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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 9:44:55 GMT -5
Yes I saw him outplay Mahomes despite Mahomes having Hill and Kelse. You didn’t. None of us have. Stats from that game say differently. Go look.
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Post by Rangers13 on Feb 1, 2022 9:52:27 GMT -5
You didn’t. None of us have. Stats from that game say differently. Go look. Can you please stop pretending Jones is better than Mahomes. Your take is ridiculous
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 9:53:52 GMT -5
The Bengals line is bad. The rest of their weapons are outstanding. Joe Burrow is great. Would he be as great throwing to the guys on our team? Or would he prefer his guys who catch the ball 5 yards away and end up with 40 yard gains? Would you trade Chase for KT? Would you trade Higgens for KG? Would you trade Boyd for whoever our 3rd WR is? That's not the point you made it sound like the giants don't have talent at skill positions they do. Secondly, the oline has always been the excuse for Daniel "oh, no qb could ever succeed behind an oline like that" and now you have a QB in his second year in the superbowl with a trash oline, rodgers did it with all backups on his yada yada. Yes Jones has had a shitty hand, but he's also been pretty shitty himself. I like that he can throw a nice deep ball, I like how he wants to be good and works hard, I like his toughness, but that doesn't make him a good QB and to be honest he simply has not been to this point in his career. The clock is ticking - do you want him resigned at this point? Don't you think that might be a little neglectful to both him and the giants at this point? Spare me the whole eli, or whatever QB sucked his first three seasons and went on to be a great QB for some period of time in the NFL bc for the handful that were able to do there are hundreds more who burnt out the same they did there first three seasons. Those guys are outliers, and maybe Jones is to, but I sure as hell wouldn't bet on it. Regardless, hopefully daboll can resurect his career. I will say I think Judge tried to dumb things down a bit which hurt Jones these past two seasons.. guess we'll find out once and for all this season, wouldn't mind being wrong - but I'd be shocked. Who were all the good healthy productive talent the Giants had at skill positions this season? Engram who half this board said was not worth a 5th round pick at the trade deadline? Kenny (time me with a calendar) Golladay? KT who was seen more on social media than on the field? None of these guys were in the same league as Jamar Chase, Cooper Kuup, or Davante Adams this season. When I watch the Cowboys and see how easy it is to throw to their open wide receivers I'm jealous. When I see guys like Chase turning 3 yard passes in to 40-50 yard gains I'm jealous. We can be 1000% down on DJ but we can not honestly say the guys we had catching passes this season compare to the better skilled teams in the league.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 9:55:19 GMT -5
Stats from that game say differently. Go look. Can you please stop pretending Jones is better than Mahomes. Your take is ridiculous I did not say DJ was a better QB than Mahomes. I said I saw DJ outplay Mahomes in our game last season. That is true.
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Post by Rangers13 on Feb 1, 2022 9:56:38 GMT -5
Can you please stop pretending Jones is better than Mahomes. Your take is ridiculous I did not say DJ was a better QB than Mahomes. I said I saw DJ outplay Mahomes in our game last season. That is true. Try to stay on topic please. Sleep, meds, whatever. Work on it please.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2022 10:00:01 GMT -5
Clearly, Schoen and Daboll are fans of Daniel Jones. Doesn't even seem to be a question in their minds about him being the starter, they're talking as if that's already assumed. They haven't even watched his tape. Also haven't said more than "he's big and a good kid" I dont buy this yet, Mike. However, ill be pumped if you're right.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 1, 2022 10:06:38 GMT -5
Clearly, Schoen and Daboll are fans of Daniel Jones. Doesn't even seem to be a question in their minds about him being the starter, they're talking as if that's already assumed. They haven't even watched his tape. Also haven't said more than "he's big and a good kid" I dont buy this yet, Mike. However, ill be pumped if you're right. I'd be surprised if they didn't watch at least some tape of Daniel before their interviews, and if they still haven't watched any after being hired.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2022 10:13:31 GMT -5
They haven't even watched his tape. Also haven't said more than "he's big and a good kid" I dont buy this yet, Mike. However, ill be pumped if you're right. I'd be surprised if they didn't watch at least some tape of Daniel before their interviews, and if they still haven't watched any after being hired. From what I gather, no doubts theyve seen some games. Our new GM mentioned they weren't going to do a "deep-dive" until the coach was hired I dont think much is known until you do that.
