot of pressure on him to perform) good with QBs, but has proved to be an average offensive coordinator, had Jones looking like a very dynamic passer in 12 starts and our current coaching staff turned that into subtle mechanical changes that look worse, less agression, and a clear thinking over feeling situation (rather than those being in balance) is so disappointing to me as a fan. QB is a tough position, and the kid showed a lot two years ago. Wild to think it hasn't developed outside of a glimpse every now and then. Can't help but think a dozen or so offensive staffs around the league that have demonstrated success with QBs would have gotten a shit ton out of Jones. So the cynic in me thinks it's too late to salvage Jones. But then the optimist in me looks at other situations where guys can make jumps or bounnce back in the right environment. Right now, Carson Wentz is bouncing back in the right environment, just as a recent example. Ideal scenario is to see significant progress for this offense even if the season is lost because at least then, QB isn't a top priority. My concerns with Jones is his lack of understanding where to go with the ball especially the down field throws. Poor Galladay who we have seen has been open deep but Jones just zeros in on another player and misses these big opportunities.. Maybe this was coached out of him by Garret and Judge..
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Post by GameTime on Nov 24, 2021 10:40:24 GMT -5
Big fan of Jones succeeding here. At times he looks really good and other times he looks lost, frantic and ill prepared.
Last Monday's game he is as at the LOS screaming and gesturing like a lunatic. I have never noticed that before.
If you asked me several weeks ago I would have still told you the kid will be a good NFL QB.
Now I think he doesnt have what it takes to be consistent week in and week out. Prob a very good back up to play a game here and there.
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 24, 2021 10:48:06 GMT -5
I think he could be, but I think the Judge/Garrett whatever they were trying to accomplish built off nothing that was great about Jones his rookie year. The fact that Pat Shurmur (who is having a time right now in Denver and has a lot of pressure on him to perform) good with QBs, but has proved to be an average offensive coordinator, had Jones looking like a very dynamic passer in 12 starts and our current coaching staff turned that into subtle mechanical changes that look worse, less agression, and a clear thinking over feeling situation (rather than those being in balance) is so disappointing to me as a fan. QB is a tough position, and the kid showed a lot two years ago. Wild to think it hasn't developed outside of a glimpse every now and then. Can't help but think a dozen or so offensive staffs around the league that have demonstrated success with QBs would have gotten a shit ton out of Jones. So the cynic in me thinks it's too late to salvage Jones. But then the optimist in me looks at other situations where guys can make jumps or bounnce back in the right environment. Right now, Carson Wentz is bouncing back in the right environment, just as a recent example. Ideal scenario is to see significant progress for this offense even if the season is lost because at least then, QB isn't a top priority. My concerns with Jones is his lack of understanding where to go with the ball especially the down field throws. Poor Galladay who we have seen has been open deep but Jones just zeros in on another player and misses these big opportunities.. Maybe this was coached out of him by Garret and Judge.. Do you think Judge/Garrett coached Jones to ignore receivers downfield?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 11:01:49 GMT -5
My concerns with Jones is his lack of understanding where to go with the ball especially the down field throws. Poor Galladay who we have seen has been open deep but Jones just zeros in on another player and misses these big opportunities.. Maybe this was coached out of him by Garret and Judge.. Do you think Judge/Garrett coached Jones to ignore receivers downfield? Impossible to know but something dramatically changed with him once they came on board.. Kind of reminds me of Eli once they brought in Macadoo and how he became a dink and dunker slant chucker to OBJ..
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Post by jb456 on Nov 24, 2021 11:25:58 GMT -5
Garrett was the worst offensive coordinator in the league. The other coaches aren't good but he had to go.... I never wanted the Giants to hire Garrett to begin with so I'm glad he's gone. But Gettleman and Judge both need to be shown the door the day after the regular season ends. It's not like Garrett's bad playcalling has been a secret to anybody. But now that they've gotten rid of Garrett, Gettleman and Judge are going to find themselves on the hot seat going forward if there is no significant improvement because the focus is going to be on both of them now. I fine with everything you said. I'm pretty sure almost none of us have any love for DG (He is 100% gone) and Judge (I can't see a path for his return).
