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Post by TEM on Mar 1, 2020 15:33:41 GMT -5
Well it is a risky deal whether they will ever be elite at anyone position for a 4th overall if he were an Elite LB and and just good at the other stuff he is worth it. he has everything a player needs to play all those spots he has the tools can he use them. If he is going to be this Swiss Army knife type of player in the NFL, it will take: (1) the right coaching staff; (2) super hard work on his part to learn the assignments at multiple positions; and (3) a high level of football intelligence to learn and master the assignments at multiple positions. +1000 Your best post this year
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 1, 2020 15:34:35 GMT -5
For me it was a hard no before now I wouldn't go nuts if they drafted him at 4 that would be saved for if he busts How do draft someone at the top of the draft without knowing what he excels at. Safety 218 snaps Slot corner 286 snaps MLB 160 snaps OLB 120 snaps Corner 17 snaps. What do you draft this guy as? Bugs against the Gashouse Gorillas? I don't agree with this thought Simmons won't have a true position in the NFL. The fact he has the body of a LB, but can move like a DB, is a positive....not a negative, in my opinion. To me, Simmons is an ideal WLB. He's instinctive, very quick to react, and has incredible sideline to sideline range. If we draft him, let him use these traits to pursue and chase down ball carriers, or to cover TE/RB/Slot WR's on passing plays. Not my #1 choice, but a hell of a weapon to have playing behind our presumed DL. Also, great reference with Bugs.....classic.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 1, 2020 15:34:46 GMT -5
I don't know if they are gonna draft him. I still want tackle but if they did I wouldn't be on here the next day slaying Gettlemen LB is a huge need also and a side line to side line guy like this guy is hard to find. I want an OT also. Dave know what is best. He has had good drafts so far. some of us might not get what we want but this draft at the top is really good. Their gonna have a great corner prospect or a great LB prospect or a great OL prospect sitting there at 4 plus some interior guys which we don't need but these guys are all legit.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 15:36:12 GMT -5
Well you would clearly draft him as an line backer that you can move around. With the Giants having a good amount of big bodied dline I think they would keep him clean and let him make plays! I remember judge saying that he liked to look at what a player can do vs what he does in a specific role. It looks like he can do a lot. dont try to make sense of things, our highly credible couch gm’s know all. You come in here and bitch about my behavior and then you act like a raging douchbag when me or others actually have logical questions about a player that has an undefined role and has on tape many instances of having bad instincts or making bad reads Look in the ****ing mirror before you throw a bitch fit about my behavior when you and others do the same exact thing because someone dares to question your man crush And FYI,maybe you need to attack Bavarobeast,TEM,and numerous others who share my opinion So do me a favor Shut the **** up if you are going to be a dick twards me because I dare to have a logical question about your man crush,or hit the block button because it's obvious you get easily triggered when I bring up these concerns Kthanx
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 15:37:45 GMT -5
How do draft someone at the top of the draft without knowing what he excels at. Safety 218 snaps Slot corner 286 snaps MLB 160 snaps OLB 120 snaps Corner 17 snaps. What do you draft this guy as? Bugs against the Gashouse Gorillas? Well you would clearly draft him as an line backer that you can move around. With the Giants having a good amount of big bodied dline I think they would keep him clean and let him make plays! I remember judge saying that he liked to look at what a player can do vs what he does in a specific role. It looks like he can do a lot. And he has an undefined role that nobody knows how to use
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 1, 2020 15:39:04 GMT -5
Well it is a risky deal whether they will ever be elite at anyone position for a 4th overall if he were an Elite LB and and just good at the other stuff he is worth it. he has everything a player needs to play all those spots he has the tools can he use them. If he is going to be this Swiss Army knife type of player in the NFL, it will take: (1) the right coaching staff; (2) super hard work on his part to learn the assignments at multiple positions; and (3) a high level of football intelligence to learn and master the assignments at multiple positions. Exactly the tool box is full this is what they are doing in those meeting trying to see what his football IQ is and his work ethic is like. One thing he seems to embrace the swiss army knife role.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 15:39:43 GMT -5
Funny how some view his versatility as a negative when it is the actual reason why he is rated so highly. Well it is a risky deal whether they will ever be elite at anyone position for a 4th overall if he were an Elite LB and and just good at the other stuff he is worth it. he has everything a player needs to play all those spots he has the tools can he use them. This is why I think Bush and White were much better prospects last year ... And both have excelled because they were drafted for their role
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 1, 2020 15:40:47 GMT -5
