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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 14:42:16 GMT -5
Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. The Cowboys defense gave up 48 points in that playoff loss and showed they literally could not stop GB. This says all you need to know. larrybrownsports.com/football/dak-prescott-cowboys-packers-playoffs/627097 |
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Post by McCherry on Jul 2, 2024 14:42:42 GMT -5
I don't know what some people think about getting QB's, they don't grow on trees... I would take Dak Prescott in a nanosecond. Cant win with him? All he's ever done is win. He has one negative and that's the team he plays for. Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. Then who is the 2025 free agent QB with a Super Bowl ring on their resume? All I’m saying is, if we’re talking about the quality of available QB’s in next years class, it’s Dak by a country mile. I don’t subscribe to the talk about QB’s that can only win certain games. Championships are a team contribution. If Matthew Stamford can win one, every QB can. Let’s just win some games before taking about Championships. With Dak we win games. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 14:54:14 GMT -5
I'm not gonna sit here and say I'd be 100% on board with paying Dak 60 a year but some of the takes on here calling him mediocre are wild. I get we're all Giants fans who hate Dallas but the guy is one of the 7 or 8 best QBs in the game. Well, he's definitely top third on a stacked team. How much of that is due to him and how much of it he's along for the ride for we'll likely never know. 85% due to him, he sucks under adversity. He’s been spoiled with one of the best rosters in the league for years and when the tough get going Dak crumbles. The team lifts him, not the other way around. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 15:01:22 GMT -5
Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. Then who is the 2025 free agent QB with a Super Bowl ring on their resume? All I’m saying is, if we’re talking about the quality of available QB’s in next years class, it’s Dak by a country mile. I don’t subscribe to the talk about QB’s that can only win certain games. Championships are a team contribution. If Matthew Stamford can win one, every QB can. Let’s just win some games before taking about Championships. With Dak we win games. Not unless we have a top 5-10 O line, top 10 defense, very good RB’s, and Pro Bowl TE’s along with Pro Bowl WR’s. |
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Post by McCherry on Jul 2, 2024 15:05:00 GMT -5
Don't say Cousins, who has a worse playoff record. And again, money shouldn't be the primary factor in speculation about a potential QB in 2025. Certainly not after paying Jones. If the Jones bombs in 2024, I don't think that this staff can afford to bargain shop. I was talking about the Mayfield/Garrappolo/Smith tier. Not Cousins who belongs in that tier but like Jones isn't for all the wrong reasons. I'm also not a buyer of the "you made a financial mistake once so it's OK to do so again" theory of economics. I don’t think that group moves the needle much from what we have. If it comes to upgrading the QB, you look at the talent first, financials second. Dak is the best QB in the group and an instant upgrade. There is no discussion about it. Many things would have to go wrong for this to become a real conversation. If in that case, Schoen is going to be looking at bargain QB’s to save his career, that’s another discussion. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 15:27:20 GMT -5
In your opinion who are "big game QBs" in the NFL? While that's a good point since there only about 6, Dak is sporting a 2-5 playoff record while having a steal wall protect him. Do you think he would be better than average on the Giants behind that abomination? The Giants currently have a bottom 2 Oline and the last time they were average was in 2015. Average. Dak doesn't have the wheels like he did so won't be able to get away from pressure as in the past. You don't throw $60M at a QB that is past his prime and couldn't even get to the NFCCG while being in the playoffs 7 times... Who are these six big game QBs in your opinion? Also, look at Prescott's performances in the five losses. Only one bad game. I just think the "he chokes" narrative is mostly driven by bitter Giants fans having to watch him and the Cowboys prone bone us for a decade. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 15:30:57 GMT -5
And where is this narrative that Prescott is a "loser" QB? All the dude does is put up top numbers year in and year out. As for the playoffs he's had one bad game in a loss. Otherwise the dude also puts up numbers in the playoffs also. In two of his losses he was: 65-98, 705 yards, 6 TDs, 3 INTs. Meanwhile the defense gave up 82 points. So why did you say it he’s at the end of his prime? Last year he was in the running for MVP until late in the season and had one of his best seasons ever, if not the best. I should have said he's entering the end of his prime. 30 years old, going into his 9th season. While a damn good pocket passer he does rely a lot on mobility to create space, etc... and that's bound to start slowing down. |