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Post by allnygin on Feb 1, 2022 10:19:42 GMT -5
That's not the point you made it sound like the giants don't have talent at skill positions they do. Secondly, the oline has always been the excuse for Daniel "oh, no qb could ever succeed behind an oline like that" and now you have a QB in his second year in the superbowl with a trash oline, rodgers did it with all backups on his yada yada. Yes Jones has had a shitty hand, but he's also been pretty shitty himself. I like that he can throw a nice deep ball, I like how he wants to be good and works hard, I like his toughness, but that doesn't make him a good QB and to be honest he simply has not been to this point in his career. The clock is ticking - do you want him resigned at this point? Don't you think that might be a little neglectful to both him and the giants at this point? Spare me the whole eli, or whatever QB sucked his first three seasons and went on to be a great QB for some period of time in the NFL bc for the handful that were able to do there are hundreds more who burnt out the same they did there first three seasons. Those guys are outliers, and maybe Jones is to, but I sure as hell wouldn't bet on it. Regardless, hopefully daboll can resurect his career. I will say I think Judge tried to dumb things down a bit which hurt Jones these past two seasons.. guess we'll find out once and for all this season, wouldn't mind being wrong - but I'd be shocked. Who were all the good healthy productive talent the Giants had at skill positions this season? Engram who half this board said was not worth a 5th round pick at the trade deadline? Kenny (time me with a calendar) Golladay? KT who was seen more on social media than on the field? None of these guys were in the same league as Jamar Chase, Cooper Kuup, or Davante Adams this season. When I watch the Cowboys and see how easy it is to throw to their open wide receivers I'm jealous. When I see guys like Chase turning 3 yard passes in to 40-50 yard gains I'm jealous. We can be 1000% down on DJ but we can not honestly say the guys we had catching passes this season compare to the better skilled teams in the league. I’m sorry man - you’re way to much of a Jones homer lol. It’s nothing but excuses and nothing wrong he’s a giant. I support him, but I’m not blinded bc of that or bc hes a good kid. Jones needs to live up to being Gm and playing like an nfl franchise qb and he just haven’t up til now. Clock is ticking…..
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 10:54:16 GMT -5
Who were all the good healthy productive talent the Giants had at skill positions this season? Engram who half this board said was not worth a 5th round pick at the trade deadline? Kenny (time me with a calendar) Golladay? KT who was seen more on social media than on the field? None of these guys were in the same league as Jamar Chase, Cooper Kuup, or Davante Adams this season. When I watch the Cowboys and see how easy it is to throw to their open wide receivers I'm jealous. When I see guys like Chase turning 3 yard passes in to 40-50 yard gains I'm jealous. We can be 1000% down on DJ but we can not honestly say the guys we had catching passes this season compare to the better skilled teams in the league. I’m sorry man - you’re way to much of a Jones homer lol. It’s nothing but excuses and nothing wrong he’s a giant. I support him, but I’m not blinded bc of that or bc hes a good kid. Jones needs to live up to being Gm and playing like an nfl franchise qb and he just haven’t up til now. Clock is ticking….. Lets say that is all true. Lets say everything you say about me personally is fact. Now lets go back to what I mentioned. Lets pretend DJ does not exist. How do the skill guys from our last season compare to the better teams in the league?
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Post by McCherry on Feb 1, 2022 10:58:45 GMT -5
They haven't even watched his tape. Also haven't said more than "he's big and a good kid" I dont buy this yet, Mike. However, ill be pumped if you're right. I'd be surprised if they didn't watch at least some tape of Daniel before their interviews, and if they still haven't watched any after being hired. I'm sure they have. Pretty sure I read Schoen say he was impressed by Jones against the Saints.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 11:03:06 GMT -5
I'd be surprised if they didn't watch at least some tape of Daniel before their interviews, and if they still haven't watched any after being hired. I'm sure they have. Pretty sure I read Schoen say he was impressed by Jones against the Saints. He did.
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Post by DandyDon on Feb 1, 2022 11:09:31 GMT -5
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 1, 2022 11:19:31 GMT -5
I doubt the new GM and HC will want to have their careers tied to a proven loser and get fired in 2 years because D Jones sucked so bad they couldn't fix his problems.... they will not waste a lot of time on Jones. Thats for sure. They have to build a team regardless of the QB I'm thinking their first season as a management team could be considered a mulligan as long as we see some sort of improvement and thats something we haven't seen in years....
