|
Post by Jomo on Mar 18, 2024 10:07:18 GMT -5
Feel good personal stories mean nothing on Sundays. All that matters is production and he was very unproductive for us given the size of his contract and impact on our cap.
|
|
|
Post by Bigjeep on Mar 18, 2024 10:14:42 GMT -5
Feel good personal stories mean nothing on Sundays. All that matters is production and he was very unproductive for us given the size of his contract and impact on our cap. "Giants general manager Joe Schoen last offseason traded a third-round draft pick to the Raiders for Waller. But largely because of a hamstring injury (which also was an issue for him in 2022), Waller's debut season with the Giants was a failure." What a waste of a third round pick!
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Mar 18, 2024 10:16:45 GMT -5
Feel good personal stories mean nothing on Sundays. All that matters is production and he was very unproductive for us given the size of his contract and impact on our cap. "Giants general manager Joe Schoen last offseason traded a third-round draft pick to the Raiders for Waller. But largely because of a hamstring injury (which also was an issue for him in 2022), Waller's debut season with the Giants was a failure." What a waste of a third round pick! .....and cap space that could have brought us a starting OG.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 18, 2024 11:06:25 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again.
I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Mar 18, 2024 11:17:44 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again. I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers. IMO, the Giants got hoodwinked into thinking that they were a few players away from contending for a Super Bowl. Trading for Waller is the type of move that a team who's close does. Unfortunately for us, we found out very quickly that we nowhere near being a Super Bowl caliber team.
|
|
|
Post by Nick6475 on Mar 18, 2024 11:20:43 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again. I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers. Waller isn't a "square peg in a round hole", he just can't stay healthy. When he was healthy he was productive. He took a shot on him to try and get Jones an offensive weapon because that year there was no WRs worth signing.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 11:21:35 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again. I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers. Waller isn't a "square peg in a round hole", he just can't stay healthy. When he was healthy he was productive. He took a shot on him to try and get Jones an offensive weapon because that year there was no WRs worth signing. I don't have a problem with it, players understand what it takes to get through an NFL season. Brady retired then unretired. Nobody questioned his commitment. Waller was the most productive receiver on a per-game basis. Health is my only concern. He just needs to make up his mind one way or the other.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Mar 18, 2024 11:32:45 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again. I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers. Waller isn't a "square peg in a round hole", he just can't stay healthy. When he was healthy he was productive. He took a shot on him to try and get Jones an offensive weapon because that year there was no WRs worth signing. I learned from the press after our trade for Waller that he was a top 3 TE when healthy. It did seem to make sense given the lack of weapons we had on O.
He just didn't materialize as expected.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Mar 18, 2024 11:36:07 GMT -5
Waller isn't a "square peg in a round hole", he just can't stay healthy. When he was healthy he was productive. He took a shot on him to try and get Jones an offensive weapon because that year there was no WRs worth signing. I learned from the press after our trade for Waller that he was a top 3 TE when healthy. It did seem to make sense given the lack of weapons we had on O.
He just didn't materialize as expected.
I think he is the highest paid TE in terms of average annual salary. 17 mill a year.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 11:38:35 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again. I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers. IMO, the Giants got hoodwinked into thinking that they were a few players away from contending for a Super Bowl. Trading for Waller is the type of move that a team who's close does. Unfortunately for us, we found out very quickly that we nowhere near being a Super Bowl caliber team. Who ever mentioned the word Superbowl in association with the Giants last year?
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Mar 18, 2024 13:01:57 GMT -5
I learned from the press after our trade for Waller that he was a top 3 TE when healthy. It did seem to make sense given the lack of weapons we had on O.
He just didn't materialize as expected.