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Post by jb456 on Jul 2, 2024 15:51:03 GMT -5
While that's a good point since there only about 6, Dak is sporting a 2-5 playoff record while having a steal wall protect him. Do you think he would be better than average on the Giants behind that abomination? The Giants currently have a bottom 2 Oline and the last time they were average was in 2015. Average. Dak doesn't have the wheels like he did so won't be able to get away from pressure as in the past. You don't throw $60M at a QB that is past his prime and couldn't even get to the NFCCG while being in the playoffs 7 times... Who are these six big game QBs in your opinion? Also, look at Prescott's performances in the five losses. Only one bad game. I just think the "he chokes" narrative is mostly driven by bitter Giants fans having to watch him and the Cowboys prone bone us for a decade. Mahomes Burrow AR Hurts JA MS CJS Potential JL TL No potential: DP KC Being average is bad in a playoff game. 2-5 and this isn't coming from a fan that hates the Eagles 1000x more that the Cowboys and I put Hurts on that list. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 16:20:19 GMT -5
They likely would have won that SB if they kept Goff as well. Still, I'm happy for Stafford. Then we will say the same when Cousins wins claiming that they would've won if Jones was still the QB.  lol! I'd take the action that neither ever gets near a Super Bowl unless they buy a ticket. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 16:21:57 GMT -5
I don't know what the other options are, but you can do much worse than Prescott. If we bomb this year with Jones, money is my last concern. We're going to spend it one way or another if we want a QB. I never worry about how Billionaires spend their money, if the Giants decide he's the guy, they will figure it out. Based on what Jones is making, Dak would be a bargain at that rate. I completely agree with your last statement. And I think fans would get over the Zak - Cowboy thing real fast. Dak may be worth an extra 2-3 wins a season, if that. If Schoen wants to save his job for a few more years by signing Dak and tacking on an extra couple wins during the regular season at the expense of the rest of the roster than sure, Dak is adequate. If he ever wants this team to be competitive against the better teams in the league DURING THE PLAYOFFS then don’t get your hopes up. Sadly there are more than a few Giants fans that would rather play it safe and sign someone like Dak just so the team may be relevant in January but also know he will never make a deep run in the playoffs. No thanks, I’d rather take my chance with a rookie QB but desperate GM’s make desperate decisions so I wouldn’t rule it out. Just prepare to be disappointed in the long run, maybe even the short run if Schoen can’t build a roster as good as the cows have had since they drafted Dak. Top or elite (if you prefer) QBs are worth that, maybe. Zak is not in that category. He'll take you as far as the team's talent will. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 16:24:29 GMT -5
And where is this narrative that Prescott is a "loser" QB? All the dude does is put up top numbers year in and year out. As for the playoffs he's had one bad game in a loss. Otherwise the dude also puts up numbers in the playoffs also. In two of his losses he was: 65-98, 705 yards, 6 TDs, 3 INTs. Meanwhile the defense gave up 82 points. So why did you say it he’s at the end of his prime? Last year he was in the running for MVP until late in the season and had one of his best seasons ever, if not the best. In the running for MVP means the team was very, very good; don't confuse it with an individual award. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 16:27:06 GMT -5
Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. Then who is the 2025 free agent QB with a Super Bowl ring on their resume? All I’m saying is, if we’re talking about the quality of available QB’s in next years class, it’s Dak by a country mile. I don’t subscribe to the talk about QB’s that can only win certain games. Championships are a team contribution. If Matthew Stamford can win one, every QB can. Let’s just win some games before taking about Championships. With Dak we win games. Sure we win games. Just not many or possibly any more than the Giants would with any other mediocre QB without paying many more millions for the privilege. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 16:31:55 GMT -5
