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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 4, 2020 15:52:32 GMT -5
Explain how that works. You tell me what he is. Everyone says what a great player he is. What and where does he play? Strahan was a great player. I have no problem telling you what he did.. He is the best LB in college football. Stop acting confused because you're a Giants fan and don't know that LBs can actually cover people.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 15:53:41 GMT -5
He is the best LB in college football. Stop acting confused because you're a Giants fan and don't know that LBs can actually cover people.
What? Since when? Not since we built a new stadium for our team.  |
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 5, 2020 7:05:06 GMT -5
These "but thens" can indeed go around in circles. I'd like to offer that hopefully, finally getting the O-line in place will help the D stay off the field more, and of course help keep our young QB healthy and if he keeps getting molested and coughing up the ball... that can become a mental baggage. We have the front line of the D falling into place already, another pass rusher or better roving LBs can still be found.
We absolutely have to fix the OL. That is priority #1 IMO. I just don't agree that the only way to do that is with the #4 pick. If Young becomes the monkey wrench that causes our GM to accomplish that in later rounds, that can work. It seems this Simmons would be a very nice piece to an already competent defense - where he can thrive within all the units knowing their roles and covering him while he roves. Not currently ours, it would seem. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 7:20:15 GMT -5
We absolutely have to fix the OL. That is priority #1 IMO. I just don't agree that the only way to do that is with the #4 pick. If Young becomes the monkey wrench that causes our GM to accomplish that in later rounds, that can work. It seems this Simmons would be a very nice piece to an already competent defense - where he can thrive within all the units knowing their roles and covering him while he roves. Not currently ours, it would seem. This is litteraly the best post in this entire discussion...on every level. |
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 5, 2020 7:28:26 GMT -5
If Young becomes the monkey wrench that causes our GM to accomplish that in later rounds, that can work. It seems this Simmons would be a very nice piece to an already competent defense - where he can thrive within all the units knowing their roles and covering him while he roves. Not currently ours, it would seem. This is litteraly the best post in this entire discussion...on every level. Just about everything I post is from ingesting, digesting, and regurgitating what ALL of yous are putting out, here. So thank yous... |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 7:33:54 GMT -5
This is litteraly the best post in this entire discussion...on every level. Just about everything I post is from ingesting, digesting, and regurgitating what ALL of yous are putting out, here. So thank yous... You mean someone on here doesn't think I'm completely clueless and has a shitty agenda?? Thank you |
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 5, 2020 7:40:14 GMT -5
Just about everything I post is from ingesting, digesting, and regurgitating what ALL of yous are putting out, here. So thank yous... You mean someone on here doesn't think I'm completely clueless and has a shitty agenda?? Thank you Not since Beckham was traded. |
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 7:45:08 GMT -5
Explain how that works. You tell me what he is. Everyone says what a great player he is. What and where does he play? Strahan was a great player. I have no problem telling you what he did.. He is the best LB in college football. Stop acting confused because you're a Giants fan and don't know that LBs can actually cover people.
