gumby
Special Teams
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by gumby on Oct 22, 2023 18:27:12 GMT -5
Someone, anyone, make me the point that we are better with DJ than Taylor starting. Go With what we have now? It's kinda hard to do. But if we improve our team? I think DJ will do much better. As much of rut DJ seems have gotten with his accuracy recently, he has shown is is an accurate QB. I haven't given up on him yet in hopes that he hasn't been David Carr'd.
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Oct 22, 2023 18:32:13 GMT -5
I think that there are very few QBs in the league that would beat Dallas, SF, and Miami without an Oline and without Barkley for 2 of those games. If they give Jones an average Oline he would put up better numbers with these new receivers. He hasn’t had his 2 best offensive players. They can win with him if they get average Oline play and Barkley. So if Taylor is given an average OL he wouldn't put up better numbers with these new receivers? Pretty sure the Giants can win with Taylor much the same.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2023 18:32:39 GMT -5
Someone, anyone, make me the point that we are better with DJ than Taylor starting. Go I think the Giants beat Washington today with either QB.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Oct 22, 2023 18:34:44 GMT -5
Someone, anyone, make me the point that we are better with DJ than Taylor starting. Go I think the Giants beat Washington today with either QB. Correct
|
|
|
Post by Analyst on Oct 22, 2023 18:44:35 GMT -5
Someone, anyone, make me the point that we are better with DJ than Taylor starting. Go I think the Giants beat Washington today with either QB. That doesnt make a point though. I saw several plays where I thought DJ gets sacked that TT gets out of today. Is it not glaring that Taylor is much better in the pocket than DJ? This OL is terrible for TT as well. Its awful. This should have been the 2nd win in a row for him.
|
|
|
Post by JoeBigBlue on Oct 22, 2023 18:51:29 GMT -5
I think the Giants beat Washington today with either QB. That doesnt make a point though. I saw several plays where I thought DJ gets sacked that TT gets out of today. Is it not glaring that Taylor is much better in the pocket than DJ? This OL is terrible for TT as well. Its awful. This should have been the 2nd win in a row for him. Not defending Jones, at all, but he's had 5 years of sacks, he's shell shocked. Tyrod will soon see what this feels like. He can't escape the pocket forever.
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Oct 22, 2023 18:51:46 GMT -5
Someone, anyone, make me the point that we are better with DJ than Taylor starting. Go I think the Giants beat Washington today with either QB. Maybe, maybe not. That's guesswork.
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Oct 22, 2023 18:56:50 GMT -5
That doesnt make a point though. I saw several plays where I thought DJ gets sacked that TT gets out of today. Is it not glaring that Taylor is much better in the pocket than DJ? This OL is terrible for TT as well. Its awful. This should have been the 2nd win in a row for him. Not defending Jones, at all, but he's had 5 years of sacks, he's shell shocked. Tyrod will soon see what this feels like. He can't escape the pocket forever. I have to say that the "shell shocked" and "he's been Carr'd" narrative is exhausting. For starter's you don't know if Jones is shell shocked. It seems like it is a fan-generated defense for him. Secondly if he is that mentally fragile playing in the big boy league, then he's not a franchise QB and certainly not worth the investment.
|
|
|
Post by Analyst on Oct 22, 2023 18:58:16 GMT -5
That doesnt make a point though. I saw several plays where I thought DJ gets sacked that TT gets out of today. Is it not glaring that Taylor is much better in the pocket than DJ? This OL is terrible for TT as well. Its awful. This should have been the 2nd win in a row for him. Not defending Jones, at all, but he's had 5 years of sacks, he's shell shocked. Tyrod will soon see what this feels like. He can't escape the pocket forever. That's a terrible argument IMO. Has nothing to do with the sacks. He went through it at Duke too. He never should have been picked where he was. Taylor doesn't get sacked on plays where DJ does. Its QB intelligence.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2023 18:59:54 GMT -5
I think the Giants beat Washington today with either QB. That doesnt make a point though. I saw several plays where I thought DJ gets sacked that TT gets out of today. Is it not glaring that Taylor is much better in the pocket than DJ? This OL is terrible for TT as well. Its awful. This should have been the 2nd win in a row for him. I saw several plays today where Taylor looked just like DJ in the pocket. And he would probably be 2-0 if he didn't blow it by calling a run play at the end of the 1st half last week.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2023 19:05:37 GMT -5
I think the Giants beat Washington today with either QB. Maybe, maybe not. That's guesswork. You call also say that Jones would've never called the audible in that spot. Like many have said, it's apples and oranges with these QB's.
