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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 17, 2021 11:57:05 GMT -5
Devils advocate (because my opinion fluctuates on an hourly basis with not only him but Waddle) 3 years from now if he is averaging 95 catches for 1250 yards and 12 TDs a year as a hybrid big bodied slot type playmaker that moves around,does enough blocking in a secondary role and is one of the catalysts for our in 3 years top 3 overall offense that averages 30 points a game and a perennial super bowl contender will you be complaining if he was taken at 11 because he wasn't a traditional type TE? I'm not saying this is his future as nobody knows. If Judge and tbe offensive staff are jumping up and down like a lunatic saying he is that kind of different maker then we kinda have to trust the process Same thing witb Waddle.. Just looking back in my head, it seems the "miss rate" on first round TE's may be higher than any other position. Definitely get no argument here Then again how may have failed that went to Detroit or Cincinnati (teams that always take TEs in the 1st it seems though Hockenson might be the one that breaks that stresk in Detroit) And 1st round corners might be challenging the highest bust rate in the 1st the past 10 years as well.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2021 12:14:44 GMT -5
Right. I think we're safe taking any of the top 3 at 11. But there should be a good selection that matches value in round 2 if it comes to that. most of the analyst are calling it Chase Smith Pitts putting Waddle in to the lower first round saying he is a slot not an outside WR in the NFL. A team like the Giants with needs outside and at TE OL outside WR LB CB. A player like Waddle is a luxury.
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Post by lt56 on Jan 17, 2021 12:44:21 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 17, 2021 13:22:52 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can You mean a guy that is almost guaranteed to be on the sidelines at least 1/4th tbe year of not more? Pass A guy that gets great seperation with a naturally accurate qb like Jones is just as helpful to a young qb Hight is overrated if tbe guy is always injured or if he is an overglorified possession reciever that will get 18 million from someone (Robinson
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2021 13:34:19 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can Because rookies can't fight for the ball?
Actually WR is one of the fastest producing positions in the NFL. The #5 WR in the NFL this year was a rookie. The right player is more important than how old he is. Would you rather Jefferson or Golden Tate? Tate fought for every ball thrown his way.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 17, 2021 13:47:41 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can Because rookies can't fight for the ball?
Actually WR is one of the fastest producing positions in the NFL. The #5 WR in the NFL this year was a rookie. The right player is more important than how old he is. Would you rather Jefferson or Golden Tate? Tate fought for every ball thrown his way.
If your GM knows how to spot that talent with WRs. Looking at Dave's track record. Yeah, largely trash so let hope
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2021 13:49:33 GMT -5
Because rookies can't fight for the ball?
Actually WR is one of the fastest producing positions in the NFL. The #5 WR in the NFL this year was a rookie. The right player is more important than how old he is. Would you rather Jefferson or Golden Tate? Tate fought for every ball thrown his way.
If your GM knows how to spot that talent with WRs. Looking at Dave's track record. Yeah, largely trash so let hope Not just GM but scouting team and coaching team as well. It's a joint effort. But yes you have to be able to find good talent of course. That goes for free agents as well as the draft though.
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Post by SG88 on Jan 17, 2021 14:07:58 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can Justin Jefferson, DK Metcalf, Chase Claypool, and plenty of others disagree with you 100%.