How can he be a LB when he played more Slot corner and Safety than LB. I have been asking the he's a LB portrayers to explain that . Can you? If he is a LB you would think his snap count would be more than (280) (35%) Because the facts say he is a DB. (521) (65%) Safety 218 snaps
Slot corner 286 snapsMLB 160 snaps OLB 120 snaps Corner 17 snaps. How can he be an " LB"? When the facts show he is more of a DB and that is even subjective. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 10:35:17 GMT -5
We absolutely have to fix the OL. That is priority #1 IMO. I just don't agree that the only way to do that is with the #4 pick. If Young becomes the monkey wrench that causes our GM to accomplish that in later rounds, that can work. It seems this Simmons would be a very nice piece to an already competent defense - where he can thrive within all the units knowing their roles and covering him while he roves. Not currently ours, it would seem. Then what is the point of Dexter Lawrence Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson along with BJ Hill. If you think 4 is to rich for him or you just want tackle thats fine but, If That DL isn't good enough to cover up our new LBs who ever they may be then it is time to scrub the whole thing. That isn't a good enough reason not to shop for a stud LB or draft one if he is worthy of the pick because those 4 guys eat people and blocks. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 10:41:22 GMT -5
Just about everything I post is from ingesting, digesting, and regurgitating what ALL of yous are putting out, here. So thank yous... You mean someone on here doesn't think I'm completely clueless and has a shitty agenda?? Thank you I don't at all. You are one of the few that seems to have no agenda. But you know as well as I know whether it is Littleton or Simmons or Martinez or the kid from Chicago. The DL was drafted and traded for for this reason to help keep our LBs clean and they all seem above average at doing it. We should just say we prefer a tackle as you and I do now last year the DL wasn't settled this year they seem to be a strength if they get Williams done. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 10:45:03 GMT -5
If Young becomes the monkey wrench that causes our GM to accomplish that in later rounds, that can work. It seems this Simmons would be a very nice piece to an already competent defense - where he can thrive within all the units knowing their roles and covering him while he roves. Not currently ours, it would seem. Then what is the point of Dexter Lawrence Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson along with BJ Hill. If you think 4 is to rich for him or you just want tackle thats fine but, If That DL isn't good enough to cover up our new LBs who ever they may be then it is time to scrub the whole thing. That isn't a good enough reason not to shop for a stud LB or draft one if he is worthy of the pick because those 4 guys eat people and blocks. His point is beyond those 3 our defense is a huge ? ..either untapped potential or busts..m(though the few usual rocket scientists already want to flush the entire last 2 years of picks on defense away because our defense sucked ) I agree with him in that Simmons would have a huge instant impact on an already decent defense as opposed to an undefined role on a bad one...problem is that unless a team with a top 15 pick defense trades up he will be an enigma on a bad defense |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 10:54:05 GMT -5
Then what is the point of Dexter Lawrence Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson along with BJ Hill. If you think 4 is to rich for him or you just want tackle thats fine but, If That DL isn't good enough to cover up our new LBs who ever they may be then it is time to scrub the whole thing. That isn't a good enough reason not to shop for a stud LB or draft one if he is worthy of the pick because those 4 guys eat people and blocks. His point is beyond those 3 our defense is a huge ? ..either untapped potential or busts..m(though the few usual rocket scientists already want to flush the entire last 2 years of picks on defense away because our defense sucked ) I agree with him in that Simmons would have a huge instant impact on an already decent defense as opposed to an undefined role on a bad one...problem is that unless a team with a top 15 pick defense trades up he will be an enigma on a bad defense I'm staying with my original pick any of the top 4 at 4 tor in trade down if it's there which is seeming less likely. But Simmons to start is a 6"4" 238 pound sideline to sideline linebacker I would say first. If you have a good to very good DL he or any of the guys I named are gonna feast. That said there is quite a few people here judging first year corners and second years DLs and LBs like thy are coming into there 4th season. No one is a bust yet and hopefully they won't be. When free agency hits week 3 we will know more what direction they will go in the Draft. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 5, 2020 16:13:14 GMT -5
We absolutely have to fix the OL. That is priority #1 IMO. I just don't agree that the only way to do that is with the #4 pick. If Young becomes the monkey wrench that causes our GM to accomplish that in later rounds, that can work. It seems this Simmons would be a very nice piece to an already competent defense - where he can thrive within all the units knowing their roles and covering him while he roves. Not currently ours, it would seem. I would argue that this team is actually perfectly set up for a Simmons (or similar) type LB. We have a stud DL. Before last year David Mayo had a high of 19 tackles on a season for his career. Last year behind this DL he go 82. The issue with this D was we didn't/don't have LBs and the secondary was very inexperienced.
I'm not saying Simmons has to be our pick, but if he is we are very well set up for him. This goes for Queen, Murray, Littleton, Schobert or any other sideline to sideline LB we might bring in. Ray Lewis once said a LB is only as good as the big guys in front of him. A good LB can thrive behind this DL.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 5, 2020 16:30:17 GMT -5
How can he be a LB when he played more Slot corner and Safety than LB. I have been asking the he's a LB portrayers to explain that . Can you? Yes it's simple. You are stuck looking at numbers and not watching the film. How many of those snaps in the slot was he blitzing or having containment of the outside runs? Who cares where he lined up.