I was talking about the Mayfield/Garrappolo/Smith tier. Not Cousins who belongs in that tier but like Jones isn't for all the wrong reasons. I'm also not a buyer of the "you made a financial mistake once so it's OK to do so again" theory of economics. I don’t think that group moves the needle much from what we have. If it comes to upgrading the QB, you look at the talent first, financials second. Dak is the best QB in the group and an instant upgrade. There is no discussion about it. Many things would have to go wrong for this to become a real conversation. If in that case, Schoen is going to be looking at bargain QB’s to save his career, that’s another discussion. I agree. I don't think that group moves the needle much from what we have at all. That's why I said it. I don't think Prescott group moves the needle much from what we have either. I'm not a fan of the relative value designation. It's like saying "he's the best WR the Giants ever had". When the comparison group sucks, being the fastest horse at the glue factory is just damning with faint praise. If Schoen needs a QB to save his career, looking at Prescott should end that problem immediately. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Jul 2, 2024 16:36:32 GMT -5
I’m sure Dak really wants to be a Giant
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 16:44:06 GMT -5
Who are these six big game QBs in your opinion? Also, look at Prescott's performances in the five losses. Only one bad game. I just think the "he chokes" narrative is mostly driven by bitter Giants fans having to watch him and the Cowboys prone bone us for a decade. Mahomes Burrow AR Hurts JA MS CJS Potential JL TL No potential: DP KC Being average is bad in a playoff game. 2-5 and this isn't coming from a fan that hates the Eagles 1000x more that the Cowboys and I put Hurts on that list. I'm sorry... CJ Shroud is already a big game QB? Jalen Hurts? Wut? Matthew Stafford = MS? Outside of one playoff run with a stacked Rams team he's 0-4 in the playoffs. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 16:50:09 GMT -5
So why did you say it he’s at the end of his prime? Last year he was in the running for MVP until late in the season and had one of his best seasons ever, if not the best. I should have said he's entering the end of his prime. 30 years old, going into his 9th season. While a damn good pocket passer he does rely a lot on mobility to create space, etc... and that's bound to start slowing down. Agreed! |
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Post by jb456 on Jul 2, 2024 16:53:31 GMT -5
Mahomes Burrow AR Hurts JA MS CJS Potential JL TL No potential: DP KC Being average is bad in a playoff game. 2-5 and this isn't coming from a fan that hates the Eagles 1000x more that the Cowboys and I put Hurts on that list. I'm sorry... CJ Shroud is already a big game QB? Jalen Hurts? Wut? Matthew Stafford = MS? Outside of one playoff run with a stacked Rams team he's 0-4 in the playoffs. Jalen Hurts dominated in the superbowl and a better coach probably wins that game. CJ S has already shown he is better big game than DP would ever be. Winning 4 consecutive games and collecting a ring puts MS in that category. DP has never won more than 1 playoff game in a season. Yes stringing together multiple playoff wins and a Superbowl victory makes you a big game QB. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 16:53:56 GMT -5
So why did you say it he’s at the end of his prime? Last year he was in the running for MVP until late in the season and had one of his best seasons ever, if not the best. In the running for MVP means the team was very, very good; don't confuse it with an individual award. Oh, I’m well aware, I’m on your side. Danke corrected what he meant. I was just “busting chops”, I don’t think he was an MVP, not even close, he’s a product of his surroundings. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 16:58:53 GMT -5
I honestly doubt Dak will even hit FA for this reason and this reason only. Jerry will pay him because Jerry is now 81? and he knows he doesn’t have much time left on planet earth. He wants another Super Bowl like no other owner just so he can get the “Jimmy Johnson” shit off his back. I don’t see him starting over with a rookie QB and taking that chance. He’ll eventually pay Dak what he wants.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 2, 2024 17:18:42 GMT -5
I don’t think that group moves the needle much from what we have. If it comes to upgrading the QB, you look at the talent first, financials second. Dak is the best QB in the group and an instant upgrade. There is no discussion about it. Many things would have to go wrong for this to become a real conversation. If in that case, Schoen is going to be looking at bargain QB’s to save his career, that’s another discussion. I agree. I don't think that group moves the needle much from what we have at all. That's why I said it. I don't think Prescott group moves the needle much from what we have either. I'm not a fan of the relative value designation. It's like saying "he's the best WR the Giants ever had". When the comparison group sucks, being the fastest horse at the