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 17, 2021 14:11:22 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can Maybe he wouldn’t have to fight so hard if he was able to get a little separation....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 14:14:02 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can You mean a guy that is almost guaranteed to be on the sidelines at least 1/4th tbe year of not more? To be fair, who is coming back early and playing through injuries for the Lions in the final year of their rookie deal? We saw how they handled Sanders & Calvin Johnson Galloday played every game in 2019.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 17, 2021 14:14:14 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can Maybe he wouldn’t have to fight so hard if he was able to get a little separation.... He actually can get a bit of seperation... When he isn't battling through one of his annual multiple injuries.. People don't seem to grasp that many of these bigger guys rarely can get enough seperation so that they aren't always battling for the ball,and often are not good post catch. YAC is probably as if not more important in modern NFL than ever these days,and the mid sized or smaller guys are great at this
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 14:16:36 GMT -5
Maybe he wouldn’t have to fight so hard if he was able to get a little separation.... He actually can get a bit of seperation... When he isn't battling through one of his annual multiple injuries.. People don't seem to grasp that many of these bigger guys rarely can get enough seperation so that they aren't always battling for the ball,and often are not good post catch. YAC is probably as if not more important in modern NFL than ever these days,and the mid sized or smaller guys are great at this Again, Galloday started every game in 2019. Played in 15 games 2018. +1000 yards both years. Also, your idea of smaller wrs being better at YAC is wrong. Here's the top 20 from 2020.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 17, 2021 15:15:10 GMT -5
He actually can get a bit of seperation... When he isn't battling through one of his annual multiple injuries.. People don't seem to grasp that many of these bigger guys rarely can get enough seperation so that they aren't always battling for the ball,and often are not good post catch. YAC is probably as if not more important in modern NFL than ever these days,and the mid sized or smaller guys are great at this Again, Galloday started every game in 2019. Played in 15 games 2018. +1000 yards both years. Also, your idea of smaller wrs being better at YAC is wrong. Here's the top 20 from 2020. Smaller Under 6'2 Notice much of that list are also TEs and backs
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 15:18:01 GMT -5
Again, Galloday started every game in 2019. Played in 15 games 2018. +1000 yards both years. Also, your idea of smaller wrs being better at YAC is wrong. Here's the top 20 from 2020. Smaller Under 6'2 Notice much of that list are also TEs and backs Smaller means 6'2 & under to you? 🤔 lol.. ok btw: 11WRs 2TEs 7RBs Most of the list is WRs.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 17, 2021 17:11:27 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can You mean a guy that is almost guaranteed to be on the sidelines at least 1/4th tbe year of not more? Pass A guy that gets great seperation with a naturally accurate qb like Jones is just as helpful to a young qb Hight is overrated if tbe guy is always injured or if he is an overglorified possession reciever that will get 18 million from someone (Robinson I'm not all in on Galloday, but he’s had only had one injury marred season. Let's be fair. Barkley is a bigger risk to get injured again.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2021 22:07:47 GMT -5
Right now, our DL is a strength. Wouldn’t be a terrible thing to also turn our OL into a strength. Build a team that dominates the LOS on both sides of the ball. Concerned about heading into next season with Peart at RT after his snaps went down to nothing at the end of this season. I could be on board with WR, Pitts, CB, OT, Parsons ... will be an interesting draft That can't be right.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 17, 2021 22:30:30 GMT -5
The guys they mentioned were Cosmi Slater and the USC tackle. I don't mind a tackle but rather see them try later to get developmental kid. I do believe what they say tho is after Smith and Chase 11 might be better served grabbing CB or LB. And revisit Wr in round 2, I think Pitts who they say won't get past 6 or 7 would be a guy Joe Judge would be interested in seeing the Damage Hernandez and Gronk were able to do. Right now, our DL is a strength. Wouldn’t be a terrible thing to also turn our OL into a strength. Build a team that dominates the LOS on both sides of the ball. Concerned about heading into next season with Peart at RT after his snaps went down to nothing at the end of this season.I could be on board with WR, Pitts, CB, OT, Parsons ... will be an interesting draft I’m not. Both he and Hernandez didn’t see a lot of time after returning from COVID. Not to mention Peart was a physically inferior rookie who had more thrown on him than expected. His college coach said he would need a year in the weight room before being ready to play. I’m all for getting more OL help. I’d rather see it at G though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 9:27:11 GMT -5
The guys they mentioned were Cosmi Slater and the USC tackle. I don't mind a tackle but rather see them try later to get developmental kid. I do believe what they say tho is after Smith and Chase 11 might be better served grabbing CB or LB. And revisit Wr in round 2, I think Pitts who they say won't get past 6 or 7 would be a guy Joe Judge would be interested in seeing the Damage Hernandez and Gronk were able to do. Right now, our DL is a strength. Wouldn’t be a terrible thing to also turn our OL into a strength. Build a team that dominates the LOS on both sides of the ball. Concerned about heading into next season with Peart at RT after his snaps went down to nothing at the end of this season. I could be on board with WR, Pitts, CB, OT, Parsons ... will be an interesting draft Don't know how I would feel once they are on the clock but since they aren't close to the top this year it will be an interesting one with how they go with that 11th pick.. I'm also concerned with the oline and think they need upgrades at LG and RT. Are those players on the roster in Solder or one of the 3rd day picks from last draft are still big questions.. They gambled on Gates and it worked so maybe that can happen two years in a row but the body of work so far isn't good enough to be confident..