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Post by gmen1219 on Feb 1, 2022 11:47:13 GMT -5
There's a lot to like with Jones, and there was enough stuff going wrong with the team in the past 3 years to give him a pass and one more year to earn his shot. Plus, this isn't the year to bring in a new QB. This QB draft class looks pretty weak and we don't want to trade away 1st round picks for a stopgap, especially when we are lacking talent at OL, LB, and pass rush.
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Post by knixknation on Feb 1, 2022 12:14:49 GMT -5
Don’t give up on Danny Dimes. If we haven’t broken him already, he has the ability to be a good NFL QB. let’s hope he’s good but we want him to be Top 10. Look at the guys the Giants passed on. Bears have done the same thing for years. Look at his skill set. He can make all the throws, slants, flags, posts, flats, bombs. He can run as well as almost any QB in the league. Look at the runs he's broken off (turf monster aside). We've given him zero protection and his weapons have often been injured. Add to that he's had more coaches in 4 years than some players have over an entire career. I know I'll get flamed for this, but under the right circumstances I can totally see him being a top 10 QB.
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,194
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Post by Modog on Feb 2, 2022 22:43:21 GMT -5
Sir, your pessimism and lack of faith in Daniel Jones is absolute blasphemy. I want you to watch these highlights of him and then go an apologize to kerryisdaman for ever criticizing and speaking ill of her son. Jones is dog shit that the Giants and few stragglers continue to put Febreze on. You know where he would excel at? As a gadget quarterback, like the Saints use Taysom Hill. His best ability is his legs, I’ve seen him out run NFL cornerbacks in this league. He’s surprisingly fast. Also, the read option with him works to perfection. When you ask him to be an NFL quarterback, read defenses and overcome a bad offensive line. He folds like a bad poker hand. I think his running ability is vastly overated. How often does he make defenders miss? Hes a terrible scrambler in the pocket. Zero agility. Id rather have a QB who can scramble and move well in the pocket then a qb who runs head first into defenders or the ground
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,194
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Post by Modog on Feb 2, 2022 22:47:21 GMT -5
Now, There is a ton about DJ's game I do not like, but there are things I do. If we're being honest I think Judge really handicapped Jones by trying to limit turnovers, and yes, while that worked and the turnovers went down a bit, so did his TDs ... I would rather we go another direction at QB after this season rathre then shelll out a boatload of money for Jones on a second contract, but maybe Darboll can bring out the best in Jones... Well, see. Its ceratinyl his best shot and will be up to DJ next season. kids going to really have to step up . Here's the thing with Jones ... Every QB needs guys to make plays and he has literally no one around him helping him.. I'm not talking about the line , because there have been more than enough occasions where he has plenty of time I'm talking about TE, RB , and WR specifically.. I'm far from a Jones guy , and I think he's an injury prone , mistake ridden QB but there's not a single guy to make a play for him .. these successful QBs all have guys that help them .. you don't even realize how bad our guys are until you watch these teams in the playoffs with guys just making huge runs and big catches for Tds , and guys breaking tackles and getting extra yards.. our starters wouldn't even be on the field on these teams .. If this is gonna be Jones last year I would like to see him with some players that actually do what they are supposed to and not just cash checks .. That's right blame everybody but Jones. You think he doesn't have weapons?? KG, Barkley, Engram. Good QBs makes others look better.
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Post by lexington11 on Feb 3, 2022 1:55:14 GMT -5
I think they keep DJ around until (a) you can’t keep him without a longer term commitment or (b) Schoen and Daboll fall in love with another option at QB. They won’t just change him out like a fan would (where getting rid of him is more important than finding a much better replacement). or c) Jones realizes his potential with a coach and a system that fits him.