I think he is the highest paid TE in terms of average annual salary. 17 mill a year. Which serves to raise expectations.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 18, 2024 13:02:30 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again. I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers. IMO, the Giants got hoodwinked into thinking that they were a few players away from contending for a Super Bowl. Trading for Waller is the type of move that a team who's close does. Unfortunately for us, we found out very quickly that we nowhere near being a Super Bowl caliber team. Yup. It was gross miscalculation by Schoen, Waller should have been a luxury pick, which is a luxury the Giants couldn’t afford. Not nearly on the same level as Barkley but the mindset was the same as DG drafting Barkley, he thought we were a few players away when Ray Charles could see how bad the roster was. That 3rd round pick, and his salary, would have been much better used towards the O line.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 18, 2024 13:05:56 GMT -5
IMO, the Giants got hoodwinked into thinking that they were a few players away from contending for a Super Bowl. Trading for Waller is the type of move that a team who's close does. Unfortunately for us, we found out very quickly that we nowhere near being a Super Bowl caliber team. Who ever mentioned the word Superbowl in association with the Giants last year? No one, but that’s the type of move a team a few players away from contending for the Super Bowl makes, not a team that beat only one team by double digits and lucked into the majority of their wins regardless of beating the worst defense in the league in the playoffs. It was a complete waste of a draft pick and money.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 18, 2024 13:09:59 GMT -5
Hated it since day 1 and have never backed off, Schoen’s worst contract other than DJ but I understand why he did that. Waller made zero sense for where this team was at. It pisses me off more that he didn’t just admit he was wrong and move on, instead he doubled down on his colossal mistake and recently said he would do it again. I have more respect for a GM, like Lynch, who admits they made a mistake, moves on, and takes corrective action instead of continuing to try and fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. See Erek Flowers. Waller isn't a "square peg in a round hole", he just can't stay healthy. When he was healthy he was productive. He took a shot on him to try and get Jones an offensive weapon because that year there was no WRs worth signing. Whatever, I’m sleep deprived and delirious, need to take a nap. He couldn’t stay healthy which was clear as day before they signed him, he was on the wrong side of 30, and he really only had a 2 good seasons (2019, 2020) out of 7. He was high risk, low reward.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 14:36:43 GMT -5
Waller isn't a "square peg in a round hole", he just can't stay healthy. When he was healthy he was productive. He took a shot on him to try and get Jones an offensive weapon because that year there was no WRs worth signing. I learned from the press after our trade for Waller that he was a top 3 TE when healthy. It did seem to make sense given the lack of weapons we had on O.
He just didn't materialize as expected.
Waller was leading the league in yardage for TE's when he was injured, so I don't know where the idea he wasn't productive came from. He missed time, so did a lot of players last year. We'll just have to see where this goes from here.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 14:52:36 GMT -5
Who ever mentioned the word Superbowl in association with the Giants last year? No one, but that’s the type of move a team a few players away from contending for the Super Bowl makes, not a team that beat only one team by double digits and lucked into the majority of their wins regardless of beating the worst defense in the league in the playoffs. It was a complete waste of a draft pick and money. I don't agree. I think we all acknowledge how weak our WR's were coming off 2022. We just invested heavy in our QB, we needed a playmaker, there were no options for a WR in free agency. Waller was available. If not for the missed games, he would've finished statistically among the top TE's in football. It was a worthwhile risk in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Mar 18, 2024 15:35:40 GMT -5
I learned from the press after our trade for Waller that he was a top 3 TE when healthy. It did seem to make sense given the lack of weapons we had on O.
He just didn't materialize as expected.
Waller was leading the league in yardage for TE's when he was injured, so I don't know where the idea he wasn't productive came from. He missed time, so did a lot of players last year. We'll just have to see where this goes from here. I know you've had his back, and stated his numbers as being pretty good. I just expected more from the guy based on the talk of him among the best when healthy. I'd be lying if I said he impressed me at any point last year.
|
|
|
Post by inthezone on Mar 18, 2024 15:51:59 GMT -5
Waller was leading the league in yardage for TE's when he was injured, so I don't know where the idea he wasn't productive came from. He missed time, so did a lot of players last year. We'll just have to see where this goes from here. I know you've had his back, and stated his numbers as being pretty good. I just expected more from the guy based on the talk of him among the best when healthy. I'd be lying if I said he impressed me at any point last year. Waller didn't impress me either when he was on the field which tells me that TEs aren't much for getting good yardage numbers.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 18, 2024 15:52:25 GMT -5
No one, but that’s the type of move a team a few players away from contending for the Super Bowl makes, not a team that beat only one team by double digits and lucked into the majority of their wins regardless of beating the worst defense in the league in the playoffs. It was a complete waste of a draft pick and money. I don't agree. I think we all acknowledge how weak our WR's were coming off 2022. We just invested heavy in our QB, we needed a playmaker, there were no options for a WR in free agency. Waller was available. If not for the missed games, he would've finished statistically among the top TE's in football. It was a worthwhile risk in my opinion. For a team that was in a clear rebuild, a 30 year old who had two good seasons out of the past 7, and had only played one full season in who knows how long, a 3rd round pick along with his salary could have gone a long way to fixing our O line for the future. Waller was nothing but lipstick on a pig and a high gamble that he could even play a full season. Not to mention, a better O line would have made all our other WR’s, QB, and Barkley, that much better in the long term. We would have been lucky if Waller was here for more than 1-2 years and stayed healthy both years, now he’s bending the Giants over by not making a decision. That’s cool though Mike, although I don’t always agree with your opinion (but for some odd reason over the past 6 months I’ve agreed with a lot of what you have said which makes me wonder, lol) I respect it, unlike Mendy, Miggs, and a few other trolls on this site.
