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Post by roundabout on Mar 22, 2020 9:26:48 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardner_MinshewNFL statistics Year Team Games Passing Rushing Fumbles GP GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Rtg Att Yds Avg TD Fum Lost 2019 JAX 14 12 285 470 60.6 3,271 6.9 21 6 91.2 67 344 5.1 0 13 7 Career 14 12 285 470 60.6 3,271 6.9 21 6 91.2 67 344 5.1 0 13 7 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Jones_(American_football)Danial Jones Source: NFL Season Team Games Passing Rushing Fumbles GP GS Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Rate Sck SckY Att Yds Avg TD Fum Lost 2019 NYG 13 12 284 459 61.9 3,027 6.6 24 12 87.7 38 295 45 279 6.2 2 18 11 Total 13 12 284 459 61.9 3,027 6.6 24 12 87.7 38 295 45 279 6.2 2 18 11 Giants Franchise records Most Games started (rookie season): 12 (2019) Most Completions (rookie season): 284 (2019) Most Pass Attempts (rookie season): 459 (2019) Highest Completion Percentage (rookie season): 61.8% (2019) Most Passing Yards (rookie season): 3,027 (2019) Most Passing TDs (rookie season): 24 (2019) Most Passer Rating (rookie season): 87.7 (2019) Most Pass Yds/Game (rookie season): 232.8 (2019) Most Losses (rookie season): 9 (2019) Most 4th Quarter Comebacks (rookie season): 1 (2019) (tied with 6 other players) Most Game Winning Drives (rookie season): 2 (2019) NFL records Most passing touchdowns in a single game by a rookie quarterback: 5 (December 22, 2019 vs. Washington Redskins) (tied with Ray Buivid, Matthew Stafford, Jameis Winston, and Deshaun Watson)[31] First rookie to have three games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions.[32] As usual, you are not making a point here. So I guess I will since you are not able....yet again.
I like the kid. I'm encouraged by his abilities. He makes a lot of plays.
My concern isn't just the fumbles. It's the lack of pocket awareness that I believe is a major contributor to those fumbles. He has to be better and more aware of his surroundings in the pocket. he has to start feeling the rush or the fumbles will continue.
My hope is that he will but that is a high hurdle.
I really liked what I saw from Jones last year.With that said I do agree with you his pocket awareness is a contributing factor to his fumbles..All in all a solid rookie year on a very bad team and WE shouldn't expect a finished product 12 games into his career
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 10:53:57 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardner_MinshewNFL statistics Year Team Games Passing Rushing Fumbles GP GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Rtg Att Yds Avg TD Fum Lost 2019 JAX 14 12 285 470 60.6 3,271 6.9 21 6 91.2 67 344 5.1 0 13 7 Career 14 12 285 470 60.6 3,271 6.9 21 6 91.2 67 344 5.1 0 13 7 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Jones_(American_football)Danial Jones Source: NFL Season Team Games Passing Rushing Fumbles GP GS Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int Rate Sck SckY Att Yds Avg TD Fum Lost 2019 NYG 13 12 284 459 61.9 3,027 6.6 24 12 87.7 38 295 45 279 6.2 2 18 11 Total 13 12 284 459 61.9 3,027 6.6 24 12 87.7 38 295 45 279 6.2 2 18 11 Giants Franchise records Most Games started (rookie season): 12 (2019) Most Completions (rookie season): 284 (2019) Most Pass Attempts (rookie season): 459 (2019) Highest Completion Percentage (rookie season): 61.8% (2019) Most Passing Yards (rookie season): 3,027 (2019) Most Passing TDs (rookie season): 24 (2019) Most Passer Rating (rookie season): 87.7 (2019) Most Pass Yds/Game (rookie season): 232.8 (2019) Most Losses (rookie season): 9 (2019) Most 4th Quarter Comebacks (rookie season): 1 (2019) (tied with 6 other players) Most Game Winning Drives (rookie season): 2 (2019) NFL records Most passing touchdowns in a single game by a rookie quarterback: 5 (December 22, 2019 vs. Washington Redskins) (tied with Ray Buivid, Matthew Stafford, Jameis Winston, and Deshaun Watson)[31] First rookie to have three games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions.[32] As usual, you are not making a point here. So I guess I will since you are not able....yet again.