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 24, 2021 11:39:18 GMT -5
Do you think Judge/Garrett coached Jones to ignore receivers downfield? Impossible to know but something dramatically changed with him once they came on board.. Kind of reminds me of Eli once they brought in Macadoo and how he became a dink and dunker slant chucker to OBJ.. Yeah, Jones didn’t have the benefit of having no tape on him. Daniel Jones best season was when all 31 teams had no film on him. Now, they all know he's a walking, talking, mistake waiting to happen. This was the year he was supposed to take that jump. Instead, he tripped over his two feet.
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Post by Dogecoin on Nov 24, 2021 11:47:38 GMT -5
Sharpe and Bayless nailed it ...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 11:55:45 GMT -5
Impossible to know but something dramatically changed with him once they came on board.. Kind of reminds me of Eli once they brought in Macadoo and how he became a dink and dunker slant chucker to OBJ.. Yeah, Jones didn’t have the benefit of having no tape on him. Daniel Jones best season was when all 31 teams had no film on him. Now, they all the teams know he's a walking, talking, mistake waiting to happen. This was the year he was supposed to take that jump. Instead, he tripped over his two feet. Great point! I remember something along the lines that Jones struggled when the defense used zone coverage.. At least he's made up for that by struggling with all coverages!!
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Nov 24, 2021 17:59:35 GMT -5
Sharpe and Bayless nailed it ... great post . very good takes on it . spells out Mara has no clue .
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Post by JoeyCush on Nov 24, 2021 18:04:15 GMT -5
Genuinely puzzled at how many across the league and fans came out in Garrett's defense or criticize the firing.
Very shocked.
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miss86
Special Teams
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Post by miss86 on Nov 24, 2021 21:30:48 GMT -5
I for one am glad Garrett is gone. I wanted him gone last year. When I saw 3 Giant WRs/TEs in the middle of the field bunched together, Monday night, that was the absolute icing on the cake for me. I never liked Garrett as OC. He turned DJ into a head case. I think Garrett has totally screwed DJ up. I'm not saying DJ is AR or TB or ever will be. But when did you ever see Toney, Gollady, EE or Rudolf running in the END ZONE! I MEAN NEVER! Bye Bye JG. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 24, 2021 21:57:38 GMT -5
Sharpe and Bayless nailed it ... that's exactly what I've said in my thread today " Stephen A said it best as well as Shannon" and some thought they were incorrect on their assessment SMDH
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 24, 2021 23:03:14 GMT -5
he needed to go but Jones and the offense will still suck Gettlemen is already cooked don't see how you bring him back or let him anywhere near those draft picks now Judge is going to pull a Jerry Reese and say "it's on me" hell your #1 scapegoat is gone(Garrett) and Gettlemen should be gone also. The only 2 left to get rid of are Judge and Jones, Judge should follow Gettlemen to the dumpster if they fire him or"retire him".
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 24, 2021 23:06:20 GMT -5
Mara's inability to hire an outside voice and Gentlemen's inability to fix the OL is why we are here. The first bullet in the HC's job description. Must be able to utilize the talent provided to him by the front office. We are way better than Washington on paper . The lost both of their pass rushers and their QB They can still play Football and we cannot. You can claim all you want about the owner and the GM. Neither are calling the shots in practice , making the Game plan , or making in game decisions. The Excuses from me are over . The HC is in over his head . Until he realizes he is and begins to look honestly at his own short comings in the position . He will remain this team's problem. When your DC comes out publicly and stats "Brady has seen it all. There is no look I can give him he cannot figure out", that is what Eli asked Graham on how to challenge Brady. And what Eli said during the broadcast. I knew at that point we were going to get our a##s handed to us. The Head Coach allowed Graham to continue implementing his Game plan and approved it??????? So the DC admitted he has no clue on how to stop Tampa's Offense.. He proved is was right. If you are the HC of a football team . How do you put your players in a can't win situation and do nothing to try to change it. This is just one instance of the HC's inability to intervene as he should have. Our HC is completely out of his league on what his abilities are on how to HC a football team. Thinking you know how to do something and doing it are not the same. You can blame the owner and GM all you want . There is zero excuse for what the DC said and what we saw on the field. The HC is a football theorist. Not a head coach. This isn't string theory where you can manipulate the equation with fake 4th,5th .....24th dimensions to make them work. This is reality . If the theory is flawed . The manipulation of the equation will not work. Manager style HC = Football theorist. That is the problem. I agree with you i'm not debating that Joe Judge is a good head coach I think he's awful.
