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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 22, 2020 9:09:14 GMT -5
Game time and Sarcasm man. No objectivity in your assessments. Your emotions are showing through. To not see that this team is improving over last year is just plain ridiculous. Your are expecting way too much from this team given the new regime, New systems, New players, and the covid shortened or lack of a preseason. Jones is still learning how to be a pro QB. The O-line needs time to gel. The defense needs more time together. It will take time, but already we have a pass rush, which we didn't have last year at all. We are moving the ball and trading field position, which is keeping us close in games. Special teams are playing well. In game coaching decisions are solid. Your grades are not realistic at all! You are basically asking them to grade on a curve. That’s not how it works in the NFL This is how I feel about it as well. The Giants play in the NFL they should be graded like a professional team. I didn’t give extra credit for effort, I expect maximum effort always. If you’re a unit that is going to get a very good grade in a loss you better have had an outsized performance. I didn’t see any of those on Sunday.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 22, 2020 9:30:05 GMT -5
You are basically asking them to grade on a curve. That’s not how it works in the NFL This is how I feel about it as well. The Giants play in the NFL they should be graded like a professional team. I didn’t give extra credit for effort, I expect maximum effort always. If you’re a unit that is going to get a very good grade in a loss you better have had an outsized performance. I didn’t see any of those on Sunday. But before the season began, the majority of this forum said it was a dead season, a mulligan, a pass for Joe Judge. We have regular posters who said 4-6 wins would be an improvement. That wins don't matter, only that we're competitive. So far The Giants have been competitive, and virtually no one is saying it's good enough.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 22, 2020 9:54:29 GMT -5
Yeah I get all that. I was grading with some emotion because even with all the reasons for them not to be winning they had the chance to win these last two games. I totally think Jones will be a very good NFL QB for years to come but he HAS to reign in the turnovers. Its that simple. He did protect the ball on a few hard hits and that great. His pocket awareness is better so far to a degree. I'm not grading like they are a upper leave team I am grading them on "yeah they could have and should have scored more than 17 points vs the Bears". I question the uninspired offensive play calls. The D formations with 7 DBs on the field. The D held the point s total down but missing tackles and letting Montgomery run free to keep the clock running is not a scheme issue its a tackling issue. The Bears had the ball for over 34 minutes. Thats on the offense too but the D could not get off the field. Trubisky is tossing up ducks and they are hitting their mark somehow. The TD he threw after the scramble was a lame ass pass that was in the air forever yet Ballentine was still late getting their. BTW I am not a Balletine hater like some. The kid is a 5th round pick who should not probably be starting but is because of the current CB situation we have. Add in the fact he got shot in the ass and his good friend was killed right next to him to start his NFL career. I really like the coaches and I do see improvement but that does not let the off the hook. If Judge and company don't get a handful of wins this will be hard for him to hold together. Carl Banks talked about this being on the coaches for not making in game adjustments. When Montgomery comes in, you have to know where the play is going. On the 3 big runs in the first half the defense was playing off the line and never adjusted. He talked about the staff being young college guys who don't have the experience yet. Meanwhile alot of fans here were blaming the players and giving all the credit to the coaching. They made adjustments and shut the Bears down, but the damage was done and the deficit was ultimately too hard to overcome. The coaching during the game has to improve. Jones has problems with ball handling, not decisions and execution. You want him to stay aggressive, this third down flip to Lewis as he was getting tackled was his the best play in the game. That alone kept us alive. As far as the D tackling it seemed to e the Bears zone run scheme was overwhelming the front 7 and they couldn't find a lane to tackle. Maybe having too many DBs 7 to 8) on the field effected that? I am not that astute on the Xs and Os to know that. I am huge fan of Jones and even made several posts about how every turnover will be amplified but shouldn't be unless by game 5 or 6 he still coughing up it twice per game. I am guilty as charged and maybe made too much of it at this time Judge said what you inferred to for him to keep his aggressive nature and I agree 100%. I just want them to win so bad and they could have in both of the first two games. What a boost it would be of course. The game vs the Bears, to me, was not a step forward like I wanted to see.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 22, 2020 10:09:41 GMT -5
Look, they’re 12-38 in their last 50 games, so most of us are tired of hearing about moral victories and improvement. It’s time to start winning games. I know that Judge is brand new to this, so it’s not his fault, but a lot are losing patience, and rightfully so. To be fair, didn't you and others argue with me that this season wasn't about winning and that 6-10 would considered be an improvement? Not sure that I said it that way … but in any event, I believe that I was speaking in terms of evaluating the new coaching staff at the end of the season. While 6 wins would technically be an improvement from last year, my point was that this is not a very good team (it was probably a 6 or 7 win team before our best player got hurt) and that significant improvement shouldn't be expected this year with a new coach, new system and no offseason. That being said, we still haven't won a game and most of us are tired of hearing about some vague "improvement" spotted in losing games. We don't want to hear about "moral victories" any more - we want real victories. Obviously, this frustration is due to the last 3+ years of terrible football, the vast majority of which did not involve this current coaching staff ….
