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Post by McCherry on Apr 2, 2021 13:01:06 GMT -5
There is no issue to make. I'm saying the team most accurately represents the way they played in the second half schedule. You want to judge the team based on last September, when the offensive line had no actual playing experience, or when the offense/defense didn't know their responsibilities and Jones didn't even know the playbook, fine, but it's not relevant. I am judging the team on a full season. The reason the team didnt perform well was not because the lack of knowledge of the play book. They didnt perform well because they didnt physically and mentally play well. You friends with Jones? Did he admit to you he didnt know the okay book? He would laugh in your face if you accused him of that. I have high hopes for the upcoming season like I do every year. I dont make excuses I dont "cherry pick" either. I don't know what this means, but we had a new staff, new system, new lineup, no offseason or preseason. The first 4 weeks was the preseason for them, it's obvious why they struggled in the beginning.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 2, 2021 13:06:44 GMT -5
I am judging the team on a full season. The reason the team didnt perform well was not because the lack of knowledge of the play book. They didnt perform well because they didnt physically and mentally play well. You friends with Jones? Did he admit to you he didnt know the okay book? He would laugh in your face if you accused him of that. I have high hopes for the upcoming season like I do every year. I dont make excuses I dont "cherry pick" either. I don't know what this means, but had a new staff, new system, new lineup, no offseason or preseason. The first 4 weeks was the preseason for them, it's obvious why they struggled in the beginning. you say a reason they didnt perform well is because they didnt know the play book. I call BS. They didnt perform well because they didnt play well enough above and beyond the playbook. Its simple for me because I dont make excuses. There are valid reasosn they were 6-10. The knowledge of the playbook is not one of them. Does that make sense.?
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Post by McCherry on Apr 2, 2021 13:12:36 GMT -5
I don't know what this means, but had a new staff, new system, new lineup, no offseason or preseason. The first 4 weeks was the preseason for them, it's obvious why they struggled in the beginning. you say a reason they didnt perform well is because they didnt know the play book. I call BS. They didnt perform well because they didnt play well enough above and beyond the playbook. Its simple for me because I dont make excuses. There are valid reasosn they were 6-10. The knowledge of the playbook is not one of them. Does that make sense.?No.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 2, 2021 13:25:45 GMT -5
you say a reason they didnt perform well is because they didnt know the play book. I call BS. They didnt perform well because they didnt play well enough above and beyond the playbook. Its simple for me because I dont make excuses. There are valid reasosn they were 6-10. The knowledge of the playbook is not one of them. Does that make sense.?No. Ok...so the NYGs were ill prepared and didn know the play book well enough to win games.. So if the changed OCs this season you'd expect the same? I hope not because that would be ridiculous. glad we got that cleared up
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 2, 2021 13:51:19 GMT -5
thats BS.....its not acceptable at all. What should the fans do? Storm the FO like a bunch mindless dolts? Fans are so obsessed with the teams past record. Who cares what the Giants did 4 years ago? It's meaningless. This Giants team is 5-3, that's the only proper relevant measure of where we are right now. It’s as if losing has caused mental damage. The Giants haven't had losing streaks before? Was anyone else around in the 70's or 90's? And I'm relatively young for this forum. So what is the standard for which games we should count and those we should not count?
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Post by McCherry on Apr 2, 2021 14:41:05 GMT -5
Fans are so obsessed with the teams past record. Who cares what the Giants did 4 years ago? It's meaningless. This Giants team is 5-3, that's the only proper relevant measure of where we are right now. It’s as if losing has caused mental damage. The Giants haven't had losing streaks before? Was anyone else around in the 70's or 90's? And I'm relatively young for this forum. So what is the standard for which games we should count and those we should not count? What do you place more emphasis on, a rookie head coaches first 8 games. Or the last 8? Add the cancellation of the entire offseason and preseason. You don’t think there’s a learning curve? This was discussed ad nauseam for months before the season.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 2, 2021 15:24:07 GMT -5
So what is the standard for which games we should count and those we should not count? What do you place more emphasis on, a rookie head coaches first 8 games. Or the last 8? Add the cancellation of the entire offseason and preseason. You don’t think there’s a learning curve? This was discussed ad nauseam for months before the season. How about his last 4? That would be 1-3. Wouldn't the last 4 games be more pertinent that the first 12?
So I'll ask again....Which games should we count and which should we not?
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,925
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Post by giantsalmon on Apr 2, 2021 15:29:01 GMT -5
NYG are going to win the NFC East this upcoming season. Whatever that takes in the win column. Pushin' the chips to the center of the table.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 2, 2021 15:32:27 GMT -5
What do you place more emphasis on, a rookie head coaches first 8 games. Or the last 8? Add the cancellation of the entire offseason and preseason. You don’t think there’s a learning curve? This was discussed ad nauseam for months before the season. How about his last 4? That would be 1-3. Wouldn't the last 4 games be more pertinent that the first 12?
So I'll ask again....Which games should we count and which should we not?
