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Post by TEM on Aug 23, 2019 19:28:15 GMT -5
I expected you wouldn't. You do have a history of arguing your position without the ability to support it with facts.
But since we live in a age where there's an abundance of information at our fingertips, let me just ask you a simple question. If the alignment is "virtually meaningless", why do teams feel it necessary to specify one over the other?
It’s a shame YAtitle is no longer here. For that matter, even NYCsportsfan. He was crazy but he understood gap responsibility and DL gap techs. All we have here is a bunch of fan boys. Don’t have time to explain fundamental football in today’s game to you. Sorry Come on CG . If you are going to cook the roast . Ya got to serve. I would like to know why the Defensive 3-4 and 4-3 fronts are virtually meaningless. I am not a fan of the 3-4 front. I think it physically wears down the front 3 quicker than a traditional 4-3 D-line does. I think it is also more difficult to obtain to NTs that can play the position at a high level. I think you are wrong about fan boys , i believe most on the site have an understanding of what the 0 to the 9 tech assignments are. Evens are lined over the O-linemen.Odds are slid off to one side or the other of the offensive line men. 0 tech an NT that lines up directly over the Center 1 tech plays the gap between center and the guard The A gap 2 tech plays over the Offensive guard, 3 tech plays the gap between the guard and tackle The B gap 4 tech play over the Offensive tackle 5 tech plays the gap on the outside of the offensive tickle The C gap 6 tech plays over the TE 7 tech plays on the outside shoulder of the TE The D gap in the wide 9 8 tech plays to the inside of the TE 9 tech plays to the outside of the TE
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Post by Blue Hulk on Aug 24, 2019 9:32:22 GMT -5
This guy would have been great in the 3-4. I wish we got him and DJ
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 6:23:43 GMT -5
I absolutely love a 3-4. But not with this personnel. You gotta have the studs.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 25, 2019 7:20:50 GMT -5
I absolutely love a 3-4. But not with this personnel. You gotta have the studs. all Ds need a couple of very good to great playmakers. On that note who knows maybe one or two of these DL/LBs pans out to be those type of players
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Post by Blue Hulk on Aug 25, 2019 13:02:36 GMT -5
I absolutely love a 3-4. But not with this personnel. You gotta have the studs. I don't feel that we are that far off. Lorenzo Carter needs to turn the corner and Xman could be something. All it takes is one dominate pass rusher to make life easier for everyone else on the DL.
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Post by Kase1 on Aug 25, 2019 13:45:23 GMT -5
I absolutely love a 3-4. But not with this personnel. You gotta have the studs. I don't feel that we are that far off. Lorenzo Carter needs to turn the corner and Xman could be something. All it takes is one dominate pass rusher to make life easier for everyone else on the DL. And vice versa, if we have 3 stout DLmen that could neutralize the OL, then our LBs and Safety's could fly around like bats out of hell
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Post by Blue Hulk on Apr 10, 2021 13:36:51 GMT -5
I'm going to bump this thread to point out the validity of the 3-4 defense...
What I noticed and still notice is how hard it is to find a traditional 4-3 DE in this day and age. College plays the spread and those types of players are few and far in between.
It's been much easier to find DT's and LB's... Micah Parsons the best defender in the draft....fits a 3-4 scheme. It's just more versatile in terms of finding personnel out of the current college game.
Everything is hybrid now.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Apr 10, 2021 13:37:47 GMT -5
I don't feel that we are that far off. Lorenzo Carter needs to turn the corner and Xman could be something. All it takes is one dominate pass rusher to make life easier for everyone else on the DL. And vice versa, if we have 3 stout DLmen that could neutralize the OL, then our LBs and Safety's could fly around like bats out of hell It all happened
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Post by GameTime on Apr 10, 2021 13:45:09 GMT -5
I dont care what scheme they are going to run because its working. They arent done getting better (you never are) and they will add pieces.
The D surprised me last season. I wasnt a fan of Graham initially but I cant say anything bad about him or the D at this point.
need to get to the QB more often at critical times and hopefully Jackson is the CB they need him to be.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 10, 2021 13:56:50 GMT -5
I'm going to bump this thread to point out the validity of the 3-4 defense... What I noticed and still notice is how hard it is to find a traditional 4-3 DE in this day and age. College plays the spread and those types of players are few and far in between. It's been much easier to find DT's and LB's... Micah Parsons the best defender in the draft....fits a 3-4 scheme. It's just more versatile in terms of finding personnel out of the current college game. Everything is hybrid now. Get 3 stud IDLs that occupy at worst or at best dominate 5 o linemen You now have 8 guys behind them to do whatever,making it easier to confuse the offense...