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Post by DandyDon on Sept 22, 2020 10:22:07 GMT -5
To be fair, didn't you and others argue with me that this season wasn't about winning and that 6-10 would considered be an improvement? Not sure that I said it that way … but in any event, I believe that I was speaking in terms of evaluating the new coaching staff at the end of the season. While 6 wins would technically be an improvement from last year, my point was that this is not a very good team (it was probably a 6 or 7 win team before our best player got hurt) and that significant improvement shouldn't be expected this year with a new coach, new system and no offseason. That being said, we still haven't won a game and most of us are tired of hearing about some vague "improvement" spotted in losing games. We don't want to hear about "moral victories" any more - we want real victories. Obviously, this frustration is due to the last 3+ years of terrible football, the vast majority of which did not involve this current coaching staff …. It's even more frustrating when we actually have opportunities to win the games and don't. Loosing has become a habit. Also, when half of the game looks completely different from the other half.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 22, 2020 11:15:34 GMT -5
To be fair, didn't you and others argue with me that this season wasn't about winning and that 6-10 would considered be an improvement? Not sure that I said it that way … but in any event, I believe that I was speaking in terms of evaluating the new coaching staff at the end of the season. While 6 wins would technically be an improvement from last year, my point was that this is not a very good team (it was probably a 6 or 7 win team before our best player got hurt) and that significant improvement shouldn't be expected this year with a new coach, new system and no offseason. That being said, we still haven't won a game and most of us are tired of hearing about some vague "improvement" spotted in losing games. We don't want to hear about "moral victories" any more - we want real victories. Obviously, this frustration is due to the last 3+ years of terrible football, the vast majority of which did not involve this current coaching staff …. True, but if we acknowledge that significant improvement shouldn't be expected at all this season, then fans shouldn't be too surprised when we lose to better teams only 2 weeks in. But we also shouldn't dismiss the fact we've been competitive and have improved noticeably just because we came up short in games we were expected to lose. The wins will come if we have any faith in this staff. Fans aren't as patient as they claim to be in the offseason.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 22, 2020 11:19:41 GMT -5
This is how I feel about it as well. The Giants play in the NFL they should be graded like a professional team. I didn’t give extra credit for effort, I expect maximum effort always. If you’re a unit that is going to get a very good grade in a loss you better have had an outsized performance. I didn’t see any of those on Sunday. But before the season began, the majority of this forum said it was a dead season, a mulligan, a pass for Joe Judge. We have regular posters who said 4-6 wins would be an improvement. That wins don't matter, only that we're competitive. So far The Giants have been competitive, and virtually no one is saying it's good enough. My prediction was 10-6 after Judge was hired....but that was before Covid. I thought these players HAD to develop finally, especially under this HC. So far it seems I was wrong. Not sure many of these guys will ever become good NFL players. This is especially true on defense. Very discouraging.
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Post by giantsrock on Sept 22, 2020 11:22:44 GMT -5
judge may turn into a decent coach but he's not there yet. Not challenging DJ's fumble in week 1, sloppy time management at the end of the first half Sunday and then there's things like this
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Post by GameTime on Sept 22, 2020 11:32:03 GMT -5
judge may turn into a decent coach but he's not there yet. Not challenging DJ's fumble in week 1, sloppy time management at the end of the first half Sunday and then there's things like this he's rookie HC of course there will be growing pains. Also established HCs make mistakes pretty often as well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 11:35:34 GMT -5
judge may turn into a decent coach but he's not there yet. Not challenging DJ's fumble in week 1, sloppy time management at the end of the first half Sunday and then there's things like this he's rookie HC of course there will be growing pains. Also established HCs make mistakes pretty often as well. You have to admit that's a pretty stupid mistake and I hope this Jeff person sent Judge a text about this play..
