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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 12:06:31 GMT -5
Ah, I see what you mean now. Still don't see how I assumed their intent, just observed the play. They sent the playside guard after the backside LBer, wasn't much intent reading there. But whatever helps you recover, go with it. There you go. Good. Now we done? You're a trip, started it and now complains about it. Sometimes I feel like I'm on a GD knitting message board.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 12:09:05 GMT -5
Possible, but I don't see Thomas in a position to effectively do that based on where Dupree was lined up. I still think that play works if they weren't in shotgun. Oh, he definitely could've at least chipped him to the outside or affected his angle. OK, I can see that. But it would open up a lane to the other backside guy. hmmm....but the TE was right there for that. OK. It would rely on Hernandez to single the DL there in a good position, but they could have worked that effectively. I don't see it run like that much, but an option.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 12:11:03 GMT -5
Okay. That’s what an audible does. It takes into consideration that the play as called is going to get blown up unless it’s changed. So you audible to a different play to change the outcome. This includes the blocking scheme. I don't know what the option was, but it looks like Thomas was the only one with a shot at Dupree. It's possible Smith was responsible for changing his assignment to stay over the LB but that just looked like no one accounted for the blitzing LB. Im not an NFL QB but my limited understanding of the position is that you’re supposed to scan the defense and know where all of your players are supposed to be after they’re done moving around. And in the course of that pre snap read, you have to assess whether the play called has a reasonable chance of success Leaving Dupree unblocked at the line of scrimmage is probably a bad idea no matter what play is called but especially the one the Giants had called. Now I’ve read a bunch of suggestions that stated Zeitler needs to make that block, take a different angle. For my money, a smarter play would have been to not expect him to get over there against a terrific player like that. A QB has to know the scenario and audible out with more consideration directed towards Dupree.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 12:20:20 GMT -5
I don't know what the option was, but it looks like Thomas was the only one with a shot at Dupree. It's possible Smith was responsible for changing his assignment to stay over the LB but that just looked like no one accounted for the blitzing LB. Im not an NFL QB but my limited understanding of the position is that you’re supposed to scan the defense and know where all of your players are supposed to be after they’re done moving around. And in the course of that pre snap read, you have to assess whether the play called has a reasonable chance of success Leaving Dupree unblocked at the line of scrimmage is probably a bad idea not matter what play is called but especially the one the Giants had called. Now I’ve read a bunch of suggestions that stated Zeitker needs to make that block, take a different angle. For my money, a smarter play would have been to not expect him to get over there against a terrific player like that. A QB has to know the scenario and audible out with more consideration directed towards Dupree. Then the play should not have been called in the first place. The blocking scheme was fine. If you can't expect him to get over there, then don't call it because the blocking scheme shown was for him to get over there. It is also possible that Dupree knew KZ was coming once the TE motioned out, and took an angle away from him. Because once that TE moved, it was either a pass or a run to the right. They weren't running Barkley naked on a overload on the left. I think there is a few problems with the play, I just don't think the blocking scheme is one of them. Run that play under center and I think Barkley gets 4 there.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 12:46:23 GMT -5
Im not an NFL QB but my limited understanding of the position is that you’re supposed to scan the defense and know where all of your players are supposed to be after they’re done moving around. And in the course of that pre snap read, you have to assess whether the play called has a reasonable chance of success Leaving Dupree unblocked at the line of scrimmage is probably a bad idea not matter what play is called but especially the one the Giants had called. Now I’ve read a bunch of suggestions that stated Zeitker needs to make that block, take a different angle. For my money, a smarter play would have been to not expect him to get over there against a terrific player like that. A QB has to know the scenario and audible out with more consideration directed towards Dupree. Then the play should not have been called in the first place. The blocking scheme was fine. If you can't expect him to get over there, then don't call it because the blocking scheme shown was for him to get over there. It is also possible that Dupree knew KZ was coming once the TE motioned out, and took an angle away from him. Because once that TE moved, it was either a pass or a run to the right. They weren't running Barkley naked on a overload on the left. I think there is a few problems with the play, I just don't think the blocking scheme is one of them. Run that play under center and I think Barkley gets 4 there. There are a lot of plays that shouldn’t be called in the first place. It is incumbent on the QB to recognize the scenario and change the play. That is the essence of an audible to either change the play or keep the play but change the blocking scheme. Truthfully I’m not sure but I can’t imagine that there isn’t a contingency where Jones could say something that keeps the TE from going in motion or moving him back after he went in motion. I do know this. Leaving Dupree unblocked at the line of scrimmage is a recipe for disaster 99 times out of 100.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 12:51:20 GMT -5
