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Post by jb456 on Jul 2, 2024 12:00:39 GMT -5
They are both losers and will never get a ring. What would you rather have? A $45M turd or a $60M turd? The same has been said about Stafford and then he won a SB. Cousins comes with a short contract so is more a place holder where Dak will get 4 years minimum. Dak had teams that made backup QB's look good. I think the WORST Oline Dak has ever had was a rank of 11 or 12, he usually has top 5. Dak couldn't get it done with great Olines and then suddenly he will get it done now with worse weapons and a lesser defense? You would want the Giants to invest $60M into a QB that can't get it done with a top tier NFL team when the Giants are a bottom 10 team? |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 2, 2024 12:01:36 GMT -5
jb at this point in time these are our only hypothetical choices, do you see anyone else possible ? Do you think Dak would make us better ? As far as a ring this team is as far from a ring as Pluto is from the Sun. (Thought Kruunch might like that one) There isn't a point in shelling out huge money for loser QB's that are past their prime. They couldn't even get it done when they were in their prime. We aren't even talking about an Aaron Rodgers scenario. This is worse than an AR since those losers don't even know what winning feels like. A move like this would make the Giants worse than the Jets. At least the Jets threw money at a winner. Very good points jb, at least the Jets look like a winning club. I'm just thinking of taking steps to improve so many years of losing. Beside 2 years ago i can't remember the last winning season. And not only losing records but terrible losing seasons. I would love to see this team string a few winning seasons together and give us some pride for a once proud organization instead of a punch line everytime a talking head even mentions the New York Giants. |
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Post by jb456 on Jul 2, 2024 12:05:16 GMT -5
There isn't a point in shelling out huge money for loser QB's that are past their prime. They couldn't even get it done when they were in their prime. We aren't even talking about an Aaron Rodgers scenario. This is worse than an AR since those losers don't even know what winning feels like. A move like this would make the Giants worse than the Jets. At least the Jets threw money at a winner. Very good points jb, at least the Jets look like a winning club. I'm just thinking of taking steps to improve so many years of losing. Beside 2 years ago i can't remember the last winning season. And not only losing records but terrible losing seasons. I would love to see this team string a few winning seasons together and give us some pride for a once proud organization instead of a punch line everytime a talking head even mentions the New York Giants. The Giants are a ghost of their former self. I get wanting to get more wins but from my perspective, a move like this would indicate that the Giants want to max out as an average team. I would rather swing and miss on the draft then sink the money into one of these players that will never get it done. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 12:07:27 GMT -5
It's easy to lazily tie Prescott to the Giants because of his and Jones' contract terms.
However it's idiotic to think the Giants will drop megamoney on a QB who is at the end of his prime.
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Post by Speedman on Jul 2, 2024 12:16:49 GMT -5
Hell No to Dak and Cousins.
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Post by Nick6475 on Jul 2, 2024 12:21:08 GMT -5
I'd much rather they sell the farm for the next great QB prospect in the draft than spend big money on an aging QB that has not shown much success in the playoffs.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 2, 2024 12:27:28 GMT -5
The path to finding a franchise changing QB is becoming extremely narrow. You have to be the worst or 2nd worst team in the league in a year with great QBs in the draft. You have to beat the odds of 1st rd QBs not getting a resign from their drafting team (about 60% don’t). Trading into the top 3 was rare already, I think it’s going to be even more rare in the future. There’s an obvious case to be made for drafting a QB in 23’ for the Giants. But I gotta remind you guys that drafting a player we need gets you ZERO high fives if he doesn’t work out. No one is giving Joe any credit for drafting Neal when we needed an RT. I don’t hate Dak as much as most of you because I think he turns a decent roaster into a playoff lock overnight. He just can’t win in the playoffs. Unless we win 3 games this year, our next QB is going to have some big flaw. Almost all of them do. It probably makes more sense to mention which huge flaw you’re willing to tolerate, because you’re not going to find acquire a great QB other than being lucky or horrible. DJ’s replacement is going to have something about him you hate. I don't know what some people think about getting QB's, they don't grow on trees... I would take Dak Prescott in a nanosecond. Cant win with him? All he's ever done is win. He has one negative and that's the team he plays for. Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. |
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Post by inthezone on Jul 2, 2024 12:29:43 GMT -5
The same has been said about Stafford and then he won a SB. Cousins comes with a short contract so is more a place holder where Dak will get 4 years minimum. Dak had teams that made backup QB's look good. I think the WORST Oline Dak has ever had was a rank of 11 or 12, he usually has top 5. Dak couldn't get it done with great Olines and then suddenly he will get it done now with worse weapons and a lesser defense? You would want the Giants to invest $60M into a QB that can't get it done with a top tier NFL team when the Giants are a bottom 10 team? My response is about getting Cousins for a year or two. Sorry about the confusion. Also if the Giants are still a bottom 10 team for the 2025 season then this new FO group needs to be fired and the team is starting over. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 12:30:26 GMT -5
And where is this narrative that Prescott is a "loser" QB? All the dude does is put up top numbers year in and year out. As for the playoffs he's had one bad game in a loss. Otherwise the dude also puts up numbers in the playoffs also. In two of his losses he was: 65-98, 705 yards, 6 TDs, 3 INTs. Meanwhile the defense gave up 82 points.