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 22, 2020 11:37:25 GMT -5
judge may turn into a decent coach but he's not there yet. Not challenging DJ's fumble in week 1, sloppy time management at the end of the first half Sunday and then there's things like this While I agree we should have challenged that play, it would have only been a gain of a yard or so. If the refs had called it correctly it would have been a TD. But since they didn't, they wouldn't have allowed anything other than a recovery for us. Any gain after the recovery wouldn't have counted after the review.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 22, 2020 11:44:29 GMT -5
he's rookie HC of course there will be growing pains. Also established HCs make mistakes pretty often as well. You have to admit that's a pretty stupid mistake and I hope this Jeff person sent Judge a text about this play.. I cant imagine this didnt go unnoticed in the film room.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 22, 2020 11:46:21 GMT -5
he's rookie HC of course there will be growing pains. Also established HCs make mistakes pretty often as well. You have to admit that's a pretty stupid mistake and I hope this Jeff person sent Judge a text about this play.. Maybe not a good idea. If I'm Jeff, I'd probably spend a few minutes thinking about why Gates might not be touching the ball before rushing to social media to celebrate my potential ignorance.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 11:48:26 GMT -5
You have to admit that's a pretty stupid mistake and I hope this Jeff person sent Judge a text about this play.. Maybe not a good idea. If I'm Jeff, I'd probably spend a few minutes thinking about why Gates might not be touching the ball before rushing to social media to celebrate my potential ignorance. What??
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 22, 2020 11:59:57 GMT -5
Maybe not a good idea. If I'm Jeff, I'd probably spend a few minutes thinking about why Gates might not be touching the ball before rushing to social media to celebrate my potential ignorance. What?? My conclusion is that Jeff can not come up with any reasons as to why that first year center in his second NFL game didn't have his hand on the ball. I'm very, very happy that Jeff is not working in the NY Giants organization. I'm even happier that Jeff thinks he knows more than al of the coaches. That's awesome and completely unsurprising coming from some rando on social media.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 12:02:54 GMT -5
My conclusion is that Jeff can not come up with any reasons as to why that first year center in his second NFL game didn't have his hand on the ball. I'm very, very happy that Jeff is not working in the NY Giants organization. I'm even happier that Jeff thinks he knows more than al of the coaches. That's awesome and completely unsurprising coming from some rando on social media. You are making no sense but thanks for the response I think.. GO GIANTS!!
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Post by DandyDon on Sept 22, 2020 12:04:33 GMT -5
judge may turn into a decent coach but he's not there yet. Not challenging DJ's fumble in week 1, sloppy time management at the end of the first half Sunday and then there's things like this He undoubtedly suspected there was covid on the ball. Just being cautious....
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 22, 2020 12:06:54 GMT -5
My conclusion is that Jeff can not come up with any reasons as to why that first year center in his second NFL game didn't have his hand on the ball. I'm very, very happy that Jeff is not working in the NY Giants organization. I'm even happier that Jeff thinks he knows more than al of the coaches. That's awesome and completely unsurprising coming from some rando on social media. Coaches DO screw up. There is no reason to run the offense out on the field and have them just stand there.
So what do the coaches "know" that we don't do you think?
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Post by thetruth on Sept 22, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5
Gameball for all of you should have been Bradberry.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 22, 2020 12:12:16 GMT -5
My conclusion is that Jeff can not come up with any reasons as to why that first year center in his second NFL game didn't have his hand on the ball. I'm very, very happy that Jeff is not working in the NY Giants organization. I'm even happier that Jeff thinks he knows more than al of the coaches. That's awesome and completely unsurprising coming from some rando on social media. It was mentioned somewhere that it's very possible that instead of trying to draw the bears offside, the Giants were looking to see how the bears defense lined up against them so that if there was an easy gain visible they would run a play, otherwise they would punt...
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Post by GameTime on Sept 22, 2020 12:12:55 GMT -5
Gameball for all of you should have been Bradberry. I actually thought the same thing after I stopped being annoyed.... Yes....he had a very good game for sure.
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Post by thetruth on Sept 22, 2020 12:28:12 GMT -5
Gameball for all of you should have been Bradberry. I actually thought the same thing after I stopped being annoyed.... Yes....he had a very good game for sure. I thought we overpaid, pleasntly surprised how well he's playing. Absolutely lock down. If he can continue this it can be a positive for many years!
