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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2020 11:33:58 GMT -5
What was the situation he put himself in though if this is 100% fictitious like the lawyer says? How do you control others motives to frame you on something like this? The only way to be safe from that is living in a bubble and not socializing with anyone, which no one does. If this was 100% a set up job, then he doesnt need to apologize to me about it. What he needs to apologize to me about is sleeping in meetings causing poor performance and understanding on the field, and skipping team meetings with his new HC. Thats what worries me more, if this is fake news. Your hyperbole is on fire today!! None of us know the entire story at all. Just based on speculation, he was at an illegal gambling party, drinking alcohol and carrying a firearm. And that is the LEAST of what we know. He hasn't been charged with any other crimes EXCEPT the ones related to the armed robbery. So, I have no reason to believe that he was guilty of any other crimes. Just dumb **** decision making. Yeah that doesnt sound good. And certainly doesnt sound like the type of player this organization wants after hearing Judge speak about what he does want here.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 11:35:23 GMT -5
Wow. You're really not a "second chances" guy, are you? So.....let's play "what if".....What if....Baker is cleared of all the charges and the Giants fire him anyway (which is ludicrous IMO) What if....This is a wake up call this kid needed and he not only becomes a pillar of the community, but a great football player as well.......but not with as a Giant.? I'd much rather have this guy play under a Judge type HC who will have him on a VERY short leash until he proves himself otherwise. There really is no risk in that. He either flies right or he's gone. He's getting paid anyway and the Giants can be a part of a great turn around story, rather than the organization that threw in the towel too early. He was going to be given a clean slate for this year, and we were all on board with that before this incident. If he turns out to be innocent, that should not change. Of course, based on your reputation here, I believe your underlying hatred of Gettleman influences your thinking. He's a DG draft pick the guys that hate the GM are gonna whoop on the few misses he has had there isn't much to shoot at. Got to take your shots when you get them. I feel the same way. I even pointed out Analyst's "hate-boner". He thought that was pretty funny......if not a little close to home.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 11:38:23 GMT -5
Your hyperbole is on fire today!! None of us know the entire story at all. Just based on speculation, he was at an illegal gambling party, drinking alcohol and carrying a firearm. And that is the LEAST of what we know. He hasn't been charged with any other crimes EXCEPT the ones related to the armed robbery. So, I have no reason to believe that he was guilty of any other crimes. Just dumb **** decision making. Yeah that doesnt sound good. And certainly doesnt sound like the type of player this organization wants after hearing Judge speak about what he does want here. But, as I said before, "what if"? Is this is the wake up call he needed? Narrowly avoiding several decades of prison time on top of losing your 2 mil dollar job and THEN having to face the music with Judge can really jerk a knot in someone's tail. We have nothing to lose by giving him a chance under Judge.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2020 11:40:40 GMT -5
He's a DG draft pick the guys that hate the GM are gonna whoop on the few misses he has had there isn't much to shoot at. Got to take your shots when you get them. I feel the same way. I even pointed out Analyst's "hate-boner". He thought that was pretty funny......if not a little close to home. Yeah how can anyone hate on a rookie who sleeps through meetings, doesnt understand his job, lacks hustle on plays, gets torched in complete confusion, then has the offseason and still doesnt arrive ready to learn but instead decides to skip team meetings with his new no nonsense head coach. And on top of that is in the situation we are currently watching unfold. Outstanding kid. Easy to root for. Obviously I only am discouraged by the pick because DG made it...
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 19, 2020 11:44:01 GMT -5
It’s blowing my mind that even if this turns out to be a complete sham there is a contingent that would still like to see this kid get fu***d over. Newsflash, if this is all a sham that already happened. It is the mindset of some fans . There should be no developmental stage in a player's career. Gettleman said it can take upwards of 3 years for a player to hit is potential. It took Strahan 3 years. It was not until year 4 he hit his stride. It took Tuck until year 3. For anyone to say Baker is what he is as a player. IMO is looking at the truth in regards how long it takes to become a good player. I think what the Giants the coaches /GM and fan base will judge him on is if he gets through this clean no problems just a blip. Will he realize how close he was to losing everything. His freedom for 1/2 of his adult life his career and everything that goes when you lose 30 40 years of your life. Will he be matured and humbled from this and come back a better man from head to toe. I'm rooting for him to realize his potential to put this rough start behind him and a great career in front of him. But I think he should have to work for it, because of his draft pedigree nothing should be given to him he should be on even ground with Love Biel and Ballentine if he earns it the job is his.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 11:44:07 GMT -5
I feel the same way. I even pointed out Analyst's "hate-boner". He thought that was pretty funny......if not a little close to home. Yeah how can anyone hate on a rookie who sleeps through meetings, doesnt understand his job, lacks hustle on plays, gets torched in complete confusion, then has the offseason and still doesnt arrive ready to learn but instead decides to skip team meetings with his new no nonsense head coach. And on top of that is in the situation we are currently watching unfold. Outstanding kid. Easy to root for. Obviously I only am discouraged by the pick because DG made it... Well that sums it up perfectly.. Scared straight is what we are now hoping for to get anything productive from this player...
