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Post by snyder55 on Mar 3, 2020 11:13:44 GMT -5
the Giants can throw a dart at the draft board and wherever it sticks will be a need, especially at the #4 pick...
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Post by snyder55 on Mar 3, 2020 11:17:47 GMT -5
who we draft will depend largely on who we pick up in FA.....
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 3, 2020 12:11:26 GMT -5
Ironically his dream college was Arkansas. He didn't get a scholarship there because Bret Bielema didn't know how to use him. ... Yes , the same Bret Bielema that is currently the OLB coach of the Giants.
Where does it say in that article that he didn’t get a scholarship at Arkansas because Bielema didn’t know how to use him? That part was either on the radio or during the combine when they talking to guest. I will see if I can dig it up audio or video when I get time.
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mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
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Post by mj312 on Mar 3, 2020 12:25:04 GMT -5
I did say I prefer a tackle first I do think this is a real possibility. Getting the OL sorted out helps the defense to by keeping the ball in our offenses hands. Some think Garret can't use SQB like he did Zeke that is the biggest crock of Horse $#!t out there. Barkely Runs as hard with power breaking tackles and stiff arming people to the ground, is faster and is more multi dimensional. he will eat clock with an OL up grade and score double digit TDs he will do that anyway. This offense can be a juggernaut if we get the pieces McGovern at C (or a draft pick) A fab 4 OT Mims or someone.... You now have sick dynamic speed outside A good oline Out of a 12 with Engram and Smith... If Jones is legit we can score at will and hold the ball... That makes opposing offenses one dimensional,with a well rested defense... The thing is we don’t lose because our defense is tired .. we lose because our defense sucks and the players just aren’t good enough to pressure the QB and stop the run.. we got gashed by running backs that barely made practice squads .. u can draft 5 stud lineman and if u don’t get pass rushers and good linebackers we will lose any competitive game in the 4th qtr .. the giants defense has turned from a bunch of tough fellas to confidence builders for struggling and rookie QBs .. last year Kirk cousins was on the verge of being benched and he comes into MetLife and dominates and then goes on a tear . Mitch trubinski same exact thing .. then Haskins does well and gets hurt and Keemun comes in and takes us into OT.. the same crap happens over and over year after year .. they have to get legit defensive players or we aren’t winning anything
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 3, 2020 12:26:16 GMT -5
Ironically his dream college was Arkansas. He didn't get a scholarship there because Bret Bielema didn't know how to use him. ... Yes , the same Bret Bielema that is currently the OLB coach of the Giants.
Where does it say in that article that he didn’t get a scholarship at Arkansas because Bielema didn’t know how to use him? "Simmons wasn't looking at Clemson, either. His heart initially was set on Arkansas, but his first visit to campus didn't go well. He had met with some assistants, run an impressive 40-yard dash, then met with head coach Bret Bielema. "I love it here," Simmons told Bielema. "If you have an offer, I'll commit today." Bielema offered the requisite flattery but ended with the same critique Simmons heard too often on the recruiting trail: Arkansas had no idea how to use Simmons, so there would be no offer." www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28176436/how-clemson-isaiah-simmons-became-linebacker-future%3fplatform=amp
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 13:21:27 GMT -5
This offense can be a juggernaut if we get the pieces McGovern at C (or a draft pick) A fab 4 OT Mims or someone.... You now have sick dynamic speed outside A good oline Out of a 12 with Engram and Smith... If Jones is legit we can score at will and hold the ball... That makes opposing offenses one dimensional,with a well rested defense... The thing is we don’t lose because our defense is tired .. we lose because our defense sucks and the players just aren’t good enough to pressure the QB and stop the run.. we got gashed by running backs that barely made practice squads .. u can draft 5 stud lineman and if u don’t get pass rushers and good linebackers we will lose any competitive game in the 4th qtr .. the giants defense has turned from a bunch of tough fellas to confidence builders for struggling and rookie QBs .. last year Kirk cousins was on the verge of being benched and he comes into MetLife and dominates and then goes on a tear . Mitch trubinski same exact thing .. then Haskins does well and gets hurt and Keemun comes in and takes us into OT.. the same crap happens over and over year after year .. they have to get legit defensive players or we aren’t winning anything So basicly you are saying everybody to a man last year sucked,including rookies,and every one of them have to be replaced,at the cost of any chance of Jones,the most important piece on this team,developing because you want to deprive him of any major pieces on the line that are desperately needed to help protect a young qb that is still learning,and another dynamic outside threat to help him make reads and force teams into a 2 deep zone so Barkley can actually be what he can be? Because only allocating the offense a few table scraps in the draft and a crumb or 2 on FA will guarentee this...when the defensive pieces can be added via FA(Littleton at MLB solves that,Logan Ryan,Smith or Byron Jones adds help to the secondary)to a young group that probably has a lot more talent than you are giving them for because of not being used to their strengths.
