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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 18:46:30 GMT -5
So who is blocking Young twice a year the next 5 years? How is Simmons going to help there? This is like saying "who is going to cover TEs for the next 5 years, how is Becton going to help there".
Obviously Simmons won't be blocking Young haha. If we go D our O will suffer, if we go O our D will suffer. That is the name of the game. Only the O or the D will get better with our first pick.
And guess what Again Football 101 Games are won or lost in the trenches A high risk athletic toy is a luxury item when its imperative they put talent around z young developing qb in the most important year in his development I'll say it and **** what anyone thinks Inconvenient truth. Finishing the offense via the draft is the way this tesk has to go if they want to need good long term We have 4 blue chip tackles to get an franchise LT out of early A.chance for a good C and a dynamic WR to go opposite Slayton With a trade back hit LB and edge as well.. We made our bed by taking Barkley and Jones back to back years...without a good O line neither will be good,and "must good enough is having low standards. I cant wrap.my head around why a segment of this fan base wants to neglect the online when they wont have a better chance ever to do so,especially when they have the cap space to fix a lot of needs on defense while letting the kids develop under a new staff.. Ob ****ing tuse
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Post by DMighty on Mar 3, 2020 18:59:12 GMT -5
Supposedly he is top tear at every position he has manned. I don't know if thats true he will be drafted to play them all including rushing the passer depending on a offenses strengths I'm not advocating but I'm not as dead set against as I was with the right DC he can be the honey badger on steroids bigger faster more athletic. I see it differently , Let say he is drafted as a MLB. ( a need). The coaching staff finds out he is best suited at nickel corner. The team has example: Backer and Ballantine as our outsides and Beal as our slot. What just happened is; we downgraded our #4 pick to a rotation corner. Why IMO: drafting a player without a defined role in where he played in college is a trap pick. Sounds like the type of player our coach wants
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 19:06:08 GMT -5
And guess what Again Football 101 Games are won or lost in the trenches And your point is what? Yes the OL is important. Using 1st round picks on it is not the only way to build an OL though.
Is that football 101 or cliche 101 though? Lets look at the Chiefs (Super Bowl Champs)
OT: 2nd round pick, brought is as free agent OG: 6th round pick C: 7th round pick, waiver wire signing OG: Undrafted, free agent OT: 1st round pick, KC traded a 5th round pick for him
DE: 2nd round pick, traded for DE: 2nd round pick DT: 2nd round pick DT: 3rd round pick
Imagine that. The KC Chiefs won the Super Bowl without spending a single 1st round pick on a trench player. How is that possible?
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Post by DMighty on Mar 3, 2020 19:07:02 GMT -5
The giants shouldn't be drafting at 4 I would like to see them move back to 5 and acquire 18 From the dolphins and draft Simmons @5 and Josh Jones OT @18 Would we be satisfied with that?
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 19:18:02 GMT -5
And guess what Again Football 101 Games are won or lost in the trenches And your point is what? Yes the OL is important. Using 1st round picks on it is not the only way to build an OL though.
Is that football 101 or cliche 101 though? Lets look at the Chiefs (Super Bowl Champs)
OT: 2nd round pick, brought is as free agent OG: 6th round pick C: 7th round pick, waiver wire signing OG: Undrafted, free agent OT: 1st round pick, KC traded a 5th round pick for him
DE: 2nd round pick, traded for DE: 2nd round pick DT: 2nd round pick DT: 3rd round pick
Imagine that. The KC Chiefs won the Super Bowl without spending a single 1st round pick on a trench player. How is that possible?
Except The drop off between the big 4 when we pick next will be nothing but high risk projects with 3rd and 4th round grades because there will be a massive run on tackles as usual and it's a wasteland ... Then what? Hope's and prayers at tackles against Young... Illogical to assume there will be someone good the 2and time around...
