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Post by bringsimmsback on Feb 10, 2020 6:25:27 GMT -5
Most websites I've checked list him as a DT. Obviously not as attractive if he is considered a DE but don't forget the transition tag keeps the Giants in the driver's seat as well. If he’s wrong, he’ll just change his screen name again.... To be fair, he may be right. I'm not sure how Williams will be designated regarding his position.I have less of an issue, either way, because I'd pay 15 mill for him but I can see why some don't think he is worth it and wouldn't want to pay the 15 transition tag a DE would get.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 7:50:26 GMT -5
Advantage is always with the payer. The paying entity always has the ultimate choice on what it is willing to give. The recipient only has a guess if the grass is greener or not for them. " the truth" is the paying party always has the next man up contingent. The recipient only has a gamble if they will receive an equal or better offer . Williams has a slightly different position: he could, in theory, shop his services knowing the Giants will outbid them. Of course, if he wants the money, the Giants only need to beat that price by a million of so, if that. If he doesn't, the Giants are ****ed. Here's the one thing I know: Williams is about to become the first FA who was overpaid. Dave's history has been here is the amount or walk. He has been known to do that.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 7:51:53 GMT -5
Advantage is always with the payer. The paying entity always has the ultimate choice on what it is willing to give. The recipient only has a guess if the grass is greener or not for them. " the truth" is the paying party always has the next man up contingent. The recipient only has a gamble if they will receive an equal or better offer . Not sure you understand how leverage works. As a FA, Williams has the leverage. Now as a FA who has a team foolishly trading valuable draft picks (3rd and 4th/5th) to secure your services for 8 games you now have a lot more leverage in negotiations with that team. Williams can take any deal offered in FA and take it back to the Giants as he knows the Giants will overcompensate to try and save face and not have their draft capital flushed down the toilet for literally...... nothing. the "payer" does not have the leverage in this negotiation in particular. Williams has it all. Carl he has none. Gettleman will not let him take the Giants to the cleaners.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 8:13:36 GMT -5
Doesnt mean it isnt correct though. Especially his asking price to the Giants since we have draft picks already invested in him and he has the leverage. The whole leverage thing is an illusion The 3rd that is given could be the Collins comp pick and a 4th next year if signed or a 5th if not. No big deal. Where have you read that it could be the comp pick? I've heard this thrown out there but you won't post something without the proof so I'm asking for that.. Thanks..
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 8:16:57 GMT -5
The whole leverage thing is an illusion The 3rd that is given could be the Collins comp pick and a 4th next year if signed or a 5th if not. No big deal. Where have you read that it could be the comp pick? I've heard this thrown out there but you won't post something without the proof so I'm asking for that.. Thanks.. post 29
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 8:22:52 GMT -5
Where have you read that it could be the comp pick? I've heard this thrown out there but you won't post something without the proof so I'm asking for that.. Thanks.. post 29 That says nothing about the traded pick being for the comp pick if awarded. Unlike you to make stuff up without a source to back the information..
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 8:32:41 GMT -5
That says nothing about the traded pick being for the comp pick if awarded. Unlike you to make stuff up without a source to back the information.. OK I have that also . it does not state anything except "a" 3 round pick. From post 36 "The Giants will be sending a third-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft and a fifth-round pick in the 2021 Draft to the Jets. That fifth-round pick actually becomes a fourth-round pick if the Giants are able to sign Williams to a contract extension, a source told Vacchiano"
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Post by GameTime on Feb 10, 2020 8:50:36 GMT -5
I thought he may get $15 mil the day we traded for him and felt like he would be worth it. Based on what I've read of what he does against the run and with getting pressure on the QB from up the middle, I think he makes the entire defense better without looking flashy himself. He is a top 5 player against the run and a top 10 player when it comes to impacting the QB. For those who insist on getting a bargain and confident he won't get $15mil on the open market, transition tag him and let him walk if he gets past $12 million. For my part, he will be a bargain at 15 million in a few years, so I say sign him. Since he is a young, high character guy from all accounts, front load a 5-year deal to make CAP management easier down the road. How can this even be remotely true!!?? Gettleman is an idiot who has no idea what he is doing!! On the surface the trade seems odd and still does but you shed come common sense on it. How dare you!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 8:59:42 GMT -5
That says nothing about the traded pick being for the comp pick if awarded. Unlike you to make stuff up without a source to back the information.. OK I have that also . it does not state anything except "a" 3 round pick. From post 36 "The Giants will be sending a third-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft and a fifth-round pick in the 2021 Draft to the Jets. That fifth-round pick actually becomes a fourth-round pick if the Giants are able to sign Williams to a contract extension, a source told Vacchiano"
It would be great if it was the comp pick and not their proper selection at the top of the round. Still another stupid Getty trade..
