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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 12:57:57 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? #1 They had a young franchise QB in place #2 health we have not had the services of some of our best players most of the year,I think both of our tackles have been hurting for a while now #3 I was surprised to see the Raiders did have some young talent on the roster, and moved quickly when they made mistakes Brown was cut faster then he signed, but we did the same thing with that type of stuff. #4 really is part of #1 starting a rookie QB is tough teams are struggling with their second year QBs sure there are more thats what I see tho.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 13:04:39 GMT -5
Fair enough, but the Raiders are still a very young team as well. I just heard that their last 6 TDs were from rookies. They are still learning too. How much of the cap space was used by the Raiders the past 2 off seasons by how much the Giants used the past 2 off seasons? Just to compare. we know our big splurge should be in 2020. Also, We started with the seasoned vet Eli, and looked atrocious anyways. Not sure the rookie QB has much to do with it. Most here thought Derrick Carr was about out in LA anyways after last year. He appears to have been coached up. To me I think the 2 biggest factors of why our rebuild isnt taking off and improving quite like the Raiders rebuild has done, is due to the failed rebuild of the OL and the coaching selections thus far. you cannot compare what Eli would have done to the rookie. He averages 2 turnovers a game . It is hard to win like that. I am cool with it. I cam see the light at the end of the tunnel . We are in learning mode. Yea Eli was big getting the ball out quicker 2.4 secs, setting protections, running the game from the LOS, health the Giants have been with out their best players for chunks of the season and never had them all on the field together, last but not least the young players on the raiders are young vets they have gone through what the Giants are going through now already.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 13:06:24 GMT -5
Mayock looks to have had one of the best drafts in recent memory Combined with superior coaching there you have it. Gruden is a SB champion. Pat Shurmur is 17-40 Oakland has also put together one of if not the best OLs in The league this year. Coaching... Gettin incognito our of moth balls and getting him stable was big for them, is that where they spent their money or were the players already there.
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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 8, 2019 13:06:26 GMT -5
The raiders did not dismantle their entire team . Still on the Raiders from 2017 25% retention Reggie Nelson Karl Joseph Nicholas Morrow Dexter McDonald Justin Ellis Marquel Lee DeAndre Washington Jalen Richard Keith McGill Rodney Hudson Derrick Carr Maurice Hurst Gabe Jackson Still on the Giants from 2017 17 % retention Eli Jack rabbit Wayne Gallman Rhett Ellison Zak DeOssie Jon Halapio Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Evan Engram The Raiders had 72 million in cap space this past off season. The Giants had 23 million The Giants are starting a rookie QB. This +1000. Also, Gruden is a seasoned SB winning coach. Shurmur seems as if he's learning as he goes. I'm not being snarky here - Do you really think it seems like Shurmur is learning anything? I see the same crap week after week from him.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 8, 2019 13:13:30 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? The raiders did not dismantle their entire team . Still on the Raiders from 2017 25% retention Reggie Nelson Karl Joseph Nicholas Morrow Dexter McDonald Justin Ellis Marquel Lee DeAndre Washington Jalen Richard Keith McGill Rodney Hudson Derrick Carr Maurice Hurst Gabe Jackson Still on the Giants from 2017 17 % retention Eli Jack rabbit Wayne Gallman Rhett Ellison Zak DeOssie Jon Halapio Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Evan Engram The Raiders had 72 million in cap space this past off season. The Giants had 23 million The Giants are starting a rookie QB. Uh oh Facts
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Post by DJones19 on Nov 8, 2019 13:18:38 GMT -5
We have a middle of the road offense but a bottom 5 defense. Most of the draft picks look promising in the last 2 years Jones, Barkley, etc.
Hard to win games with a bottom 5 defense.
Gettleman is a proven NFL executive with a better resume than Mayock so I expect him to help turn things around. We have 30+ million dollars on the books that isn't being used this year....not a recipe for success for Shurmur or the team. That will change next year. Lots of people were talking about how Gruden was doing an awful job last year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 13:33:09 GMT -5
This +1000. Also, Gruden is a seasoned SB winning coach. Shurmur seems as if he's learning as he goes. I'm not being snarky here - Do you really think it seems like Shurmur is learning anything? I see the same crap week after week from him. I do, but I think it's all reactionary rather than proactive. Like he's surprised by things. I don't get on him about things like challenging the PI calls/non-calls. As dumb as the rule is itself, it's a tool that he can use and it only costs us a timeout. We have nothing to lose anyway. But, some people get so pissed at him for it. Hopefully, the abolish that rule next off season. It was a knee jerk reaction to the Rams/Saints debacle.
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Post by SG88 on Nov 8, 2019 13:36:01 GMT -5
Competent coaches, a nice front office, and an owner that stays out of football guys' ways in making decisions. Al Davis used to meddle his ass off. Mark knows that his football knowledge is bad and just stays completely out of the way. The Raiders used to be a mess. Now the Giants have assumed the watch. John and Chris Mara are killing this franchise.