i saw this thread coming...... If we could trade back a couple of spots and get him and an OL, then I get a DG tattoo
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 15:46:30 GMT -5
Well it is a risky deal whether they will ever be elite at anyone position for a 4th overall if he were an Elite LB and and just good at the other stuff he is worth it. he has everything a player needs to play all those spots he has the tools can he use them. If he is going to be this Swiss Army knife type of player in the NFL, it will take: (1) the right coaching staff; (2) super hard work on his part to learn the assignments at multiple positions; and (3) a high level of football intelligence to learn and master the assignments at multiple positions. And honestly it could take 3 years for him to start to hit his stride in what he actually does well.. Way too many factors for him to be what some think he can be to risk taking in the 4-6 area of the draft Also Im going to compare him to an OT/even a DT... Simmons is going to be highly dependent on having a top D line in front of him because one of his drawbacks is he has trouble getting off of blocks (Dobbins long TD run the reciever blocking him in the slot had him blocked long enough to where he couldnt get in the play in time) Take one of the tackles.....even if he doesn't live up to expectations,that guy is going to help the entire offense be better because the qb has time to throw,Barkley can hit holes and recievers have time to get open. I'd rather have one of the tackles
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 1, 2020 15:46:55 GMT -5
Thats why I say I defer to the front office if they think so I believe them they have seen the best of best and been part of drafting the best of the best. It doesn't matter what any of us think anyway . The FO is going to do what they see as the best fit for the team. This is what is great about the offseason we all get to voice our Armchair GM opinions. This couldn't be more wrong. It's a known fact the Mara, Tisch, DG, and now Judge, all look at the polls on this very message board and base their selections on them.........
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 1, 2020 15:50:05 GMT -5
Well it is a risky deal whether they will ever be elite at anyone position for a 4th overall if he were an Elite LB and and just good at the other stuff he is worth it. he has everything a player needs to play all those spots he has the tools can he use them. This is why I think Bush and White were much better prospects last year ... And both have excelled because they were drafted for their role I think if they draft him he will be at WLB and that will be his base but he will cover TEs and go to the Slot as he learns his responsibilities would expand Think Honey Badger just bigger faster. I still like an OT at 4 without moving but I wouldn't mind or complain especially with a LB prospect being it has been devalued by this franchise the last 15 years or more probably more like 20.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 1, 2020 16:04:16 GMT -5
If he is going to be this Swiss Army knife type of player in the NFL, it will take: (1) the right coaching staff; (2) super hard work on his part to learn the assignments at multiple positions; and (3) a high level of football intelligence to learn and master the assignments at multiple positions. And honestly it could take 3 years for him to start to hit his stride in what he actually does well.. Way too many factors for him to be what some think he can be to risk taking in the 4-6 area of the draft Also Im going to compare him to an OT/even a DT... Simmons is going to be highly dependent on having a top D line in front of him because one of his drawbacks is he has trouble getting off of blocks (Dobbins long TD run the reciever blocking him in the slot had him blocked long enough to where he couldnt get in the play in time) Take one of the tackles.....even if he doesn't live up to expectations,that guy is going to help the entire offense be better because the qb has time to throw,Barkley can hit holes and recievers have time to get open. I'd rather have one of the tackles I am open to drafting Simmons, but I feel like Gettleman will go for the OT. I would be fine with either selection
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 16:09:00 GMT -5
This is why I think Bush and White were much better prospects last year ... And both have excelled because they were drafted for their role I think if they draft him he will be at WLB and that will be his base but he will cover TEs and go to the Slot as he learns his responsibilities would expand Think Honey Badger just bigger faster. I still like an OT at 4 without moving but I wouldn't mind or complain especially with a LB prospect being it has been devalued by this franchise the last 15 years or more probably more like 20. So when the tackles get picked clean by day 2 of guys that can start day one then what? Jones is the priority,its an inconvenient truth that many dont want to accept Year 2 is the most important year in the development of a young qb and he already is at a disadvantage because he has to now learn an entirely new system,so he is still going to be holding on to the ball longer while he is figuring out the new playbook and while the game is still slowing down for him. This is a historically good class of top OTs,one of these guys helps with this period of time and helps Barkley as well,helps our recievers have time to get open(which we still have a dire need for a dynamic playmaker as well ) Gettleman is on the hot seat and Jones' development is paramount. Sign Littleton and we have a better group of LBs Plenty of high level actual good linebacker are found every year in rounds 2-5.