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 9:02:09 GMT -5
I think we are giving up on Carter and guys like Xman way to soon sign golden back or a guy like fowler dip back in the draft and keep building nothing wrong with developing pass rushers 3rd and 4th rounders start to pay off. I agree. I think our pass rush can keep getting better with them gaining experience. I think their ceiling is probably about where Golden is, which is fine. We don't have that Strahan potential for 20 sacks / 100+ sack career type guy and I don't think we get him this year. Think Xman has a chance depending on the strength he adds, he has the moves and tools but I think he is a full 3 year project. He will produce don't get me wrong but he will still grow. Much like Carter did last year his first year starting he was a different player by the end of the year and hopefully he keeps progressing through this his 3rd season.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 9:12:26 GMT -5
I thought he may get $15 mil the day we traded for him and felt like he would be worth it. Based on what I've read of what he does against the run and with getting pressure on the QB from up the middle, I think he makes the entire defense better without looking flashy himself. He is a top 5 player against the run and a top 10 player when it comes to impacting the QB. For those who insist on getting a bargain and confident he won't get $15mil on the open market, transition tag him and let him walk if he gets past $12 million. For my part, he will be a bargain at 15 million in a few years, so I say sign him. Since he is a young, high character guy from all accounts, front load a 5-year deal to make CAP management easier down the road. How can this even be remotely true!!?? Gettleman is an idiot who has no idea what he is doing!! On the surface the trade seems odd and still does but you shed come common sense on it. How dare you!!! In the end they If they are gonna pay someone it might as well be the devil they know. They have seen Williams up close at every position on the DL in both fronts and how he conducts himself in the locker room. When he came on board others starting to shine because he and Lawrence were eating people up. if you look at this through a clear lens not agenda based it was odd but there is some pretty forward thinking with this trade. And a little protection with a comp pick possibility.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 9:17:53 GMT -5
I agree. I think our pass rush can keep getting better with them gaining experience. I think their ceiling is probably about where Golden is, which is fine. We don't have that Strahan potential for 20 sacks / 100+ sack career type guy and I don't think we get him this year. Too bad we won in OT vs Washington... That potentially 20 sack guy could have been had. Unfortunately for us. The players and coaches are playing for their jobs hoping to either put good tape out there or be retained if they can keep their coach employed.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 9:22:23 GMT -5
OK I have that also . it does not state anything except "a" 3 round pick. From post 36 "The Giants will be sending a third-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft and a fifth-round pick in the 2021 Draft to the Jets. That fifth-round pick actually becomes a fourth-round pick if the Giants are able to sign Williams to a contract extension, a source told Vacchiano"
It would be great if it was the comp pick and not their proper selection at the top of the round. Still another stupid Getty trade..The final chapter in that book has not been written as of yet. Nothing has changed from the moment of the trade. No one knows outside the FO how this is going to play out. One think I have observed. ( in a good way) The information coming out of the FO is nondescript. It seems the leaks have been pugged up.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 9:25:55 GMT -5
Not sure you understand how leverage works. As a FA, Williams has the leverage. Now as a FA who has a team foolishly trading valuable draft picks (3rd and 4th/5th) to secure your services for 8 games you now have a lot more leverage in negotiations with that team. Williams can take any deal offered in FA and take it back to the Giants as he knows the Giants will overcompensate to try and save face and not have their draft capital flushed down the toilet for literally...... nothing. the "payer" does not have the leverage in this negotiation in particular. Williams has it all. Carl he has none. Gettleman will not let him take the Giants to the cleaners. The Jets took him to the cleaners - why wouldn't Williams?
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 9:31:45 GMT -5
That says nothing about the traded pick being for the comp pick if awarded. Unlike you to make stuff up without a source to back the information.. OK I have that also . it does not state anything except "a" 3 round pick. From post 36 "The Giants will be sending a third-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft and a fifth-round pick in the 2021 Draft to the Jets. That fifth-round pick actually becomes a fourth-round pick if the Giants are able to sign Williams to a contract extension, a source told Vacchiano"
We have traded our original 3rd rounder ... not the compensatory pick (that we have not even received yet).
Not sure why this is even a discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 9:34:34 GMT -5
It would be great if it was the comp pick and not their proper selection at the top of the round. Still another stupid Getty trade.. The final chapter in that book has not been written as of yet. Nothing has changed from the moment of the trade. No one knows outside the FO how this is going to play out. One think I have observed. ( in a good way) The information coming out of the FO is nondescript. It seems the leaks have been pugged up. I'm with you that Getty will probably make a few more bad trades before they fire his ass!! I can't believe they didn't show him the door along with the rest of them!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 9:35:57 GMT -5
OK I have that also . it does not state anything except "a" 3 round pick. From post 36 "The Giants will be sending a third-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft and a fifth-round pick in the 2021 Draft to the Jets. That fifth-round pick actually becomes a fourth-round pick if the Giants are able to sign Williams to a contract extension, a source told Vacchiano"
We have traded our original 3rd rounder ... not the compensatory pick (that we have not even received yet).