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 19, 2020 11:45:37 GMT -5
He's a DG draft pick the guys that hate the GM are gonna whoop on the few misses he has had there isn't much to shoot at. Got to take your shots when you get them. I feel the same way. I even pointed out Analyst's "hate-boner". He thought that was pretty funny......if not a little close to home. We have to see the facts.
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Post by Blue Hulk on May 19, 2020 11:52:24 GMT -5
Putting himself in that situation was wrong. There's no denying that and he SHOULD apologize for it. But being there, and committing armed robbery are world's apart. I would imagine there will be some sort of punitive action for detrimental conduct, What was the situation he put himself in though if this is 100% fictitious like the lawyer says? How do you control others motives to frame you on something like this? The only way to be safe from that is living in a bubble and not socializing with anyone, which no one does. If this was 100% a set up job, then he doesnt need to apologize to me about it. What he needs to apologize to me about is sleeping in meetings causing poor performance and understanding on the field, and skipping team meetings with his new HC. Thats what worries me more, if this is fake news. ummm...That is usually true pre covid19
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 19, 2020 11:57:01 GMT -5
Yeah that doesnt sound good. And certainly doesnt sound like the type of player this organization wants after hearing Judge speak about what he does want here. But, as I said before, "what if"? Is this is the wake up call he needed? Narrowly avoiding several decades of prison time on top of losing your 2 mil dollar job and THEN having to face the music with Judge can really jerk a knot in someone's tail. We have nothing to lose by giving him a chance under Judge. Right now this is looking more and more like what I thought people trying to scam him and Dunbar extortion and now it seems the tables are turning, the victims might be the ones in danger of getting charged here. So the stories are a changing. He is 22 with a lot of money most 22 year olds are gonna find something to do with that cash that isn't to bright. Just a fact he put himself there it doesn't mean he should be kicked to the curb. Think they will be looking to see if he has a renewed sense of urgency to his life / career / just being a better person with this second chance if he gets it, plenty on innocent people go away.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 19, 2020 12:02:36 GMT -5
For what guilt by association? Didn't someone say they fined Ray Lewis $250,000 for the same thing , that was murder correct? Ray Lewis was with group that got ito an altercation and someone from his group cut someone up pretty good enough for the victim to bleed to death. don't know what the fine was but he did not come forward right away, paying and having that fantastic career was much better then the alternative prison. He made the most of his second chance and proved he was a better person then what he surrounded himself with back then.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 12:05:17 GMT -5
I feel the same way. I even pointed out Analyst's "hate-boner". He thought that was pretty funny......if not a little close to home. Yeah how can anyone hate on a rookie who sleeps through meetings, doesnt understand his job, lacks hustle on plays, gets torched in complete confusion, then has the offseason and still doesnt arrive ready to learn but instead decides to skip team meetings with his new no nonsense head coach. And on top of that is in the situation we are currently watching unfold. Outstanding kid. Easy to root for. Obviously I only am discouraged by the pick because DG made it... I think not wanting to give the kid a second chance under a new HC (if he's found innocent) involves the underlying wish for Dave's failure, yes.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 19, 2020 12:12:17 GMT -5
I feel the same way. I even pointed out Analyst's "hate-boner". He thought that was pretty funny......if not a little close to home. Yeah how can anyone hate on a rookie who sleeps through meetings, doesnt understand his job, lacks hustle on plays, gets torched in complete confusion, then has the offseason and still doesnt arrive ready to learn but instead decides to skip team meetings with his new no nonsense head coach. And on top of that is in the situation we are currently watching unfold. Outstanding kid. Easy to root for. Obviously I only am discouraged by the pick because DG made it... You can look at it that way or look at the fact that once he got called out and admitted he wasn't good with the playbook he started to settle down and had good final 3rd of the season think 6 pretty solid games to close out his rookie year. Or we can hate him and hope his work ethic continues to falter and he busts. Weird rooting for one of your 3 first round picks to fail or better yet lose his life to a prison sentence. Funny when Flowers was going through the same thing I was rooting for him every spring to have found his game and at least be average.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 19, 2020 12:13:28 GMT -5
Yeah how can anyone hate on a rookie who sleeps through meetings, doesnt understand his job, lacks hustle on plays, gets torched in complete confusion, then has the offseason and still doesnt arrive ready to learn but instead decides to skip team meetings with his new no nonsense head coach. And on top of that is in the situation we are currently watching unfold. Outstanding kid. Easy to root for. Obviously I only am discouraged by the pick because DG made it... I think not wanting to give the kid a second chance under a new HC (if he's found innocent) involves the underlying wish for Dave's failure, yes. yes
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Post by TEM on May 19, 2020 12:27:35 GMT -5
For what guilt by association? Didn't someone say they fined Ray Lewis $250,000 for the same thing , that was murder correct? Could be ,I never read that though.