Possible, but I don't see Thomas in a position to effectively do that based on where Dupree was lined up. I still think that play works if they weren't in shotgun. Oh, he definitely could've at least chipped him to the outside or affected his angle. So I watched a few more times and I think you are right. This might have worked better(well, couldn't have worked worse at least). At first I was afraid of the other LBer blowing up the play through the A gap, because the DL would be pushed by Hernandez opening that gap instead of using WH and Thomas to block him closing it. But if he did shoot that A gap, KZ was right there to pick him up. If Thomas pushes his angle further upfield giving SB more space, then the TE is free to either help Thomas, Hernandez or Zeitler depending on which player is breaking free.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 13:00:42 GMT -5
Then the play should not have been called in the first place. The blocking scheme was fine. If you can't expect him to get over there, then don't call it because the blocking scheme shown was for him to get over there. It is also possible that Dupree knew KZ was coming once the TE motioned out, and took an angle away from him. Because once that TE moved, it was either a pass or a run to the right. They weren't running Barkley naked on a overload on the left. I think there is a few problems with the play, I just don't think the blocking scheme is one of them. Run that play under center and I think Barkley gets 4 there. There are a lot of plays that shouldn’t be called in the first place. It is incumbent on the QB to recognize the scenario and change the play. That is the essence of an audible to either change the play or keep the play but change the blocking scheme. Truthfully I’m not sure but I can’t imagine that there isn’t a contingency where Jones could say something that keeps the TE from going in motion or moving him back after he went in motion. I do know this. Leaving Dupree unblocked at the line of scrimmage is a recipe for disaster 99 times out of 100. They didn't leave him unblocked. They left him uncovered. The scheme was set to have Zeitler blocking him. You can say that is a bad call, ok, fine. Can't really disagree based on the bad angle Zeitler took. Though, I'm not sure that I would expect a QB to change that play based on what he saw. Changing the alignment, sure. The best change there would simply be to step up under center and shift Barkley to line up right behind him. I think that would have fixed that play. And I agree the QB should have read that and done that, I just don't think changing to a different play was appropriate based on the call.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 13:23:59 GMT -5
There are a lot of plays that shouldn’t be called in the first place. It is incumbent on the QB to recognize the scenario and change the play. That is the essence of an audible to either change the play or keep the play but change the blocking scheme. Truthfully I’m not sure but I can’t imagine that there isn’t a contingency where Jones could say something that keeps the TE from going in motion or moving him back after he went in motion. I do know this. Leaving Dupree unblocked at the line of scrimmage is a recipe for disaster 99 times out of 100. They didn't leave him unblocked. They left him uncovered. The scheme was set to have Zeitler blocking him. You can say that is a bad call, ok, fine. Can't really disagree based on the bad angle Zeitler took. Though, I'm not sure that I would expect a QB to change that play based on what he saw. Changing the alignment, sure. The best change there would simply be to step up under center and shift Barkley to line up right behind him. I think that would have fixed that play. And I agree the QB should have read that and done that, I just don't think changing to a different play was appropriate based on the call. At the line of scrimmage they left him unblocked. All I’m saying is that play as constituted is a bad play because they let Dupree into the backfield without any consideration at the line of scrimmage. It’s not wise. Unless you’re trapping the player. And they weren’t.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 13:31:23 GMT -5
They didn't leave him unblocked. They left him uncovered. The scheme was set to have Zeitler blocking him. You can say that is a bad call, ok, fine. Can't really disagree based on the bad angle Zeitler took. Though, I'm not sure that I would expect a QB to change that play based on what he saw. Changing the alignment, sure. The best change there would simply be to step up under center and shift Barkley to line up right behind him. I think that would have fixed that play. And I agree the QB should have read that and done that, I just don't think changing to a different play was appropriate based on the call. At the line of scrimmage they left him unblocked. All I’m saying is that play as constituted is a bad play because they let Dupree into the backfield without any consideration at the line of scrimmage. It’s not wise. Unless you’re trapping the player. And they weren’t. Leaving him unblocked means no player was set to block him, that wasn't the case. They left him uncovered. Which you think is unwise. Which based on how the play worked out, you are right. But overall it isn't always unwise, depending on how you plan to pick it up. I like what they were trying to do there, but it wasn't executed well by KZ and the alignment in the backfield did not favor the the blocking scheme on the play IMO. If they line up under center there I think Barkley gets 4 yards....if you get Barkley 4 yards and some momentum you may end up with a huge play there.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 18, 2020 13:34:49 GMT -5
the run game was so pitiful they have a lot to overcome but hopefully some of the mistakes were so glaring on film to them they are easy fixes.