Not sure why this is even a discussion.
I agree but some fans are reporting it could very well be the comp pick. TEM usually has solid information and I was hoping that was the case with this but as you know it's not..
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 9:37:48 GMT -5
Carl he has none. Gettleman will not let him take the Giants to the cleaners. The Jets took him to the cleaners - why wouldn't Williams? How were we taken to the cleaners for 2 mid round picks and the Jets ate most of the remainder contract ? We have given up more sheading contracts.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 9:39:49 GMT -5
OK I have that also . it does not state anything except "a" 3 round pick. From post 36 "The Giants will be sending a third-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft and a fifth-round pick in the 2021 Draft to the Jets. That fifth-round pick actually becomes a fourth-round pick if the Giants are able to sign Williams to a contract extension, a source told Vacchiano"
We have traded our original 3rd rounder ... not the compensatory pick (that we have not even received yet).
Not sure why this is even a discussion.
Show me where it states that? I have already provide proof that it doesn't.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 9:40:50 GMT -5
We have traded our original 3rd rounder ... not the compensatory pick (that we have not even received yet).
Not sure why this is even a discussion.
Show me where it states that? I have already provide proof that it doesn't. Stop it.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 10, 2020 9:43:49 GMT -5
Personally I feel Williams would be a solid player on the DLine. But lets see what happens in FA ? Who knows if we can find any top player who even wants to come to a perennial loser. We probably have to overpay whoever we sign to come here. The last 3 years we average a 4-12 record. We might be lucky to talk anyone into believing this 3rd coaching regime in the last 4 years is the one to hitch your wagon to.
You all might be damn glad if we could talk Williams into staying here.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 9:47:28 GMT -5
Show me where it states that? I have already provide proof that it doesn't. Stop it. Stop it? What part of this don't you understand? "The Giants will be sending a third-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft" Prove I am wrong. If you are going to say I am at least have the evidence to back it up.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 9:48:41 GMT -5
The Jets took him to the cleaners - why wouldn't Williams? How were we taken to the cleaners for 2 mid round picks and the Jets ate most of the remainder contract ? We have given up more sheading contracts. He traded a top of the 3rd round pick and another pick (4th or 5th round) to get a player on an expiring contract for a team that was going nowhere last season. It's the kind of trade that should have netted the Jets a conditional 7th rounder.
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Post by Delicreep on Feb 10, 2020 9:49:07 GMT -5
We have traded our original 3rd rounder ... not the compensatory pick (that we have not even received yet).
Not sure why this is even a discussion.
Show me where it states that? I have already provide proof that it doesn't. nypost.com/2019/12/31/dave-gettleman-finally-explains-giants-confusing-leonard-williams-trade/Thanks to Landon Collins signing with the Redskins, the Giants likely will recoup a third-rounder in 2020 when the NFL hands out compensatory picks next month. But that pick will be about 30 spots lower than the one dealt to the Jets.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 9:49:52 GMT -5
How were we taken to the cleaners for 2 mid round picks and the Jets ate most of the remainder contract ? We have given up more sheading contracts. He traded a top of the 3rd round pick and another pick (4th or 5th round) to get a player on an expiring contract for a team that was going nowhere last season. It's the kind of trade that should have netted the Jets a conditional 7th rounder.
According to Who?
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 9:53:54 GMT -5
That is not the way the original deal was written. A 3rd round pick
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 9:53:55 GMT -5
We have traded our original 3rd rounder ... not the compensatory pick (that we have not even received yet).
Not sure why this is even a discussion.
Show me where it states that? I have already provide proof that it doesn't. We had one third round draft pick. What pick exactly do you think that we traded to the Jets?
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 9:55:52 GMT -5
Show me where it states that? I have already provide proof that it doesn't. We had one third round draft pick. What pick exactly do you think that we traded to the Jets? A third round pick is a pick in the 3rd round. The way it written was ambiguous.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 10, 2020 9:58:45 GMT -5
How can this even be remotely true!!?? Gettleman is an idiot who has no idea what he is doing!! On the surface the trade seems odd and still does but you shed come common sense on it. How dare you!!! In the end they If they are gonna pay someone it might as well be the devil they know. They have seen Williams up close at every position on the DL in both fronts and how he conducts himself in the locker room. When he came on board others starting to shine because he and Lawrence were eating people up. if you look at this through a clear lens not agenda based it was odd but there is some pretty forward thinking with this trade. And a little protection with a comp pick possibility. it has a gamble factor to it as well. As many personnel choices do.
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Post by McCherry on Feb 10, 2020 10:04:36 GMT -5
That is not the way the original deal was written. A 3rd round pick “The” 3rd round pick. This was discussed at length after the trade.
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