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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 15:02:14 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling. Their QB could not have shined Eli's shoes when Eli's was his age. Celling?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 15:08:43 GMT -5
One of my favorites. I one of those dipshits that throw movie quotes out at parties with other movie dipshits that annoy and confuse everyone else. Fletch is a big one. I've seen it a 100 times and know every line. If you have ever shown up late and not said, "I would have been here sooner, but a manure-spreader jackknifed on the Santa Ana" than there is something wrong with you. "You should see my shoes." And of course, "It's all ball bearings nowadays". But there are so many other good one liners in that movie. "It's not every man that can admit he has syphilis and where he got it"
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 15:22:42 GMT -5
W I agree with that. His turnovers are a huge reason why this team is struggling on offense. Lets not act like we didnt see that for 15 years with Eli though. Eli was not turning the ball over at that rate. Rookies do. You are right. Eli recently has trimmed his turnover ratio down. He led the league in turnovers from 05 thru I think it was 13, leading the league in INTs 3x, but the past couple of years certainly slowed his turnovers down thanks to the safe quick throws. Unfortunately it didnt translate to Ws
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 15:29:09 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling.
Better coach I'll give you.
Gettleman has been an NFL executive for about 10 years now. Mayock is 10 months on the job, and only a fool would waste time discussing a QB's ceiling after 7 games.
Your posts of late appear to be a pretty lame attempt to get a rise out of others, rather than offering anything of value to the discussion.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 8, 2019 15:43:29 GMT -5
If you have ever shown up late and not said, "I would have been here sooner, but a manure-spreader jackknifed on the Santa Ana" than there is something wrong with you. "You should see my shoes." And of course, "It's all ball bearings nowadays". But there are so many other good one liners in that movie. "It's not every man that can admit he has syphilis and where he got it" One of my partners is just a few years younger than me. Twice he has gravely disappointed me. The first was when we were looking at a down boiler, and I actually got to slip in, "It's all ball bearings nowadays". The maintenance tech laughed but my partner asked me what I meant...never saw it. Worse than that, a sketchy guy asked me about a vacant restaurant space...later, I jokingly said to my partner that the "Soylent Green" corporation was interested in the space. It took a few minutes for me to realize he did not get the reference and had never seen that movie either.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 8, 2019 15:45:56 GMT -5
WEli was not turning the ball over at that rate. Rookies do. You are right. Eli recently has trimmed his turnover ratio down. He led the league in turnovers from 05 thru I think it was 13, leading the league in INTs 3x, but the past couple of years certainly slowed his turnovers down thanks to the safe quick throws. Unfortunately it didnt translate to Ws Do you think we would be winning if DJ was taking those safe, quick throws? I do not. Worse, he has no OBJ to either draw defenders deep or take a shallow cross 75 yards.
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Post by thetruth on Nov 8, 2019 15:47:59 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? Quite simply. A better FO
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Post by thetruth on Nov 8, 2019 15:56:52 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? The raiders did not dismantle their entire team . Still on the Raiders from 2017 25% retention Reggie Nelson Karl Joseph Nicholas Morrow Dexter McDonald Justin Ellis Marquel Lee DeAndre Washington Jalen Richard Keith McGill Rodney Hudson Derrick Carr Maurice Hurst Gabe Jackson Still on the Giants from 2017 17 % retention Eli Jack rabbit Wayne Gallman Rhett Ellison Zak DeOssie Jon Halapio Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Evan Engram The Raiders had 72 million in cap space this past off season. The Giants had 23 million The Giants are starting a rookie QB. Dismantling a team was never a mandate. Rather, a choice by the GM. His replacements aren't good right now or when looking at his FA's, they were overpaid and most of them were never any good. Which film was this GM watching, again? - Soldier - Stewart - Omameh - Ogletree - K. Martin - Halapio - Remmers - Zeitler (shocking, I know. He's been largely average-bad). - Curtis Riley (possibly the worst starter the Giants have had in quite some time) this is off the top of my head. Peppers makes flash plays but takes horrible angles and misses too many tackles for my liking. He's been decent though so not a bad move. Now, im seeing fans saying that our draft picks are already "hits". Well, not really, they are playing a lot of snaps but that doesn't mean they're playing well. Its a necessity not something thats earned. Retention from a macro perspective doesn't quite tell the whole story.
