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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 8, 2019 18:15:57 GMT -5
One of my favorites. I one of those dipshits that throw movie quotes out at parties with other movie dipshits that annoy and confuse everyone else. Fletch is a big one. I've seen it a 100 times and know every line. Believe it or not, I've never seen the movie...My moniker has nothing to do with that, been a nickname for me since I was a kid, well before the movie came out...
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 18:31:51 GMT -5
I never claimed that Derek Carr was anything special but there’s no doubt Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones. Today? Sure, I agree with that although I do not agree about the higher ceiling. I think we've seen Carr's ceiling, it's more cove than cathedral I think many here forget how good Derek Carr was to start his career. It got to the point where everyone thought he was playing like what his brother would have been if he had not been beaten into oblivion. He was pretty legit his first few years on some bad Raiders teams. Rookie Year: 3270 yards 21 TDs 12 INTs 2nd year - 3987 yards 32 TDs 13 INTs 3rd year - 3937 yards 28 TDs 6 INTs Then it started falling on him a bit as the Raiders made dumb decisions. I think he has potential as a top 10 QB in this league annually. In 5.5 years he has a QB rating of 90.3 with 20,941 yards 136 TDs to 58 INTs. Thats pretty solid.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 18:34:31 GMT -5
The reason I’m claiming that is that in my opinion, we’ve seen the ceiling with Daniel Jones. Barring a major turn around in the player that he has been since he started college, we’re not going to see much improvement. One of the things that sticks out is that it appears Daniel Jones wants to attempt throws that he doesn’t have the arm strength to make. In addition to the terrible fumble problems and pocket awareness, I don’t think he’s going to improve. Peyton Manning went 3-13 In his rookie year. He threw 28 interceptions and had 3 fumbles for a total of 31 turnovers. If I were you I would just stop with this type of logic. I think you are a good poster. My friend If you continue with this kind of banter, any remaining credibility you hang on to will dissolve. You do not want to become the new site clown. Im not sure how you can berate someone of their logic from what they have seen, as their opinion, and then bring up the rare Peyton Manning example. Thats like when people use the Tom Brady 6th round QB example. Its very rare. Everyone is allowed to express their own opinion. Personally I dont agree with what he said, but he is certainly allowed to say it and provide reason why he said it, without getting insulted.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 8, 2019 18:43:16 GMT -5
Today? Sure, I agree with that although I do not agree about the higher ceiling. I think we've seen Carr's ceiling, it's more cove than cathedral I think many here forget how good Derek Carr was to start his career. It got to the point where everyone thought he was playing like what his brother would have been if he had not been beaten into oblivion. He was pretty legit his first few years on some bad Raiders teams. Rookie Year: 3270 yards 21 TDs 12 INTs 2nd year - 3987 yards 32 TDs 13 INTs 3rd year - 3937 yards 28 TDs 6 INTs Then it started falling on him a bit as the Raiders made dumb decisions. I think he has potential as a top 10 QB in this league annually. In 5.5 years he has a QB rating of 90.3 with 20,941 yards 136 TDs to 58 INTs. Thats pretty solid. I remember his very good year, 2016 I think. The Raiders were really good that year. I think he's good, don't get me wrong I guess it remains to be seen if the make the playoffs again whether he's a difference maker or not.