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 19:20:16 GMT -5
The giants shouldn't be drafting at 4 I would like to see them move back to 5 and acquire 18 From the dolphins and draft Simmons @5 and Josh Jones OT @18 Would we be satisfied with that? Because we won't get 18 from the Dolphins trading back one spot. They wont do it. And if that happened for me it would be 5 (fab 4 OT of choice) 18 Queen,an actual linebacker with less concerns about blown assignments
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 19:50:18 GMT -5
Except The drop off between the big 4 when we pick next will be nothing but high risk projects with 3rd and 4th round grades because there will be a massive run on tackles as usual and it's a wasteland ... Then what? Hope's and prayers at tackles against Young... Illogical to assume there will be someone good the 2and time around... Well obviously I am at a disadvantage here because I don't have the use of your crystal ball.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 19:53:26 GMT -5
The giants shouldn't be drafting at 4 I would like to see them move back to 5 and acquire 18 From the dolphins and draft Simmons @5 and Josh Jones OT @18 Would we be satisfied with that? No. If you said draft Simmons at 5 and Becton at 18 they would not be happy with that. If you said Simmons at 5 and Thomas at 18 that would not make them happy. Our only option for some people is Thomas at 4 or 5.
I would be very happy with a draft that nets us Simmons and Jones. Not sure if Jones will make it to the 2nd round for us. I think we can trade back to Miami and gain two extra 2nd round picks though. That gives us the ammo to jump back into the 1st if some OTs start to fall. Not sure the Miami trade is an option though. Depends on Miami and Detroit and what Washington does.
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 3, 2020 19:57:51 GMT -5
Ironically his dream college was Arkansas. He didn't get a scholarship there because Bret Bielema didn't know how to use him. ... Yes , the same Bret Bielema that is currently the OLB coach of the Giants.
Very ironic indeed. Good thing Bret is not our HC or DC that needs to figure out how to use him, he's the guy that needs to make him the best LB possible...if we were to draft him. Just shows how polarizing Simmons is athletically. The old school guys can't figure him out but the adaptable open minded coach turns him into a asset without a trust position.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 3, 2020 20:24:41 GMT -5
And you know with this guys size, hands, and flat out speed why haven't we played this guy at WR ? That is the problem I see in grading him. What is he? I know Tem, I believe he calls himself a LBer. You know you don't need 5 DB's in the nickel with him, just move him back in the secondary. Save a substitution. HaHa.
But this guy could be a Troy Polamalu on steroids.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 3, 2020 20:40:29 GMT -5
Very ironic indeed. Good thing Bret is not our HC or DC that needs to figure out how to use him, he's the guy that needs to make him the best LB possible...if we were to draft him. Just shows how polarizing Simmons is athletically. The old school guys can't figure him out but the adaptable open minded coach turns him into a asset without a trust position. That's the thing He is not a sure thing because even a team that "thinks " they have a plan for him are still only taking an educated guess... The 4 OTs,Okudah,Young,Lamb and Jeudy are much safer and all with major upside to be dominant because coaches know what they are getting I'd hitch my wagon to one of those players in the 4-6 range before Simmons for this alone Add on some questionable football instincts at times ... Too high risk that early
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2020 20:47:53 GMT -5
That is the problem I see in grading him. What is he? I know Tem, I believe he calls himself a LBer. You know you don't need 5 DB's in the nickel with him, just move him back in the secondary. Save a substitution. HaHa.
But this guy could be a Troy Polamalu on steroids.
More like the Honey Badger just bigger longer faster stronger.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2020 20:50:17 GMT -5
Just shows how polarizing Simmons is athletically. The old school guys can't figure him out but the adaptable open minded coach turns him into a asset without a trust position. That's the thing He is not a sure thing because even a team that "thinks " they have a plan for him are still only taking an educated guess... The 4 OTs,Okudah,Young,Lamb and Jeudy are much safer and all with major upside to be dominant because coaches know what they are getting I'd hitch my wagon to one of those players in the 4-6 range before Simmons for this alone Add on some questionable football instincts at times ... Too high risk that early I think the Giants are going OT. Only way not is if they think simmons can be a game changer week in and week out some respectable people think so I'm not sure.
