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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 29, 2021 10:05:01 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system? Last year with a green young guy I'm leaning GM with more input than usual from the HC(seems Judge took over having final say later in the draft) After seeing results especially later last year I'm now putting emphasis on Judge because in probably the most difficult season for such a coach to have is debut he more than proved himself... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 10:05:15 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system? HC. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 29, 2021 10:07:08 GMT -5
Which is why I can't see a logical fit for Paye (Or Brasham from Wake Forsst) He seems to like moving his linebackers inside,ouside,outside, coverage,ect I know it's a reach but Zaven Collins litterally looks like the perfect piece for this defense If we have to reach get this guy for Christ's sake I still want O in the first round and I dont see Judge going any other way. Unfortunately we can't control what the 1st 11 teams ahead of us do to script things this way... I'm in agreement with you We have options if it doesn't work out that way though and a guy line Horn or Collins are 2 of them |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:09:18 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system? Its up to the HC to make sure the GM knows the system and the type of players that fit. the GM says " hey coach what about these players. Which ones do you like for your system?" the final say is by the GM but its critically based on collaborative effort. If I was the owner I wouldnt want it any other way. |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:10:38 GMT -5
I still want O in the first round and I dont see Judge going any other way. Unfortunately we can't control what the 1st 11 teams ahead of us do to script things this way... I'm in agreement with you We have options if it doesn't work out that way though and a guy line Horn or Collins are 2 of them thats the best part is they not only have options but multiple needs with top talent at those needs available at 11. |
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Apr 29, 2021 10:10:46 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system? If I were the owner I'd be pissed off the GM and HC haven't come to an agreement on who we're drafting tonight. |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 29, 2021 10:12:04 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system? The general manager no question. His job is to construct an NFL roster, its part of his job requirements. A head coaches job has always been to coach the team. The word “collaborate” is very popular around here. And it’s true when discussing this franchise. However, at the end of the day the GM is the man who makes the final decision on what player is selected. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 29, 2021 10:14:39 GMT -5
Unfortunately we can't control what the 1st 11 teams ahead of us do to script things this way... I'm in agreement with you We have options if it doesn't work out that way though and a guy line Horn or Collins are 2 of them thats the best part is they not only have options but multiple needs with top talent at those needs available at 11. I'd rather not be at the stage of having multiple needs anymore to the point where our first round pick is the ultimate luxury BPA pick... Which would also translate we are picking after 28 for once and not with a trade back |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:15:49 GMT -5
thats the best part is they not only have options but multiple needs with top talent at those needs available at 11. I'd rather not be at the stage of having multiple needs anymore to the point where our first round pick is the ultimate luxury BPA pick... Which would also translate we are picking after 28 for once and not with a trade back but alas they are not there yet |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:17:47 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system? The general manager no question. His job is to construct an NFL roster, its part of his job requirements. A head coaches job has always been to coach the team. The word “collaborate” is very popular around here. And it’s true when discussing this franchise. However, at the end of the day the GM is the man who makes the final decision on what player is selected. yeah but his final decison shoudl be based on a heavy collaberation with the HC, DC and OC along with the scouts. I make decisions at my job but its based on lots of things especially input form others that know what is needed. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 29, 2021 10:20:04 GMT -5
The general manager no question. His job is to construct an NFL roster, its part of his job requirements. A head coaches job has always been to coach the team. The word “collaborate” is very popular around here. And it’s true when discussing this franchise. However, at the end of the day the GM is the man who makes the final decision on what player is selected. yeah but his final decison shoudl be based on a heavy collaberation with the HC, DC and OC along with the scouts. I make decisions at my job but its based on lots of things especially input form others that know what is needed. My opinion is the HC gets a list of guys from his OC and DC that they would lvoe for their respective systems. Then the HC analyzes these guys and narrows it down to a list of 5. Then hands that list to the GM who ranks those 5 guys (or 11 in this case so there is no "oh shit they are all gone" moments) and goes from there. The HC would name a few guys that he is ALL IN on. If they are there, take them. Outside of those, the GM has the chance to trade the pick away based the returns received. |
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 29, 2021 10:22:04 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system? Its up to the HC to make sure the GM knows the system and the type of players that fit. the GM says " hey coach what about these players. Which ones do you like for your system?" the final say is by the GM but its critically based on collaborative effort. If I was the owner I wouldnt want it any other way. Joe: "I don't want player X....I want player Y"
Dave: " Too bad....you're getting player X"
Really?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 29, 2021 10:24:19 GMT -5
Its up to the HC to make sure the GM knows the system and the type of players that fit. the GM says " hey coach what about these players. Which ones do you like for your system?" the final say is by the GM but its critically based on collaborative effort. If I was the owner I wouldnt want it any other way. Joe: "I don't want player X....I want player Y"
Dave: " Too bad....you're getting player X"
Really?