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 16:13:49 GMT -5
WEli was not turning the ball over at that rate. Rookies do. You are right. Eli recently has trimmed his turnover ratio down. He led the league in turnovers from 05 thru I think it was 13, leading the league in INTs 3x, but the past couple of years certainly slowed his turnovers down thanks to the safe quick throws. Unfortunately it didnt translate to Ws When DJ gets the turnover rate lowered 1 to 3O or more . He'll put himself in a better position to win Eli was 1-33, Phil was 1-30
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 16:16:12 GMT -5
The raiders did not dismantle their entire team . Still on the Raiders from 2017 25% retention Reggie Nelson Karl Joseph Nicholas Morrow Dexter McDonald Justin Ellis Marquel Lee DeAndre Washington Jalen Richard Keith McGill Rodney Hudson Derrick Carr Maurice Hurst Gabe Jackson Still on the Giants from 2017 17 % retention Eli Jack rabbit Wayne Gallman Rhett Ellison Zak DeOssie Jon Halapio Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Evan Engram The Raiders had 72 million in cap space this past off season. The Giants had 23 million The Giants are starting a rookie QB. Dismantling a team was never a mandate. Rather, a choice by the GM. His replacements aren't good right now or when looking at his FA's, they were overpaid and most of them were never any good. Which film was this GM watching, again? - Soldier - Stewart - Omameh - Ogletree - K. Martin - Halapio - Remmers - Zeitler (shocking, I know. He's been largely average-bad). - Curtis Riley (possibly the worst starter the Giants have had in quite some time) this is off the top of my head. Peppers makes flash plays but takes horrible angles and misses too many tackles for my liking. He's been decent though so not a bad move. Now, im seeing fans saying that our draft picks are already "hits". Well, not really, they are playing a lot of snaps but that doesn't mean they're playing well. Its a necessity not something thats earned. Retention from a macro perspective doesn't quite tell the whole story. It doesn't but it does show the extent of the rebuild,
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 8, 2019 16:16:52 GMT -5
WEli was not turning the ball over at that rate. Rookies do. You are right. Eli recently has trimmed his turnover ratio down. He led the league in turnovers from 05 thru I think it was 13, leading the league in INTs 3x, but the past couple of years certainly slowed his turnovers down thanks to the safe quick throws. Unfortunately it didnt translate to Ws I'll take a volatile QB that brings high high and low lows over a safe QB that never wins anything of substance. Mcadoo helped reduce his TOs and programmed winning right out of win.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 16:26:17 GMT -5
You are right. Eli recently has trimmed his turnover ratio down. He led the league in turnovers from 05 thru I think it was 13, leading the league in INTs 3x, but the past couple of years certainly slowed his turnovers down thanks to the safe quick throws. Unfortunately it didnt translate to Ws Do you think we would be winning if DJ was taking those safe, quick throws? I do not. Worse, he has no OBJ to either draw defenders deep or take a shallow cross 75 yards. Probably not. Shurmurs play calling is leaving a lot to be desired. Definitely miss ODBs breakaway slants.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 16:28:50 GMT -5
You are right. Eli recently has trimmed his turnover ratio down. He led the league in turnovers from 05 thru I think it was 13, leading the league in INTs 3x, but the past couple of years certainly slowed his turnovers down thanks to the safe quick throws. Unfortunately it didnt translate to Ws When DJ gets the turnover rate lowered 1 to 3O or more . He'll put himself in a better position to win Eli was 1-33, Phil was 1-30 Im sure it will happen, or he wont be in the league in 3 years.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 8, 2019 16:31:52 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? I hate to say this because I'm not a fan of Gruden but it looks like the Raiders have a much better head coach than we do, not to mention that Gruden seems much more experienced at this than Shurmur does, sometimes Shurmur looks to me that he is in way over his head with this job...he might do a better job as a position coach....
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 16:33:28 GMT -5
When DJ gets the turnover rate lowered 1 to 3O or more . He'll put himself in a better position to win Eli was 1-33, Phil was 1-30 Im sure it will happen, or he wont be in the league in 3 years. I agree.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 8, 2019 16:33:36 GMT -5
Oakland has also put together one of if not the best OLs in The league this year. Coaching... Gettin incognito our of moth balls and getting him stable was big for them, is that where they spent their money or were the players already there. it wasn't too long ago that Incognito was available for any one who wanted him and we passed on him just like a lot of other teams...
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 16:34:53 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? I hate to say this because I'm not a fan of Gruden but it looks like the Raiders have a much better head coach the we do, not to mention that Gruden seems much more experienced at this than Shurmur does, sometimes Shurmur looks to me that he is in way over his head with this job...he might do a better job as a position coach.... Which is exactly how he was in Cleveland too many moons ago... I guess we were hoping he "grew" from his experience.