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 19:07:41 GMT -5
Peyton Manning went 3-13 In his rookie year. He threw 28 interceptions and had 3 fumbles for a total of 31 turnovers. If I were you I would just stop with this type of logic. I think you are a good poster. My friend If you continue with this kind of banter, any remaining credibility you hang on to will dissolve. You do not want to become the new site clown. Im not sure how you can berate someone of their logic from what they have seen, as their opinion, and then bring up the rare Peyton Manning example. Thats like when people use the Tom Brady 6th round QB example. Its very rare. Everyone is allowed to express their own opinion. Personally I dont agree with what he said, but he is certainly allowed to say it and provide reason why he said it, without getting insulted. Eli in his 1st full season 28 sacks 17 ints 9 fumbles. Arron Rodgers in his fist full season 13 ints sacked 34 times 10 fumbles Drew Brees in his first full season 16 ints sacked 24 times. 2 fumbles Ben Roethlisberger in his rookie year 11 ints sacked 30 times 2 fumbles. Phil Simms in his rookie year 14 ints sacked 39 times 3 fumbles All won super bowls . My intentions we not an insult . They were to get the thinking on what he thinks a celling for a rookie is, inline with reality .Do you think saying a rookie has hit a celling in game is based on any observable NFL QB . The way he is playing is exactly the way most rookies play .The use of top tier QBs holds validation to the way a rookie plays. Inconstant and often reckless. 7 games in no way is an indication of a celling. If it was then the failure rate among rookie and 1st season starters would be in the 95% range. Maybe Rosie is correct in what he said . His posts are base on getting a reaction. I hope it is not.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 19:14:40 GMT -5
Better coach I'll give you.
Gettleman has been an NFL executive for about 10 years now. Mayock is 10 months on the job, and only a fool would waste time discussing a QB's ceiling after 7 games.
Your posts of late appear to be a pretty lame attempt to get a rise out of others, rather than offering anything of value to the discussion.
Derek Carr at this point is far superior to Daniel Jones and there’s nothing Daniel Jones has shown to disprove that. So far, Daniel Jones has lived up to the concerns about him coming out of college. I’m not attempting to get a rise out of anyone but your statement that I am is your obvious attempt. I’m just telling you how you sound. Other than the Gruden comment, it was nonsensical.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 19:22:29 GMT -5
7uI agree with that. What makes you think Carr has a higher celling than DJ. To me Carr has not prove he is more than a middle of the pack QB. The reason I’m claiming that is that in my opinion, we’ve seen the ceiling with Daniel Jones. Barring a major turn around in the player that he has been since he started college, we’re not going to see much improvement. One of the things that sticks out is that it appears Daniel Jones wants to attempt throws that he doesn’t have the arm strength to make. In addition to the terrible fumble problems and pocket awareness, I don’t think he’s going to improve. I'm just.....um......I......no.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 19:24:54 GMT -5
The reason I’m claiming that is that in my opinion, we’ve seen the ceiling with Daniel Jones. Barring a major turn around in the player that he has been since he started college, we’re not going to see much improvement. One of the things that sticks out is that it appears Daniel Jones wants to attempt throws that he doesn’t have the arm strength to make. In addition to the terrible fumble problems and pocket awareness, I don’t think he’s going to improve. Peyton Manning went 3-13 In his rookie year. He threw 28 interceptions and had 3 fumbles for a total of 31 turnovers. If I were you I would just stop with this type of logic. I think you are a good poster. My friend If you continue with this kind of banter, any remaining credibility you hang on to will dissolve. You do not want to become the new site clown. I take it that the comparison to Peyton is strictly on first season struggles and not talent wise. I do see the point with that and I do understand the optimism. The issue I have with Daniel Jones is that these problems have been there since he was in college and I can further clarify that as long as we have PS here, I don’t think DJ is going to mature. Now, with a different HC, DJ may overcome these deficiencies.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 19:25:59 GMT -5
The reason I’m claiming that is that in my opinion, we’ve seen the ceiling with Daniel Jones. Barring a major turn around in the player that he has been since he started college, we’re not going to see much improvement. One of the things that sticks out is that it appears Daniel Jones wants to attempt throws that he doesn’t have the arm strength to make. In addition to the terrible fumble problems and pocket awareness, I don’t think he’s going to improve. Peyton Manning went 3-13 In his rookie year. He threw 28 interceptions and had 3 fumbles for a total of 31 turnovers. If I were you I would just stop with this type of logic. I think you are a good poster. My friend If you continue with this kind of banter, any remaining credibility you hang on to will dissolve. You do not want to become the new site clown. Probably would have been more helpful weeks ago. I'm afraid the Calliope is already playing in everyone's head when reading his posts.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 19:26:55 GMT -5
Derek Carr at this point is far superior to Daniel Jones and there’s nothing Daniel Jones has shown to disprove that. So far, Daniel Jones has lived up to the concerns about him coming out of college. I’m not attempting to get a rise out of anyone but your statement that I am is your obvious attempt. I’m just telling you how you sound. Other than the Gruden comment, it was nonsensical. So you don’t think that Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones right now?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 19:29:20 GMT -5
I’m just telling you how you sound. Other than the Gruden comment, it was nonsensical. So you don’t think that Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones right now? That was never the point. One has years of experience the other is a rookie. You stated that we have already seen Jones' ceiling. It's a ludicrous thing to say.