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mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
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Post by mj312 on Mar 1, 2020 18:16:34 GMT -5
Simmons came in bigger faster and even more athletic then anyone anticipated add the multitude of things he can do for a defense he is starting to grow on me. And I am a huge OL DL person, this kid can give some of everything, anyone feeling different about him today now that we saw he can run with anyone and is more explosive then anyone his size should be. I wanted him at 4 before yesterday . I would take him over young .. he’s a freak athlete that can play multiple positions and runs like a deer. Getting this guy will increase our ability to win more than any OL or DL . His ability to pressure the QB from different positions as well as cover backs and tight ends is something we haven’t seen in 10 years on this defense.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 1, 2020 18:49:14 GMT -5
I think if they draft him he will be at WLB and that will be his base but he will cover TEs and go to the Slot as he learns his responsibilities would expand Think Honey Badger just bigger faster. I still like an OT at 4 without moving but I wouldn't mind or complain especially with a LB prospect being it has been devalued by this franchise the last 15 years or more probably more like 20. So when the tackles get picked clean by day 2 of guys that can start day one then what? Jones is the priority,its an inconvenient truth that many dont want to accept Year 2 is the most important year in the development of a young qb and he already is at a disadvantage because he has to now learn an entirely new system,so he is still going to be holding on to the ball longer while he is figuring out the new playbook and while the game is still slowing down for him. This is a historically good class of top OTs,one of these guys helps with this period of time and helps Barkley as well,helps our recievers have time to get open(which we still have a dire need for a dynamic playmaker as well ) Gettleman is on the hot seat and Jones' development is paramount. Sign Littleton and we have a better group of LBs Plenty of high level actual good linebacker are found every year in rounds 2-5. I did say I prefer a tackle first I do think this is a real possibility. Getting the OL sorted out helps the defense to by keeping the ball in our offenses hands. Some think Garret can't use SQB like he did Zeke that is the biggest crock of Horse $#!t out there. Barkely Runs as hard with power breaking tackles and stiff arming people to the ground, is faster and is more multi dimensional. he will eat clock with an OL up grade and score double digit TDs he will do that anyway.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 19:00:44 GMT -5
So when the tackles get picked clean by day 2 of guys that can start day one then what? Jones is the priority,its an inconvenient truth that many dont want to accept Year 2 is the most important year in the development of a young qb and he already is at a disadvantage because he has to now learn an entirely new system,so he is still going to be holding on to the ball longer while he is figuring out the new playbook and while the game is still slowing down for him. This is a historically good class of top OTs,one of these guys helps with this period of time and helps Barkley as well,helps our recievers have time to get open(which we still have a dire need for a dynamic playmaker as well ) Gettleman is on the hot seat and Jones' development is paramount. Sign Littleton and we have a better group of LBs Plenty of high level actual good linebacker are found every year in rounds 2-5. I did say I prefer a tackle first I do think this is a real possibility. Getting the OL sorted out helps the defense to by keeping the ball in our offenses hands. Some think Garret can't use SQB like he did Zeke that is the biggest crock of Horse $#!t out there. Barkely Runs as hard with power breaking tackles and stiff arming people to the ground, is faster and is more multi dimensional. he will eat clock with an OL up grade and score double digit TDs he will do that anyway. This offense can be a juggernaut if we get the pieces McGovern at C (or a draft pick) A fab 4 OT Mims or someone.... You now have sick dynamic speed outside A good oline Out of a 12 with Engram and Smith... If Jones is legit we can score at will and hold the ball... That makes opposing offenses one dimensional,with a well rested defense...
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Post by giantstepz on Mar 2, 2020 19:19:09 GMT -5
Every time I watch Lawrence Taylor highlight videos I want a linebacker to come and save this team just like LT used to do - a one-man wrecking crew. Not that there is anyone who will be him exactly but someone his side and speed and strength to disrupt an offense. LT was 6'-3", 238 lbs. Isaiah Simmons is 6'-4" , 238 lbs. Taylor's Combine 40 time was 4.70. Simmons' was 4.39. Dare I dream that this kid could be the athletic play-maker to turn the low-rent defense into a feared obstacle to success for opposing offenses? He is said to be a generational talent - like Saquon - "touched by the hand of god".....can we afford to pass him by for a hog molly? We could use so many of the top prospects - OL, edge, LB, CB, WR, as well as TE.....can we have more picks please?
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 2, 2020 21:00:27 GMT -5
For me it was a hard no before now I wouldn't go nuts if they drafted him at 4 that would be saved for if he busts How do draft someone at the top of the draft without knowing what he excels at. Safety 218 snaps Slot corner 286 snaps MLB 160 snaps OLB 120 snaps Corner 17 snaps. What do you draft this guy as? Bugs against the Gashouse Gorillas? And you know with this guys size, hands, and flat out speed why haven't we played this guy at WR ?