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Post by Jomo on Apr 10, 2021 15:33:32 GMT -5
Personnel, personnel, personnel.
Given the same level of scheme appropriate talent I am more of a 3-4 guy.
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Post by giantstepz on Apr 10, 2021 16:05:47 GMT -5
I am under the impression that the G-men have claimed that they will switch schemes and personal packages to eliminate any distinction between the classic 3/4 vs, 4/3 and will read the offense / situation / personnel to determine their defensive scheme on any particular play. This gives them an element of surprise. So, I find the choice of one or the other moot.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 10, 2021 16:22:05 GMT -5
I have been one of the guys beating the drum for a switch to the 3-4 defensive front and now that we are running a 3-4 defense I'm now able to see if i really prefer running a 3-4 scheme. What I expected is that we would now be focused on more athletic edge/lb's and get faster as a team on defense where we would have more versatility in covering TE's and RB's. That was my main reason, I knew a 3-4 defense would force us to draft good LB's...... The thing is, with gettleman liking hog mollies in the trenches, his GM style is better suited towards finding players for a 4-3 defense. I do like the fact that guy like Lorenzo Carter and Xman, got drafted as they would not have been drafted for a 4-3 scheme IMO. Another reason I liked the 3-4 defense is because I felt that with all the spread offenses in college, guys were coming out undersized and better suited for a 3-4, which in my opinion, is best against spread offense which are starting to appear in the NFL because of this pass happy league. So two years in, are you happy with the 3-4 switch or do you miss the 4-3 defense? The "base" these days if you consider "base" being the highest % of snaps is the nickle. New league
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Post by thetruth on Apr 10, 2021 16:23:31 GMT -5
It’s a shame YAtitle is no longer here. For that matter, even NYCsportsfan. He was crazy but he understood gap responsibility and DL gap techs. All we have here is a bunch of fan boys. Don’t have time to explain fundamental football in today’s game to you. Sorry Come on CG . If you are going to cook the roast . Ya got to serve. I would like to know why the Defensive 3-4 and 4-3 fronts are virtually meaningless. I am not a fan of the 3-4 front. I think it physically wears down the front 3 quicker than a traditional 4-3 D-line does. I think it is also more difficult to obtain to NTs that can play the position at a high level. I think you are wrong about fan boys , i believe most on the site have an understanding of what the 0 to the 9 tech assignments are. Evens are lined over the O-linemen.Odds are slid off to one side or the other of the offensive line men. 0 tech an NT that lines up directly over the Center 1 tech plays the gap between center and the guard The A gap 2 tech plays over the Offensive guard, 3 tech plays the gap between the guard and tackle The B gap 4 tech play over the Offensive tackle 5 tech plays the gap on the outside of the offensive tickle The C gap 6 tech plays over the TE 7 tech plays on the outside shoulder of the TE The D gap in the wide 9 8 tech plays to the inside of the TE 9 tech plays to the outside of the TE CGYgiant says you're bang on my friend. Understanding DL tech's is more important than what Base we're in.
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Post by TEM on Apr 10, 2021 16:33:44 GMT -5
Come on CG . If you are going to cook the roast . Ya got to serve. I would like to know why the Defensive 3-4 and 4-3 fronts are virtually meaningless. I am not a fan of the 3-4 front. I think it physically wears down the front 3 quicker than a traditional 4-3 D-line does. I think it is also more difficult to obtain to NTs that can play the position at a high level. I think you are wrong about fan boys , i believe most on the site have an understanding of what the 0 to the 9 tech assignments are. Evens are lined over the O-linemen.Odds are slid off to one side or the other of the offensive line men. 0 tech an NT that lines up directly over the Center 1 tech plays the gap between center and the guard The A gap 2 tech plays over the Offensive guard, 3 tech plays the gap between the guard and tackle The B gap 4 tech play over the Offensive tackle 5 tech plays the gap on the outside of the offensive tickle The C gap 6 tech plays over the TE 7 tech plays on the outside shoulder of the TE The D gap in the wide 9 8 tech plays to the inside of the TE 9 tech plays to the outside of the TE CGYgiant says you're bang on my friend. Understanding DL tech's is more important than what Base we're in. I agree a good 0 tech. Hard to find a good one.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 10, 2021 16:33:55 GMT -5
We dont have the right LBs yet for the 3-4 IMO. Who will be our guy off the edge and can drop back? We need one of those good players.