I think thats how we ended up with Barkley at 2. |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:25:05 GMT -5
Its up to the HC to make sure the GM knows the system and the type of players that fit. the GM says " hey coach what about these players. Which ones do you like for your system?" the final say is by the GM but its critically based on collaborative effort. If I was the owner I wouldnt want it any other way. Joe: "I don't want player X....I want player Y"
Dave: " Too bad....you're getting player X"
Really?
nope that is not the way it works at all. DG will get the players Judge wants combined with value and level of need |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 29, 2021 10:25:40 GMT -5
The general manager no question. His job is to construct an NFL roster, its part of his job requirements. A head coaches job has always been to coach the team. The word “collaborate” is very popular around here. And it’s true when discussing this franchise. However, at the end of the day the GM is the man who makes the final decision on what player is selected. yeah but his final decison shoudl be based on a heavy collaberation with the HC, DC and OC along with the scouts. I make decisions at my job but its based on lots of things especially input form others that know what is needed. If I’m constructing a team. I would take inputs from all my staff. What do you look for in a player? What do you not like about a player? Does this player fit your system? Are you accepting to players who are deemed questionable? Once I gather all that information, I show them multiple scenarios at our pick. And I see what they all feel great with. I want them to love the player, not like. That’s settling. After all of that, I hit the film room for hours and see what players I like the most. And there, you have your big board. Now, I have so many options that I won’t be caught off guard when our number is coming up. Then, I make my pick. With all the information I gathered, it’s on me now. Hence, why I’m the general manager of the franchise. If they didn’t want me to be the final decision, what the hell did I take the job for? To be a puppet? |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:27:54 GMT -5
yeah but his final decison shoudl be based on a heavy collaberation with the HC, DC and OC along with the scouts. I make decisions at my job but its based on lots of things especially input form others that know what is needed. If I’m constructing a team. I would take inputs from all my colleagues. What do you look for in a player? What do you not like about a player? Does this player fit your system? Are you accepting to players who are deemed questionable? Once I gather all that information, I show them multiple scenarios at our pick. And I see what they all feel great with. I want them to love the player, not like. That’s settling. After all of that, I hit the film room for hours and see what players I like the most. And there, you have your big board. Now, I have so many options that I won’t be caught off guard when our number is coming up. Then, I make my pick. With all the information I gathered, it’s on me now. Hence, why I’m the general manager of the franchise. If they didn’t want me to be the final decision, what the hell did I take the job for? To be a puppet? a pick based on many factors and input as you said. I will add in one more step. The board does not get set up by the GM alone in a room. The board gets set up by the group. |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 29, 2021 10:32:55 GMT -5
If I’m constructing a team. I would take inputs from all my colleagues. What do you look for in a player? What do you not like about a player? Does this player fit your system? Are you accepting to players who are deemed questionable? Once I gather all that information, I show them multiple scenarios at our pick. And I see what they all feel great with. I want them to love the player, not like. That’s settling. After all of that, I hit the film room for hours and see what players I like the most. And there, you have your big board. Now, I have so many options that I won’t be caught off guard when our number is coming up. Then, I make my pick. With all the information I gathered, it’s on me now. Hence, why I’m the general manager of the franchise. If they didn’t want me to be the final decision, what the hell did I take the job for? To be a puppet? a pick based on many factors and input as you said. I will add in one more step. The board does not get set up by the GM alone in a room. The board gets set up by the group. Of course. But, that goes without saying. Point is, the general manager should have final say. When you have too many chefs in a kitchen, the food suffers. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 29, 2021 10:33:29 GMT -5
If you guys were the owner, who makes the final call for you on the pick (forget about the names Gettleman and Judge for a second)? The GM whose job it is to make the pick or the HC who knows what is best for his system?
Giants draft board is created by personnel department with input from coaching staff.
HC states player he wants.
If HC's player matches positional value, they draft the HC's player.
If the value doesn't match, discussion ensues and GM has final say.