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Post by GameTime on Nov 25, 2021 8:11:15 GMT -5
he needed to go but Jones and the offense will still suck Gettlemen is already cooked don't see how you bring him back or let him anywhere near those draft picks now Judge is going to pull a Jerry Reese and say "it's on me" hell your #1 scapegoat is gone(Garrett) and Gettlemen should be gone also. The only 2 left to get rid of are Judge and Jones, Judge should follow Gettlemen to the dumpster if they fire him or"retire him". there are no scapegoats because they are alll part of the problem. Garrett needed to go. He is first in line. DG JJ and DJ will follow suit
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redeyejedi
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Draftbreakdown.com the poster formerly and still is known as Redeyejedi
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Post by redeyejedi on Nov 25, 2021 9:47:52 GMT -5
He tried to Wade Phillips Joe Judge but it didn't work. Garretts done in the NFL. Probably will go coach at a low level Texas School
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 26, 2021 16:46:46 GMT -5
Sharpe and Bayless nailed it ... great post . very good takes on it . spells out Mara has no clue . Sharpe"He wanted a coach off the Belichik Tree and he went for the fruit that was already on the ground of the tree that was no good" LMAO Joe Judge
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 26, 2021 16:50:17 GMT -5
I for one am glad Garrett is gone. I wanted him gone last year. When I saw 3 Giant WRs/TEs in the middle of the field bunched together, Monday night, that was the absolute icing on the cake for me. I never liked Garrett as OC. He turned DJ into a head case. I think Garrett has totally screwed DJ up. I'm not saying DJ is AR or TB or ever will be. But when did you ever see Toney, Gollady, EE or Rudolf running in the END ZONE! I MEAN NEVER! Bye Bye JG. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$. Jason Garett wasn't a good OC for us but Jones sucks and the OL is awful from LG to RT. We are just eliminating causes of failure think of it like when you go to the doctor when you have an aliment and they try to figure out what's wrong. First will be Garrett used as the scapegoat for Gettlemen's poor construction of the team think all 3 1st rounders Jones, Lawrence, and Baker( Wow 3 misses in the first round) , next will be Gettlemen and finally Judge then Jones.
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miss86
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Post by miss86 on Nov 26, 2021 21:41:12 GMT -5
I for one am glad Garrett is gone. I wanted him gone last year. When I saw 3 Giant WRs/TEs in the middle of the field bunched together, Monday night, that was the absolute icing on the cake for me. I never liked Garrett as OC. He turned DJ into a head case. I think Garrett has totally screwed DJ up. I'm not saying DJ is AR or TB or ever will be. But when did you ever see Toney, Gollady, EE or Rudolf running in the END ZONE! I MEAN NEVER! Bye Bye JG. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$. Jason Garett wasn't a good OC for us but Jones sucks and the OL is awful from LG to RT. We are just eliminating causes of failure think of it like when you go to the doctor when you have an aliment and they try to figure out what's wrong. First will be Garrett used as the scapegoat for Gettlemen's poor construction of the team think all 3 1st rounders Jones, Lawrence, and Baker( Wow 3 misses in the first round) , next will be Gettlemen and finally Judge then Jones. JG was fired by the Dallass cowplops with a great OL and weapons. There was no way in gods green earth that JG was going to help our Giants offense achieve any kind of identity or a winning way. I truly believe JG along with DG has ruined DJ. I think Monday DJ just said to himself F**K it. You all want to kick DJ to the curb. I want the Giants to build some semblance of a NFL team, that means coaching and players to give our QB a chance. The Giants don't resemble a NFL team. JJ is in way over his head. He learning on the fly and it shows. We have some weapons, but they can't stay on the field. DG buys Rudolf. He has good hands but my Grandmother was faster then him. What a waste! This team as constructed is a total CF. From the owner on down.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 26, 2021 22:33:59 GMT -5
Jason Garett wasn't a good OC for us but Jones sucks and the OL is awful from LG to RT. We are just eliminating causes of failure think of it like when you go to the doctor when you have an aliment and they try to figure out what's wrong. First will be Garrett used as the scapegoat for Gettlemen's poor construction of the team think all 3 1st rounders Jones, Lawrence, and Baker( Wow 3 misses in the first round) , next will be Gettlemen and finally Judge then Jones. JG was fired by the Dallass cowplops with a great OL and weapons. There was no way in gods green earth that JG was going to help our Giants offense achieve any kind of identity or a winning way. I truly believe JG along with DG has ruined DJ. I think Monday DJ just said to himself F**K it. You all want to kick DJ to the curb. I want the Giants to build some semblance of a NFL team, that means coaching and players to give our QB a chance. The Giants don't resemble a NFL team. JJ is in way over his head. He learning on the fly and it shows. We have some weapons, but they can't stay on the field. DG buys Rudolf. He has good hands but my Grandmother was faster then him. What a waste! This team as constructed is a total CF. From the owner on down. Well said It starts with Silverspoon and Fredo
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Post by DandyDon on Nov 28, 2021 10:18:53 GMT -5
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 28, 2021 10:27:56 GMT -5
He’s not happy with him, and yet he kept him through a whole offseason. Makes sense.. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Thank God for nepotism, or Kitchens wouldn’t be calling the shots on offense.