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 2, 2020 21:15:48 GMT -5
Funny how some view his versatility as a negative when it is the actual reason why he is rated so highly. Giants fans - "Out LBs can't cover anyone, we have to fix this crap" Also Giants fans - "No way should we draft a LB that can cover like a CB"
Me -
If we don't draft Simmons it is either A) Young fell to us, B) Detroit took Simmons or C) we decided to go OT in round 1. We won't pass on him because our coaches are confused about how to play him. BTW this is the exact reason he ended up at Clemson, the other colleges he wanted to go to didn't offer him a scholarship because they were befuddled on how to possibly use this guy, Brent Venables (one of the brightest DCs in college) didn't have this issue. Let's hope our coaches aren't as confused as our fan base.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 2, 2020 21:20:14 GMT -5
Every time I watch Lawrence Taylor highlight videos I want a linebacker to come and save this team just like LT used to do - a one-man wrecking crew. Not that there is anyone who will be him exactly but someone his side and speed and strength to disrupt an offense. LT was 6'-3", 238 lbs. Isaiah Simmons is 6'-4" , 238 lbs. Taylor's Combine 40 time was 4.70. Simmons' was 4.39. Dare I dream that this kid could be the athletic play-maker to turn the low-rent defense into a feared obstacle to success for opposing offenses? He is said to be a generational talent - like Saquon - "touched by the hand of god".....can we afford to pass him by for a hog molly? We could use so many of the top prospects - OL, edge, LB, CB, WR, as well as TE.....can we have more picks please? I would be happy with taking an OT because that will help this team drastically. However I look at Simmons and I see a player that can be a top of the league All Pro type game changer. A guy with Hall of Fame potential if he lives up to his ability. When I look at the OTs I see very good players that will undoubtedly help this team, but I don't see all world next level stuff.
At pick 4 I personally would swing for the fences. I still think Detroit takes him at 3 though. But then again the Skins might go QB lol.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 2, 2020 21:39:16 GMT -5
Funny how some view his versatility as a negative when it is the actual reason why he is rated so highly. Giants fans - "Out LBs can't cover anyone, we have to fix this crap" Also Giants fans - "No way should we draft a LB that can cover like a CB"
Me -
If we don't draft Simmons it is either A) Young fell to us, B) Detroit took Simmons or C) we decided to go OT in round 1. We won't pass on him because our coaches are confused about how to play him. BTW this is the exact reason he ended up at Clemson, the other colleges he wanted to go to didn't offer him a scholarship because they were befuddled on how to possibly use this guy, Brent Venables (one of the brightest DCs in college) didn't have this issue. Let's hope our coaches aren't as confused as our fan base.
I mean Judge has preached versatility and multiple schemes, so it would seem weird if he passed on Simmons because of his versatility....
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 2, 2020 22:29:23 GMT -5
I mean Judge has preached versatility and multiple schemes, so it would seem weird if he passed on Simmons because of his versatility.... But does a guy with 100 snaps at 4 different positions really fit into a versatility based defense
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 2, 2020 22:44:34 GMT -5
Funny how some view his versatility as a negative when it is the actual reason why he is rated so highly. Giants fans - "Out LBs can't cover anyone, we have to fix this crap" Also Giants fans - "No way should we draft a LB that can cover like a CB"
Me -
If we don't draft Simmons it is either A) Young fell to us, B) Detroit took Simmons or C) we decided to go OT in round 1. We won't pass on him because our coaches are confused about how to play him. BTW this is the exact reason he ended up at Clemson, the other colleges he wanted to go to didn't offer him a scholarship because they were befuddled on how to possibly use this guy, Brent Venables (one of the brightest DCs in college) didn't have this issue. Let's hope our coaches aren't as confused as our fan base.
Ironically his dream college was Arkansas. He didn't get a scholarship there because Bret Bielema didn't know how to use him. ... Yes , the same Bret Bielema that is currently the OLB coach of the Giants.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 3, 2020 5:28:19 GMT -5
Giants fans - "Out LBs can't cover anyone, we have to fix this crap" Also Giants fans - "No way should we draft a LB that can cover like a CB"
Me -
If we don't draft Simmons it is either A) Young fell to us, B) Detroit took Simmons or C) we decided to go OT in round 1. We won't pass on him because our coaches are confused about how to play him. BTW this is the exact reason he ended up at Clemson, the other colleges he wanted to go to didn't offer him a scholarship because they were befuddled on how to possibly use this guy, Brent Venables (one of the brightest DCs in college) didn't have this issue. Let's hope our coaches aren't as confused as our fan base.