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Oct 22, 2023 19:09:17 GMT -5
Maybe, maybe not. That's guesswork. You call also say that Jones would've never called the audible in that spot. Like many have said, it's apples and oranges with these QB's. You don’t know that. Again it’s guesswork. Because it didn’t happen and it’s just a hypothetical. For all we know Jones would have run the pass play, first read would have covered, he would have panicked, taken off running (with nowhere to go), lower his head against either a DT or safety, gained nothing and concussed himself.
|
|
|
Post by nygfanstrick on Oct 22, 2023 19:11:23 GMT -5
|
|
Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,271
|
Post by Modog on Oct 22, 2023 19:13:15 GMT -5
You call also say that Jones would've never called the audible in that spot. Like many have said, it's apples and oranges with these QB's. You don’t know that. Again it’s guesswork. Because it didn’t happen and it’s just a hypothetical. For all we know Jones would have run the pass play, first read would have covered, he would have panicked, taken off running (with nowhere to go), lower his head against either a DT or safety, gained nothing and concussed himself. Thats exactly what would have happened had DJ been in that scenario. He would have refused to pass and taken off. That's one thing I can give credit to DJ, he runs hard and puts his body on the line. In fact that's how he got his neck screwed up in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2023 19:34:04 GMT -5
You call also say that Jones would've never called the audible in that spot. Like many have said, it's apples and oranges with these QB's. You don’t know that. Again it’s guesswork. Because it didn’t happen and it’s just a hypothetical. For all we know Jones would have run the pass play, first read would have covered, he would have panicked, taken off running (with nowhere to go), lower his head against either a DT or safety, gained nothing and concussed himself. That was clearly the error of a backup QB who just didn't have the reps to understand the situation. Jones is many things, he's not dumb. Maybe he doesn't make some of the other plays Taylor made. Or maybe he does. Maybe we beat the Bills, maybe we don't. You're right it's guesswork, which tells you how little disparity there is between them. I wish that wasn't the case.
|
|
|
Post by Analyst on Oct 22, 2023 19:46:14 GMT -5
That doesnt make a point though. I saw several plays where I thought DJ gets sacked that TT gets out of today. Is it not glaring that Taylor is much better in the pocket than DJ? This OL is terrible for TT as well. Its awful. This should have been the 2nd win in a row for him. I saw several plays today where Taylor looked just like DJ in the pocket. And he would probably be 2-0 if he didn't blow it by calling a run play at the end of the 1st half last week. Right, it was a dumb call no doubt. And DJ would most likely be 0-2. He can not process in the pocket quick enough. This is the perfect scenario where you can decipher the difference. TT is not a great QB. He isn't the future. But he is much better in the pocket than DJ and it jumps off the page.
|
|
miggs
Starter
Posts: 4,640
|
Post by miggs on Oct 22, 2023 19:51:48 GMT -5
Posters claiming Taylor is better is hilarious.
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Oct 22, 2023 19:56:51 GMT -5
Posters claiming Taylor is better is hilarious. But nowhere near as hilarious as calling Jones “Montana.”
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Oct 22, 2023 19:58:54 GMT -5
Posters claiming Taylor is better is hilarious. Says the guy who used Jones and Joe Montana in the same sentence 😄
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Oct 22, 2023 20:01:33 GMT -5
Posters claiming Taylor is better is hilarious. But nowhere near as hilarious as calling Jones “Montana.” "Jones could be right there with Montana if he had a good O-Line." Lmfao!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Oct 22, 2023 20:24:21 GMT -5
Posters claiming Taylor is better is hilarious. Not "better". Just better in the pocket.
|
|
Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,271
|
Post by Modog on Oct 22, 2023 20:27:39 GMT -5
Posters claiming Taylor is better is hilarious. Not "better". Just better in the pocket. Better in the pocket makes him better qb. What are we comparing Rbs?