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 3, 2020 14:00:00 GMT -5
who we draft will depend largely on who we pick up in FA..... Probably as far as pass rusher, maybe corner. Decent tackles are coveted, and they should be gun shy about going FA with this, after the Solder signing.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 14:44:13 GMT -5
who we draft will depend largely on who we pick up in FA..... Probably as far as pass rusher, maybe corner. Decent tackles are coveted, and they should be gun shy about going FA with this, after the Solder signing. This and a historically good OTs class at the top is why the logical thing to do is fix defense as best as we can without stupid money in FA and take the OT we like the most when we pick in the 1st
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 3, 2020 14:56:06 GMT -5
The thing is we don’t lose because our defense is tired .. we lose because our defense sucks and the players just aren’t good enough to pressure the QB and stop the run.. we got gashed by running backs that barely made practice squads .. u can draft 5 stud lineman and if u don’t get pass rushers and good linebackers we will lose any competitive game in the 4th qtr .. the giants defense has turned from a bunch of tough fellas to confidence builders for struggling and rookie QBs .. last year Kirk cousins was on the verge of being benched and he comes into MetLife and dominates and then goes on a tear . Mitch trubinski same exact thing .. then Haskins does well and gets hurt and Keemun comes in and takes us into OT.. the same crap happens over and over year after year .. they have to get legit defensive players or we aren’t winning anything So basicly you are saying everybody to a man last year sucked,including rookies,and every one of them have to be replaced,at the cost of any chance of Jones,the most important piece on this team,developing because you want to deprive him of any major pieces on the line that are desperately needed to help protect a young qb that is still learning,and another dynamic outside threat to help him make reads and force teams into a 2 deep zone so Barkley can actually be what he can be? Because only allocating the offense a few table scraps in the draft and a crumb or 2 on FA will guarentee this...when the defensive pieces can be added via FA(Littleton at MLB solves that,Logan Ryan,Smith or Byron Jones adds help to the secondary)to a young group that probably has a lot more talent than you are giving them for because of not being used to their strengths. Like the regression we saw with our O Line last year, I'm not sure how much of it was based on crappy players vs them being held down by poor coaching and worse schemes? It's really hard to get a good feel for the talent on this team imo.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 15:03:25 GMT -5
So basicly you are saying everybody to a man last year sucked,including rookies,and every one of them have to be replaced,at the cost of any chance of Jones,the most important piece on this team,developing because you want to deprive him of any major pieces on the line that are desperately needed to help protect a young qb that is still learning,and another dynamic outside threat to help him make reads and force teams into a 2 deep zone so Barkley can actually be what he can be? Because only allocating the offense a few table scraps in the draft and a crumb or 2 on FA will guarentee this...when the defensive pieces can be added via FA(Littleton at MLB solves that,Logan Ryan,Smith or Byron Jones adds help to the secondary)to a young group that probably has a lot more talent than you are giving them for because of not being used to their strengths. Like the regression we saw with our O Line last year, I'm not sure how much of it was based on crappy players vs them being held down by poor coaching and worse schemes? It's really hard to get a good feel for the talent on this team imo. Huge difference is that he have a starting LT on fumes and a huge contract..a black hole at RT..and a black hole at C with our starting RG 2 years away from replacement As opposed to. Youth on the D line (bring back Williams,extend Tomlinson and with Lawrence this is set for a while) Youth at edge/LB with some holes(Connelly,Xman and Carter young.. Lots of youth in the secondary (Peppers,a 2nd,4th