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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 10:21:50 GMT -5
A reporter asked him yesterday, why he didn't call a timeout on that 4th down play when it was apparent there was confusion with the offense. His answer was: "That was the plan". He should have been fired on the spot. If "that was the plan"... Why didn't you call it? He's lost. Or maybe he meant that was the plan to looked confused to throw off the defense? They all looked confused and were standing around and then all of a sudden hurried/ran up to the line quickly to run the play. Either way, we looked unprepared and overmatched. The Bucs defense appeared to know what plays we running as soon as they saw our formation - the difference between well coached teams and us. I think you might be right. But then that still begs the question why weren't the best offensive players on the field in the biggest play of the season?
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Post by myronguyton on Nov 24, 2021 10:22:03 GMT -5
A reporter asked him yesterday, why he didn't call a timeout on that 4th down play when it was apparent there was confusion with the offense. His answer was: "That was the plan". He should have been fired on the spot. If "that was the plan"... Why didn't you call it? He's lost. You misunderstood. The question was why didn't you call timeout, OR "was that the plan?" meaning did you plan to come to the line of scrimmage and snap it at the last second. Judge conceded it didn't work, and everyone knows how terrible it looked, but it was a tempo strategy to not allow the defense to get a look at their formation and get set. So 'that was the plan' was referring to that, not a response to 'why didn't you call timeout'. It was executed terribly, and the playcall itself was awful.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Nov 24, 2021 10:22:26 GMT -5
It was probably those ****ing headphones again How any fan can defend Joe Judge right now is beyond me. Dude has an excuse for everything, will throw anyone under the bus and has 0 feel for the game. The entire season was on the line for that play and they looked confused as all hell. I feel like you could sum up judges coaching career in that play. Unprepared for the situation and doubling down on not using his resources. And I'm not gonna kill Judge if they didn't make it after the timeout. It was 100% the right call to go for it. The execution was shit. Seems to be a theme. Maybe Total Confusion is this team's identity. We've beenn looking for the wrong things. Stupid fans don't understand football
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 10:23:59 GMT -5
Well one thing at least - we are about to find out if it was Garrett who was the one screwing up all the time management at the end of the half and the end of games - or if it was Judge. There's no doubt in my mind it is judge. Judge admitted he was worried about wft timeouts.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Nov 24, 2021 10:24:10 GMT -5
A reporter asked him yesterday, why he didn't call a timeout on that 4th down play when it was apparent there was confusion with the offense. His answer was: "That was the plan". He should have been fired on the spot. If "that was the plan"... Why didn't you call it? He's lost. You misunderstood. The question was why didn't you call timeout, OR "was that the plan?" meaning did you plan to come to the line of scrimmage and snap it at the last second. Judge conceded it didn't work, and everyone knows how terrible it looked, but it was a tempo strategy to not allow the defense to get a look at their formation and get set. So 'that was the plan' was referring to that, not a response to 'why didn't you call timeout'. It was executed terribly, and the playcall itself was awful. Somehow, your explanation doesn't make me feel any better
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Helmet
Special Teams
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Post by Helmet on Nov 24, 2021 10:25:20 GMT -5
The last two head coaches the Giants hired were both offense guys. They fired Shurmur (I think) because he couldn't figure out how to win, didn't make good in-game adjustments, and his defenses underperformed. McAdoo, calling plays with his face buried in the giant Denny's menu, had no clue on the other side of the ball.
They hired Joe Judge, I think, because they wanted someone who understood all 3 phases, including defense, emphasizing fundamentals with his special teams background. But I think they acknowledged that his acumen on the offensive side of the ball was lacking and that's why they brought in Garrett. In today's league, you win by running up the score, not pitching a shutout. We won't know how much Garrett is to blame until we see how they fare without him, but I think we'll quickly learn he's a part of the problem, likely not the root of it.