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Post by sundown on May 19, 2020 12:31:25 GMT -5
Exactly!! I still have the same friends from elementary and we use to hit up parties all the time and there were some bad people there. Does that mean I hangout w lowlifes? Hell I have some friends that are cool w some “lowlifes” so does that mean my immediate friends are lowlifes? Was he dumb for going out during a pandemic, YES but until the full facts come out nobody should be judging Did you conduct illegal activities such as undeclared and unlicensed gambling with those low lives? Did you bring a gun with you when you went to the parties full of low lives where there was alcohol being consumed? I was drinking beer when I wasn’t 21. Guess I’m a lowlife. You know how many illegal poker games go on!? I guess the vast majority of people are lowlifes then cause it goes on a lot. Ive been to a college party where someone got stabbed and this was in a rich part of Dallas. Shit happens but sounds like you’re a saint and have done nothing wrong in your life to pass judgement. You clearly have been sheltered all your life not to understand what goes on outside your perfect bubble.
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Post by sundown on May 19, 2020 12:43:59 GMT -5
I was drinking beer when I wasn’t 21. Guess I’m a lowlife. You know how many illegal poker games go on!? I guess the vast majority of people are lowlifes then cause it goes on a lot. Ive been to a college party where someone got stabbed and this was in a rich part of Dallas. Shit happens but sounds like you’re a saint and have done nothing wrong in your life to pass judgement. You clearly have been sheltered all your life not to understand what goes on outside your perfect bubble. How many times you bring a gun with you to those parties while people were drinking and gambling? How many? I never brought a gun but you lack the understanding that individuals w high profiles do. You know how many celebs go out packing? I live in Texas and you can bring your gun just about anywhere here. It’s happens quite a bit. Bottom line I’m not going to kill him for having a gun or going out w it (if he has the license to do so) but i will kill him for not being more cautious given his status in life and not taking better precautions. Given his new status in life he cant go anywhere these days
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Post by McCherry on May 19, 2020 12:44:08 GMT -5
If It turns out Baker is innocent, he's the last one that needs to apologize for anything.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 12:50:26 GMT -5
Wow. You're really not a "second chances" guy, are you? So.....let's play "what if".....What if....Baker is cleared of all the charges and the Giants fire him anyway (which is ludicrous IMO) What if....This is a wake up call this kid needed and he not only becomes a pillar of the community, but a great football player as well.......but not with as a Giant.? I'd much rather have this guy play under a Judge type HC who will have him on a VERY short leash until he proves himself otherwise. There really is no risk in that. He either flies right or he's gone. He's getting paid anyway and the Giants can be a part of a great turn around story, rather than the organization that threw in the towel too early. He was going to be given a clean slate for this year, and we were all on board with that before this incident. If he turns out to be innocent, that should not change. Of course, based on your reputation here, I believe your underlying hatred of Gettleman influences your thinking. Regardless of the outcome of the robbery charges, cut DeAndre Baker from the team. Set the example that players will be held accountable for the decisions they make, the situations they put themselves in as well as the company they keep. Don’t know what your take on this happens to be but people are on board with trading much more talented football players than DeAndre baker for “giving a bad interview” or “DG don’t like his effect on culture” etc.....etc........but are fully on board with giving another chance to a player that brings a gun to a social gathering where alcohol is present, people are consuming that alcohol and illegal activity going on. Based on your patterns of misconduct as well as your reputation, it’s highly likely that you will now begins with the usual insults thrown out there because someone simply disagrees with your opinion. Take it easy.....nobody is lobbing insults. And, for the record, I have NEVER insulted anyone simply for disagreeing with me. Generally it is because I found something they said to be so utterly ridiculous that an insult was either warranted or just funny. I don't know what "people on this board" feeling this way has to do with me. I don't believe I ever advocated the trade of any player based on a bad interview or DG's preference of "culture players". As for the latter, you have done it in the past and are doing it as of right now with Baker. Those things you mention that we KNOW he did, while stupid and immature, he was not charged with a crime for doing so. If he is innocent of the charges, there is no risk and seeing if he can turn it all around. None. I wholeheartedly believe that you and a few other have this stance because of your hatred for Gettlaman and wanting to pin this on him. Your argument against Golden Tate being another example. Change my mind.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2020 12:56:20 GMT -5