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Post by inthezone on Jul 2, 2024 12:30:32 GMT -5
I'd much rather they sell the farm for the next great QB prospect in the draft than spend big money on an aging QB that has not shown much success in the playoffs. Only if that option is available which it wasn't this year. |
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Post by inthezone on Jul 2, 2024 12:34:02 GMT -5
And where is this narrative that Prescott is a "loser" QB? All the dude does is put up top numbers year in and year out. As for the playoffs he's had one bad game in a loss. Otherwise the dude also puts up numbers in the playoffs also. In two of his losses he was: 65-98, 705 yards, 6 TDs, 3 INTs. Meanwhile the defense gave up 82 points. McCarthy only won 1 SB with Rogers and came up short many times so I think he also factors in when discussing Dak and his lack of SB appearances. |
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Post by Nick6475 on Jul 2, 2024 12:36:41 GMT -5
I'd much rather they sell the farm for the next great QB prospect in the draft than spend big money on an aging QB that has not shown much success in the playoffs. Only if that option is available which it wasn't this year. Given the topic of the Giants signing Dak in 2025, not sure why you think my statement has anything to do with this year. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 12:42:23 GMT -5
I don't know what some people think about getting QB's, they don't grow on trees... I would take Dak Prescott in a nanosecond. Cant win with him? All he's ever done is win. He has one negative and that's the team he plays for. Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. The Cowboys defense gave up 48 points in that playoff loss and showed they literally could not stop GB. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 12:45:17 GMT -5
They are both losers and will never get a ring. What would you rather have? A $45M turd or a $60M turd? The same has been said about Stafford and then he won a SB. Cousins comes with a short contract so is more a place holder where Dak will get 4 years minimum. The same was said about Tampa Bay. Then they won a SB. The same was said about New Orleans. Then they won a SB. The same was said about Philly. Then they won a SB. The "they're losers and will never get a ring" based on history is weak. Not to mention "getting a ring" is extremely rare. You can say that about 99% of the players in the NFL. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 12:46:59 GMT -5
The Giants can get a trailer QB for far less money. There’s a good reason why a secondary pay tier is finally starting to emerge in the QB market. Don't say Cousins, who has a worse playoff record. And again, money shouldn't be the primary factor in speculation about a potential QB in 2025. Certainly not after paying Jones. If the Jones bombs in 2024, I don't think that this staff can afford to bargain shop. I was talking about the Mayfield/Garrappolo/Smith tier. Not Cousins who belongs in that tier but like Jones isn't for all the wrong reasons. I'm also not a buyer of the "you made a financial mistake once so it's OK to do so again" theory of economics. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 12:47:36 GMT -5
Dak isn't a big game QB. Who cares if he can out up numbers when he crumbles when its all on the line? In your opinion who are "big game QBs" in the NFL? |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 2, 2024 12:50:58 GMT -5
Very good points jb, at least the Jets look like a winning club. I'm just thinking of taking steps to improve so many years of losing. Beside 2 years ago i can't remember the last winning season. And not only losing records but terrible losing seasons. I would love to see this team string a few winning seasons together and give us some pride for a once proud organization instead of a punch line everytime a talking head even mentions the New York Giants. The Giants are a ghost of their former self. I get wanting to get more wins but from my perspective, a move like this would indicate that the Giants want to max out as an average team. I would rather swing and miss on the draft then sink the money into one of these players that will never get it done. Yes I see what you say. I completely understand. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 12:51:57 GMT -5
I'm not gonna sit here and say I'd be 100% on board with paying Dak 60 a year but some of the takes on here calling him mediocre are wild. I get we're all Giants fans who hate Dallas but the guy is one of the 7 or 8 best QBs in the game. Well, he's definitely top third on a stacked team. How much of that is due to him and how much of it he's along for the ride for we'll likely never know. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 12:54:00 GMT -5
They are both losers and will never get a ring. What would you rather have? A $45M turd or a $60M turd? The same has been said about Stafford and then he won a SB. Cousins comes with a short contract so is more a place holder where Dak will get 4 years minimum. They likely would have won that SB if they kept Goff as well. Still, I'm happy for Stafford. |
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Post by GameTime on Jul 2, 2024 13:39:17 GMT -5
****  |
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Post by TEM on Jul 2, 2024 13:45:19 GMT -5