This firing is consistent with all of the Giants staff decisions since "retiring" Gilbride -- removing one block at a time until the whole thing comes crashing down. Mara has expressed regrets about not being more patient with his last coaches (hard to say if he meant McAdoo, Shurmur, or both.) In retrospect, they probably should have given Shurmur more time, but he had ample opportunities that he squandered, let's face it. It's hard to disagree with the firings dating back to the Coughlin regime. But it's hard to agree with the HIRINGS over this same period. And when you take a risk on a guy like Judge, you have to assume it's going to take him years to put it together, if he can put it together at all, due to his lack of experience as a HC.
This game of Jenga hasn't worked since 2013, when will they ever learn? If this team splits wins/losses the rest of the way out, be prepared for a third year under Joe Judge. I have no idea how they manage the GM situation, a new GM will want to pick his coach. But these were the risks they took, and now they either stick with it if they see improvement, or blow it up again.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 10:26:22 GMT -5
Garrett was only recommended by John Mara. He wouldn't have been the OC if Judge didn't want him. What puzzles me is how Garrett got all these jobs to begin with if he just isn't very good. When he was a player then assistant here he was learning cutting edge stuff of that time, He is close to being a dinosaur now, it seems like the players were not responding they were sloppy and the timing has been terrible. play execution has been a major problem the last few weeks and on and off throughout his tenure here. He was in Dallas a long time as an assistant then the head coach, the NFL has changed a lot throughout his time there and it has been a long time since he actually was a play caller.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 10:29:27 GMT -5
A reporter asked him yesterday, why he didn't call a timeout on that 4th down play when it was apparent there was confusion with the offense. His answer was: "That was the plan". He should have been fired on the spot. If "that was the plan"... Why didn't you call it? He's lost. Or maybe he meant that was the plan to looked confused to throw off the defense? They all looked confused and were standing around and then all of a sudden hurried/ran up to the line quickly to run the play. Either way, we looked unprepared and overmatched. The Bucs defense appeared to know what plays we running as soon as they saw our formation - the difference between well coached teams and us. Just posted it seems on the offensive side they have struggled mightily to execute plays especially on money downs Red zone and 3rd downs it has gotten worse as the season has gone on, Think they were not responding to him anymore for what ever reason.
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Post by fifthavephil on Nov 24, 2021 10:33:00 GMT -5
Garrett was only recommended by John Mara. He wouldn't have been the OC if Judge didn't want him. What puzzles me is how Garrett got all these jobs to begin with if he just isn't very good. Itt not what you know . Is who you know. Judge did not did not search out Garrett. JM, recommendation was to Judge. A unknown special team coach, hired by ( JM ) a Major NFL team Judge felt obligated to hire Garrett. BTW, I an not trying to defend Judge.
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Post by TEM on Nov 24, 2021 10:33:08 GMT -5
How any fan can defend Joe Judge right now is beyond me. Dude has an excuse for everything, will throw anyone under the bus and has 0 feel for the game. The entire season was on the line for that play and they looked confused as all hell. I feel like you could sum up judges coaching career in that play. Unprepared for the situation and doubling down on not using his resources. And I'm not gonna kill Judge if they didn't make it after the timeout. It was 100% the right call to go for it. The execution was shit. Seems to be a theme. Maybe Total Confusion is this team's identity. We've beenn looking for the wrong things. Stupid fans don't understand football Some guys on the site were concerned with Judge's ability to be a HC. I was not one of them. Their reasoning is he has no experience.. If he was at some point a DC at some level . He would have understanding of basic offensive philosophy or he would not know how to counter it. The same would be true in retrospect to defense if he was an OC. He has been neither. This is the output you get when a guy's claim to fame is knowledge on how to tell his players how to stop a punt returner. They were spot on with the aspect of his ability to process the game. He seems to be clueless in that regard.
