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Post by TCHOF on Jan 24, 2022 11:00:25 GMT -5
never gave him a pass, i’m just not stupid enough to think a different play call would result in better production from these awful players. Funny and hypocritical how so many kill a coach switched gears and want people who better evaluate talent. Wow, big 💡 discovery. Welcome to the light 👏 What we're saying, that you're not hearing for some reason, is that Judge played a big role in collecting these awful players that you blame for costing him his job. Plenty of blame to the GM, of course, but the HC got a lot of the players that he wanted and did nothing with them. And how about Mr. "don't tell me what a player can't do, tell me what he can do" not being able to figure out what to do with Markus Golden (12 sacks this year for the Cards while we had an embarrassing pass rush)? How about us dumping BJ Hill only to see him go and have a great season with the Bengals? How about us drafting a RB for special teams in the 6th round instead of Trey Smith? That pick had Judge written all over it. How about keeping 2 FB's on the roster? How about keeping Nate Ebner on the roster? How about all of the time management issues and on-field confusion 30 games into his HC tenure? To absolve the HC from responsibility for this mess is just silly.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:02:06 GMT -5
I disagree. I have a tendency to go after people who act like dicks (yourself included) because someone disagrees with their football opinion. You will never find a post like that from me. I treat people how they treat others. The thread of mine you got locked (Is Jones worth an extension) you were a massive prick all because you disagreed with my football opinion. It's one thing to act like you do on a message board, which is fine by me, but it's weak if you don't own it. I don't remember it, but if you would, post a link to it so we can all be enlighted. I suspect my acting like a "massive prick" had more to do with challenging someone else for actimg like a massive prick. Prove me wrong. I can take it. I'm wrong most of the time.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:02:59 GMT -5
Go look at the roster and see how many players were already here and then calculate the injuries. Lol, you post as if the HC put together this 53 man roster. Look again In the words of Dr. Evil... "You just don't get it, do you Scott." might want to check your history dated back 34 pages. You seem to contradict yourself a lot. Good for you.
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Post by SemperFi on Jan 24, 2022 11:10:35 GMT -5
pretty easy to call plays when you have talent. How long will it take and how many more coaches will the Giants go through to rebuild this mess? The mob will go from praising, demanding an protecting their choice for coach one day and go into kill the coach mode the next. Team needs talent and besides the uniform this roster didn’t qualify as an NFL by seasons end imo. I like the idea of Daboll admittedly but you're correct talent matters the most. Whoever is head coach we need assurances that a modern day offensive scheme will be implemented. Regardless of the talent on the field the entire playbook and the best possible play calling skills from a team that has run successful offenses on the regular must be on the table and at least must be tried to be implemented. The scheme in place must be evident that it is not the cause for ANY offensive struggles.If that's not the case this current cycle of every 2 years and coordinator or head coach fired will repeat itself over and over again. I wish things could be paused until the needed talent is acquired but that's just not possible. The only option they have in the meantime is to bring in the best offensive mind available to coordinate this offense or be the head coach and implement his offensive vision through other coaches. In other words, get someone who can see the forest thru the trees!
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:10:49 GMT -5
Go look at the roster and see how many players were already here and then calculate the injuries. Lol, you post as if the HC put together this 53 man roster. Look again The Giants offense was just not philosophically up to modern NFL standards. Judge agreed to Garrett and absolutely helped design the system (it's said Judge could coach any position, was also a WR coach). And you can't separate the head coach from major philosophies or systems. He was conservative, and the offense under his tutelage was behind. There's no denying that. Modern standards? They can’t even make a routine block on a run or pass while the receivers were out most of the season. Baffling how demands are made for different plays when the roster is incapable of even the routine which, oh btw, is part of modern day football. Overall, i think quiet a few are talking/posting a better generic game than they actually comprehend. Roster doesn’t have the horses to do much of anything.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:13:51 GMT -5
may have got all four wrong but i think it’s really funny when people lose their shait when a practice squad QB and practice squad linemen can’t execute a simple play. Screaming/posting “we need kitchens” “a modern day playbook” and all these epic fail ideas as the emotions have clouded reality. The players stink and nobody has won with them for a decade. The 6th overall pick struggled to execute a simple play also. But that doesn't detract from the fact that Judge, himself, struggle with simple HC'ing as well. That were completely independent of the roster. so get a new coach and bring back the same roster and expect different results.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:15:08 GMT -5
I don't remember it, but if you would, post a link to it so we can all be enlighted. I suspect my acting like a "massive prick" had more to do with challenging someone else for actimg like a massive prick. Prove me wrong. I can take it. I'm wrong most of the time. Click on my profile > threads created by > and look for the only locked one. btw - it was a great topic to discuss. Apparently just to soon or raw for sensitive fellas. Because the same discussion popped up a month later.... Why not just post the link? Make it easier for everyone to see.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:16:05 GMT -5
The 6th overall pick struggled to execute a simple play also. But that doesn't detract from the fact that Judge, himself, struggle with simple HC'ing as well. That were completely independent of the roster. so get a new coach and bring back the same roster and expect different results. Who said that? You're creating straw man arguments.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:17:38 GMT -5
so get a new coach and bring back the same roster and expect different results. you can dish out but when your feet get held to the fire you kind squirm lol. Bit surprised at you. For the record, i’ve defended every coach and will defend the next one. If 2023 is a disaster, or maybe due to a weak schedule as of today is a little better, followed by step back with a tougher schedule, how many will repeat the same venom displayed since Coughlin? Safe bet, the test is coming.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:18:07 GMT -5