What do you call a guy that is targeted 120 times a year? Is that a WR? No that is Saquon Barkley. Christian McCaffrey had 116 catches last year, is he any less a RB?
Just like those versatile RBs we will list Simmons as LB and he will be used to stop the run, cover RBs, TEs and blitz just like every LB. He will also be used to cover slot guys, maybe put him deep to help as a safety and do anything else we need. Who cares what position he is listed as on the depth chart.
He was named college footballs BEST LB.
Here is is lined up over the slot WR, but he is blitzing. Was he playing slot CB or OLB? Who cares, he got a sack.
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 16:41:22 GMT -5
How can he be a LB when he played more Slot corner and Safety than LB. I have been asking the he's a LB portrayers to explain that . Can you? Yes it's simple. You are stuck looking at numbers and not watching the film. How many of those snaps in the slot was he blitzing or having containment of the outside runs? Who cares where he lined up.
What do you call a guy that is targeted 120 times a year? Is that a WR? No that is Saquon Barkley. Christian McCaffrey had 116 catches last year, is he any less a RB?
Just like those versatile RBs we will list Simmons as LB and he will be used to stop the run, cover RBs, TEs and blitz just like every LB. He will also be used to cover slot guys, maybe put him deep to help as a safety and do anything else we need. Who cares what position he is listed as on the depth chart.
He was named college footballs BEST LB.
Here is is lined up over the slot WR, but he is blitzing. Was he playing slot CB or OLB? Who cares, he got a sack.
The film shows he was in the slot or as a safety 65% of the time . I guess by your standards all 11 on the field are Sudo- Linebackers . You can argue your point all you want. It does not change the position on the field he was lined up as most of the time. A DB. . As I said you can ignore data ( facts) . That is not science . That is philosophy ( opinion). You want to say he is a LB or Qb or whatever you want to call him. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 5, 2020 18:16:11 GMT -5
The film shows he was in the slot or as a safety 65% of the time . LMAO ok and your point is what?
He won the award for the best LB in college. He was invited to the NFL combine as a LB. He will be drafted as a LB.
The guy covering the Curl-Flat on the bottom of the screen plays what position?
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 5, 2020 18:23:38 GMT -5
He is the best LB in college football. Stop acting confused because you're a Giants fan and don't know that LBs can actually cover people.
How can he be a LB when he played more Slot corner and Safety than LB. I have been asking the he's a LB portrayers to explain that . Can you? If he is a LB you would think his snap count would be more than (280) (35%) Because the facts say he is a DB. (521) (65%) Safety 218 snaps
Slot corner 286 snapsMLB 160 snaps OLB 120 snaps Corner 17 snaps. How can he be an " LB"? When the facts show he is more of a DB and that is even subjective. From an article at Giants.com: According to Pro Football Focus, Simmons, who measured 6-foot-4 and 238 pounds at the combine, played more than 100 snaps at five different positons for Clemson in 2019. He lined up 299 times at inside linebacker, 262 at slot cornerback, 132 at free safety, 116 at outside linebacker, and 100 at strong safety. Or ILB 299 OLB 116 SCB 262 FS 132 SS 100 Also, according to Smelck of BBKL, he was often aligned between where a safety would be and where a LB would be. I'm still mulling this one over as far as who to pick. Respect everyone's opinions, even those given more forcefully than I think is warranted, but I don't think Simmons vs. Wirfs/Thomas is as cut and dry as some are making it. Bottom line, I think I'm going to be happy either way. Okudah? Less happy but still happy. I can see an argument for all paths depending on how FA plays out. And, ultimately, want BPA so long as not really close. |
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 18:25:19 GMT -5
The film shows he was in the slot or as a safety 65% of the time . LMAO ok and your point is what?
He won the award for the best LB in college. He was invited to the NFL combine as a LB. He will be drafted as a LB.
The guy covering the Curl-Flat on the bottom of the screen plays what position?