and 5th spent on Baker,a 3rd on Beal,a 4th on Love and a 6th on Ballentine last year if you count the 3red surrendered using the sup 3re) The side that needs the young infusion of talent is the Oline.. The defense has talent probably in all that youth ..gets some vets and better coaching and it probably automatically jumps up to a mid level defense .. The bottom line is that Jones has to be priority number 1 with surrounding him with as much of a good young core as we can if this team wants to be relevant and in a long win now window for years..Hitting that side of the ball early and often (with a trade back )in a draft that lines up perfectly value wise at all our spots will ensure a very young and talented core around him for 7-10 years While the defense gets its infusion with a deep selection of players in FA at areas of need that can be replaced the following years in the draft ... Cant do this back asswards or the team will be an excersise in malfunction going foward
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Mar 3, 2020 15:47:06 GMT -5
The thing is we don’t lose because our defense is tired .. we lose because our defense sucks and the players just aren’t good enough to pressure the QB and stop the run.. we got gashed by running backs that barely made practice squads .. u can draft 5 stud lineman and if u don’t get pass rushers and good linebackers we will lose any competitive game in the 4th qtr .. the giants defense has turned from a bunch of tough fellas to confidence builders for struggling and rookie QBs .. last year Kirk cousins was on the verge of being benched and he comes into MetLife and dominates and then goes on a tear . Mitch trubinski same exact thing .. then Haskins does well and gets hurt and Keemun comes in and takes us into OT.. the same crap happens over and over year after year .. they have to get legit defensive players or we aren’t winning anything So basicly you are saying everybody to a man last year sucked,including rookies,and every one of them have to be replaced,at the cost of any chance of Jones,the most important piece on this team,developing because you want to deprive him of any major pieces on the line that are desperately needed to help protect a young qb that is still learning,and another dynamic outside threat to help him make reads and force teams into a 2 deep zone so Barkley can actually be what he can be? Because only allocating the offense a few table scraps in the draft and a crumb or 2 on FA will guarentee this...when the defensive pieces can be added via FA(Littleton at MLB solves that,Logan Ryan,Smith or Byron Jones adds help to the secondary)to a young group that probably has a lot more talent than you are giving them for because of not being used to their strengths. Not what I'm saying at all.. I'm saying we drafted Jones at 6 because he was mobile and wasn't the statue that Eli was .. that is what EVERYONE said about Eli.. Eli can't be successful without the perfect offensive line because he can't move and we can't build the rest of the team because we have to commit so many resources to the line to protect Eli and blah blah blah .. no we have a mobile QB and you want to waste a 4 pick that is desperately needed on defense to protect Jones . We paid solder 75 million to suck and that's on gettleman .. take a lineman in the 2nd but this defense needs talent .. the giants are destroying corners year after year because we can't pressure the damn QB.. fans are already saying Baker is a bust .. he's not , but he can't be on an island for 30 seconds either .. Jones is an athlete and we needed an athlete because it's impossible to build a rock solid line in a few years .. is Jones so fragile and frail that he needs the perfect line as to not stunt his growth ? The defense has sucked for 10 years I'd really appreciate if we could fix it without taking mid round projects
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Post by snyder55 on Mar 3, 2020 16:12:51 GMT -5
who we draft will depend largely on who we pick up in FA..... Probably as far as pass rusher, maybe corner. Decent tackles are coveted, and they should be gun shy about going FA with this, after the Solder signing. I agree with you about the Solder deal but I also understand why the deal was made, necessity. But that deal also soured me on paying big bucks for FAs..