Why not just post the link? Make it easier for everyone to see. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Because most people won't bother going through all that. You made a claim in front of everyone, now I'm asking you to prove it in front of everyone.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:18:21 GMT -5
Why not just post the link? Make it easier for everyone to see. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. give a coach an OL and maybe he can call a play which works too.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:28:39 GMT -5
so get a new coach and bring back the same roster and expect different results. Who said that? You're creating straw man arguments. Oh stop lol. Yet to read anybody from the mob post something resembling . . . the roster stinks but i just don’t trust the coach. Like the other coaches, he got a raw deal as have the few competent players on this team. The cast is so weak or badly injured we can’t evaluate anybody. It could work out yet the risk is too high so i opt for change. Four straight coaches all treated the same with a spit of sympathy once out the door. They “were good guys”.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:30:25 GMT -5
Because most people won't bother going through all that. It's literally two clicks. "Teach a man to fish" literally demonstrates that it's not "going through all that." Again...most people aren't going to bother going through all that to see an old argument between you and I. Me clicking on it too look isn't going to matter. You made the claim in public, you should prove it in public.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 24, 2022 11:30:59 GMT -5
The Giants offense was just not philosophically up to modern NFL standards. Judge agreed to Garrett and absolutely helped design the system (it's said Judge could coach any position, was also a WR coach). And you can't separate the head coach from major philosophies or systems. He was conservative, and the offense under his tutelage was behind. There's no denying that. Modern standards? They can’t even make a routine block on a run or pass while the receivers were out most of the season. Baffling how demands are made for different plays when the roster is incapable of even the routine which, oh btw, is part of modern day football. Overall, i think quiet a few are talking/posting a better generic game than they actually comprehend. Roster doesn’t have the horses to do much of anything. You're talking in complete circles. And the roster that doesn't have horses is heavily influenced by the head coach and the systems/philosophies they have in place. Also, what does executing a blocking assignment have to do with running a modern NFL offense? Some of the college concepts that have infiltrated the NFL are because they are literally easier for QBs (and other players) to execute. So not really a great point. Having an archaic offense because you think guys can't block doesn't make a ton of sense, now does it?
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:31:15 GMT -5
give a coach an OL and maybe he can call a play which works too. Zac Taylor and the Bengals are in the AFC Championship game. Well, let’s just put Burrows on the Giants and go to the NFC Championship right?
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Post by jaymas on Jan 24, 2022 11:34:07 GMT -5
Who said that? You're creating straw man arguments. Oh stop lol. Yet to read anybody from the mob post something resembling . . . the roster stinks but i just don’t trust the coach. Like the other coaches, he got a raw deal as have the few competent players on this team. The cast is so weak or badly injured we can’t evaluate anybody. It could work out yet the risk is too high so i opt for change. Four straight coaches all treated the same with a spit of sympathy once out the door. They “were good guys”. You do know that the roster can stink as well as the coach (especially when the coach has significant influence over the roster). Honestly, you're not really making a point anymore, it's been weeks of this. And really, no one expects this roster to look exactly like it does right now, there is a brand new GM and going to be a brand new coach. I don't think anyone has said "if only we just had a different coaching staff, we'd be a playoff team" after this year. The GM changed, the coach is going to change, and the roster is going to change. That's what everyone wants, and it's the only way to be successful. Don't know why you are insistent on it being impossible for all of these things to be true at once.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:34:10 GMT -5
Who said that? You're creating straw man arguments. Oh stop lol. Yet to read anybody from the mob post something resembling . . . the roster stinks but i just don’t trust the coach. Like the other coaches, he got a raw deal as have the few competent players on this team. The cast is so weak or badly injured we can’t evaluate anybody. It could work out yet the risk is too high so i opt for change. Four straight coaches all treated the same with a spit of sympathy once out the door. They “were good guys”. Holy shit. Can we please keep it on the same point you made? You claimed the ones wanting Judge gone thinks the another coach would make this roster better. You've made that accusation several times. There has been NO ONE that is making that claim. Stop moving the goal posts.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:35:24 GMT -5
Modern standards? They can’t even make a routine block on a run or pass while the receivers were out most of the season. Baffling how demands are made for different plays when the roster is incapable of even the routine which, oh btw, is part of modern day football. Overall, i think quiet a few are talking/posting a better generic game than they actually comprehend. Roster doesn’t have the horses to do much of anything. You're talking in complete circles. And the roster that doesn't have horses is heavily influenced by the head coach and the systems/philosophies they have in place. Also, what does executing a blocking assignment have to do with running a modern NFL offense? Some of the college concepts that have infiltrated the NFL are because they are literally easier for QBs (and other players) to execute. So not really a great point. Having an archaic offense because you think guys can't block doesn't make a ton of sense, now does it? So your belief is the HC decided on these offensive linemen. All of which are either backups or practice squad players. Last i checked, the cap in such poor shape the Giants could ‘t even field a 53 man team in week 17. I don’t believe for a moment he or any coach would sign off on this OL. What was on the OL was all the GM could afford as his sadly continued to restructure contract i late December for an eliminated team.