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 19:30:27 GMT -5
Peyton Manning went 3-13 In his rookie year. He threw 28 interceptions and had 3 fumbles for a total of 31 turnovers. If I were you I would just stop with this type of logic. I think you are a good poster. My friend If you continue with this kind of banter, any remaining credibility you hang on to will dissolve. You do not want to become the new site clown. I take it that the comparison to Peyton is strictly on first season struggles and not talent wise. I do see the point with that and I do understand the optimism. The issue I have with Daniel Jones is that these problems have been there since he was in college and I can further clarify that as long as we have PS here, I don’t think DJ is going to mature. Now, with a different HC, DJ may overcome these deficiencies. This is where you lose me. Jones has shown on many instances the flashes of his talent . The TD pass to Slaton was a deep ball with pinpoint accuracy . That is unteachable . You have that or you do not.
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Post by TEM on Nov 8, 2019 19:35:00 GMT -5
Peyton Manning went 3-13 In his rookie year. He threw 28 interceptions and had 3 fumbles for a total of 31 turnovers. If I were you I would just stop with this type of logic. I think you are a good poster. My friend If you continue with this kind of banter, any remaining credibility you hang on to will dissolve. You do not want to become the new site clown. Probably would have been more helpful weeks ago. I'm afraid the Calliope is already playing in everyone's head when reading his posts. I had no idea what a Calliope was until this post. Had to google it. I agree with your insight.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 19:36:51 GMT -5
Probably would have been more helpful weeks ago. I'm afraid the Calliope is already playing in everyone's head when reading his posts. I had no idea what a Calliope was until this post. Had to google it. I agree with your insight.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 19:39:11 GMT -5
Im not sure how you can berate someone of their logic from what they have seen, as their opinion, and then bring up the rare Peyton Manning example. Thats like when people use the Tom Brady 6th round QB example. Its very rare. Everyone is allowed to express their own opinion. Personally I dont agree with what he said, but he is certainly allowed to say it and provide reason why he said it, without getting insulted. Eli in his 1st full season 28 sacks 17 ints 9 fumbles. Arron Rodgers in his fist full season 13 ints sacked 34 times 10 fumbles Drew Brees in his first full season 16 ints sacked 24 times. 2 fumbles Ben Roethlisberger in his rookie year 11 ints sacked 30 times 2 fumbles. Phil Simms in his rookie year 14 ints sacked 39 times 3 fumbles All won super bowls . My intentions we not an insult . They were to get the thinking on what he thinks a celling for a rookie is, inline with reality .Do you think saying a rookie has hit a celling in game is based on any observable NFL QB . The way he is playing is exactly the way most rookies play .The use of top tier QBs holds validation to the way a rookie plays. Inconstant and often reckless. 7 games in no way is an indication of a celling. If it was then the failure rate among rookie and 1st season starters would be in the 95% range. Maybe Rosie is correct in what he said . His posts are base on getting a reaction. I hope it is not. My point being Peyton Manning is the extreme exception. Your point being most rookie QBs (even successful ones) struggle their rookie years. I think both are true. IF DJ was out there and threw 28 INTs, Id be very very disappointed and not think he has a future here, even understanding rookie QBs struggle. And no, you can not say a rookie QB is at his ceiling right now. Especially with the surrounding cast he has, especially the OL. ITs just a guess that may or may not be right.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 8, 2019 19:41:15 GMT -5
I had no idea what a Calliope was until this post. Had to google it. I agree with your insight. Hee hee
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 19:44:04 GMT -5
I had no idea what a Calliope was until this post. Had to google it. I agree with your insight. Man, what century did kids play with those things?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 19:54:52 GMT -5