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Post by jaymas on Nov 8, 2019 16:36:48 GMT -5
Mayock looks to have had one of the best drafts in recent memory Combined with superior coaching there you have it. Gruden is a SB champion. Pat Shurmur is 17-40 Perfectly stated. Didn't need playoffs this year...needed improvement. We don't have that. We'll see how the rest of the year shakes out.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 8, 2019 16:37:34 GMT -5
I'm not being snarky here - Do you really think it seems like Shurmur is learning anything? I see the same crap week after week from him. I do, but I think it's all reactionary rather than proactive. Like he's surprised by things. I don't get on him about things like challenging the PI calls/non-calls. As dumb as the rule is itself, it's a tool that he can use and it only costs us a timeout. We have nothing to lose anyway. But, some people get so pissed at him for it. Hopefully, the abolish that rule next off season. It was a knee jerk reaction to the Rams/Saints debacle. in the words of Bruce Hornsby, "did you really think about it before you made the rule"
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 16:42:21 GMT -5
You are right. Eli recently has trimmed his turnover ratio down. He led the league in turnovers from 05 thru I think it was 13, leading the league in INTs 3x, but the past couple of years certainly slowed his turnovers down thanks to the safe quick throws. Unfortunately it didnt translate to Ws No , it's actually 2004- 2019 www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_active.htmRothesburger is close as is Brees and Rivers when you take into consideration Eli hasn't missed the games they have , they are pretty even. Until you consider Fumbles as well... www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fumbles_career.htm
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 16:44:09 GMT -5
Didn't need playoffs this year...needed improvement. ............with Eli as QB , yes absolutely. You can't say that starting a rookie QB. Why could we not hope to see improvement in our defense? Or OL? Both look much worse...
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 17:19:56 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling. Derek Carr? lol! I never claimed that Derek Carr was anything special but there’s no doubt Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 17:20:40 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling. Their QB could not have shined Eli's shoes when Eli's was his age. Celling? I wasn’t comparing Derek Carr to Eli; I was comparing him to our current starter.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 17:24:33 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling.
Better coach I'll give you.
Gettleman has been an NFL executive for about 10 years now. Mayock is 10 months on the job, and only a fool would waste time discussing a QB's ceiling after 7 games.
Your posts of late appear to be a pretty lame attempt to get a rise out of others, rather than offering anything of value to the discussion.
Derek Carr at this point is far superior to Daniel Jones and there’s nothing Daniel Jones has shown to disprove that. So far, Daniel Jones has lived up to the concerns about him coming out of college. I’m not attempting to get a rise out of anyone but your statement that I am is your obvious attempt.
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Post by jaymas on Nov 8, 2019 17:26:07 GMT -5
Didn't need playoffs this year...needed improvement. ............with Eli as QB , yes absolutely. You can't say that starting a rookie QB. It's not just that. The offensive line isn't really playing better, the defense is worse, Saquon Barkley is less effective. It's things that have nothing to do with that switch that have me concerned.
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 17:26:53 GMT -5
7u Their QB could not have shined Eli's shoes when Eli's was his age. Celling? I wasn’t comparing Derek Carr to Eli; I was comparing him to our current starter. I agree with that. What makes you think Carr has a higher celling than DJ. To me Carr has not prove he is more than a middle of the pack QB.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 17:33:49 GMT -5
Gettin incognito our of moth balls and getting him stable was big for them, is that where they spent their money or were the players already there. it wasn't too long ago that Incognito was available for any one who wanted him and we passed on him just like a lot of other teams... Most teams passed on him because he was having mental breakdowns when the dolphins thing went down I was all for is signing him tho. got laughed at on the old board.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 17:34:14 GMT -5
7u I wasn’t comparing Derek Carr to Eli; I was comparing him to our current starter. I agree with that. What makes you think Carr has a higher celling than DJ. To me Carr has not prove he is more than a middle of the pack QB. The reason I’m claiming that is that in my opinion, we’ve seen the ceiling with Daniel Jones. Barring a major turn around in the player that he has been since he started college, we’re not going to see much improvement. One of the things that sticks out is that it appears Daniel Jones wants to attempt throws that he doesn’t have the arm strength to make. In addition to the terrible fumble problems and pocket awareness, I don’t think he’s going to improve.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 8, 2019 17:41:46 GMT -5
I never claimed that Derek Carr was anything special but there’s no doubt Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones. Today? Sure, I agree with that although I do not agree about the higher ceiling. I think we've seen Carr's ceiling, it's more cove than cathedral
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 17:49:36 GMT -5
7uI agree with that. What makes you think Carr has a higher celling than DJ. To me Carr has not prove he is more than a middle of the pack QB. The reason I’m claiming that is that in my opinion, we’ve seen the ceiling with Daniel Jones. Barring a major turn around in the player that he has been since he started college, we’re not going to see much improvement. One of the things that sticks out is that it appears Daniel Jones wants to attempt throws that he doesn’t have the arm strength to make. In addition to the terrible fumble problems and pocket awareness, I don’t think he’s going to improve. Peyton Manning went 3-13 In his rookie year. He threw 28 interceptions and had 3 fumbles for a total of 31 turnovers. If I were you I would just stop with this type of logic. I think you are a good poster. My friend If you continue with this kind of banter, any remaining credibility you hang on to will dissolve. You do not want to become the new site clown.
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