I like the kid. I'm encouraged by his abilities. He makes a lot of plays.
My concern isn't just the fumbles. It's the lack of pocket awareness that I believe is a major contributor to those fumbles. He has to be better and more aware of his surroundings in the pocket. he has to start feeling the rush or the fumbles will continue.
My hope is that he will but that is a high hurdle.
I think having Judge rather than Shurmur as HC will help make a difference. IMO he will hold Jones accountable for the fumbles rather than patting him on the head and telling him "It's ok...you'll do better next time" Ala...Coughlin/Tiki
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 22, 2020 11:33:10 GMT -5
As usual, you are not making a point here. So I guess I will since you are not able....yet again.
I like the kid. I'm encouraged by his abilities. He makes a lot of plays.
My concern isn't just the fumbles. It's the lack of pocket awareness that I believe is a major contributor to those fumbles. He has to be better and more aware of his surroundings in the pocket. he has to start feeling the rush or the fumbles will continue.
My hope is that he will but that is a high hurdle.
i think it may be a combo of some lack of awareness and some toughness by standing in there and taking the hits to possibly make a play. Either way it needs to be cleaned up. The issue is every single fumble, and there will be more, will be magnified 10x unitl he gets it under control Maybe part of it is we picked a guy who is supposedly "mobile" and sat him in the pocket 98% of the time, behind an OL that under-performed? Not saying he doesnt have issues to correct, but the coaching on both sides of the ball contributed a lot to last season.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 11:40:58 GMT -5
i think it may be a combo of some lack of awareness and some toughness by standing in there and taking the hits to possibly make a play. Either way it needs to be cleaned up. The issue is every single fumble, and there will be more, will be magnified 10x unitl he gets it under control Maybe part of it is we picked a guy who is supposedly "mobile" and sat him in the pocket 98% of the time, behind an OL that under-performed? Not saying he doesnt have issues to correct, but the coaching on both sides of the ball contributed a lot to last season. I hope you are correct! Lets see what this new coaching staff can accomplish but if they don't fix the oline then it's going to be a lot tougher..
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Post by GameTime on Mar 22, 2020 11:43:57 GMT -5
i think it may be a combo of some lack of awareness and some toughness by standing in there and taking the hits to possibly make a play. Either way it needs to be cleaned up. The issue is every single fumble, and there will be more, will be magnified 10x unitl he gets it under control Maybe part of it is we picked a guy who is supposedly "mobile" and sat him in the pocket 98% of the time, behind an OL that under-performed? Not saying he doesnt have issues to correct, but the coaching on both sides of the ball contributed a lot to last season. true.....many reasons for his success and issues. Year two is coming up and we are all excited to see this kid improve
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Post by giants38 on Mar 22, 2020 22:14:18 GMT -5
I think that QB coach may be the most important staff hire.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 8:56:30 GMT -5
As usual, you are not making a point here. So I guess I will since you are not able....yet again.
I made my point you just refuse to accept it,again. I'm trying to understand why you think the Minshew is better ? I didn't say Minshew is better. I said he had a better year. In what way did Daniel Jones have a better year than Gardner Minshew in your view?
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 23, 2020 9:13:34 GMT -5
As usual, you are not making a point here. So I guess I will since you are not able....yet again.
I like the kid. I'm encouraged by his abilities. He makes a lot of plays.
My concern isn't just the fumbles. It's the lack of pocket awareness that I believe is a major contributor to those fumbles. He has to be better and more aware of his surroundings in the pocket. he has to start feeling the rush or the fumbles will continue.
My hope is that he will but that is a high hurdle.
I think having Judge rather than Shurmur as HC will help make a difference. IMO he will hold Jones accountable for the fumbles rather than patting him on the head and telling him "It's ok...you'll do better next time" Ala...Coughlin/Tiki There was an urgency to win last season, for the HC's sake. That has been brought up, in why Williams was brought on mid season at such a cost. Now there will be an urgency to at least have an improved record, for the GM's sake. Not sure the extent as to how that transpires on the field, but as was properly done with Eli, hanging on to the ball to hit receivers for scores has to be dialed back for Jones to progress.