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FBomb
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:37:18 GMT -5
Again...most people aren't going to bother going through all that to see an old argument between you and I. Me clicking on it too look isn't going to matter. You made the claim in public, you should prove it in public. Why are you talking about "most people." I was talking to you. I was talking about you. You asked for proof. I told you how to click twice and find it. It's okay if you don't want to examine it. That's not my problem. Or care. sigh...i don't think I can dumb this down any further. You made the claim publicly for all to see, you should have to prove it the same way. Your lack of at least TRYING to prove your point is very telling.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:38:17 GMT -5
Oh stop lol. Yet to read anybody from the mob post something resembling . . . the roster stinks but i just don’t trust the coach. Like the other coaches, he got a raw deal as have the few competent players on this team. The cast is so weak or badly injured we can’t evaluate anybody. It could work out yet the risk is too high so i opt for change. Four straight coaches all treated the same with a spit of sympathy once out the door. They “were good guys”. Holy shit. Can we please keep it on the same point you made? You claimed the ones wanting Judge gone thinks the another coach would make this roster better. You've made that accusation several times. There has been NO ONE that is making that claim. Stop moving the goal posts. lol, this topic goes beyond one post while your comprehension is often in question. Get some sleep 😴
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:39:34 GMT -5
Well, let’s just put Burrows on the Giants and go to the NFC Championship right? Another strawman argument. Got anything with some bite? i’ll waive a white flag and anoint you GM. You’re awesome!!
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:39:41 GMT -5
Holy shit. Can we please keep it on the same point you made? You claimed the ones wanting Judge gone thinks the another coach would make this roster better. You've made that accusation several times. There has been NO ONE that is making that claim. Stop moving the goal posts. lol, this topic goes beyond one post while your comprehension is often in question. Get some sleep 😴 Lol....you're a ****ing moron and that is me being nice.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 24, 2022 11:42:24 GMT -5
Image of Getty's last day. Stephen root is awesome.
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Post by Roswell on Jan 24, 2022 11:46:19 GMT -5
In the words of Dr. Evil... "You just don't get it, do you Scott." might want to check your history dated back 34 pages. You seem to contradict yourself a lot. Good for you. So 34 pages ago, I said something? Print it. I stand by everything I post. The fact that you went back 34 pages of just my posts should tell you all you need to know about how obsessed you've become.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:46:28 GMT -5
sigh...i don't think I can dumb this down any further. You made the claim publicly for all to see, you should have to prove it the same way. Your lack of at least TRYING to prove your point is very telling. I'll slow it down even more for you. I was talking to you. Not anyone else. The public isn't waiting with bated breath. They don't care about you or this. It's okay if you don't want to admit you come off as a massive prick sometimes. I don't understand why, but whatever. 🍿- taking bets on who can dumb it down the farthest. It’s a neck and neck debate between two of the smartest football minds here.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 24, 2022 11:46:31 GMT -5
You're talking in complete circles. And the roster that doesn't have horses is heavily influenced by the head coach and the systems/philosophies they have in place. Also, what does executing a blocking assignment have to do with running a modern NFL offense? Some of the college concepts that have infiltrated the NFL are because they are literally easier for QBs (and other players) to execute. So not really a great point. Having an archaic offense because you think guys can't block doesn't make a ton of sense, now does it? So your belief is the HC decided on these offensive linemen. All of which are either backups or practice squad players. Last i checked, the cap in such poor shape the Giants could ‘t even field a 53 man team in week 17. I don’t believe for a moment he or any coach would sign off on this OL. What was on the OL was all the GM could afford as his sadly continued to restructure contract i late December for an eliminated team. I think that the coaching staff and front office determined they did not need any starter-level talent acquisition this offseason along the offensive line, which proved to be a huge mistake, even before our injuries and retirements. Peart couldn't beat out Solder, Hernandez was bad all year, and Shane L. was being depended on after a mediocre rookie year. I don't fault Judge or DG for two backup olinemen retiring, that's just crappy luck. But the assessment that we didn't need any starter-level talent or additional backups through draft resources was completely incorrect. That doesn't happen if the coaching staff was insistent on getting offensive lineman. The one we drafted the year before was mainly because Jason Garrett pushed for him. The cap was in poor shape because the team went all-in on this year. If you remember Joe Judge was a huge, huge part of getting Golladay here among our other free-agent acquisitions, both good and bad. I don't know what else to tell you, "you don't believe that any coach would sign off on the OL" is not the same as years of history where the head coach of this team has significant influence in shaping the roster. It's just you thinking it's not possible for...reasons. You're just not correct, and I don't know why you insist on it. Coach is gone, GM is gone, it's all a fresh start. The reality of our situation is that for many years now our coaching staffs and front office have been bad at the same time. That's how you get this bad.