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 16:19:56 GMT -5
So basicly you are saying everybody to a man last year sucked,including rookies,and every one of them have to be replaced,at the cost of any chance of Jones,the most important piece on this team,developing because you want to deprive him of any major pieces on the line that are desperately needed to help protect a young qb that is still learning,and another dynamic outside threat to help him make reads and force teams into a 2 deep zone so Barkley can actually be what he can be? Because only allocating the offense a few table scraps in the draft and a crumb or 2 on FA will guarentee this...when the defensive pieces can be added via FA(Littleton at MLB solves that,Logan Ryan,Smith or Byron Jones adds help to the secondary)to a young group that probably has a lot more talent than you are giving them for because of not being used to their strengths. Not what I'm saying at all.. I'm saying we drafted Jones at 6 because he was mobile and wasn't the statue that Eli was .. that is what EVERYONE said about Eli.. Eli can't be successful without the perfect offensive line because he can't move and we can't build the rest of the team because we have to commit so many resources to the line to protect Eli and blah blah blah .. no we have a mobile QB and you want to waste a 4 pick that is desperately needed on defense to protect Jones . We paid solder 75 million to suck and that's on gettleman .. take a lineman in the 2nd but this defense needs talent .. the giants are destroying corners year after year because we can't pressure the damn QB.. fans are already saying Baker is a bust .. he's not , but he can't be on an island for 30 seconds either .. Jones is an athlete and we needed an athlete because it's impossible to build a rock solid line in a few years .. is Jones so fragile and frail that he needs the perfect line as to not stunt his growth ? The defense has sucked for 10 years I'd really appreciate if we could fix it without taking mid round projects So you are saying settle for table scraps for the O line (because OT will be picked clean in the 1st when there is a panic run when teams reach for all the decent day 2 prospects in the 1st)on day 2 because we have to take defense early or hell/fire/brimstone.. The drop off between the big 4 and what will be left is Grand Canyon esque in terms of 4 guys who are instant impacts on the line and hope and prayers We don't have to absolutely positively go defense early Again One more time Littleton is an impact MLB Bring back Golden Bring back Williams Maybe sign Fowler or Bud Dupree.. Much better front 7 Vet corner The priority in this draft has to be O line and weapons later .. They drafted a premier back and a franchise qb.. They have to get the best line up front right now for these players to be behind the next 7-10 years Football 101 Games are won in the trenches,both sides Lawrence,Tomlinson and Williams and the D line is set for at least 4 years You can't win with "just good enough" up front like you are suggesting... BTW We take Simmons at 4 how is he going to help block Chase young twice a year for at least 5 years when the Redskins take him? Just good enough will not be good enough
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 16:23:05 GMT -5
Probably as far as pass rusher, maybe corner. Decent tackles are coveted, and they should be gun shy about going FA with this, after the Solder signing. I agree with you about the Solder deal but I also understand why the deal was made, necessity. But that deal also soured me on paying big bucks for FAs.. Watching the big named OT get badly exposed vs the Chiefs for a tackle that can't be on a team that throws it more than 15-20 times a game when the Titans had to throw it.. Hard pass Draft one of the fab 4
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 16:40:43 GMT -5
Ironically his dream college was Arkansas. He didn't get a scholarship there because Bret Bielema didn't know how to use him. ... Yes , the same Bret Bielema that is currently the OLB coach of the Giants.
Very ironic indeed. Good thing Bret is not our HC or DC that needs to figure out how to use him, he's the guy that needs to make him the best LB possible...if we were to draft him.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 16:43:30 GMT -5
“He took me in there with the head coach, and I was like, ‘Coach, I want to be here if you’ll have me. If you’ll offer me a scholarship I’ll commit.’ And I guess they just didn’t know what position I was,” Simmons said. Simmons saying that "I guess they just didn't know what position I was" means that he didn't get a scholarship at Arkansas because Bielema didn't know how to use him?
ok.