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 10:33:31 GMT -5
How any fan can defend Joe Judge right now is beyond me. Dude has an excuse for everything, will throw anyone under the bus and has 0 feel for the game. The entire season was on the line for that play and they looked confused as all hell. I feel like you could sum up judges coaching career in that play. Unprepared for the situation and doubling down on not using his resources. And I'm not gonna kill Judge if they didn't make it after the timeout. It was 100% the right call to go for it. The execution was shit. Seems to be a theme. Maybe Total Confusion is this team's identity. We've beenn looking for the wrong things. Stupid fans don't understand football This makes sense now. It was like judges version of putting the offense on the field then putting the punt team on the field trying to confuse the other team. Does just forget he is an NFL coach? This isn't high school. Yeah you can be creative by stupid stunts like this don't work in the nfl.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 10:40:35 GMT -5
The last two head coaches the Giants hired were both offense guys. They fired Shurmur (I think) because he couldn't figure out how to win, didn't make good in-game adjustments, and his defenses underperformed. McAdoo, calling plays with his face buried in the giant Denny's menu, had no clue on the other side of the ball. They hired Joe Judge, I think, because they wanted someone who understood all 3 phases, including defense, emphasizing fundamentals with his special teams background. But I think they acknowledged that his acumen on the offensive side of the ball was lacking and that's why they brought in Garrett. In today's league, you win by running up the score, not pitching a shutout. We won't know how much Garrett is to blame until we see how they fare without him, but I think we'll quickly learn he's a part of the problem, likely not the root of it. This firing is consistent with all of the Giants staff decisions since "retiring" Gilbride -- removing one block at a time until the whole thing comes crashing down. Mara has expressed regrets about not being more patient with his last coaches (hard to say if he meant McAdoo, Shurmur, or both.) In retrospect, they probably should have given Shurmur more time, but he had ample opportunities that he squandered, let's face it. It's hard to disagree with the firings dating back to the Coughlin regime. But it's hard to agree with the HIRINGS over this same period. And when you take a risk on a guy like Judge, you have to assume it's going to take him years to put it together, if he can put it together at all, due to his lack of experience as a HC. This game of Jenga hasn't worked since 2013, when will they ever learn? If this team splits wins/losses the rest of the way out, be prepared for a third year under Joe Judge. I have no idea how they manage the GM situation, a new GM will want to pick his coach. But these were the risks they took, and now they either stick with it if they see improvement, or blow it up again. I think big picture is when the offense fails to put drives together and points on the board in todays league you are done defenses have the field slanted against them with the rules as they are, it is imperative that your offense controls the game, That is the simple reason why they had to try something different. That said DG is on his last year of his contract think he most likely is gone the question is do they really want to go the continuity route again it has gotten them 8 or 9 years of bad football and probably 11 or 12 years of inept team building, the foundation is crumbling while the team is still good it is when it finally falls apart and there is no talent in the pipe line is when you get what we have. gonna be an interesting offseason around here as usual it will be more exciting then the football season it's self sad state of affairs here in Giant land.
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FBomb
Special Teams
Posts: 2,254
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Post by FBomb on Nov 24, 2021 10:40:35 GMT -5
The execution was shit. Seems to be a theme. Maybe Total Confusion is this team's identity. We've beenn looking for the wrong things. Stupid fans don't understand football This makes sense now. It was like judges version of putting the offense on the field then putting the punt team on the field trying to confuse the other team. Does just forget he is an NFL coach? This isn't high school. Yeah you can be creative by stupid stunts like this don't work in the nfl. Exactly. Take the ****ing timeout. Draw up the play and go run it. Instead it was a completely embarassing slap stick comedy routine. The guy is clueless. Clueless
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 24, 2021 10:40:45 GMT -5
This is one of these situations where we have to look at the evidence more then the testimony. Almost all of Judge’s staff is connected to Judge except Garrett. ANd the guy that Garrett brought from Dallas didn’t last the season. John is covering his tracks here. Name one that has preformed better than Garrett? DC? QB coach? WR coach? special teams coach? RB coach? DB coach? Online coach? LB coach? D line coach? There is no f-ing way the ineptitude on display with this team in all aspects of it are every coach on the staff's fault. Garrett was symptom not the problem. It is systemic from the top. Couldn’t agree more. But it’s how you define the “top” that’s the issue. If Garrett was the problem, then we solved it Tues. most of us know we didn’t. It Judge is the problem, it’ll most likely be solved in the off-season. I just see the type of coach Judge is as “average”. He has flaws on display and he has things he does well. Same thing with Shurmer. Is Judge an upgrade? Was Shurmer an upgrade from McAdoo (I think so, Ben lost the room). I have no confidence that Mara will hire an upgrade. So I’m indifferent to keeping or firing Judge. We all had a near identical conversations about Shurmer 2 years ago. Different pros and cons, but the same “not good enough” vibe. I have every confidence we’ll be back here 2 years from now doing this all over again.