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Post by Bigjeep on Mar 23, 2020 9:20:15 GMT -5
Bringing the thread back, yes we have him for another year! Still, not one of the dumbest trades ever made, but the dumbest! Two picks for a rental on a dead to last team! Still shaking my head! He had to be on to many meds when he made this trade?
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 23, 2020 9:54:14 GMT -5
I think having Judge rather than Shurmur as HC will help make a difference. IMO he will hold Jones accountable for the fumbles rather than patting him on the head and telling him "It's ok...you'll do better next time" Ala...Coughlin/Tiki There was an urgency to win last season, for the HC's sake. That has been brought up, in why Williams was brought on mid season at such a cost. Now there will be an urgency to at least have an improved record, for the GM's sake. Not sure the extent as to how that transpires on the field, but as was properly done with Eli, hanging on to the ball to hit receivers for scores has to be dialed back for Jones to progress. This is something most peeps here will just not acknowledge. They will claim "the season was already over" and there was no reason to trade for him. Thats not the way a HC or GM would or should think. They are working to both win and keep their jobs, regardless of the current record. We can argue about whether he was worth the cost, but not that we didnt need him at all.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:04:13 GMT -5
There was an urgency to win last season, for the HC's sake. That has been brought up, in why Williams was brought on mid season at such a cost. Now there will be an urgency to at least have an improved record, for the GM's sake. Not sure the extent as to how that transpires on the field, but as was properly done with Eli, hanging on to the ball to hit receivers for scores has to be dialed back for Jones to progress. This is something most peeps here will just not acknowledge. They will claim "the season was already over" and there was no reason to trade for him. Thats not the way a HC or GM would or should think. They are working to both win and keep their jobs, regardless of the current record. We can argue about whether he was worth the cost, but not that we didnt need him at all. Let me make sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that "saving the HC's job" is a proper standard for personnel decisions?
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 23, 2020 10:06:08 GMT -5
This is something most peeps here will just not acknowledge. They will claim "the season was already over" and there was no reason to trade for him. Thats not the way a HC or GM would or should think. They are working to both win and keep their jobs, regardless of the current record. We can argue about whether he was worth the cost, but not that we didnt need him at all. Let me make sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that "saving the HC's job" is a proper standard for personnel decisions?
Winning games is, regardless of the current record.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:09:31 GMT -5
Let me make sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that "saving the HC's job" is a proper standard for personnel decisions?
Winning games is, regardless of the current record. Absolutely. You prepare your players to do everything to win every week.
What you DON'T do is sacrifice the future with a trade for a rental player on a team that is already out of contention. That is foolish.
And by your standard it was an especially foolish trade since we went 2-6 while he was on the field.
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 23, 2020 10:13:10 GMT -5
Winning games is, regardless of the current record. Absolutely. You prepare your players to do everything to win every week.
What you DON'T do is sacrifice the future with a trade for a rental player on a team that is already out of contention. That is foolish.
And by your standard it was an especially foolish trade since we went 2-6 while he was on the field.
He obviously was not a "rental." They just franchised him.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:16:28 GMT -5
Absolutely. You prepare your players to do everything to win every week.
What you DON'T do is sacrifice the future with a trade for a rental player on a team that is already out of contention. That is foolish.
And by your standard it was an especially foolish trade since we went 2-6 while he was on the field.
He obviously was not a "rental." They just franchised him. His tag # is an overpay. Dave "tagged" him to save face. There was no chance he wouldn't be tagged.
You don't pay a 3/4 DE who can't get to the QB over $16MM. It's called doubling down on a mistake....which we all knew Dave was going to do.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 23, 2020 10:16:38 GMT -5
Bringing the thread back, yes we have him for another year! Still, not one of the dumbest trades ever made, but the dumbest! Two picks for a rental on a dead to last team! Still shaking my head! He had to be on to many meds when he made this trade? Haven't we beaten this subject to death?