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Post by ratbastich on Apr 29, 2021 10:34:02 GMT -5
Joe: "I don't want player X....I want player Y"
Dave: " Too bad....you're getting player X"
Really?
nope that is not the way it works at all. DG will get the players Judge wants combined with value and level of need That means the scouts are going to have to be on point looking for specific types of players. I wonder how many times a draft fails due to the scout level of misjudging talent based on what coaches are looking for. |
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 29, 2021 10:38:54 GMT -5
I know it was you, Chris. You broke my heart. The sad thing is, everyone is going to take this article as gospel because PK wrote it and if we take Parsons (which we absolutely should IF he falls to us, because he is a beast) it will be "Gettys pick" and everyone will hate it. Parsons at least has more vetted inside info from our coaching staff knowing this guy and Judge being there personally.. I really think Judge likes this guy....I think he has him behind Smith for his preferred pick as far as the player goes, I'll be excited to see what Parsons can do, I think if he has truly matured and keeps his nose clean, he will be a dominant defensive player. I will have lots of trepidations for his first few years though until he proves his behavior, should he be our pick. |
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Post by vinnie on Apr 29, 2021 10:41:05 GMT -5
If there is an offensive and defensive player ranked relatively close together, I would think DG would be pushing for the offensive player simply to help Jones in every way possible. DG knows that a large part of his overall success as GM will be determined on how well DJ does and not only are there still questions all over the O line but I’m not sure Barkley and Galloday will take that offense from 31st to top 10 or 15, even taking into consideration the O line has a little more experience and it will be JG’s second year.
I think Gettleman would do everything he can to help Jones succeed in every way possible because so far he’s failed miserably at doing that and it reflects badly on on him. Whether that means taking another O lineman or WR in the first, I couldn’t tell you but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s his mindset.
Having said that, this is the same GM that prioritized fixing the O line and used the 2nd overall pick on a RB. Same guy who reached for a QB with the 6th overall pick and still had no O line in place, took 3 years to add a true #1 WR and possibly picked the worst of the 4 LT’s last year when he had his choice of the litter. Oh, and Hernandez hasn’t delivered as he was supposed to and we have the worst graded pass blocking guard along with an unknown at the other guard position.
As much as I would like to see us draft a defenseman, I just don’t see the value (unless Horn, Surtain or Parsons) and our offense still has a lot to be desired whereas Smith, Waddle, Slater could improve the offense drastically and immediately.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:43:51 GMT -5
nope that is not the way it works at all. DG will get the players Judge wants combined with value and level of need That means the scouts are going to have to be on point looking for specific types of players. I wonder how many times a draft fails due to the scout level of misjudging talent based on what coaches are looking for. It happens i am sure. Thats why they all need to be in the same page. With that said the scout checks out a player and sends his analysis to the HC and or GM along with film. |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 10:46:47 GMT -5
If there is an offensive and defensive player ranked relatively close together, I would think DG would be pushing for the offensive player simply to help Jones in every way possible. and thats the bottom line. every potential franchise QB needs all the help they can get. That has to be the focus and if it isnt then the QB will likely fail as will the offense |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 29, 2021 10:54:59 GMT -5
If there is an offensive and defensive player ranked relatively close together, I would think DG would be pushing for the offensive player simply to help Jones in every way possible. and thats the bottom line. every potential franchise QB needs all the help they can get. That has to be the focus and if it isnt then the QB will likely fail as will the offense This whole offseason has been to help Jones. Signing Golladay, Rudolph, Ross, Booker, two offensive lineman, they even picked up a young hot shot assistant in Russ Callaway. This offseason should be called “In Jones we must help.” |
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 29, 2021 10:59:44 GMT -5
Which is why I can't see a logical fit for Paye (Or Brasham from Wake Forsst) He seems to like moving his linebackers inside,ouside,outside, coverage,ect I know it's a reach but Zaven Collins litterally looks like the perfect piece for this defense If we have to reach get this guy for Christ's sake I still want O in the first round and I dont see Judge going any other way. I would think Gettleman would be the one pushing offense, as he is tied to Jones success and has been under fire for how he's handled the line and receivers. The defense is already looking like it will be quite adequate, no single LBer is going to make it significantly better or make up for an offense that isn't significantly improved. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 11:01:19 GMT -5