Man, what century did kids play with those things? Kids didn't . They were mostly at Carnivals and Circus's they were the musical entertainment. Usually by one person. Usually associated with a clown parade.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 19:55:08 GMT -5
So you don’t think that Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones right now? That was never the point. One has years of experience the other is a rookie. You stated that we have already seen Jones' ceiling. It's a ludicrous thing to say. The continual issues that Daniel Jones has displayed throughout his college career are now manifest in NFL and they actually seem to be getting worse. With PS track record, it’s ludicrous to think that as long as PS is here that Daniel Jones will improve.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 8, 2019 19:55:57 GMT -5
Kids didn't . They were mostly at Carnivals and Circus's they were the musical entertainment. Usually by one person. Usually associated with a clown parade. And a monkey collecting tips
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 8, 2019 20:03:04 GMT -5
Man, what century did kids play with those things? Kids didn't . They were mostly at Carnivals and Circus's they were the musical entertainment. Usually by one person. Ah. Just googled it. Thought that was a little toy from the picture. I always heard the music but never saw the actual device.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 20:05:45 GMT -5
That was never the point. One has years of experience the other is a rookie. You stated that we have already seen Jones' ceiling. It's a ludicrous thing to say. The continual issues that Daniel Jones has displayed throughout his college career are now manifest in NFL and they actually seem to be getting worse. With PS track record, it’s ludicrous to think that as long as PS is here that Daniel Jones will improve. Sorry.....but this is complete and utter nonsense. And before the PC Calvary chimes in to defend your right to your "opinion".....just because it's your opinion, doesn't mean I have to respect it. Opinions can be wrong. Opinions can be completely bat shit....a lot are. Your opinion on DJ isn't reality. The arm strength issue has been debunked. All you have to do is watch his throws. There's plenty of tape on him. To continue this insane line of thinking from before he even threw a pass in the NFL... DESPITE all the evidence to the contrary is, well, insane. . I have no idea if Shurmur is good for DJ's development or not. And neither do you. But if we are basing it on his track record......he did pretty good with Keenum. Does that mean he's a great HC? No it does not......but it certainly doesn't mean he's stunting Jones' growth as a QB.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 20:17:09 GMT -5
I’m just telling you how you sound. Other than the Gruden comment, it was nonsensical. So you don’t think that Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones right now?
What's the point of limiting your question when I made it clear what I was calling you on? I called you out on the ceiling remark.
If you want to compare a rookie with 7 games under his belt to a 6 1/2 year vet, that's your business, but if you want to claim to know which player has the higher ceiling you should expect to be called out for it.
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Post by ocgiant on Nov 8, 2019 21:09:04 GMT -5
Yup. Most here (not everyone though) said hell no to Gruden being the HC here and thought Derek Carr was not a good QB. Im just not sold on the GM or coaches here. And that is a major issue. I am still not sold on Gruden having big success at this point in his NFL career an Carr could still go either way. Right now its working to a degree for them but its not a slam dunk that they are "back" at all. Then they move to Vegas and that in itself will be a shit a show for the NFL. One more step to this sport becoming a spectacle in a negative way IMO. One must embrace "change" now Gruden right now looks like success and a winning formula plus one magical ingredient they all look to be having fun Good for Carr! In the post game interview the guy knows how tough it is to win and he showed some emotion Vegas is gonna clean up with pro football... it is now a destination town, so cheap flights from Oakland, all the loyal Raider Nation folks will caravan down, stay at a motel (off strip) and dump money into the slots or whatever... then costume up for Sunday.