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:18:01 GMT -5
Bringing the thread back, yes we have him for another year! Still, not one of the dumbest trades ever made, but the dumbest! Two picks for a rental on a dead to last team! Still shaking my head! He had to be on to many meds when he made this trade? Haven't we beaten this subject to death? In the new world of Coronavirus........ .No. We need ANYTHING to talk about other than that.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 23, 2020 10:18:16 GMT -5
Let me make sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that "saving the HC's job" is a proper standard for personnel decisions?
Winning games is, regardless of the current record. Exactly I think it would have been in the best interest of the franchise the GM and 18 or so coaches if they could have righted the ship. This GM no matter how much people like or dislikes him keeps working the roster from start to finish to get better. he did his first year cutting Omameh and signing Brown. Williams made the Giants better trying to help your coaching staff survive is what their job is.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:21:12 GMT -5
Winning games is, regardless of the current record. Exactly I think it would have been in the best interest of the franchise the GM and 18 or so coaches if they could have righted the ship. This GM no matter how much people like or dislikes him keeps working the roster from start to finish to get better. he did his first year cutting Omameh and signing Brown. Williams made the Giants better trying to help your coaching staff survive is what their job is. Picking up a free agent is great...even on a bad team. Pay him a few million and give him a chance to settle in to our team. That's all good.
Giving up two picks on a rebuilding team and then franchising him at that huge number isn't the same thing.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 23, 2020 10:22:06 GMT -5
He obviously was not a "rental." They just franchised him. His tag # is an overpay. Dave "tagged" him to save face. There was no chance he wouldn't be tagged.
You don't pay a 3/4 DE who can't get to the QB over $16MM. It's called doubling down on a mistake....which we all knew Dave was going to do.
I don't have an issue tagging him if it leads to a long term deal that is way more cap friendly...I do have an issue with him actually playing for the tag number this year.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:24:32 GMT -5
His tag # is an overpay. Dave "tagged" him to save face. There was no chance he wouldn't be tagged.
You don't pay a 3/4 DE who can't get to the QB over $16MM. It's called doubling down on a mistake....which we all knew Dave was going to do.
I don't have an issue tagging him if it leads to a long term deal that is way more cap friendly...I do have an issue with him actually playing for the tag number this year. Time will tell Deli........
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 23, 2020 10:24:59 GMT -5
Exactly I think it would have been in the best interest of the franchise the GM and 18 or so coaches if they could have righted the ship. This GM no matter how much people like or dislikes him keeps working the roster from start to finish to get better. he did his first year cutting Omameh and signing Brown. Williams made the Giants better trying to help your coaching staff survive is what their job is. Picking up a free agent is great...even on a bad team. Pay him a few million and give him a chance to settle in to our team. That's all good.
Giving up two picks on a rebuilding team and then franchising him at that huge number isn't the same thing.
They are two separate things: The picks are gone. The question is does it make sense to sign Williams to a long term deal? And if you are wondering, the fact that the picks are gone should be a fireable offense, in my eyes.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 23, 2020 10:26:25 GMT -5
He obviously was not a "rental." They just franchised him. His tag # is an overpay. Dave "tagged" him to save face. There was no chance he wouldn't be tagged.
You don't pay a 3/4 DE who can't get to the QB over $16MM. It's called doubling down on a mistake....which we all knew Dave was going to do.
Dave don't give a rats ass what me you the media thinks this is not over. Josh Norman was franchised DG removed the tag when there was no chance to agree a reasonable number. That was the right move Norman was nothing more then a good player being paid as a top 3 corner in the league by Danny Snyder. The 3rd round pick is killing people it would be nice but they still got one by letting Danny over pay LC i t is n't at the top of the round but they have one this is not a big deal even if he pulls the tag.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 23, 2020 10:27:24 GMT -5
I don't have an issue tagging him if it leads to a long term deal that is way more cap friendly...I do have an issue with him actually playing for the tag number this year. Time will tell Deli........ But...it does appear at this point that Williams is going to hold onto that tag and keep negotiating, as every player tagged as done. That also adds to the overall failure, in my eyes. I expected a deal to have been sketched out in the fall, roughly laid out before the trade
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:27:51 GMT -5
Picking up a free agent is great...even on a bad team. Pay him a few million and give him a chance to settle in to our team. That's all good.