glue factory is just damning with faint praise. If Schoen needs a QB to save his career, looking at Prescott should end that problem immediately. Prescott was a top-3 QB in 2023. Having watched he and Jones go head to head over the last several years, in what universe are these two players even remotely on the same level? |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Jul 2, 2024 17:34:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry... CJ Shroud is already a big game QB? Jalen Hurts? Wut? Matthew Stafford = MS? Outside of one playoff run with a stacked Rams team he's 0-4 in the playoffs. Jalen Hurts dominated in the superbowl and a better coach probably wins that game. CJ S has already shown he is better big game than DP would ever be. Winning 4 consecutive games and collecting a ring puts MS in that category. DP has never won more than 1 playoff game in a season. Yes stringing together multiple playoff wins and a Superbowl victory makes you a big game QB. Please stop. This is just cliche Giants bitterness shining through. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 18:04:12 GMT -5
I agree. I don't think that group moves the needle much from what we have at all. That's why I said it. I don't think Prescott group moves the needle much from what we have either. I'm not a fan of the relative value designation. It's like saying "he's the best WR the Giants ever had". When the comparison group sucks, being the fastest horse at the glue factory is just damning with faint praise. If Schoen needs a QB to save his career, looking at Prescott should end that problem immediately. Prescott was a top-3 QB in 2023. Having watched he and Jones go head to head over the last several years, in what universe are these two players even remotely on the same level? In the universe of being a QB that can win games despite the team around him. |
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Post by vinnie on Jul 2, 2024 18:07:36 GMT -5
I agree. I don't think that group moves the needle much from what we have at all. That's why I said it. I don't think Prescott group moves the needle much from what we have either. I'm not a fan of the relative value designation. It's like saying "he's the best WR the Giants ever had". When the comparison group sucks, being the fastest horse at the glue factory is just damning with faint praise. If Schoen needs a QB to save his career, looking at Prescott should end that problem immediately. Prescott was a top-3 QB in 2023. Having watched he and Jones go head to head over the last several years, in what universe are these two players even remotely on the same level? Ummmm….one QB was surrounded by “all stars”, the other was surrounded by trash. Mike, all I can say is I’ve watched every cowboys game for over 30 years, minus the one year I would record it and only watch it if they lost, and Dak is better than Jones but are you looking for a QB to help the Giants win a Super Bowl or a QB to help the the Giants stay relevant? Since you don’t seem too familiar with Dak outside of his numbers, the cowboys W’s and L’s and how he’s played against our pathetic defenses I could switch it all up and make an argument for Jones. Jones has had one playoff win in 5 years with an inferior roster. Dak has had 2 playoff wins in ~7 years with some of the best rosters in the league and I believe one was against wins was against the Bucaneers who had a losing? record or close to it. Based on that information, who would you rather have at QB? The correct answer is neither. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 2, 2024 20:45:01 GMT -5
Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. Then who is the 2025 free agent QB with a Super Bowl ring on their resume? All I’m saying is, if we’re talking about the quality of available QB’s in next years class, it’s Dak by a country mile. I don’t subscribe to the talk about QB’s that can only win certain games. Championships are a team contribution. If Matthew Stamford can win one, every QB can. Let’s just win some games before taking about Championships. With Dak we win games. Biggest mistake they will make in the last 15 years 20 years the guy is old he will get them to the edge of playoff contention. Think Dak is the kind of guy a team that is close brings in that have the roster but not the QB yet Giants are guy is in the twilight of his career Giants don't need 3 year stop gap. |
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Post by McCherry on Jul 2, 2024 20:52:13 GMT -5
Prescott was a top-3 QB in 2023. Having watched he and Jones go head to head over the last several years, in what universe are these two players even remotely on the same level? In the universe of being a QB that can win games despite the team around him. You don’t think that going from one of the worst QB’s to one of the top QB’s puts the Giants in the conversation of a winning season in ‘25? That would suggest that Schoen has done a downright awful job overall. |