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Post by jaymas on Nov 28, 2021 10:44:50 GMT -5
He tried to Wade Phillips Joe Judge but it didn't work. Garretts done in the NFL. Probably will go coach at a low level Texas School Wade Phillips him? I think you mean Jason Garrett tried to Jason Garrett Judge. It was Garrett who took over as interim after Wade was fired and kept the job. He became assistant head coach in 2008 because Jones loved him and viewed him as a future head coach. Quite literally, Wade was looking over his shoulder the whole time as Jones was never shy about how good he thought Garrett was.
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Post by TCHOF on Nov 28, 2021 10:46:23 GMT -5
Was just about to post this. If this is true, then it was a bad decision by Judge to keep him this year. If ownership/FO prevented the firing from happening earlier, then it just shows how broken this franchise is.
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Post by jaymas on Nov 28, 2021 10:47:51 GMT -5
If that is true: I'd be very curious as to what sort of review happened this off-season that led Judge to reverse course on how he was feeling as early as the middle of last year. Or if ownership meddling is actually part of it...woof.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 28, 2021 10:51:07 GMT -5
I think they will... in the offseason. Waiting too long to rehire people is an ongoing issue with this team. Get rid of Gettleman now and allow the new GM enough time to set up decent scouting for this draft and start assessing DJ for the future. Matt Corral time???? Ole Miss can't miss, unless it's to Evan Engam. I agree with this, find a way to get DG out of here in a dignified way and then hire someone with good credentials to finish the season and evaluate the needs of the team for next season....
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 28, 2021 10:55:26 GMT -5
Garrett is the first one on the chopping block, but he won't be the last. But Garrett was sacrificed now to try and give some cover to Judge and Gettleman who need to follow him out the door too. Garrett was the worst offensive coordinator in the league. The other coaches aren't good but he had to go.... hiring Garrett was a good example of the "good ole boy" syndrome, it very seldom works and now we're back to square one in mid season, does that sound like piss poor management by the owners to you?
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 28, 2021 10:58:56 GMT -5
I never wanted the Giants to hire Garrett to begin with so I'm glad he's gone. But Gettleman and Judge both need to be shown the door the day after the regular season ends. It's not like Garrett's bad playcalling has been a secret to anybody. But now that they've gotten rid of Garrett, Gettleman and Judge are going to find themselves on the hot seat going forward if there is no significant improvement because the focus is going to be on both of them now. I fine with everything you said. I'm pretty sure almost none of us have any love for DG (He is 100% gone) and Judge (I can't see a path for his return). when Gettleman goes after this season is over Judge should follow him out the door because he is extremely over rated and has shown nothing since he got here.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 28, 2021 11:05:55 GMT -5
There were reports about 'tension' between Judge and Garrett last year. Ranaan re-iterated it this off season when he said players told him there were issues between the two. This is a Joe Judge problem. Fans will blame ownership, but if you're the head coach you decide who your OC is. I thought Garrett would be fired 100% last year. I don't believe buy for a minute he didn't have that authority.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 28, 2021 11:08:33 GMT -5
The Giants are broken.
If a HC can't fire an OC he doesn't like, wtf does that say about the structure of this franchise.
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