I've heard it from several people on the radio shows. Now that can absolutely be spin. But Nebraska offered him a scholarship as a WR, Michigan offered him a scholarship and said he can play both ways. He was only a 3 star recruit and has said many times most of the teams he talked to didn't know exactly what to do with him. Clemson did and it turned out great.
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Post by snyder55 on Mar 3, 2020 16:44:08 GMT -5
Simmons came in bigger faster and even more athletic then anyone anticipated add the multitude of things he can do for a defense he is starting to grow on me. And I am a huge OL DL person, this kid can give some of everything, anyone feeling different about him today now that we saw he can run with anyone and is more explosive then anyone his size should be. I wanted him at 4 before yesterday . I would take him over young .. he’s a freak athlete that can play multiple positions and runs like a deer. Getting this guy will increase our ability to win more than any OL or DL . His ability to pressure the QB from different positions as well as cover backs and tight ends is something we haven’t seen in 10 years on this defense. I think Simmons is the type of talent we've been missing for years on our defense...
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 16:49:28 GMT -5
I don't know about that the CB is being over looked what I'm hearing if Young wasn't in this draft the clear cut guy would be Okudah. they are calling him a 10 year plug and play guy no PIs last year or holding calls against him last year detroit has a good problem on their hands. CB is one of the most drafted top 5 positions. QB, pass rusher, OT, CB. I'm surprised he doesn't get more hype. Would fit Detroits need perfectly for sure. I just have the feeling Patricia will want Simmons instead.
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Post by snyder55 on Mar 3, 2020 17:14:31 GMT -5
Every time I watch Lawrence Taylor highlight videos I want a linebacker to come and save this team just like LT used to do - a one-man wrecking crew. Not that there is anyone who will be him exactly but someone his side and speed and strength to disrupt an offense. LT was 6'-3", 238 lbs. Isaiah Simmons is 6'-4" , 238 lbs. Taylor's Combine 40 time was 4.70. Simmons' was 4.39. Dare I dream that this kid could be the athletic play-maker to turn the low-rent defense into a feared obstacle to success for opposing offenses? He is said to be a generational talent - like Saquon - "touched by the hand of god".....can we afford to pass him by for a hog molly? We could use so many of the top prospects - OL, edge, LB, CB, WR, as well as TE.....can we have more picks please? I would be happy with taking an OT because that will help this team drastically. However I look at Simmons and I see a player that can be a top of the league All Pro type game changer. A guy with Hall of Fame potential if he lives up to his ability. When I look at the OTs I see very good players that will undoubtedly help this team, but I don't see all world next level stuff.
At pick 4 I personally would swing for the fences. I still think Detroit takes him at 3 though. But then again the Skins might go QB lol.
Simmons is a game changing type player and O tackles are not, its just the way it is and for that reason I hope we are able to draft Simmons..
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 17:34:36 GMT -5
I would be happy with taking an OT because that will help this team drastically. However I look at Simmons and I see a player that can be a top of the league All Pro type game changer. A guy with Hall of Fame potential if he lives up to his ability. When I look at the OTs I see very good players that will undoubtedly help this team, but I don't see all world next level stuff.
At pick 4 I personally would swing for the fences. I still think Detroit takes him at 3 though. But then again the Skins might go QB lol.