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:46:39 GMT -5
sigh...i don't think I can dumb this down any further. You made the claim publicly for all to see, you should have to prove it the same way. Your lack of at least TRYING to prove your point is very telling. I'll slow it down even more for you. I was talking to you. Not anyone else. The public isn't waiting with bated breath. They don't care about you or this. It's okay if you don't want to admit you come off as a massive prick sometimes. I don't understand why, but whatever. I understand that I look that way to YOU sometimes because you and I butt heads a lot. But most of our argumemts are based on the behavior of the other, not about a difference of football opinions. Our friend in this thread is massive prick about football opinions. Big difference So I am putting it to you. I reject your claims that I am a prick to people over football opinions. Prove me wromg
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:48:46 GMT -5
might want to check your history dated back 34 pages. You seem to contradict yourself a lot. Good for you. So 34 pages ago, I said something? Print it. I stand by everything I post. The fact that you went back 34 pages of just my posts should tell you all you need to know about how obsessed you've become. don’t flatter yourself. I clicked on history and the default is 34 pages. I’ve been consistent beyond Coughlin and the same problems continue today.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Jan 24, 2022 11:50:35 GMT -5
I'll slow it down even more for you. I was talking to you. Not anyone else. The public isn't waiting with bated breath. They don't care about you or this. It's okay if you don't want to admit you come off as a massive prick sometimes. I don't understand why, but whatever. 🍿- taking bets on who can dumb it down the farthest. It’s a neck and neck debate between two of the smartest football minds here. As if anyone here takes you seriously.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 24, 2022 11:55:24 GMT -5
So your belief is the HC decided on these offensive linemen. All of which are either backups or practice squad players. Last i checked, the cap in such poor shape the Giants could ‘t even field a 53 man team in week 17. I don’t believe for a moment he or any coach would sign off on this OL. What was on the OL was all the GM could afford as his sadly continued to restructure contract i late December for an eliminated team. I think that the coaching staff and front office determined they did not need any starter-level talent acquisition this offseason along the offensive line, which proved to be a huge mistake, even before our injuries and retirements. Peart couldn't beat out Solder, Hernandez was bad all year, and Shane L. was being depended on after a mediocre rookie year. I don't fault Judge or DG for two backup olinemen retiring, that's just crappy luck. But the assessment that we didn't need any starter-level talent or additional backups through draft resources was completely incorrect. That doesn't happen if the coaching staff was insistent on getting offensive lineman. The one we drafted the year before was mainly because Jason Garrett pushed for him. The cap was in poor shape because the team went all-in on this year. If you remember Joe Judge was a huge, huge part of getting Golladay here among our other free-agent acquisitions, both good and bad. I don't know what else to tell you, "you don't believe that any coach would sign off on the OL" is not the same as years of history where the head coach of this team has significant influence in shaping the roster. It's just you thinking it's not possible for...reasons. You're just not correct, and I don't know why you insist on it. Coach is gone, GM is gone, it's all a fresh start. The reality of our situation is that for many years now our coaching staffs and front office have been bad at the same time. That's how you get this bad. my belief is Dave Gettleman ran his own show. Sure, he speaks to the HC and scouts yet it’s all Gettleman. Truth or not, we’ve read leaks about his communication style, how the phone range during draft day and he didn’t bother answering, how we “didn’t sign OBJ to trade him”, and so many claims which turned out to be lies or delusion resulting a .290 winning percentage. And look how Gettleman left. Not a word. Meanwhile, Jerry Reese and every other coach left with class and thanked many. And one last word on Judge, he thanked or mentioned everybody except one; Gettleman who hired him. The same guy who left in silence.
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