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 3, 2020 21:01:32 GMT -5
Just shows how polarizing Simmons is athletically. The old school guys can't figure him out but the adaptable open minded coach turns him into a asset without a trust position. That's the thing He is not a sure thing because even a team that "thinks " they have a plan for him are still only taking an educated guess... The 4 OTs,Okudah,Young,Lamb and Jeudy are much safer and all with major upside to be dominant because coaches know what they are getting I'd hitch my wagon to one of those players in the 4-6 range before Simmons for this alone Add on some questionable football instincts at times ... Too high risk that early I am actually fine if they draft him. I would rather have an OT but I believe that our coaches will get the best out of him if that is the route they went. At the end of the day the Giants are going to do what they need to do and trust they will put a good product on the field.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2020 21:02:14 GMT -5
One other way is that this board is forgetting detroit has some say in this to if they stay put I think they can use an LB like Simmons.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 21:12:06 GMT -5
Very ironic indeed. Good thing Bret is not our HC or DC that needs to figure out how to use him, he's the guy that needs to make him the best LB possible...if we were to draft him. Just shows how polarizing Simmons is athletically. The old school guys can't figure him out but the adaptable open minded coach turns him into a asset without a trust position. Yeah. The crazy thing is had they just played him at CB, S, slot or LB he would have had success.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 21:14:30 GMT -5
He is not a sure thing because even a team that "thinks " they have a plan for him are still only taking an educated guess... Here I thought everyone was taking an educated guess. Well sign me up for the sure things in the draft
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 3, 2020 21:50:18 GMT -5
Just shows how polarizing Simmons is athletically. The old school guys can't figure him out but the adaptable open minded coach turns him into a asset without a trust position. Yeah. The crazy thing is had they just played him at CB, S, slot or LB he would have had success. That is the way I am viewing it. Yes he has no position, but.... 1. Can he cover athletic TEs -- check
2. can he cover rbs -- check
3. Can he cover in the slot -- check.
4. Can he chase rbs down the backside - check 5. Can he keep rbs from getting to edge -- check * ( he can beat the rb to edge but if he is blocked it is a different story) 5. Can he blitz the qb from the inside or outside -- check 6. TFLs anyone? -- check ( surprised me . I did not think he would get behind the line of scrimmage that much)
7. can he sack the Qb -- check 8. Can he shadow the QB -- check 9. Can he play the ball in the air -- check 10 Can he play zone -- yes 11 Can he play man -- yes
12. Can he play high safety -- yes if it the matchup calls for it ( running 4.38 he definitely has the range)
Does he do everything a LB does at an elite level? --No but look at what he does well. Imagine the OC going into the game has no idea where this guy will be lined up but they have to account for him . As a DC you have to be excited if he gets drafted at his size, speed and experience at different positions he will be a matchup equalizer.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 3, 2020 22:11:48 GMT -5
That is the way I am viewing it. Yes he has no position, but.... 1. Can he cover athletic TEs -- check
2. can he cover rbs -- check
3. Can he cover in the slot -- check.
4. Can he chase rbs down the backside - check 5. Can he keep rbs from getting to edge -- check * ( he can beat the rb to edge but if he is blocked it is a different story) 5. Can he blitz the qb from the inside or outside -- check 6. TFLs anyone? -- check ( surprised me . I did not think he would get behind the line of scrimmage that much)
7. can he sack the Qb -- check 8. Can he shadow the QB -- check 9. Can he play the ball in the air -- check 10 Can he play zone -- yes 11 Can he play man -- yes
12. Can he play high safety -- yes if it the matchup calls for it ( running 4.38 he definitely has the range)
Does he do everything a LB does at an elite level? --No but look at what he does well. Imagine the OC going into the game has no idea where this guy will be lined up but they have to account for him . As a DC you have to be excited if he gets drafted at his size, speed and experience at different positions he will be a matchup equalizer.
That's it. You confused me. We can't draft this guy, I don't know where to play him. LMAO. Very well said. This is exactly what we are looking for in defensive players. Unfortunately we are also looking for an OT. Can't wait to see which direction we go.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 4, 2020 0:25:05 GMT -5
Just my opinion but I think Simmons is a game changer on defense. I think he's worth the 4th pick. Then who is blocking Chase Young 2 times a year for 5 years while the staff tries to figure out how to use what I feel ke an overhyped athlete that was good at football in college,with lots of game tape showing bad football instincts for someone this hyped? I suspect that no one in the NFL will have a lot of success blocking Chase Young.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 2:43:49 GMT -5
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 4, 2020 5:34:35 GMT -5
The scouting link you posted doesn’t match up with the quote you posted.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 4, 2020 5:49:06 GMT -5
Just my opinion but I think Simmons is a game changer on defense. I think he's worth the 4th pick. Then who is blocking Chase Young 2 times a year for 5 years while the staff tries to figure out how to use what I feel ke an overhyped athlete that was good at football in college,with lots of game tape showing bad football instincts for someone this hyped? He does not have “lots of game tape showing bad football instincts”. You’re overstating your case....