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mj312
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Post by mj312 on Nov 8, 2019 21:10:54 GMT -5
Because the giants organization is just lost . The giants seem to have the same problems year after year regardless of who the players are . We lack any type of depth , and when they say the Giants are rebuilding that's an understatement.. 2 years ago we started from the ground up with barkley but everything around him was so bad that we are struggling to build around him..when most teams say they have a bad line they are talking 2 guys tops 3.. our whole line had to be rebuilt and they still suck .. no hog mollies here .. the worst part is guys that were horrible for us are starters for other teams now and seem serviceable .. something within the Giants organization is broken .. the giants chronically have bad defenses that can't close out games , can't cover tight ends , give up too many crucial 3rd and longs, and on offense can't block , can't run, and lack big plays .
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Post by Parademon1 on Nov 8, 2019 22:41:26 GMT -5
Superior HC whom I wished the team had hired. Way better OL/DL Carr has improved this yr. 14 TDs only 4 Ints
Asides from KC, Oak has a very favorable schedule left. Cincy & Jets are next, that's a 7-4 record if they don't blow it vs either team., then they have winnable games vs Tenn/Jags/Chargers/Broncos. 10-6 or maybe even 11-5 is possible for them.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 22:52:24 GMT -5
The continual issues that Daniel Jones has displayed throughout his college career are now manifest in NFL and they actually seem to be getting worse. With PS track record, it’s ludicrous to think that as long as PS is here that Daniel Jones will improve. Sorry.....but this is complete and utter nonsense. And before the PC Calvary chimes in to defend your right to your "opinion".....just because it's your opinion, doesn't mean I have to respect it. Opinions can be wrong. Opinions can be completely bat shit....a lot are. Your opinion on DJ isn't reality. The arm strength issue has been debunked. All you have to do is watch his throws. There's plenty of tape on him. To continue this insane line of thinking from before he even threw a pass in the NFL... DESPITE all the evidence to the contrary is, well, insane. . I have no idea if Shurmur is good for DJ's development or not. And neither do you. But if we are basing it on his track record......he did pretty good with Keenum. Does that mean he's a great HC? No it does not......but it certainly doesn't mean he's stunting Jones' growth as a QB. Somewhere around 17-40 as a HC. It’s now around 4 months that PS has had to work with Daniel Jones and the same issues he had in college are manifest in NFL and of course, due to the increased level of talent, it’s at a higher rate. Watch the tape on Daniel Jones and watch the throws; average arm strength at best. Daniel Jones doesn’t have the arm strength to succeed in Giants Stadium.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 22:53:35 GMT -5
So you don’t think that Derek Carr is superior to Daniel Jones right now?
What's the point of limiting your question when I made it clear what I was calling you on? I called you out on the ceiling remark.
If you want to compare a rookie with 7 games under his belt to a 6 1/2 year vet, that's your business, but if you want to claim to know which player has the higher ceiling you should expect to be called out for it.
The ceiling on Daniel Jones coming out of Duke was low. Daniel Jones is now showing that assessment to be accurate because those exact same issues are manifest here in his game in NFL.
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Post by giants38 on Nov 8, 2019 23:00:56 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? Draft choices from the trades.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 23:08:22 GMT -5
What's the point of limiting your question when I made it clear what I was calling you on? I called you out on the ceiling remark.
If you want to compare a rookie with 7 games under his belt to a 6 1/2 year vet, that's your business, but if you want to claim to know which player has the higher ceiling you should expect to be called out for it.
The ceiling on Daniel Jones coming out of Duke was low. Daniel Jones is now showing that assessment to be accurate because those exact same issues are manifest here in his game in NFL.
Who's the rocket scientist/s that affixed this "ceiling" to Daniel Jones that you've latched onto? PFF?
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