Dak could not win with Lamb Cooks and Gallop. A productive TE in Ferguson. A top 10 Offense and Defense. If he can't win it all with that. He isn't winning anywhere. He is an INT waiting to happen in the Playoffs. That loss to GB was all him This is Dak in a nutshell In the regular season 1 INT for every 52 attempts. In the post season 1 INT for every 40 attempts. Very good points Tem, But I will say I'm not totally against it I believe Dak would make our offense better. I don't know what better options we have. I have no confidence in Jones. None ! But I'm not holding a parade for Dak either, I'm willing to give him up to 50 mil a year hopefully less absolutely no more than 50 mil a year or let him walk. It might be a good business decision. That is the going price of a top veteran starting QB in todays NFL. The top guys are going to make 60 mil a year coming up. Dak could be a top 10 NFL QB. Definitely a top 15. If you want a decent starter that's the price of doing business. It's basically 1 rung above the price were paying Jones. And in retrospect 40 mil a year today for Jones a starting vet QB (6 years) is not bad. It's just that Jones is bad is why people are crying about the money. But if Jones was competent the deal would be fine to darn good. 40 mil a year with 2 years to go after this year. Having a competent QB under that contract would be sweet. Now a top rookie QB of course would be half that salary and so much better for the team. Bottom line would Dak improve the team or not ? Would you rather have DJ as your QB ? Who else is coming along ? I am in the camp. The only purpose for the season is to expand the trophy room. Dak is not winning that game. Neither is Cousins. We had our Kerry Collins already. History does not need to repeat itself. Phil and Eli both got better as the pressure increased. That is the type QB that gets it done. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 13:53:57 GMT -5
The path to finding a franchise changing QB is becoming extremely narrow. You have to be the worst or 2nd worst team in the league in a year with great QBs in the draft. You have to beat the odds of 1st rd QBs not getting a resign from their drafting team (about 60% don’t). Trading into the top 3 was rare already, I think it’s going to be even more rare in the future. There’s an obvious case to be made for drafting a QB in 23’ for the Giants. But I gotta remind you guys that drafting a player we need gets you ZERO high fives if he doesn’t work out. No one is giving Joe any credit for drafting Neal when we needed an RT. I don’t hate Dak as much as most of you because I think he turns a decent roaster into a playoff lock overnight. He just can’t win in the playoffs. Unless we win 3 games this year, our next QB is going to have some big flaw. Almost all of them do. It probably makes more sense to mention which huge flaw you’re willing to tolerate, because you’re not going to find acquire a great QB other than being lucky or horrible. DJ’s replacement is going to have something about him you hate. I don't know what some people think about getting QB's, they don't grow on trees... I would take Dak Prescott in a nanosecond. Cant win with him? All he's ever done is win. He has one negative and that's the team he plays for. Ugh, Mike, Dak is a hack. The majority of cows fans want him gone. He racks up stats against bad teams, sound familiar? He’s rarely under pressure but sucks when he is. He chokes in the playoffs. The main reason for his success is who he’s been surrounded by. His entire career he’s had one of the best O lines in the league, sometimes even the best, and most of the time top 5. He’s had All Pro O linemen, multiple Pro Bowl O linemen, a HOF TE, an All Pro RB, Pro Bowl WR’s and TE’s and has also had a pretty good defense to boot. If he was actually as good as his stats suggest, he would have won a Super Bowl or two by now. He’s the anchor on that team, trust me, I know the cowbkys better than the Giants unfortunately. Don’t be fooled by his gaudy numbers. |
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Post by inthezone on Jul 2, 2024 13:56:45 GMT -5
Only if that option is available which it wasn't this year. Given the topic of the Giants signing Dak in 2025, not sure why you think my statement has anything to do with this year. The team couldn't sell the farm to acquire a better pick for a QB this year as an example so it might not be available the year you want it. Is that better. lol |
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Post by inthezone on Jul 2, 2024 14:00:09 GMT -5
The same has been said about Stafford and then he won a SB. Cousins comes with a short contract so is more a place holder where Dak will get 4 years minimum. They likely would have won that SB if they kept Goff as well. Still, I'm happy for Stafford. Then we will say the same when Cousins wins claiming that they would've won if Jones was still the QB.  |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 14:05:14 GMT -5