4-3 we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, JPP, Kiwi...
3-4 we have Lorenzo Carter, Ximines, Carter Coughlin, Cam Brown... I like some of these guys but none are anywhere near the level of play the guys in the 4-3 days were on the edge.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 10, 2021 17:22:31 GMT -5
We dont have the right LBs yet for the 3-4 IMO. Who will be our guy off the edge and can drop back? We need one of those good players. 4-3 we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, JPP, Kiwi... 3-4 we have Lorenzo Carter, Ximines, Carter Coughlin, Cam Brown... I like some of these guys but none are anywhere near the level of play the guys in the 4-3 days were on the edge. Well to be fair, we don't know what Carter, Ximines are yet. I thought Carter was on track for a good season last year before the injury. As far as NT, Danny Shelton was a good acquisition who can occupy 2 blockers to free up Williams. There are also some quality NT's which I expect we'll draft, such as Marvin Wilson. Most teams are running this hybrid 3-4. We switched to a 4-3 back in the 90's when it became trendy. The league goes back and forth.
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Post by TEM on Apr 10, 2021 17:31:01 GMT -5
We dont have the right LBs yet for the 3-4 IMO. Who will be our guy off the edge and can drop back? We need one of those good players. 4-3 we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, JPP, Kiwi... 3-4 we have Lorenzo Carter, Ximines, Carter Coughlin, Cam Brown... I like some of these guys but none are anywhere near the level of play the guys in the 4-3 days were on the edge. Well to be fair, we don't know what Carter, Ximines are yet. I thought Carter was on track for a good season last year before the injury. As far as NT, Danny Shelton was a good acquisition who can occupy 2 blockers to free up Williams. There are also some quality NT's which I expect we'll draft, such as Marvin Wilson. Most teams are running this hybrid 3-4. We switched to a 4-3 back in the 90's when it became trendy. The league goes back and forth. Right now .We Are more set for a base 3-4with our players.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 10, 2021 17:50:06 GMT -5
CGYgiant says you're bang on my friend. Understanding DL tech's is more important than what Base we're in. I agree a good 0 tech. Hard to find a good one. i think Shelton is plenty good for what we need him to do!
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Post by GameTime on Apr 10, 2021 19:15:15 GMT -5
Graham says he'll line up a 1-10 if thats what it takes...
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Post by moecoastie on Apr 10, 2021 19:29:37 GMT -5
Graham says he'll line up a 1-10 if thats what it takes... Graham will morph his defense to whatever it needs to be. Its what I liked about how NE did things.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Apr 11, 2021 8:59:16 GMT -5
I think this matters less now than it ever has. Even when lined up in a 3-4 set, we don't really play a traditional 3-4 style with a NT two-gapping things.
Much of the time we are in a nickle package of some kind anyway, whether with 2, 3 or 4 down linemen.
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rbe40
Special Teams
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Post by rbe40 on Apr 11, 2021 10:02:24 GMT -5
3-4 by a wide margin!
Not even close.
A 4-3 is soooooo predictable - The opposing offense knows exactly which 4 rushers are coming on every down. Even if you have 4 great DL, if the opposing O knows exactly what is coming, they have the edge.
Today's NFL game on defense is about unpredictability, confusion, amoeba fronts, scheme. It is so much tougher planning against a 3-4 D because because on every snap you don't know who is dropping and who is rushing.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 11, 2021 10:15:40 GMT -5
We dont have the right LBs yet for the 3-4 IMO. Who will be our guy off the edge and can drop back? We need one of those good players. 4-3 we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, JPP, Kiwi... 3-4 we have Lorenzo Carter, Ximines, Carter Coughlin, Cam Brown... I like some of these guys but none are anywhere near the level of play the guys in the 4-3 days were on the edge. EDGE in this scheme is a luxury, not a necessity. They don't "need" what you think they need. OLBs in this scheme aren't the source of pass rush. Their job is to contain. Btw, Leonard Williams is the most important and premiere pass-rusher in this scheme. Richard Seymour Old-School 3-4 DE role. Maybe I just need some Gettlemagic. You sure told me. No need for pass rushers off the edge. I'm getting used to these 4-5-6 win seasons. It's been fun.