If there is an offensive and defensive player ranked relatively close together, I would think DG would be pushing for the offensive player simply to help Jones in every way possible. DG knows that a large part of his overall success as GM will be determined on how well DJ does and not only are there still questions all over the O line but I’m not sure Barkley and Galloday will take that offense from 31st to top 10 or 15, even taking into consideration the O line has a little more experience and it will be JG’s second year. I think Gettleman would do everything he can to help Jones succeed in every way possible because so far he’s failed miserably at doing that and it reflects badly on on him. Whether that means taking another O lineman or WR in the first, I couldn’t tell you but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s his mindset. Having said that, this is the same GM that prioritized fixing the O line and used the 2nd overall pick on a RB. Same guy who reached for a QB with the 6th overall pick and still had no O line in place, took 3 years to add a true #1 WR and possibly picked the worst of the 4 LT’s last year when he had his choice of the litter. Oh, and Hernandez hasn’t delivered as he was supposed to and we have the worst graded pass blocking guard along with an unknown at the other guard position. As much as I would like to see us draft a defenseman, I just don’t see the value (unless Horn, Surtain or Parsons) and our offense still has a lot to be desired whereas Smith, Waddle, Slater could improve the offense drastically and immediately.This is where I'm at also although I was told Parsons is the next LT which would make him the most valuable.. |
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 29, 2021 11:01:29 GMT -5
If there is an offensive and defensive player ranked relatively close together, I would think DG would be pushing for the offensive player simply to help Jones in every way possible. DG knows that a large part of his overall success as GM will be determined on how well DJ does and not only are there still questions all over the O line but I’m not sure Barkley and Galloday will take that offense from 31st to top 10 or 15, even taking into consideration the O line has a little more experience and it will be JG’s second year. I think Gettleman would do everything he can to help Jones succeed in every way possible because so far he’s failed miserably at doing that and it reflects badly on on him. Whether that means taking another O lineman or WR in the first, I couldn’t tell you but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s his mindset. Having said that, this is the same GM that prioritized fixing the O line and used the 2nd overall pick on a RB. Same guy who reached for a QB with the 6th overall pick and still had no O line in place, took 3 years to add a true #1 WR and possibly picked the worst of the 4 LT’s last year when he had his choice of the litter. Oh, and Hernandez hasn’t delivered as he was supposed to and we have the worst graded pass blocking guard along with an unknown at the other guard position. As much as I would like to see us draft a defenseman, I just don’t see the value (unless Horn, Surtain or Parsons) and our offense still has a lot to be desired whereas Smith, Waddle, Slater could improve the offense drastically and immediately. Why wouldnt JJ have the same motivation? Anyone who knows anything about the Giants knows the O needs more help than the D. Having said that, my personal opinion is you go for BPA in the first round, not for need. I believe all the spending in FA this year was partly to set them up to allow for this. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 29, 2021 11:03:46 GMT -5
I still want O in the first round and I dont see Judge going any other way. I would think Gettleman would be the one pushing offense, as he is tied to Jones success and has been under fire for how he's handled the line and receivers. The defense is already looking like it will be quite adequate, no single LBer is going to make it significantly better or make up for an offense that isn't significantly improved. ... no single player will make any unit significantly better. LB, OL or WR. That said, if Parsons turns out to be a Khalil Mack type impact, our defense could be tops in the league. If Smith or Waddle turn into Tyreek Hill or Odell, we could still struggle getting him the ball due to our OL. And Im not arguing for or against right now, I just want them to HIT the pick. They have to for us to turn this damn thing around. |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 11:07:18 GMT -5
and thats the bottom line. every potential franchise QB needs all the help they can get. That has to be the focus and if it isnt then the QB will likely fail as will the offense This whole offseason has been to help Jones. Signing Golladay, Rudolph, Ross, Booker, two offensive lineman, they even picked up a young hot shot assistant in Russ Callaway. This offseason should be called “In Jones we must help.” or maybe they should have done a better job of it since 2019. Then this off season wouldn't have to be the mad rush that it is |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 11:10:12 GMT -5
If there is an offensive and defensive player ranked relatively close together, I would think DG would be pushing for the offensive player simply to help Jones in every way possible. DG knows that a large part of his overall success as GM will be determined on how well DJ does and not only are there still questions all over the O line but I’m not sure Barkley and Galloday will take that offense from 31st to top 10 or 15, even taking into consideration the O line has a little more experience and it will be JG’s second year. I think Gettleman would do everything he can to help Jones succeed in every way possible because so far he’s failed miserably at doing that and it reflects badly on on him. Whether that means taking another O lineman or WR in the first, I couldn’t tell you but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s his mindset. Having said that, this is the same GM that prioritized fixing the O line and used the 2nd overall pick on a RB. Same guy who reached for a QB with the 6th overall pick and still had no O line in place, took 3 years to add a true #1 WR and possibly picked the worst of the 4 LT’s last year when he had his choice of the litter. Oh, and Hernandez hasn’t delivered as he was supposed to and we have the worst graded pass blocking guard along with an unknown at the other guard position. As much as I would like to see us draft a defenseman, I just don’t see the value (unless Horn, Surtain or Parsons) and our offense still has a lot to be desired whereas Smith, Waddle, Slater could improve the offense drastically and immediately. Why wouldnt JJ have the same motivation? Anyone who knows anything about the Giants knows the O needs more help than the D. Having said that, my personal opinion is you go for BPA in the first round, not for need. I believe all the spending in FA this year was partly to set them up to allow for this. fortunately this draft its seems they can possibly do both. BPA and need combined. |
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