Giving up two picks on a rebuilding team and then franchising him at that huge number isn't the same thing.
They are two separate things: The picks are gone. The question is does it make sense to sign Williams to a long term deal? And if you are wondering, the fact that the picks are gone should be a fireable offense, in my eyes. I'm sure Dave has been trying to sign him....quite desperately I would imagine. It's not a matter of a willingness to sign him. It seems the sides are far apart.
It takes two. Now the kid is guaranteed $16+MM in 2020. He has a lot of leverage. 1. He has $16MM in his pocket if he wants it. 2. He knows the pressure Dave is under to sign him.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:28:24 GMT -5
His tag # is an overpay. Dave "tagged" him to save face. There was no chance he wouldn't be tagged.
You don't pay a 3/4 DE who can't get to the QB over $16MM. It's called doubling down on a mistake....which we all knew Dave was going to do.
Dave don't give a rats ass what me you the media thinks this is not over. Josh Norman was franchised DG removed the tag when there was no chance to agree a reasonable number. That was the right move Norman was nothing more then a good player being paid as a top 3 corner in the league by Danny Snyder. The 3rd round pick is killing people it would be nice but they still got one by letting Danny over pay LC i t is n't at the top of the round but they have one this is not a big deal even if he pulls the tag. He cares very dearly what John Mara and Steve Tisch think.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 23, 2020 10:30:39 GMT -5
He obviously was not a "rental." They just franchised him. His tag # is an overpay. Dave "tagged" him to save face. There was no chance he wouldn't be tagged.
You don't pay a 3/4 DE who can't get to the QB over $16MM. It's called doubling down on a mistake....which we all knew Dave was going to do.
I agree, if we end up actually paying him the tag number. I'll reevaluate if he signs him to a reasonable long term deal.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 23, 2020 10:32:04 GMT -5
Picking up a free agent is great...even on a bad team. Pay him a few million and give him a chance to settle in to our team. That's all good.
Giving up two picks on a rebuilding team and then franchising him at that huge number isn't the same thing.
They are two separate things: The picks are gone. The question is does it make sense to sign Williams to a long term deal? And if you are wondering, the fact that the picks are gone should be a fireable offense, in my eyes. the picks are gone and Gettlemen is not fired. Both water under the bridge. The only way its made any better is LW signs for a good deal and plays very well. other than that its like selling a stock when you've already lost money instead of reinvesting and trying to make it worth it. Thats my take. Of course you can cut ties and accept the loss but IMO Williams will play very well for the NYGs Only
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 23, 2020 10:32:59 GMT -5
They are two separate things: The picks are gone. The question is does it make sense to sign Williams to a long term deal? And if you are wondering, the fact that the picks are gone should be a fireable offense, in my eyes. I'm sure Dave has been trying to sign him....quite desperately I would imagine. It's not a matter of a willingness to sign him. It seems the sides are far apart.
It takes two. Now the kid is guaranteed $16+MM in 2020. He has a lot of leverage. 1. He has $16MM in his pocket if he wants it. 2. He knows the pressure Dave is under to sign him.
But a 3 year deal, even at the $12MM I figure, would put more in his pocket and remove risk of injury. I assume that's why no player ever signs that the day they are tagged. I don't look at the lull now as a horrible thing negotiation wise - this is the way it is with every tagged player - but the overall position is a failure.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 23, 2020 10:35:09 GMT -5
They are two separate things: The picks are gone. The question is does it make sense to sign Williams to a long term deal? And if you are wondering, the fact that the picks are gone should be a fireable offense, in my eyes. the picks are gone and Gettlemen is not fired. Both water under the bridge. The only way its made any better is LW signs for a good deal and plays very well. other than that its like selling a stock when you've already lost money instead of reinvesting and trying to make it worth it. Thats my take. Of course you can cut ties and accept the loss but IMO Williams will play very well for the NYGs That's all there is to it.
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