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Post by SG88 on Nov 8, 2019 13:39:36 GMT -5
I'm not being snarky here - Do you really think it seems like Shurmur is learning anything? I see the same crap week after week from him. I do, but I think it's all reactionary rather than proactive. Like he's surprised by things. I don't get on him about things like challenging the PI calls/non-calls. As dumb as the rule is itself, it's a tool that he can use and it only costs us a timeout. We have nothing to lose anyway. But, some people get so pissed at him for it. Hopefully, the abolish that rule next off season. It was a knee jerk reaction to the Rams/Saints debacle. In regards to the PI challenges, I think that the lack overturned calls has way more to do with pride than getting them right. They should just eliminate the ability for a coach to challenge those PI calls and just review them in the last two minutes
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 13:53:03 GMT -5
you cannot compare what Eli would have done to the rookie. He averages 2 a game . It is hard to win like that. I am cool with it. I cam see the light at the end of the tunnel Why not? I think we all have seen Eli enough to know how he would do behind center this season. And we 100% weren't winning that Bucs game with Eli. Thats 50% of our wins. . You can speculate. What ifs are not in anyway based upon any known facts. Opinions on who would won what game are pointless compared to the facts. These are the facts. Dj has 477 snaps 18 turnovers. That is 1 turnover for every 26 snaps or 4% turnover ratio. He has also been sacked 26 times in 257 attempts that is 1 sack in every 10 attempts or 10%. IT is hard to win like that . Both not uncommon stats for rookie QBs.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 14:00:50 GMT -5
Why not? I think we all have seen Eli enough to know how he would do behind center this season. And we 100% weren't winning that Bucs game with Eli. Thats 50% of our wins. . You can speculate. What ifs are not in anyway based upon any known facts. Opinions on who would won what game are pointless compared to the facts. These are the facts. Dj has 477 snaps 18 turnovers. That is 1 turnover for every 26 snaps or 4% turnover ratio. He has also been sacked 26 times in 257 attempts that is 1 sack in every 10 attempts or 10%. IT is hard to win like that . Both not uncommon stats for rookie QBs. I agree with that. His turnovers are a huge reason why this team is struggling on offense. Lets not act like we didnt see that for 15 years with Eli though.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 14:01:23 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? Carr > Jones Betcher stinks so far Gruden> Shurmur not hard to see why the Raiders are better at this point First thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to also.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 14:03:56 GMT -5
Carr > Jones Betcher stinks so far Gruden> Shurmur not hard to see why the Raiders are better at this point For thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then as the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 14:04:48 GMT -5
First thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to as well.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up. lol
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 14:07:47 GMT -5
For thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then as the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up. 27 kids? "What is he, Mormon?"
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 8, 2019 14:10:31 GMT -5
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up. 27 kids? "What is he, Mormon?" GREAT movie
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 8, 2019 14:13:30 GMT -5
Carr > Jones Betcher stinks so far Gruden> Shurmur not hard to see why the Raiders are better at this point First thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to also.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers also had 2 ints wiped out due tp penalties or he would have had 5
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 8, 2019 14:14:19 GMT -5
For thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then as the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up. prettty much this
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 14:19:20 GMT -5
27 kids? "What is he, Mormon?" GREAT movie One of my favorites. I one of those dipshits that throw movie quotes out at parties with other movie dipshits that annoy and confuse everyone else. Fletch is a big one. I've seen it a 100 times and know every line.
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smitty
Special Teams
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Post by smitty on Nov 8, 2019 14:22:16 GMT -5
Gruden is a superior HC compared to Shurmur. Gruden also knows what he wants on both sides of the ball. Gruden has taken a young, under-performing QB and made him better already.
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smitty
Special Teams
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Post by smitty on Nov 8, 2019 14:27:21 GMT -5
For thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then as the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up. Yup. The 2004 QB draft class is just about ready to collectively ride off into the sunset, and they're taking Larry Fitz with them.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 14:29:51 GMT -5
First thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to also.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers also had 2 ints wiped out due tp penalties or he would have had 5 And he threw 2 pick six's it's a miracle they had the lead with 2 and change game should have been a blowout.
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 14:34:03 GMT -5
W . You can speculate. What ifs are not in anyway based upon any known facts. Opinions on who would won what game are pointless compared to the facts. These are the facts. Dj has 477 snaps 18 turnovers. That is 1 turnover for every 26 snaps or 4% turnover ratio. He has also been sacked 26 times in 257 attempts that is 1 sack in every 10 attempts or 10%. IT is hard to win like that . Both not uncommon stats for rookie QBs. I agree with that. His turnovers are a huge reason why this team is struggling on offense. Lets not act like we didnt see that for 15 years with Eli though. Eli was not turning the ball over at that rate. Rookies do.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 8, 2019 14:36:33 GMT -5
One of my favorites. I one of those dipshits that throw movie quotes out at parties with other movie dipshits that annoy and confuse everyone else. Fletch is a big one. I've seen it a 100 times and know every line. If you have ever shown up late and not said, "I would have been here sooner, but a manure-spreader jackknifed on the Santa Ana" than there is something wrong with you.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 8, 2019 14:43:50 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? I don't think that, I could start with mentioning Vernon and Mack in the same sentence but the reality is that to me this is just so much skinniest kid at the fat camp. The Raiders look OK and good for them but that I don;t give a crap about coming in 17th place instead of 15th.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 14:47:13 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 8, 2019 14:51:55 GMT -5
you cannot compare what Eli would have done to the rookie. He averages 2 a game . It is hard to win like that. I am cool with it. I cam see the light at the end of the tunnel Why not? I think we all have seen Eli enough to know how he would do behind center this season. And we 100% weren't winning that Bucs game with Eli. Thats 50% of our wins. Not coincidentally at all if you look at it that way, that's the only conclusion you could draw.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 8, 2019 14:56:39 GMT -5
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up. Yup. The 2004 QB draft class is just about ready to collectively ride off into the sunset, and they're taking Larry Fitz with them. As I've been saying for some time now, they all are. Brady doesn't count.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 8, 2019 14:58:50 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling. Derek Carr? lol!
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 14:59:40 GMT -5
For thing that came to mind was an experienced QB vs a rookie, and then as the established SB winning coach vs one who didn't have success his first time around. Mayock's a guy I've always enjoyed listening to.
Raiders looked good last night.
The Chargers and Philip Rivers didn't.
Rivers last INT was an embarrassment.
Rivers might be done too. Time for him to watch his 27 kids grow up. The whole 2004 is done .
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