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Post by McCherry on Jul 2, 2024 21:17:54 GMT -5
Then who is the 2025 free agent QB with a Super Bowl ring on their resume? All I’m saying is, if we’re talking about the quality of available QB’s in next years class, it’s Dak by a country mile. I don’t subscribe to the talk about QB’s that can only win certain games. Championships are a team contribution. If Matthew Stamford can win one, every QB can. Let’s just win some games before taking about Championships. With Dak we win games. Biggest mistake they will make in the last 15 years 20 years the guy is old he will get them to the edge of playoff contention. Think Dak is the kind of guy a team that is close brings in that have the roster but not the QB yet Giants are guy is in the twilight of his career Giants don't need 3 year stop gap. After what we’ve been through the past 6 years, who wouldn’t gladly accept playoff contention? What other QB wouldn’t be a stopgap and could you confidently say would take us further? |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 2, 2024 21:31:01 GMT -5
Biggest mistake they will make in the last 15 years 20 years the guy is old he will get them to the edge of playoff contention. Think Dak is the kind of guy a team that is close brings in that have the roster but not the QB yet Giants are guy is in the twilight of his career Giants don't need 3 year stop gap. After what we’ve been through the past 6 years, who wouldn’t gladly accept playoff contention? What other QB wouldn’t be a stopgap and could you confidently say would take us further? Mike they will have 0 money to sign their own guys and at least fill holes through free agency. I'm not good with it build the roster and find your imperfect QB that can win Brock Purdy comes to mind he doesn't have prototypical size or arm strength but processes well and has the weapons and OL to do damage. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 2, 2024 22:37:13 GMT -5
In the universe of being a QB that can win games despite the team around him. You don’t think that going from one of the worst QB’s to one of the top QB’s puts the Giants in the conversation of a winning season in ‘25? That would suggest that Schoen has done a downright awful job overall. No. Your projection aside Prescott isn't taking any team further than their overall talent dictates. Sure he's better than Jones but is that really the bar? If so, that's tragic. |
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Post by cdngfan on Jul 3, 2024 7:04:29 GMT -5
Nothing against Dak. I think the one negative for him is not winning big games with the team he plays for they have given him more than enough. Last year they were loaded on both sides of the ball and have been several other times through out his career. Then who is the 2025 free agent QB with a Super Bowl ring on their resume? All I’m saying is, if we’re talking about the quality of available QB’s in next years class, it’s Dak by a country mile. I don’t subscribe to the talk about QB’s that can only win certain games. Championships are a team contribution. If Matthew Stamford can win one, every QB can. Let’s just win some games before taking about Championships. With Dak we win games. . Spot on. To me it helps thinking like a GM sitting in front of your boss vs a fan who thinks cap space is as valuable as wins. Dak’s warts are well known. But you couldn’t be more right, he’s an enormous upgrade from any other cheap QB mentioned, and statistical hit/miss probability on 1st rd drafted QBs, is an enormous upgrade over Nix/McCarthy, but we don’t know that for sure yet. One of those two could turn out to be money. The real issue is there’s going to be a huge bidding war for him (I think) so at what # do you tap out if that’s the route you go. Bigger than the Dak question is, what performance level has you move on from DJ. That’s a more pressing question. Fans on the whole undervalue QB performance compared to GMs. The outcomes are pretty consistent. Fans think GMs are fools in their QB decisions (Cousins/Dak/Lawrence/DJ/Watson). |
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Post by jb456 on Jul 3, 2024 7:20:12 GMT -5
Jalen Hurts dominated in the superbowl and a better coach probably wins that game. CJ S has already shown he is better big game than DP would ever be. Winning 4 consecutive games and collecting a ring puts MS in that category. DP has never won more than 1 playoff game in a season. Yes stringing together multiple playoff wins and a Superbowl victory makes you a big game QB. Please stop. This is just cliche Giants bitterness shining through. Lol, I don't even hate the Cowboys. I hate the Eagles. Also, If the Eagles were getting ready to ship off Hurts, I would agree with the Giants making a move like that. Dak is trash and a huge portion of the Cowboys fan base don't like him either. He would be terrible on the Giants. No one wants him except for you. |
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