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Post by lexington11 on Feb 3, 2022 1:58:37 GMT -5
Here's the thing with Jones ... Every QB needs guys to make plays and he has literally no one around him helping him.. I'm not talking about the line , because there have been more than enough occasions where he has plenty of time I'm talking about TE, RB , and WR specifically.. I'm far from a Jones guy , and I think he's an injury prone , mistake ridden QB but there's not a single guy to make a play for him .. these successful QBs all have guys that help them .. you don't even realize how bad our guys are until you watch these teams in the playoffs with guys just making huge runs and big catches for Tds , and guys breaking tackles and getting extra yards.. our starters wouldn't even be on the field on these teams .. If this is gonna be Jones last year I would like to see him with some players that actually do what they are supposed to and not just cash checks .. That's right blame everybody but Jones. You think he doesn't have weapons?? KG, Barkley, Engram. Good QBs makes others look better. it’s more like everybody blame jones. Has he played great, no, but in light of what he’s been given to work with, or the lack thereof, he’s done pretty well. They are in none of those games the past 2 seasons with out him. The majority of his playmakers were either hurt, or underperformed. He deserves a chance to shut people up, it starts with protecting him.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 3, 2022 8:39:00 GMT -5
Here's the thing with Jones ... Every QB needs guys to make plays and he has literally no one around him helping him.. I'm not talking about the line , because there have been more than enough occasions where he has plenty of time I'm talking about TE, RB , and WR specifically.. I'm far from a Jones guy , and I think he's an injury prone , mistake ridden QB but there's not a single guy to make a play for him .. these successful QBs all have guys that help them .. you don't even realize how bad our guys are until you watch these teams in the playoffs with guys just making huge runs and big catches for Tds , and guys breaking tackles and getting extra yards.. our starters wouldn't even be on the field on these teams .. If this is gonna be Jones last year I would like to see him with some players that actually do what they are supposed to and not just cash checks .. That's right blame everybody but Jones. You think he doesn't have weapons?? KG, Barkley, Engram. Good QBs makes others look better. This made me laugh. This board has had multiple threads about how bad Barkley is and how he should not be kept. I say he is coming off injury and that takes time. This board argued with me that Engram was not even worth a 5th round pick at last seasons trade deadline. I think he has talent but do admit he makes some huge errors. KG? Really? I'm a diehard Giants player supporter and even I despised what I saw from him. He has one of the lowest separation numbers in the NFL and a horrible clutch rate for $20 mill a year. These weapons would be ranked in the lower 20% of the league at best last season.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 3, 2022 9:15:43 GMT -5
Jones Barkley Golladay/ ( all WRs) Engram Toney the OL the staff the coaches.
NONE OF THEM WORKED TOGETHER TO GET THIS OFFENSE RIGHT. Injuries, poor play, lack of talent, poor coaching/management etc. All contributed to the overall failure.
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Post by cdngfan on Feb 3, 2022 9:55:34 GMT -5
I think they keep DJ around until (a) you can’t keep him without a longer term commitment or (b) Schoen and Daboll fall in love with another option at QB. They won’t just change him out like a fan would (where getting rid of him is more important than finding a much better replacement). or c) Jones realizes his potential with a coach and a system that fits him. Of course. Which is why I’m glad Schoen and Daboll are running this and not fans. This requires strategic direction. Any tool can walk in and say “he’s not the guy. Next.” Fans under appreciate work ethic and attitude I think. They just judge on field results. You don’t need a $5-7 million a year GM to do that. You can do that with the guy who takes everyone’s coffee order. Both Daboll and Schoen have said they haven’t spoken to anyone that doesn’t talk up Jones’ work ethic or desire to win. They’ll try and work with that for as long as it makes sense. That’s the culture they want to build here.
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Post by cdngfan on Feb 3, 2022 9:58:51 GMT -5
Jones Barkley Golladay/ ( all WRs) Engram Toney the OL the staff the coaches. NONE OF THEM WORKED TOGETHER TO GET THIS OFFENSE RIGHT. Injuries, poor play, lack of talent, poor coaching/management etc. All contributed to the overall failure. Great point. Those pieces may not be part of the solution going forward, but Schoen and Daboll are smart enough to know you don’t make those decisions watching games on TV. They’ll work with them and make their own call. And I love that. It would have been VERY popular to walk in here and clean house. It’s literally the easiest decision in the world to make. That’s how Mara’s been handling the HC decisions. Every firing has been hugely popular.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 3, 2022 10:03:53 GMT -5
Jones Barkley Golladay/ ( all WRs) Engram Toney the OL the staff the coaches. NONE OF THEM WORKED TOGETHER TO GET THIS OFFENSE RIGHT. Injuries, poor play, lack of talent, poor coaching/management etc. All contributed to the overall failure. Great point. Those pieces may not be part of the solution going forward, but Schoen and Daboll are smart enough to know you don’t make those decisions watching games on TV. They’ll work with them and make their own call. And I love that. It would have been VERY popular to walk in here and clean house. It’s literally the easiest decision in the world to make. That’s how Mara’s been handling the HC decisions. Every firing has been hugely popular. a big problem was injuries allowed for ZERO chemistry. I have no idea how Schoen and Daboll will address that. Guess thats what good coaching and process helps to overcome.