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 4, 2020 6:40:43 GMT -5
So who is blocking Young twice a year the next 5 years? How is Simmons going to help there? This is like saying "who is going to cover TEs for the next 5 years, how is Becton going to help there".
Obviously Simmons won't be blocking Young haha. If we go D our O will suffer, if we go O our D will suffer. That is the name of the game. Only the O or the D will get better with our first pick.
These "but thens" can indeed go around in circles. I'd like to offer that hopefully, finally getting the O-line in place will help the D stay off the field more, and of course help keep our young QB healthy and if he keeps getting molested and coughing up the ball... that can become a mental baggage. We have the front line of the D falling into place already, another pass rusher or better roving LBs can still be found.
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Post by TEM on Mar 4, 2020 7:43:03 GMT -5
That is the problem I see in grading him. What is he? I know Tem, I believe he calls himself a LBer. You know you don't need 5 DB's in the nickel with him, just move him back in the secondary. Save a substitution. HaHa.
But this guy could be a Troy Polamalu on steroids.
That is the problem. If we are going to take him and he and skip an edge rusher or OT turns out to be a glorified DB. What are we just going to keep drafting DBs?
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Post by TEM on Mar 4, 2020 7:45:19 GMT -5
I see it differently , Let say he is drafted as a MLB. ( a need). The coaching staff finds out he is best suited at nickel corner. The team has example: Backer and Ballantine as our outsides and Beal as our slot. What just happened is; we downgraded our #4 pick to a rotation corner. Why IMO: drafting a player without a defined role in where he played in college is a trap pick. Sounds like the type of player our coach wants Explain how that works. You tell me what he is. Everyone says what a great player he is. What and where does he play? Strahan was a great player. I have no problem telling you what he did..
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 4, 2020 7:51:27 GMT -5
Personally, assuming Young is taken before our pick (if he's available, we should get that card up to the podium immediately) my preference is for the team to pick the OT that they like the best, they'll have the pick of the litter. Were they to take Simmons, I would totally understand, and get behind it just like I have for Saquon and DJ. While there is some risk to him, he has the potential to be the dominating linebacker that we haven't had since LT. Personally, I only saw 2 of his games this year. In both of them he made plays that made me go WOW and plays that made me say wft, smfh!! In that respect he reminds me of Jackrabbit.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 4, 2020 9:29:20 GMT -5
I know Tem, I believe he calls himself a LBer. You know you don't need 5 DB's in the nickel with him, just move him back in the secondary. Save a substitution. HaHa.
But this guy could be a Troy Polamalu on steroids.
That is the problem. If we are going to take him and he and skip an edge rusher or OT turns out to be a glorified DB. What are we just going to keep drafting DBs? Well I think we only take him if we move back. But I'm with you I want that OT at #4 (unless of course Chase Young).
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 15:38:09 GMT -5
These "but thens" can indeed go around in circles. I'd like to offer that hopefully, finally getting the O-line in place will help the D stay off the field more, and of course help keep our young QB healthy and if he keeps getting molested and coughing up the ball... that can become a mental baggage. We have the front line of the D falling into place already, another pass rusher or better roving LBs can still be found.
We absolutely have to fix the OL. That is priority #1 IMO. I just don't agree that the only way to do that is with the #4 pick.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 15:40:16 GMT -5
Sounds like the type of player our coach wants Explain how that works. You tell me what he is. Everyone says what a great player he is. What and where does he play? Strahan was a great player. I have no problem telling you what he did.. He is the best LB in college football. Stop acting confused because you're a Giants fan and don't know that LBs can actually cover people.
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