Overall they should improve this week but I am not expecting anything monumental.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 13:38:00 GMT -5
the run game was so pitiful they have a lot to overcome but hopefully some of the mistakes were so glaring on film to them they are easy fixes. Overall they should improve this week but I am not expecting anything monumental. Yeah, I was forced to reassess my season prediction after the week 1 loss to the Steelers. Now it's 15-1.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 18, 2020 15:06:53 GMT -5
What? Didn’t you once call me out, I think the word you used might have been ignorant, for not liking the gameplan saying how do I know? Asking me if I was in the locker room? Hmmm. Times have changed. That’s nothing. I’ve gotten in full out wars with some fans here. Now, we say hi in the hallways. I thought you said we'd never discuss it again? Jerk.
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rbe40
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Post by rbe40 on Sept 20, 2020 12:44:17 GMT -5
R.I.P.
Wasted draft pick.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 12:45:44 GMT -5
Season done....not even October yet. Well, off to the casino.
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redeyejedi
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Post by redeyejedi on Sept 20, 2020 14:20:07 GMT -5
His style of running will never consistently win games in the NFL Wow I said we should of traded out and everyone lost it. Such a stupid pick with all the needs the team had. Are people ready to admit Gettleman has no clue what he is doing. How many more years do we have to piss away
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Sept 20, 2020 14:24:13 GMT -5
His style of running will never consistently win games in the NFL Wow I said we should of traded out and everyone lost it. Such a stupid pick with all the needs the team had. Are people ready to admit Gettleman has no clue what he is doing. How many more years do we have to piss away Seems like trading back isn't part of the front office culture at the Giants. Maybe the 'computer guys' can talk some sense into Dave and Mara.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Sept 20, 2020 14:30:11 GMT -5
Offense looking like night and day
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 15:20:13 GMT -5
Without Barkley we do confuse other defensive coordinators. Since everyone else sucks they have no way to make a game plan against us.
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Sept 20, 2020 15:21:22 GMT -5
Without Barkley we do confuse other defensive coordinators. Since everyone else sucks they have no way to make a game plan against us. I like Barkley (not the draft value). I hope he can recover quickly. On the bright side, Lewis looked competent as a replacement.
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Post by Parademon1 on Sept 20, 2020 15:26:49 GMT -5
What kinda injury did he suffer & is it long term?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 15:28:31 GMT -5
Without Barkley we do confuse other defensive coordinators. Since everyone else sucks they have no way to make a game plan against us. I like Barkley (not the draft value). I hope he can recover quickly. On the bright side, Lewis looked competent as a replacement. He had 10 rushes for 20 yards. 2.0 yards per carry. That’s competent?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 15:28:53 GMT -5
What kinda injury did he suffer & is it long term? Yup. Torn ACL
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Post by GMenNY21 on Sept 20, 2020 15:29:05 GMT -5
What kinda injury did he suffer & is it long term? Torn ACL and potentially it could be. Depends on the player
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 20, 2020 15:58:22 GMT -5
Yeah, they should have known that was gonna happen.
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Post by allnygin on Sept 20, 2020 16:00:06 GMT -5
Sad. Hoping the best for Saquan. Stand up guy, amazing talent. It's just against the odds returning from that injury any where near the same. Although, it didn't seem to affect Adrian Peterson much.. so there is hope.
I never ever ever want to see another HB drafted by this team in the Top 10 ever again.. I don't care who it is..
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Post by McCherry on Sept 20, 2020 16:01:03 GMT -5
Fans all week: "Barkley is the problem!" Fans today: "We need Barkley!"
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Post by geogogo on Sept 20, 2020 20:20:53 GMT -5
His style of running will never consistently win games in the NFL Spoken like a person who has never watched a down of football. Really bad topic. Epic failure.
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Post by jmike on Sept 21, 2020 8:48:39 GMT -5
Yeah, they should have known that was gonna happen. Well, if you look at the injury history of RBs and their general useful life in the NFL. They did know this was going to happen.
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Post by jmike on Sept 21, 2020 8:50:59 GMT -5
Fans all week: "Barkley is the problem!" Fans today: "We need Barkley!" Honestly, I like the kid. He is a talented back. I think the team will miss his presence, just not miss his production much. I don't think this will have a major impact on the W-L record for this season though. That is still in the hands of the OL and defense, so nothing has changed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 8:53:02 GMT -5
His style of running will never consistently win games in the NFL Spoken like a person who has never watched a down of football. Really bad topic. Epic failure. I always love when someone makes this claim as if they are a supreme being of watching games. Which running back has been that consistent winner that you've watch over the years??
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