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Post by cdngfan on Feb 3, 2022 10:14:33 GMT -5
Great point. Those pieces may not be part of the solution going forward, but Schoen and Daboll are smart enough to know you don’t make those decisions watching games on TV. They’ll work with them and make their own call. And I love that. It would have been VERY popular to walk in here and clean house. It’s literally the easiest decision in the world to make. That’s how Mara’s been handling the HC decisions. Every firing has been hugely popular. a big problem was injuries allowed for ZERO chemistry. I have no idea how Schoen and Daboll will address that. Guess thats what good coaching and process helps to overcome. Honestly the bigger issues sounds like the franchise was doing and working on a whole variety of priorities, none of them sound like they were aligned. Did Judge want Golladay, or Jones, or Getty, or Mara? To hear that they’re going to sit down with Jones and go through stuff he did at duke and get a sense of what he feels most comfortable with. Nothing in Judge’s DNA or Getty’s or Mara’s sounds like they took that approach. I think it’s really telling that Mara admitted that the commication in the franchise hasn’t been great. He made that comment AFTER hiring Schoen which leads me to believe Schoen probably asked questions in the interview that the Mara’s had trouble answering. Like “did Judge and Garrett install their offense with Jones’ input on what he does well, or did they just try and teach him their system? The language Schoen and Daboll have been using is completely foreign here in NYG land. Daboll saying (paraphrasing) rosters or coaches don’t win, franchises do. Everyone has to be on the same page. Holy crap. Makes alot of sense now.
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Post by Parademon1 on Feb 3, 2022 10:15:47 GMT -5
It's paramount that we use our two #1 picks on OL. You cannot put up pts if you don't have the time to throw a pass downfield & you cannot open holes for your #1 RB. We can get a great edge rusher with #2 pick and a day 1 starter with #3 pick be it a LBer or CB or another OLman. The OL has to be fixed! Of the 2 sides of the ball, the OL is the main problem that has to be fixed in 22'. If this O could have put up 24ppg last yr, we're a playoff team
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 3, 2022 10:17:25 GMT -5
It's paramount that we use our two #1 picks on OL. You cannot put up pts if you don't have the time to throw a pass downfield & you cannot open holes for your #1 RB. We can get a great edge rusher with #2 pick and a day 1 starter with #3 pick be it a LBer or CB or another OLman. The OL has to be fixed! Of the 2 sides of the ball, the OL is the main problem that has to be fixed in 22'. If this O could have put up 24ppg last yr, we're a playoff team Terrible way to run a draft. We can get solid IOL in the second and third rounds.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 3, 2022 10:21:11 GMT -5
Great point. Those pieces may not be part of the solution going forward, but Schoen and Daboll are smart enough to know you don’t make those decisions watching games on TV. They’ll work with them and make their own call. And I love that. It would have been VERY popular to walk in here and clean house. It’s literally the easiest decision in the world to make. That’s how Mara’s been handling the HC decisions. Every firing has been hugely popular. a big problem was injuries allowed for ZERO chemistry. I have no idea how Schoen and Daboll will address that. Guess thats what good coaching and process helps to overcome. I do not have any proof but I have a fear that 2 of our WR are immature at best if not diva like. That is a concern of mine. I will not name them because the things I have seen are not literal proof. Now the WR position in the NFL has a lot of divas. If you are catching 90 balls a year or an all pro being a diva is more tolerated.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,904
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Post by giantsalmon on Feb 3, 2022 10:58:25 GMT -5
a big problem was injuries allowed for ZERO chemistry. I have no idea how Schoen and Daboll will address that. Guess thats what good coaching and process helps to overcome. I do not have any proof but I have a fear that 2 of our WR are immature at best if not diva like. That is a concern of mine. I will not name them because the things I have seen are not literal proof. Now the WR position in the NFL has a lot of divas. If you are catching 90 balls a year or an all pro being a diva is more tolerated. Theres a WR guy that bounced between Buffalos practice squad and roster named Jake Kumerow. Obviously with all of Buffalos WR talent he had limited opportunities. Ironically he is one of the guys Aaron Rodgers was so upset about GB not protecting or discussing with him last offseason. Not a diva and it will be interesting to see if Schoen makes a move for him.
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