My point is he has lined up as a DB more often than not. Anything concluded to the contrary is undermining what the data is showing. He could win a prize for QB . The data still would shows he is a more likely a DB than a QB. |
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 18:26:59 GMT -5
How can he be a LB when he played more Slot corner and Safety than LB. I have been asking the he's a LB portrayers to explain that . Can you? If he is a LB you would think his snap count would be more than (280) (35%) Because the facts say he is a DB. (521) (65%) Safety 218 snaps
Slot corner 286 snapsMLB 160 snaps OLB 120 snaps Corner 17 snaps. How can he be an " LB"? When the facts show he is more of a DB and that is even subjective. From an article at Giants.com: According to Pro Football Focus, Simmons, who measured 6-foot-4 and 238 pounds at the combine, played more than 100 snaps at five different positons for Clemson in 2019. He lined up 299 times at inside linebacker, 262 at slot cornerback, 132 at free safety, 116 at outside linebacker, and 100 at strong safety. Or ILB 299 OLB 116 SCB 262 FS 132 SS 100 Also, according to Smelck of BBKL, he was often aligned between where a safety would be and where a LB would be. I'm still mulling this one over as far as who to pick. Respect everyone's opinions, even those given more forcefully than I think is warranted, but I don't think Simmons vs. Wirfs/Thomas is as cut and dry as some are making it. Bottom line, I think I'm going to be happy either way. Okudah? Less happy but still happy. I can see an argument for all paths depending on how FA plays out. And, ultimately, want BPA so long as not really close. I see a tweener. NO picks tweeners in the top 5 picks. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 5, 2020 18:31:04 GMT -5
LMAO ok and your point is what?
He won the award for the best LB in college. He was invited to the NFL combine as a LB. He will be drafted as a LB.
The guy covering the Curl-Flat on the bottom of the screen plays what position?
My point is he has lined up as a DB more often than not. Anything concluded to the contrary is undermining what the data is showing. He could win a prize for QB . The data still would shows he is a more likely a DB than a QB. Answer my question though. What position does that guy play? |
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 18:41:56 GMT -5
My point is he has lined up as a DB more often than not. Anything concluded to the contrary is undermining what the data is showing. He could win a prize for QB . The data still would shows he is a more likely a DB than a QB. Answer my question though. What position does that guy play? He has lined up as a slot corner more than any other position. Even that is a hard sell. He is tweener. That is what the data shows. How can he be graded as a LB accurately when he is a LB only 35% of the time. I can tell you this. No team would give a QB a high draft grade that lines up as a WR 65% of the time and QB only 35% of the time. Even though he is listed as a QB. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 5, 2020 19:03:35 GMT -5
Can't answer my question?
Yes the data shows that. But is the guy lined up in the slot a CB? You won't answer that simple question. Your data means jack because you haven't watched the film on him. They lined him up in the slot and S and DE and LB to disguise what they were doing with him. He would line up in the slot and blitz or cover, he would line up at S and blitz or cover deep or shallow middle, he would line up as a DE and cover the TE or RB or slot or blitz, he would line up at LB and cover the slot CB or TE or blitz. He was lined up all over the place (the data shows this) but his assignments were exactly what a LB would do (the film shows this). Blitz, cover man, cover zone, take away the edge on a run ect.
Go watch the film because that is what the teams are doing and that is why they will draft him as a LB in the top ten next month.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 5, 2020 19:10:40 GMT -5
The MLB in Tampa 2 takes the deepest receiver in the middle of the field. Does it matter if he is standing on the 39 yard line or the 50 yard line when the ball is snapped? Does that change his position or his assignment? BTW the Bears started running this D in 2004 with Brian Urlacher as their MLB. Brian Urlacher in college played roughly 45% of his snaps at MLB and 55% at FS after playing 100% (defensive) snaps in highschool at DB. Are you confused as to what position Urlacher played in the NFL?
Hint: He is a Hall of Fame linebacker.
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 19:14:40 GMT -5
The MLB in Tampa 2 takes the deepest receiver in the middle of the field. Does it matter if he is standing on the 39 yard line or the 50 yard line when the ball is snapped? Does that change his position or his assignment? BTW the Bears started running this D in 2004 with Brian Urlacher as their MLB. Brian Urlacher in college played roughly 45% of his snaps at MLB and 55% at FS after playing 100% (defensive) snaps in highschool at DB. Are you confused as to what position Urlacher played in the NFL?
Hint: He is a Hall of Fame linebacker.