Yeah how can anyone hate on a rookie who sleeps through meetings, doesnt understand his job, lacks hustle on plays, gets torched in complete confusion, then has the offseason and still doesnt arrive ready to learn but instead decides to skip team meetings with his new no nonsense head coach. And on top of that is in the situation we are currently watching unfold. Outstanding kid. Easy to root for. Obviously I only am discouraged by the pick because DG made it... I think not wanting to give the kid a second chance under a new HC (if he's found innocent) involves the underlying wish for Dave's failure, yes. Who doesnt want to give him a 2nd chance if he didnt do this?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 12:57:28 GMT -5
I think not wanting to give the kid a second chance under a new HC (if he's found innocent) involves the underlying wish for Dave's failure, yes. Who doesnt want to give him a 2nd chance if he didnt do this? Well, you and Wreck it Ralph for starters.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2020 12:58:47 GMT -5
Yeah how can anyone hate on a rookie who sleeps through meetings, doesnt understand his job, lacks hustle on plays, gets torched in complete confusion, then has the offseason and still doesnt arrive ready to learn but instead decides to skip team meetings with his new no nonsense head coach. And on top of that is in the situation we are currently watching unfold. Outstanding kid. Easy to root for. Obviously I only am discouraged by the pick because DG made it... You can look at it that way or look at the fact that once he got called out and admitted he wasn't good with the playbook he started to settle down and had good final 3rd of the season think 6 pretty solid games to close out his rookie year. Or we can hate him and hope his work ethic continues to falter and he busts. Weird rooting for one of your 3 first round picks to fail or better yet lose his life to a prison sentence. Funny when Flowers was going through the same thing I was rooting for him every spring to have found his game and at least be average. No one is doing that. The only way I want him to fail and get cut is if he DID do this. Obviously it would have crossed a line. I do want to see if he can rebound from last year and straighten his crap out though if he didnt do it. I think the odds are he wont magically turn into a passionate SQB type personality though. Most players who start off down the wrong path continue it. And by wrong path, I mean not putting in the work to be the best.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2020 12:59:58 GMT -5
Who doesnt want to give him a 2nd chance if he didnt do this? Well, you and Wreck it Ralph for starters. Oh, so now you just make up stuff? Come on, you're better than that. Im being critical of his pathetic work ethic, not rooting for him to fail or actually have done this crime. If he is clered and can turn into a greta player and leader, thats what I would want because it would make our team better.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 13:01:12 GMT -5
Well, you and Wreck it Ralph for starters. Oh, so now you just make up stuff? Come on, you're better than that. Im being critical of his pathetic work ethic, not rooting for him to fail or actually have done this crime. That isn't what I said at all. You want him off the team before giving him a shot at redemption.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 13:04:27 GMT -5
Oh, so now you just make up stuff? Come on, you're better than that. Im being critical of his pathetic work ethic, not rooting for him to fail or actually have done this crime. That isn't what I said at all. You want him off the team before giving him a shot at redemption. Point of reference: "Yeah that doesnt sound good. And certainly doesnt sound like the type of player this organization wants after hearing Judge speak about what he does want here."
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2020 13:04:42 GMT -5
Oh, so now you just make up stuff? Come on, you're better than that. Im being critical of his pathetic work ethic, not rooting for him to fail or actually have done this crime. That isn't what I said at all. You want him off the team before giving him a shot at redemption. IF HE COMMITTED THIS CRIME.... yes. I do. As for the rest of it, I think he has a pathetic work ethic and he needs to figure out if he wants to be the best player he can be or not. He is headed the wrong way. Even this year not showing up for the team meetings with Judge. Not a good look.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2020 13:06:04 GMT -5
That isn't what I said at all. You want him off the team before giving him a shot at redemption. Point of reference: "Yeah that doesnt sound good. And certainly doesnt sound like the type of player this organization wants after hearing Judge speak about what he does want here."That says I want him cut? In what world? I said it doesnt sound like a guy Judge wants here, from his own statements since being here.