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rbe40
Special Teams
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Post by rbe40 on Apr 11, 2021 10:32:56 GMT -5
EDGE in this scheme is a luxury, not a necessity. They don't "need" what you think they need. OLBs in this scheme aren't the source of pass rush. Their job is to contain. I told you this years ago, you didn't listen to me then, and you clearly still don't understand now. You clearly have 0 conceptual understanding of the Giants 3-4 Amoeba Blitz D. Btw, Leonard Williams is the most important and premiere pass-rusher in this scheme. Richard Seymour Old-School 3-4 DE role. Why do you consistently make the worst posts on this board? Maybe I just need some Gettlemagic. You sure told me. No need for pass rushers off the edge. I'm getting used to these 4-5-6 win seasons. It's been fun. "We already have a great RB - Paul Perkins" and "Dalvin Tomlinson is more important to re-sign than Leonard Wiliams" are 2 of your gems. Where did the Giants rank in scoring defense in 2020? Who was their #1 "edge" rusher? Kyler Fackrell? Yeah, exactly. The job of OLBs in this scheme is to CONTAIN, not get up the field to chase sacks. The Giants are about to field a Top 5 Defense in 2021 with Ryan Anderson as their #1 "edge rusher". OLB is the least important position on this defense and it isn't even remotely close.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 11, 2021 11:39:26 GMT -5
Maybe I just need some Gettlemagic. You sure told me. No need for pass rushers off the edge. I'm getting used to these 4-5-6 win seasons. It's been fun. "We already have a great RB - Paul Perkins" and "Dalvin Tomlinson is more important to re-sign than Leonard Wiliams" are 2 of your gems. Where did the Giants rank in scoring defense in 2020? Who was their #1 "edge" rusher? Kyler Fackrell? Yeah, exactly. The job of OLBs in this scheme is to CONTAIN, not get up the field to chase sacks. The Giants are about to field a Top 5 Defense in 2021 with Ryan Anderson as their #1 "edge rusher". OLB is the least important position on this defense and it isn't even remotely close. Sure. Adding a great pass rushing edge player won't help our defense out at all... Lol
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rbe40
Special Teams
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Post by rbe40 on Apr 11, 2021 13:07:36 GMT -5
"We already have a great RB - Paul Perkins" and "Dalvin Tomlinson is more important to re-sign than Leonard Wiliams" are 2 of your gems. Where did the Giants rank in scoring defense in 2020? Who was their #1 "edge" rusher? Kyler Fackrell? Yeah, exactly. The job of OLBs in this scheme is to CONTAIN, not get up the field to chase sacks. The Giants are about to field a Top 5 Defense in 2021 with Ryan Anderson as their #1 "edge rusher". OLB is the least important position on this defense and it isn't even remotely close. Sure. Adding a great pass rushing edge player won't help our defense out at all... Lol Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. I guess I have to keep repeating myself for you to get it.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 11, 2021 13:11:59 GMT -5
Sure. Adding a great pass rushing edge player won't help our defense out at all... Lol Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. I guess I have to keep repeating myself for you to get it. Ok guy, then what is a necessity to you? I'd love to hear your opinion, since I'm over hearing your opinion that edge rushers aren't important.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 11, 2021 13:12:55 GMT -5
Sure. Adding a great pass rushing edge player won't help our defense out at all... Lol Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. Luxury, not a necessity. I guess I have to keep repeating myself for you to get it. your view has its merits but its certainly not the "be all end all" in a defensive roster for a 3-4.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 11, 2021 19:45:40 GMT -5
Maybe I just need some Gettlemagic. You sure told me. No need for pass rushers off the edge. I'm getting used to these 4-5-6 win seasons. It's been fun. "We already have a great RB - Paul Perkins" and "Dalvin Tomlinson is more important to re-sign than Leonard Wiliams" are 2 of your gems. Where did the Giants rank in scoring defense in 2020? Who was their #1 "edge" rusher? Kyler Fackrell? Yeah, exactly. The job of OLBs in this scheme is to CONTAIN, not get up the field to chase sacks. The Giants are about to field a Top 5 Defense in 2021 with Ryan Anderson as their #1 "edge rusher". OLB is the least important position on this defense and it isn't even remotely close. The opposing QB’s the Giants faced were pathetic last. Over half were backups.
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