I can assure you he was not a tweener in college. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 5, 2020 19:20:09 GMT -5
I can assure you he was not a tweener in college. You didn't read my post did you? Brian Urlacher got a position created for him called the Lobo-Back which is a LB/FS hybrid.
Go watch some film.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 5, 2020 19:23:01 GMT -5
Answer my question though. What position does that guy play? He has lined up as a slot corner more than any other position. Even that is a hard sell. He is tweener. That is what the data shows. How can he be graded as a LB accurately when he is a LB only 35% of the time. I can tell you this. No team would give a QB a high draft grade that lines up as a WR 65% of the time and QB only 35% of the time. Even though he is listed as a QB. The figures you are using may not be accurate. Regardless, as IrishMike pointed out, even when lined up at a nonLB position, he ended up doing what LBs do. Giantlegacy's beef is more legitimate, in my opinion, but that is only if his assessment of Simmons' is accurate. And, as much as I respect his knowledge, if the Giants don't agree and think Simmons is significantly better than the tackles, I won't question the pick. |
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 19:29:21 GMT -5
He has lined up as a slot corner more than any other position. Even that is a hard sell. He is tweener. That is what the data shows. How can he be graded as a LB accurately when he is a LB only 35% of the time. I can tell you this. No team would give a QB a high draft grade that lines up as a WR 65% of the time and QB only 35% of the time. Even though he is listed as a QB. The figures you are using may not be accurate. Regardless, as IrishMike pointed out, even when lined up at a nonLB position, he ended up doing what LBs do. Giantlegacy's beef is more legitimate, in my opinion, but that is only if his assessment of Simmons' is accurate. And, as much as I respect his knowledge, if the Giants don't agree and think Simmons is significantly better than the tackles, I won't question the pick. He is a tweener. Tweeners historically can't shed blocks in the box. One of arguments Giantlegacy made. If he was a true LB. He could should be able to take on a Guard with constancy. His lack of being able to roll off blocks , is more inline with that of a safety. He is a DB tweener. Goodson had the same problem with OGs and he was a 3rd round pick. |
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 19:38:19 GMT -5
I can assure you he was not a tweener in college. You didn't read my post did you? Brian Urlacher got a position created for him called the Lobo-Back which is a LB/FS hybrid.
Go watch some film.
How about we draft forgo playing and send him right to Canton. Urlacher could shed a block. |
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 5, 2020 19:42:35 GMT -5
The figures you are using may not be accurate. Regardless, as IrishMike pointed out, even when lined up at a nonLB position, he ended up doing what LBs do. Giantlegacy's beef is more legitimate, in my opinion, but that is only if his assessment of Simmons' is accurate. And, as much as I respect his knowledge, if the Giants don't agree and think Simmons is significantly better than the tackles, I won't question the pick. He is a tweener. Tweeners historically can't shed blocks in the box. One of arguments Giantlegacy made. If he was a true LB. He could should be able to take on a Guard with constancy. His lack of being able to roll off blocks , is more inline with that of a safety. He is a DB tweener. Goodson had the same problem with OGs and he was a 3rd round pick. That is why I said "may not" be accurate 🙂. The point is, where he lines up may be a bit subjective (based on Smelcks observation on Simmons lining up between positions). Also, regardless of where he lined up, he ended up doing what LBs do when the ball snapped. |
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 20:01:02 GMT -5
That is why I said "may not" be accurate 🙂. The point is, where he lines up may be a bit subjective (based on Smelcks observation on Simmons lining up between positions). Also, regardless of where he lined up, he ended up doing what LBs do when the ball snapped.Let me run this by you. Because in the NFL this matters. Let say he was lined in the slot corner . As Mike says he was there to blitz . Not to cover the slot WR. There are 2 ILBs . Now there is a 3 ILB ( the tweener) Who is covering the slot in theory If I am the Browns HC I line up OBJ in the slot. The tweener is supposed to be the slot corner. Where he played mostly at Clemson. The Tweener blitzes because he " not really a corner" he is doing what LBs do when the ball is snapped. You want to knows what happen in that scenario. The tweener blitzes and Beckham takes it to the house because there is no one on him. |
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