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Post by GameTime on Sept 22, 2020 12:33:02 GMT -5
I actually thought the same thing after I stopped being annoyed.... Yes....he had a very good game for sure. I thought we overpaid, pleasntly surprised how well he's playing. Absolutely lock down. If he can continue this it can be a positive for many years! He came with a decent resume'. I know the catches against may have been a bit high in the past. Only two games but s far so good. Martinez as well. As advertised
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Post by thetruth on Sept 22, 2020 12:56:40 GMT -5
I thought we overpaid, pleasntly surprised how well he's playing. Absolutely lock down. If he can continue this it can be a positive for many years! He came with a decent resume'. I know the catches against may have been a bit high in the past. Only two games but s far so good. Martinez as well. As advertised Martinez has been excellent thus far.
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Post by imgrate on Sept 22, 2020 13:12:34 GMT -5
You are basically asking them to grade on a curve. That’s not how it works in the NFL This is how I feel about it as well. The Giants play in the NFL they should be graded like a professional team. I didn’t give extra credit for effort, I expect maximum effort always. If you’re a unit that is going to get a very good grade in a loss you better have had an outsized performance. I didn’t see any of those on Sunday. Going into any game in the NFL, if you told me they gave up 17 points or less I'd say you should win the game. On the other hand if you told me you're going to score 20points or less, I'd say you're probably going to lose. Defense's job is to hold them to 17 or less and offense's job is to score atleast 20. Based on my completely subjective (but probably has basis in league scoring average) criteria, I would say the defense did their job and the offense didn't.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 22, 2020 13:34:23 GMT -5
This is how I feel about it as well. The Giants play in the NFL they should be graded like a professional team. I didn’t give extra credit for effort, I expect maximum effort always. If you’re a unit that is going to get a very good grade in a loss you better have had an outsized performance. I didn’t see any of those on Sunday. Going into any game in the NFL, if you told me they gave up 17 points or less I'd say you should win the game. On the other hand if you told me you're going to score 20points or less, I'd say you're probably going to lose. Defense's job is to hold them to 17 or less and offense's job is to score atleast 20. Based on my completely subjective (but probably has basis in league scoring average) criteria, I would say the defense did their job and the offense didn't. 13 points vs. a bad defense definitely isn't good enough.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Sept 22, 2020 14:01:19 GMT -5
judge may turn into a decent coach but he's not there yet. Not challenging DJ's fumble in week 1, sloppy time management at the end of the first half Sunday and then there's things like this I said that on the game day thread. WTF was Gates doing? Does he not know he can touch the ball and not snap it?
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Post by imgrate on Sept 22, 2020 14:33:30 GMT -5
Fair enough, but no way they deserve less than a C Fair enough, I have come to realize I'm a harsh grader. You start the game at a C and it goes from there. Given the opponent, Trubisky's struggles to throw a decent pass and the Chicago run game pretty much having its way, it didn't seem to me that the defense did anything that noteworthy yesterday other than the periods of time I mentioned. C is average, right? Defenses should start the game with an A+, because hell they haven't given up any yardage or points yet, perfect game! Opposite can be applied for offense. Since you like to start with a C, the average of those two is a C to start the game, boom!
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Post by GameTime on Sept 22, 2020 14:34:28 GMT -5
He came with a decent resume'. I know the catches against may have been a bit high in the past. Only two games but s far so good. Martinez as well. As advertised Martinez has been excellent thus far. yep...thats what I meant. Several on here saying his stats were padded and not really impact to the game in GB. I called BS. Liked the signing from day one.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 22, 2020 14:40:49 GMT -5
This is how I feel about it as well. The Giants play in the NFL they should be graded like a professional team. I didn’t give extra credit for effort, I expect maximum effort always. If you’re a unit that is going to get a very good grade in a loss you better have had an outsized performance. I didn’t see any of those on Sunday. Going into any game in the NFL, if you told me they gave up 17 points or less I'd say you should win the game. On the other hand if you told me you're going to score 20points or less, I'd say you're probably going to lose. Defense's job is to hold them to 17 or less and offense's job is to score atleast 20. Based on my completely subjective (but probably has basis in league scoring average) criteria, I would say the defense did their job and the offense didn't. Bears held the ball for 34+ minutes. Thats on the NYGs D partly and they converted way too many first downs. The Giant D and O are equal in their level of play in most aspects.
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