Simmons is a game changing type player and O tackles are not, its just the way it is and for that reason I hope we are able to draft Simmons.. [br0 So who is blocking Young twice a year the next 5 years? How is Simmons going to help there? And he has way too many bad plays on tape where his bad instincts made him be out of position for someone to be hyped this badly... I hope Detroit takes him
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 3, 2020 17:38:24 GMT -5
I prefer being safe and taking Andrew Thomas over Simmons
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 3, 2020 17:38:32 GMT -5
I don't know about that the CB is being over looked what I'm hearing if Young wasn't in this draft the clear cut guy would be Okudah. they are calling him a 10 year plug and play guy no PIs last year or holding calls against him last year detroit has a good problem on their hands. CB is one of the most drafted top 5 positions. QB, pass rusher, OT, CB. I'm surprised he doesn't get more hype. Would fit Detroits need perfectly for sure. I just have the feeling Patricia will want Simmons instead. I think Detroit is ripe for trading down. That is when the draft starts. Miami has to keep the Chargers from getting Tua.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 17:41:07 GMT -5
I prefer being safe and taking Andrew Thomas over Simmons Safe and smart Trade down,and of the fab 4 are fine by me
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 3, 2020 17:50:23 GMT -5
I prefer being safe and taking Andrew Thomas over Simmons Safe and smart Trade down,and of the fab 4 are fine by me Just my opinion but I think Simmons is a game changer on defense. I think he's worth the 4th pick.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 18:00:39 GMT -5
CB is one of the most drafted top 5 positions. QB, pass rusher, OT, CB. I'm surprised he doesn't get more hype. Would fit Detroits need perfectly for sure. I just have the feeling Patricia will want Simmons instead. I think Detroit is ripe for trading down. That is when the draft starts. Miami has to keep the Chargers from getting Tua. That is my other thought with Detroit as well. Not sure if they will though. New regime, will be interesting to see what option they take. They would be crazy not to take a trade offer from Miami though, get more picks and still land a top defensive player.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 18:02:11 GMT -5
Simmons is a game changing type player and O tackles are not, its just the way it is and for that reason I hope we are able to draft Simmons.. I think if this was a Joe Thomas LT we would not even be having this discussion. While I think there are a half dozen good OTs in this draft I don't think any of them are that level of good. Time will tell.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 18:04:12 GMT -5
So who is blocking Young twice a year the next 5 years? How is Simmons going to help there? This is like saying "who is going to cover TEs for the next 5 years, how is Becton going to help there".
Obviously Simmons won't be blocking Young haha. If we go D our O will suffer, if we go O our D will suffer. That is the name of the game. Only the O or the D will get better with our first pick.
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mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
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Post by mj312 on Mar 3, 2020 18:31:37 GMT -5
I wanted him at 4 before yesterday . I would take him over young .. he’s a freak athlete that can play multiple positions and runs like a deer. Getting this guy will increase our ability to win more than any OL or DL . His ability to pressure the QB from different positions as well as cover backs and tight ends is something we haven’t seen in 10 years on this defense. I think Simmons is the type of talent we've been missing for years on our defense... Yeah without a doubt .. we haven't had a stud defensive player since jpp.. everyone gets mad when I say it but at least half of our defensive players are rotational players at best .. we draft these players that everyone thinks will develop and just never do .. even in a rookie year when a player makes mistakes u can tell the difference between someone who will be great and is just making rookie mistakes vs someone who just doesn’t have it .. we are way tooo often looking at players that don’t have it
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 18:34:18 GMT -5
Safe and smart Trade down,and of the fab 4 are fine by me Just my opinion but I think Simmons is a game changer on defense. I think he's worth the 4th pick. Then who is blocking Chase Young 2 times a year for 5 years while the staff tries to figure out how to use what I feel ke an overhyped athlete that was good at football in college,with lots of game tape showing bad football instincts for someone this hyped?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2020 18:36:30 GMT -5
I don't know about that the CB is being over looked what I'm hearing if Young wasn't in this draft the clear cut guy would be Okudah. they are calling him a 10 year plug and play guy no PIs last year or holding calls against him last year detroit has a good problem on their hands. CB is one of the most drafted top 5 positions. QB, pass rusher, OT, CB. I'm surprised he doesn't get more hype. Would fit Detroits need perfectly for sure. I just have the feeling Patricia will want Simmons instead. There is a lot of talent at the top man outside of QBs 4 tackles young Okudah who they are saying he is plug and play 10 year corner Simmons plus the
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