|
|
|
Post by inthezone on Mar 18, 2024 15:56:30 GMT -5
I don't agree. I think we all acknowledge how weak our WR's were coming off 2022. We just invested heavy in our QB, we needed a playmaker, there were no options for a WR in free agency. Waller was available. If not for the missed games, he would've finished statistically among the top TE's in football. It was a worthwhile risk in my opinion. For a team that was in a clear rebuild, a 30 year old who had two good seasons out of the past 7, and had only played one full season in who knows how long, a 3rd round pick along with his salary could have gone a long way to fixing our O line for the future. Waller was nothing but lipstick on a pig and a high gamble that he could even play a full season. Not to mention, a better O line would have made all our other WR’s, QB, and Barkley, that much better in the long term. We would have been lucky if Waller was here for more than 1-2 years and stayed healthy both years, now he’s bending the Giants over by not making a decision. That’s cool though Mike, although I don’t always agree with your opinion (but for some odd reason over the past 6 months I’ve agreed with a lot of what you have said which makes me wonder, lol) I respect it, unlike Mendy, Miggs, and a few other trolls on this site. My issue with the building of the team last season was the lack of olinemen they brought in and like you said the 3rd along with the contract certainly cost the Giants an opportunity to get a good RT.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 16:10:35 GMT -5
Waller was leading the league in yardage for TE's when he was injured, so I don't know where the idea he wasn't productive came from. He missed time, so did a lot of players last year. We'll just have to see where this goes from here. I know you've had his back, and stated his numbers as being pretty good. I just expected more from the guy based on the talk of him among the best when healthy. I'd be lying if I said he impressed me at any point last year. Oh I agree, I criticized him more than anyone in terms of not making big plays, not coming up big in big spots. The final play vs. the Bills, the dropped TD against the Dolphins (a drop as far as I'm concerned). An interception that bounced off his hands to name a few. I'm not trying to make him out to be something he wasn't. He was productive, he just wasn't the playmaker we thought we'd get. I did understand why they made the move to get him.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 18, 2024 16:18:45 GMT -5
I know you've had his back, and stated his numbers as being pretty good. I just expected more from the guy based on the talk of him among the best when healthy. I'd be lying if I said he impressed me at any point last year. Oh I agree, I criticized him more than anyone in terms of not making big plays, not coming up big in big spots. The final play vs. the Bills, the dropped TD against the Dolphins (a drop as far as I'm concerned). An interception that bounced off his hands to name a few. I'm not trying to make him out to be something he wasn't. He was productive, he just wasn't the playmaker we thought we'd get. I did understand why they made the move to get him. You may disagree still but let me put it this way. I never bought into the 2022 season, the O line was still a mess and we had holes all over the roster. It was still a team that was in stage 1 of a rebuild IMO. If Schoen was looking for a quick fix to help him win a few extra games last season, and give DJ a better target, then yeah, I get why he did it which was still a mistake IMO. Waller was never going to be a part of the long term solution, a 3rd round pick plus his salary could have gone towards an O lineman(men) that could very well have been on this roster for 3-5 years when we have a legitimate shot at making a run if he continues to build the roster correctly which I’m already starting to question a bit.
|
|
giantbob71
Special Teams
Posts: 1,151
Member is Online
|
Post by giantbob71 on Mar 18, 2024 16:24:46 GMT -5
No one, but that’s the type of move a team a few players away from contending for the Super Bowl makes, not a team that beat only one team by double digits and lucked into the majority of their wins regardless of beating the worst defense in the league in the playoffs. It was a complete waste of a draft pick and money. I don't agree. I think we all acknowledge how weak our WR's were coming off 2022. We just invested heavy in our QB, we needed a playmaker, there were no options for a WR in free agency. Waller was available. If not for the missed games, he would've finished statistically among the top TE's in football. It was a worthwhile risk in my opinion. Brandin Cooks for a 5th was a much better trade and would've been a better fit, IMO. When a team trades a player, the same year they sign him to a huge extension, that's a big red flag. He had a injury history and his desire to play football had been questioned. Both are a factor now.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 16:48:59 GMT -5
Oh I agree, I criticized him more than anyone in terms of not making big plays, not coming up big in big spots. The final play vs. the Bills, the dropped TD against the Dolphins (a drop as far as I'm concerned). An interception that bounced off his hands to name a few. I'm not trying to make him out to be something he wasn't. He was productive, he just wasn't the playmaker we thought we'd get. I did understand why they made the move to get him. You may disagree still but let me put it this way. I never bought into the 2022 season, the O line was still a mess and we had holes all over the roster. It was still a team that was in stage 1 of a rebuild IMO. If Schoen was looking for a quick fix to help him win a few extra games last season, and give DJ a better target, then yeah, I get why he did it which was still a mistake IMO. Waller was never going to be a part of the long term solution, a 3rd round pick plus his salary could have gone towards an O lineman(men) that could very well have been on this roster for 3-5 years when we have a legitimate shot at making a run if he continues to build the roster correctly which I’m already starting to question a bit. I agree we could've spent that money elsewhere. But they weren't looking for Guards, because they thought they had 2 starters in Bredeson/Glowinski. Both who played ok in '22. They also had their prospects in Ezeudu/McKethan. They had to get a better receiver in here. I actually didn't like the trade at the time. Maybe they did fall into the trap of thinking they were better than they were. Either opinion on the trade is not wrong.