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Post by giants8493 on Nov 24, 2021 10:41:09 GMT -5
A reporter asked him yesterday, why he didn't call a timeout on that 4th down play when it was apparent there was confusion with the offense. His answer was: "That was the plan". He should have been fired on the spot. If "that was the plan"... Why didn't you call it? He's lost. Unless he meant "looking" confused was the plan?
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Post by GameTime on Nov 24, 2021 10:42:53 GMT -5
is this really a question?
First off Garrett is not a scapegoat at all. He IS part of the problem.
The HC will get fired AFTER the OC. Its just the order of things on this team. BTW Judge IS also part of the problem.
Jones IS part of the problem too. He's lost...again
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 24, 2021 10:45:10 GMT -5
Garrett was only recommended by John Mara. He wouldn't have been the OC if Judge didn't want him. You got absolutely nothing to back this statement. And if that’s the case, Judge is a pussy to take a job where the owner forces coordinators on you. Not buying it.. Garrett may have been recommended. However, Judge gave him the job. And kept him during an offseason where the offense was in question.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 24, 2021 10:45:35 GMT -5
I was under the impression that all of the game plans were approved by the HC...
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 10:50:07 GMT -5
Garrett was only recommended by John Mara. He wouldn't have been the OC if Judge didn't want him. You got absolutely nothing to back this statement. And if that’s the case, Judge is a pussy to take a job where the owner forces coordinators on you. Not buying it.. Garrett may have been recommended. However, Judge gave him the job. And kept him during an offseason where the offense was in question. I posted earlier in the thread that Mara said it was judges call to make lol. I mean if you don't want to believe that Mara is telling the truth that's fine but at least admit to the quotes we have .
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 24, 2021 10:52:22 GMT -5
is this really a question? First off Garrett is not a scapegoat at all. He IS part of the problem. The HC will get fired AFTER the OC. Its just the order of things on this team. BTW Judge IS also part of the problem. Jones IS part of the problem too. He's lost...again so what you're saying here is that we're screwed again, it kind of looks to me that the "fix" is too big ..
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 10:54:46 GMT -5
This makes sense now. It was like judges version of putting the offense on the field then putting the punt team on the field trying to confuse the other team. Does just forget he is an NFL coach? This isn't high school. Yeah you can be creative by stupid stunts like this don't work in the nfl. Exactly. Take the ****ing timeout. Draw up the play and go run it. Instead it was a completely embarassing slap stick comedy routine. The guy is clueless. Clueless All it did was show he has such little faith in his offense. Call a timeout get your best players on the field and see what happens. If you get beat you get beat, but don't go down without your best players while trying to confuse the defense.
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 24, 2021 10:55:24 GMT -5
You got absolutely nothing to back this statement. And if that’s the case, Judge is a pussy to take a job where the owner forces coordinators on you. Not buying it.. Garrett may have been recommended. However, Judge gave him the job. And kept him during an offseason where the offense was in question. I posted earlier in the thread that Mara said it was judges call to make lol. I mean if you don't want to believe that Mara is telling the truth that's fine but at least admit to the quotes we have . Of course it’s Judges call to make. He’s the head coach, not the groundskeeper.
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Post by ratbastich on Nov 24, 2021 10:57:21 GMT -5
I was under the impression that all of the game plans were approved by the HC... Right? If they aren't then why is he signing his name to this abomination since the ultimate responsibility of what is happening on the field falls on him.