Ironically his dream college was Arkansas. He didn't get a scholarship there because Bret Bielema didn't know how to use him. ... Yes , the same Bret Bielema that is currently the OLB coach of the Giants.
Where does it say in that article that he didn’t get a scholarship at Arkansas because Bielema didn’t know how to use him?
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Post by TEM on Mar 3, 2020 7:22:02 GMT -5
How do draft someone at the top of the draft without knowing what he excels at. Safety 218 snaps Slot corner 286 snaps MLB 160 snaps OLB 120 snaps Corner 17 snaps. What do you draft this guy as? Bugs against the Gashouse Gorillas? And you know with this guys size, hands, and flat out speed why haven't we played this guy at WR ? That is the problem I see in grading him. What is he?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2020 9:53:23 GMT -5
Funny how some view his versatility as a negative when it is the actual reason why he is rated so highly. Giants fans - "Out LBs can't cover anyone, we have to fix this crap" Also Giants fans - "No way should we draft a LB that can cover like a CB"
Me -
If we don't draft Simmons it is either A) Young fell to us, B) Detroit took Simmons or C) we decided to go OT in round 1. We won't pass on him because our coaches are confused about how to play him. BTW this is the exact reason he ended up at Clemson, the other colleges he wanted to go to didn't offer him a scholarship because they were befuddled on how to possibly use this guy, Brent Venables (one of the brightest DCs in college) didn't have this issue. Let's hope our coaches aren't as confused as our fan base.
What I will say Mike when they had that little cutup of what Grahm did in Miami, this kid might fit it perfect one down line men everyone else tweeter types standing up in an ameba type defense. Think that was more because of where the talent laid in what was left of their roster after the purge but it sure says he will know what todo with kid like this. As I said I want tackle in a bad way but if they came home with Okdah or this kid I wouldn't complain.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2020 9:55:48 GMT -5
I mean Judge has preached versatility and multiple schemes, so it would seem weird if he passed on Simmons because of his versatility.... But does a guy with 100 snaps at 4 different positions really fit into a versatility based defense
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2020 10:00:39 GMT -5
Every time I watch Lawrence Taylor highlight videos I want a linebacker to come and save this team just like LT used to do - a one-man wrecking crew. Not that there is anyone who will be him exactly but someone his side and speed and strength to disrupt an offense. LT was 6'-3", 238 lbs. Isaiah Simmons is 6'-4" , 238 lbs. Taylor's Combine 40 time was 4.70. Simmons' was 4.39. Dare I dream that this kid could be the athletic play-maker to turn the low-rent defense into a feared obstacle to success for opposing offenses? He is said to be a generational talent - like Saquon - "touched by the hand of god".....can we afford to pass him by for a hog molly? We could use so many of the top prospects - OL, edge, LB, CB, WR, as well as TE.....can we have more picks please? I would be happy with taking an OT because that will help this team drastically. However I look at Simmons and I see a player that can be a top of the league All Pro type game changer. A guy with Hall of Fame potential if he lives up to his ability. When I look at the OTs I see very good players that will undoubtedly help this team, but I don't see all world next level stuff.
At pick 4 I personally would swing for the fences. I still think Detroit takes him at 3 though. But then again the Skins might go QB lol.
I don't know about that the CB is being over looked what I'm hearing if Young wasn't in this draft the clear cut guy would be Okudah. they are calling him a 10 year plug and play guy no PIs last year or holding calls against him last year detroit has a good problem on their hands.
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lamas
Rookie
lurkin since '07
Posts: 28
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Post by lamas on Mar 3, 2020 11:01:52 GMT -5
Ironically his dream college was Arkansas. He didn't get a scholarship there because Bret Bielema didn't know how to use him. ... Yes , the same Bret Bielema that is currently the OLB coach of the Giants.
Where does it say in that article that he didn’t get a scholarship at Arkansas because Bielema didn’t know how to use him? “He took me in there with the head coach, and I was like, ‘Coach, I want to be here if you’ll have me. If you’ll offer me a scholarship I’ll commit.’ And I guess they just didn’t know what position I was,” Simmons said.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 3, 2020 11:07:59 GMT -5
Where does it say in that article that he didn’t get a scholarship at Arkansas because Bielema didn’t know how to use him? “He took me in there with the head coach, and I was like, ‘Coach, I want to be here if you’ll have me. If you’ll offer me a scholarship I’ll commit.’ And I guess they just didn’t know what position I was,” Simmons said. Simmons saying that "I guess they just didn't know what position I was" means that he didn't get a scholarship at Arkansas because Bielema didn't know how to use him?
ok.
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