|
|
|
Post by lt56 on Mar 18, 2024 17:01:35 GMT -5
Find another TE Day 3 regardless of what he decides
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 19:32:04 GMT -5
I don't agree. I think we all acknowledge how weak our WR's were coming off 2022. We just invested heavy in our QB, we needed a playmaker, there were no options for a WR in free agency. Waller was available. If not for the missed games, he would've finished statistically among the top TE's in football. It was a worthwhile risk in my opinion. Brandin Cooks for a 5th was a much better trade and would've been a better fit, IMO. When a team trades a player, the same year they sign him to a huge extension, that's a big red flag. He had a injury history and his desire to play football had been questioned. Both are a factor now. I agree Cooks turned out to be a better value, but he's a #2 and was a much better fit with Dallas than he would've been here. Our roster was filled but #2's, we were trying to get a #1. Cooks had a good season with Dallas, but he also has 2 more years on Waller and more wear and tear. 2023 was a bad market for impact WR's, which was why they rolled the dice with Waller.
|
|
giantbob71
Special Teams
Posts: 1,151
Member is Online
|
Post by giantbob71 on Mar 18, 2024 20:15:33 GMT -5
Brandin Cooks for a 5th was a much better trade and would've been a better fit, IMO. When a team trades a player, the same year they sign him to a huge extension, that's a big red flag. He had a injury history and his desire to play football had been questioned. Both are a factor now. I agree Cooks turned out to be a better value, but he's a #2 and was a much better fit with Dallas than he would've been here. Our roster was filled but #2's, we were trying to get a #1. Cooks had a good season with Dallas, but he also has 2 more years on Waller and more wear and tear. 2023 was a bad market for impact WR's, which was why they rolled the dice with Waller. Cooks had been a #1 with NE and Houston. He's only been a #2 to Michael Thomas (when he was the best receiver in football), Cooper Cupp (maybe best receiver in football?), and Ceedee Lamb (top 3 last year?)...that's pretty elite company. I'd also have to diagree...I have yet to see a #2 on the Giants roster. Why did the Raiders part ways with Waller directly after rewarding him with a huge contract? Pro Football Network recently shed some light on the situation, saying the Raiders became, "wary of Waller missing significant time over the last two seasons."
Waller has missed 14 total games over the past two seasons due to several injuries. An IT band strain affected his 2021 campaign, and then a hamstring injury forced him to miss eight contests in 2022.Cooks had missed 5 the previous 2 years.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 18, 2024 21:15:18 GMT -5
You may disagree still but let me put it this way. I never bought into the 2022 season, the O line was still a mess and we had holes all over the roster. It was still a team that was in stage 1 of a rebuild IMO. If Schoen was looking for a quick fix to help him win a few extra games last season, and give DJ a better target, then yeah, I get why he did it which was still a mistake IMO. Waller was never going to be a part of the long term solution, a 3rd round pick plus his salary could have gone towards an O lineman(men) that could very well have been on this roster for 3-5 years when we have a legitimate shot at making a run if he continues to build the roster correctly which I’m already starting to question a bit. I agree we could've spent that money elsewhere. But they weren't looking for Guards, because they thought they had 2 starters in Bredeson/Glowinski. Both who played ok in '22. They also had their prospects in Ezeudu/McKethan. They had to get a better receiver in here. I actually didn't like the trade at the time. Maybe they did fall into the trap of thinking they were better than they were. Either opinion on the trade is not wrong. Again, that is what is concerning, misevaluation of talent. DG and Reese thought they had a good O line as well and never could figure it out or admit they were wrong. Just because you sign or draft new guys doesn’t mean it’s an improvement, 10 years of this shit Mike. Schoen whiffed on every O lineman he has touched, hopefully this year is different but you have to admit it’s slightly concerning. I mean after watching 2022, even if you believed they were a decent team, there’s no way anyone could have any faith in any of those O linemen going into 2023 other than Thomas. I will say I was ecstatic about JMS but he better get his shit together this year, everyone says “he’ll be fine” just like they did with Neal and both were ranked at the bottom of their positions after their rookie year. JMS needs to prove it this year (which he very well may) but he’s been uninspiring so far.
|
|