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 24, 2021 10:58:37 GMT -5
Garrett was only recommended by John Mara. He wouldn't have been the OC if Judge didn't want him. We’re all speculating, none of us really know, but it’s really common for poorly run organizations to force staffing decisions on leaders and then hold those leaders accountable for poor performance related to the staffing decisions forced on them. There’s a pattern to Judge’s staffing choices that breaks down when you look at Garrett. Doesn’t absolve Judge from his own faults, but there’s enough smoke about the Mara’s meddling in these choices that it holds up. I wouldnt assume that Garrett was Judge’s choice. Judge is probably done anyway, so it really doesn’t matter. But this is why I don’t care either way. As long as the Maras at least appear to get in the way of making these decisions, we’ll continue to suck no matter who the HC is.
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 11:10:19 GMT -5
I posted earlier in the thread that Mara said it was judges call to make lol. I mean if you don't want to believe that Mara is telling the truth that's fine but at least admit to the quotes we have . Of course it’s Judges call to make. He’s the head coach, not the groundskeeper. The poster said Mara only recommended garrett and it was judges call to make. You said he has nothing to back that up. I posted the quote from Mara, which is pretty much what the poster said. Seems liked you changed your stance pretty quickly
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Nov 24, 2021 11:12:48 GMT -5
Both guys forced on Judge. Garrett and Columbo (Garretts OL coach at Dallas) had to be fired mid way through the last 2 seasons. Both failed miserably for Judge. Kitchens can only look good compared to Garrett. If Kitchens fails then it looks as if the players fault
Too bad we don't have the bye week after this game to put some new things into the offense.
The offense was so awful the crap display of football by the defense is going under the radar.
Both units were so bad it's like shitting your pants plus pissing down your leg. But nobodys talking about the piss cause the shit was so bad.
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 24, 2021 11:15:19 GMT -5
Of course it’s Judges call to make. He’s the head coach, not the groundskeeper. The poster said Mara only recommended garrett and it was judges call to make. You said he has nothing to back that up. I posted the quote from Mara, which is pretty much what the poster said. Seems liked you changed your stance pretty quickly Is English your third language? The article you posted clearly said “it’s Judges call.” So, that means Judge is the one who hired him. Not Mara, like Mike alluded too. He was not “forced” on him. My stance never changed, it has always been it was Judge who made the hire. And not the owner.. John Mara doesn’t hire coordinators, that’s the head coaches job. Edit: I misread Mike’s comments. We both agree it was Judges call. I thought he said it was Mara. That was the other member who started that nonsense.
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 11:20:07 GMT -5
The poster said Mara only recommended garrett and it was judges call to make. You said he has nothing to back that up. I posted the quote from Mara, which is pretty much what the poster said. Seems liked you changed your stance pretty quickly Is English your third language? The article you posted clearly said “it’s Judges call.” So, that means Judge is the one who hired him. Not Mara, like Mike alluded too. He was not “forced” on him. My stance never changed, it has always been it was Judge who made the hire. And not the owner.. John Mara doesn’t hire coordinators, that’s the head coaches job. I'm pretty sure it's your 3rd language. You said he has nothing to back his point right? And his point was Mara only recommended judge and if judge didn't want him he wouldn't of been the OC right?
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Post by McCherry on Nov 24, 2021 11:40:20 GMT -5
Garrett was only recommended by John Mara. He wouldn't have been the OC if Judge didn't want him. You got absolutely nothing to back this statement. And if that’s the case, Judge is a pussy to take a job where the owner forces coordinators on you. Not buying it.. Garrett may have been recommended. However, Judge gave him the job. And kept him during an offseason where the offense was in question. Several beat reporters said this at the time of hiring, and have re-iterated it recently when fans have brought up this fallacy that Mara hired Garrett. We can criticize Judge for hiring him, but when this was discussed here this offseason, you were in favor of bringing Garrett back this season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 11:41:25 GMT -5
Judge did NOT hire Garrett. John Mara did, remember? He more or less assigned Garrett to Judge. He had no say in who the coordinator was going to be. Link? Why do I have to go and waste my time looking for a link? I’m at work right now, on lunch. Can’t you dig into your memory and go back to that day Garrett was hired? I remember it well. Judge didn’t have one bit of say. He just got there for Christs sake. Mara called the shot.
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