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 18, 2021 10:02:51 GMT -5
if my memory serves me correctly Shockey wasn't much of a blocker when he came to the Giants but he did learn to do it from Dan Campbell, but Shockey said he never liked blocking...
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Post by McCherry on Jan 18, 2021 11:20:14 GMT -5
if my memory serves me correctly Shockey wasn't much of a blocker when he came to the Giants but he did learn to do it from Dan Campbell, but Shockey said he never liked blocking... This is true as I also recall. Blocking in college football for the most part is antiquated. The game is based on offensive production. You're not going to use a TE split out wide and then spend a lot of time teaching him blocking fundamentals.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 18, 2021 13:49:47 GMT -5
if my memory serves me correctly Shockey wasn't much of a blocker when he came to the Giants but he did learn to do it from Dan Campbell, but Shockey said he never liked blocking... This is true as I also recall. Blocking in college football for the most part is antiquated. The game is based on offensive production. You're not going to use a TE split out wide and then spend a lot of time teaching him blocking fundamentals. Depends on the team. If you are a TE playing at Notre Dame your ass will know how to block. Lots of teams are like this still. Penn State is another one. If you are a TE for Oklahoma or LSU you are probably more of a receiving TE.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 19, 2021 8:19:11 GMT -5
This is true as I also recall. Blocking in college football for the most part is antiquated. The game is based on offensive production. You're not going to use a TE split out wide and then spend a lot of time teaching him blocking fundamentals. Depends on the team. If you are a TE playing at Notre Dame your ass will know how to block. Lots of teams are like this still. Penn State is another one. If you are a TE for Oklahoma or LSU you are probably more of a receiving TE. ..Iowa and Stanford as well
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Post by jimmieray on Jan 19, 2021 9:33:19 GMT -5
This is true as I also recall. Blocking in college football for the most part is antiquated. The game is based on offensive production. You're not going to use a TE split out wide and then spend a lot of time teaching him blocking fundamentals. Depends on the team. If you are a TE playing at Notre Dame your ass will know how to block. Lots of teams are like this still. Penn State is another one. If you are a TE for Oklahoma or LSU you are probably more of a receiving TE. This fellow Ruckert, from my village of Lindenhurst, has announced he's staying in college one more year - how is Ohio State known for blocking TEs?
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 24, 2021 1:41:42 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can Doesn't dude have a hip issue?? Hip problems are a YUUUUUGE red flag
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 24, 2021 11:09:15 GMT -5
Depends on the team. If you are a TE playing at Notre Dame your ass will know how to block. Lots of teams are like this still. Penn State is another one. If you are a TE for Oklahoma or LSU you are probably more of a receiving TE. This fellow Ruckert, from my village of Lindenhurst, has announced he's staying in college one more year - how is Ohio State known for blocking TEs? Don't sleep on Ferall... When Haskins was QB he was much more a recieving threat,and their HC didn't really feature the TEs in the passing game as much as Meyer did
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 24, 2021 11:09:47 GMT -5
A Rookie Receiver does nothing for Daniel Jones Development but a Veteran who fights for the ball can Doesn't dude have a hip issue?? Hip problems are a YUUUUUGE red flag Exactly
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 24, 2021 11:22:41 GMT -5
Depends on the team. If you are a TE playing at Notre Dame your ass will know how to block. Lots of teams are like this still. Penn State is another one. If you are a TE for Oklahoma or LSU you are probably more of a receiving TE. This fellow Ruckert, from my village of Lindenhurst, has announced he's staying in college one more year - how is Ohio State known for blocking TEs? Damn, I was hoping we would get him in the mid-late rounds. Well maybe he will work out for us in 2022. Love me some local talent!!
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