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Post by bringsimmsback on May 19, 2020 13:12:26 GMT -5
If it turns out that this whole thing gets dropped, I hope we go back to the practice of waiting a few years before we judge how good a draft pick was.
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Post by sundown on May 19, 2020 13:13:51 GMT -5
I never brought a gun but you lack the understanding that individuals w high profiles do. You know how many celebs go out packing? I live in Texas and you can bring your gun just about anywhere here. It’s happens quite a bit. Bottom line I’m not going to kill him for having a gun or going out w it (if he has the license to do so) but i will kill him for not being more cautious given his status in life and not taking better precautions. Given his new status in life he cant go anywhere these days Obviously you don’t know how it works to carry a gun. Not supposed to carry a handgun in to an area where alcohol is being served is one thing. Not supposed to conduct illegal activity, such as unsanctioned high stakes gambling would be two. There was no legitimate reason for DeAndre baker to have brought a gun there with him. If DeAndre Baker is so worried about his safety then he shouldn’t associate with known low lives. Plain and simple. If DeAndre Baker is so worried about his safety yet there is such a compelling need to go and hang out with low lives then NFL would provide a PSD (Personal security detachment) for him. Time to cut sling load on DeAndre baker and let the rest of team know this behavior won’t be tolerated. My goodness you’re either clueless or dense. Enjoy that perfect bubble you live in dude
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 13:20:04 GMT -5
Take it easy.....nobody is lobbing insults. And, for the record, I have NEVER insulted anyone simply for disagreeing with me. Generally it is because I found something they said to be so utterly ridiculous that an insult was either warranted or just funny. I don't know what "people on this board" feeling this way has to do with me. I don't believe I ever advocated the trade of any player based on a bad interview or DG's preference of "culture players". As for the latter, you have done it in the past and are doing it as of right now with Baker. Those things you mention that we KNOW he did, while stupid and immature, he was not charged with a crime for doing so. If he is innocent of the charges, there is no risk and seeing if he can turn it all around. None. I wholeheartedly believe that you and a few other have this stance because of your hatred for Gettlaman and wanting to pin this on him. Change my mind. Ok. So far DeAndre Baker has basically shown he gives little to no damn about doing the right thing while on NY Giants. If the gun laws In Florida are anything like they are in NC then he shouldn’t have had a gun with him where alcohol was being served and consumed. Shouldn’t have had a gun with him in an establishment where he knew illegal activity was going on. Dumb. Way dumb. Perhaps even illegal. Probably won’t be charged with it. The issue I have is that the defining contribution DeAndre Baker has made to NY Giants since he’s been here has been apparent “laziness” as well as “bad decisions.” If there wasn’t a high ceiling for DeAndre Baker then he probably would’ve been cut already. If DeAndre Baker is given another chance but continues with the patterns of misconduct he’s exhibited so far then what type of message does that send to the team. It’s not about DG hatred it’s about what’s right for the team. One of the best football players on the planet was traded because of an interview, kicking a net, mimicking dog making pee pee and some other immature nonsense. Of course this was done under the auspices of “we got an offer we couldn’t refuse” or some other lame justification but it was clear why ODB was traded. Never should’ve been traded. I will tale each sentence separately. OK Agreed that his effort and attitude has been lax in the past. I also believe he woke up during the season and was getting better during the last 4 /5 games. Everyone here knows it and everyone here was looking forward to him becoming even better under Judge. It's almost Texas here in Florida. I don't think there is anywhere you can't have a gun as long as you have a permit. In fact, I think I may be committing a crime by NOT carrying a gun wherever I go. See first answer. You're right....his high ceiling is EXACTLY why he gets a second chance. The NFL is full of once "sketchy" personalities that have become terrific ball players because their talents overcame their flaws. Still not convinced. OBJ got traded because he went on a public forum and trashed the team that just made him the highest player in the NFL and NY in general. This was a John Mara decision. Both Gettleman and Shurmur wanted to keep him
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 13:22:06 GMT -5
Point of reference: "Yeah that doesnt sound good. And certainly doesnt sound like the type of player this organization wants after hearing Judge speak about what he does want here."That says I want him cut? In what world? I said it doesnt sound like a guy Judge wants here, from his own statements since being here. To you, it is the catalyst for cutting him. Did you bring that up to say we should keep him?
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