|
|
|
Post by krappdetector on Oct 22, 2023 20:39:04 GMT -5
Maybe, maybe not. That's guesswork. You call also say that Jones would've never called the audible in that spot. Like many have said, it's apples and oranges with these QB's. You can also say that Jones would've never gotten us TO that spot. PS. Right now I'm watching Hurts extending plays and making passes that Jones has never made.. even in his prime. ... whichever game you think that was.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Oct 22, 2023 20:58:21 GMT -5
Not "better". Just better in the pocket. Better in the pocket makes him better qb. What are we comparing Rbs? Not always..... Jones throws it better....runs better...is bigger and stronger. But his pocket awareness is way below NFL standards for starting QB's. It's his achilles heal. And it may prevent him from being any better than a good backup.
|
|
|
Post by Analyst on Oct 23, 2023 5:14:45 GMT -5
"The Giants certainly looked better offensively with Taylor than they did with Jones on Sunday, even if they only scored 14 points. They actually had a first half offensive touchdown -- their first of the season -- and not one but two! Taylor led the Giants offense to 356 yards, their highest total in a game since Week 2.
In Taylor's two starts, the Giants have averaged 336.5 yards per game. In Jones' five starts, the Giants offense has only 255.8 yards per game. The Giants offense has averaged only 12.4 points in Jones' starts and 11.5 in Taylor's starts, yet the offense has moved more fluently with Taylor. The offensive line has only allowed six sacks in Taylor's two starts!
New York isn't a good football team, but they have a better chance to win with Taylor right now than Jones."
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 23, 2023 7:47:20 GMT -5
right now I have more confidence in Taylor, and I said this one year ago..
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Oct 23, 2023 8:02:05 GMT -5
"The Giants certainly looked better offensively with Taylor than they did with Jones on Sunday, even if they only scored 14 points. They actually had a first half offensive touchdown -- their first of the season -- and not one but two! Taylor led the Giants offense to 356 yards, their highest total in a game since Week 2.
In Taylor's two starts, the Giants have averaged 336.5 yards per game. In Jones' five starts, the Giants offense has only 255.8 yards per game. The Giants offense has averaged only 12.4 points in Jones' starts and 11.5 in Taylor's starts, yet the offense has moved more fluently with Taylor. The offensive line has only allowed six sacks in Taylor's two starts!
New York isn't a good football team, but they have a better chance to win with Taylor right now than Jones." Whoever wrote that did lazy research. The offense is averaging 11 points per game in Jones’ starts. The offense is averaging 11.5 points per game in Taylor’ starts. This person who wrote that included the defensive pick-6 in Jones’ offensive scoring. Which obviously is not accurate.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 23, 2023 8:09:47 GMT -5
I know its not the popular opinion on this board but after the length of time Jones has been the starter, what we see is what we've got, not a top tier QB. He works and tries hard but I don't think he's going to get to the level we need him to..
|
|
|
Post by OrangeGiant on Oct 23, 2023 8:10:00 GMT -5
I think the point is that there is a guy playing making significantly less than DJ and the play of the offense hasn't declined at all, it arguably looks better even if the point differential isn't that much.
When a starting QB gets hurt and the back up comes in, typically it affects the offense negatively. Often the playbook is much smaller for the backup due to his limitations, there is a reason he is the backup.
What we are seeing now is that the offense has actually opened up MORE with Tyrod playing, not less. More downfield throws and taking shots. The offense has been more aggressive...
Anybody who doesn't see this isn't watching or is trying to pretend it isn't happening lol.
|
|
|
Post by Analyst on Oct 23, 2023 8:32:22 GMT -5
"The Giants certainly looked better offensively with Taylor than they did with Jones on Sunday, even if they only scored 14 points. They actually had a first half offensive touchdown -- their first of the season -- and not one but two! Taylor led the Giants offense to 356 yards, their highest total in a game since Week 2.
In Taylor's two starts, the Giants have averaged 336.5 yards per game. In Jones' five starts, the Giants offense has only 255.8 yards per game. The Giants offense has averaged only 12.4 points in Jones' starts and 11.5 in Taylor's starts, yet the offense has moved more fluently with Taylor. The offensive line has only allowed six sacks in Taylor's two starts!
New York isn't a good football team, but they have a better chance to win with Taylor right now than Jones." Whoever wrote that did lazy research. The offense is averaging 11 points per game in Jones’ starts. The offense is averaging 11.5 points per game in Taylor’ starts. This person who wrote that included the defensive pick-6 in Jones’ offensive scoring. Which obviously is not accurate. I thought I linked it, but it was a CBS Sports article. Yeah, they should not include the pick 6 points obviously.
|
|