it’s easy to have opinions on this stuff when you’re not the one facing a firing squad if you’re wrong. Consistently, QBs with flaws are getting way more money than what fans think they deserve. That consistency shows a gap in how teams view QB play and how fans do. If Dak hits the open market he’ll get $60 a year. Easy. Probably more if someone can stomach a 5 year deal. Realistically we could develop into one of those teams where analysts say “they have all the parts, they’re just missing a QB”. I don't know what the other options are, but you can do much worse than Prescott. If we bomb this year with Jones, money is my last concern. We're going to spend it one way or another if we want a QB. I never worry about how Billionaires spend their money, if the Giants decide he's the guy, they will figure it out. Based on what Jones is making, Dak would be a bargain at that rate. I completely agree with your last statement. And I think fans would get over the Zak - Cowboy thing real fast. Dak may be worth an extra 2-3 wins a season, if that. If Schoen wants to save his job for a few more years by signing Dak and tacking on an extra couple wins during the regular season at the expense of the rest of the roster than sure, Dak is adequate. If he ever wants this team to be competitive against the better teams in the league DURING THE PLAYOFFS then don’t get your hopes up. Sadly there are more than a few Giants fans that would rather play it safe and sign someone like Dak just so the team may be relevant in January but also know he will never make a deep run in the playoffs. No thanks, I’d rather take my chance with a rookie QB but desperate GM’s make desperate decisions so I wouldn’t rule it out. Just prepare to be disappointed in the long run, maybe even the short run if Schoen can’t build a roster as good as the cows have had since they drafted Dak. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 2, 2024 14:13:22 GMT -5
Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. The Cowboys defense gave up 48 points in that playoff loss and showed they literally could not stop GB. That is one of many playoff losses and big game losses Giants would be dumb to pay a QB going into year 9 or 10 never mind the losing big games and teh fact that they have surrounded him with probably a top 3 team talent wise. Got nothing against him he is getting old never had the strongest arm and his mobility is has been diminished it would be a mistake IMHO. |
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Post by jb456 on Jul 2, 2024 14:13:39 GMT -5
Dak isn't a big game QB. Who cares if he can out up numbers when he crumbles when its all on the line? In your opinion who are "big game QBs" in the NFL? While that's a good point since there only about 6, Dak is sporting a 2-5 playoff record while having a steal wall protect him. Do you think he would be better than average on the Giants behind that abomination? The Giants currently have a bottom 2 Oline and the last time they were average was in 2015. Average. Dak doesn't have the wheels like he did so won't be able to get away from pressure as in the past. You don't throw $60M at a QB that is past his prime and couldn't even get to the NFCCG while being in the playoffs 7 times... |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 2, 2024 14:17:17 GMT -5
I don't know what the other options are, but you can do much worse than Prescott. If we bomb this year with Jones, money is my last concern. We're going to spend it one way or another if we want a QB. I never worry about how Billionaires spend their money, if the Giants decide he's the guy, they will figure it out. Based on what Jones is making, Dak would be a bargain at that rate. I completely agree with your last statement. And I think fans would get over the Zak - Cowboy thing real fast. Dak may be worth an extra 2-3 wins a season, if that. If Schoen wants to save his job for a few more years by signing Dak and tacking on an extra couple wins during the regular season at the expense of the rest of the roster than sure, Dak is adequate. If he ever wants this team to be competitive against the better teams in the league DURING THE PLAYOFFS then don’t get your hopes up. Sadly there are more than a few Giants fans that would rather play it safe and sign someone like Dak just so the team may be relevant in January but also know he will never make a deep run in the playoffs. No thanks, I’d rather take my chance with a rookie QB but desperate GM’s make desperate decisions so I wouldn’t rule it out. Just prepare to be disappointed in the long run, maybe even the short run if Schoen can’t build a roster as good as the cows have had since they drafted Dak. The first half of his career he had a top 2 OL it has tailed off some but they look like they might be solid again the D is good and teh weapons outside of RB are top notch. Draft our next guy do not sign a old vet. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 14:34:52 GMT -5
And where is this narrative that Prescott is a "loser" QB? All the dude does is put up top numbers year in and year out. As for the playoffs he's had one bad game in a loss. Otherwise the dude also puts up numbers in the playoffs also. In two of his losses he was: 65-98, 705 yards, 6 TDs, 3 INTs. Meanwhile the defense gave up 82 points. So why did you say it he’s at the end of his prime? Last year he was in the running for MVP until late in the season and had one of his best seasons ever, if not the best. |
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thrax
Special Teams
Posts: 199
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Post by thrax on Jul 2, 2024 14:38:07 GMT -5
No more cowboys rejects
👏👏👏🤮
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