I never said we don’t have work to do, but clearly we were a different team than the 1-7 one that started the season. Had a nice win to close the season which was essentially a playoff game. You can’t say we didn’t improve under Judge.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 2, 2021 16:15:37 GMT -5
What do you place more emphasis on, a rookie head coaches first 8 games. Or the last 8? Add the cancellation of the entire offseason and preseason. You don’t think there’s a learning curve? This was discussed ad nauseam for months before the season. How about his last 4? That would be 1-3. Wouldn't the last 4 games be more pertinent that the first 12?
So I'll ask again....Which games should we count and which should we not?
with 16 games they all matter and they all tell part of the whole story
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Post by GameTime on Apr 2, 2021 16:18:15 GMT -5
NYG are going to win the NFC East this upcoming season. Whatever that takes in the win column. Pushin' the chips to the center of the table. I did a "Fassel" last season. I forget at which point I went all in with a division win. Probably some point in the second half when the whole division was a wreck and up for grabs. I thought maybe finish 8-8 at that point. This season 10-6 would be awesome.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 2, 2021 16:46:31 GMT -5
NYG are going to win the NFC East this upcoming season. Whatever that takes in the win column. Pushin' the chips to the center of the table. I did a "Fassel" last season. I forget at which point I went all in with a division win. Probably some point in the second half when the whole division was a wreck and up for grabs. I thought maybe finish 8-8 at that point. This season 10-6 would be awesome. Or 10-7?
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Post by GameTime on Apr 2, 2021 17:25:56 GMT -5
I did a "Fassel" last season. I forget at which point I went all in with a division win. Probably some point in the second half when the whole division was a wreck and up for grabs. I thought maybe finish 8-8 at that point. This season 10-6 would be awesome. Or 10-7? thank you for the correction..!!! 10-7......I'll take that. 11-6......even better!!
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 2, 2021 23:48:02 GMT -5
How about his last 4? That would be 1-3. Wouldn't the last 4 games be more pertinent that the first 12?
So I'll ask again....Which games should we count and which should we not?
I never said we don’t have work to do, but clearly we were a different team than the 1-7 one that started the season. Had a nice win to close the season which was essentially a playoff game. You can’t say we didn’t improve under Judge. The defense improved. The offense was awful all season. And the Browns, Cards and Ravens games were also essentially playoff games. we got blown out in all three.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 2, 2021 23:54:50 GMT -5
I agree with you. Giants fans have become so used to losing they no longer hold the team accountable.
You are absolutely right...15-33 is unfortunately becoming acceptable to Giants fans.
This is a flawed argument. No one is content with being 15-33 or 6-10 or anything close to that. There are reasonable and realistic fans that recognize that a team that starts out the first half of a season with no OTAs, a new coaching staff and playbook and without a true preseason resulting in a record of 1-7 and then pulls together and goes 5-3 in the second half is a team that is finally starting to show improvement. In other words they dealt with what the entire league did.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 3, 2021 0:32:13 GMT -5
This is a flawed argument. No one is content with being 15-33 or 6-10 or anything close to that. There are reasonable and realistic fans that recognize that a team that starts out the first half of a season with no OTAs, a new coaching staff and playbook and without a true preseason resulting in a record of 1-7 and then pulls together and goes 5-3 in the second half is a team that is finally starting to show improvement. In other words they dealt with what the entire league did. Yes, this is true, if every NFL team had a 2nd year QB with a new head coach, a new playbook with a new offensive coordinator and a new defensive coordinator. Then your statement would be correct.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 3, 2021 8:56:55 GMT -5
In other words they dealt with what the entire league did. Yes, this is true, if every NFL team had a 2nd year QB with a new head coach, a new playbook with a new offensive coordinator and a new defensive coordinator. Then your statement would be correct. Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer.
It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference.
The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse.
The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them.
The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 2,094
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Post by te88 on Apr 3, 2021 9:21:25 GMT -5
Yes, this is true, if every NFL team had a 2nd year QB with a new head coach, a new playbook with a new offensive coordinator and a new defensive coordinator. Then your statement would be correct. Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer.
It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference.
The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse.
The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them.
The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
Exactly. The Giants had a soft division and still couldn’t compete. As much as I like Joe Judge, the Giants are still a very bad team as of now. The offence was absolutely putrid. This franchise always seems to have a problem capitalizing on favourable circumstances. When they do win they take the hard route. When it’s served up for them they crumble or shoot themselves in the foot. Washington deserved to win the division. If they had a QB situation that wasn’t so ridiculous they would have easily smoked the entire division. It is hard to look at the WFT of Dan Snyder and see a better built roster than here. Very good OL (even after losing Williams) and DL. Very good #1 receiver. Strong stable of RBs. Strong HC and DC. If they ever figure out the QB the rest of the NFC East is in trouble. Fitzpatrick is enough to make them the team to beat really.
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Post by snyder55 on Apr 3, 2021 9:21:40 GMT -5
How about his last 4? That would be 1-3. Wouldn't the last 4 games be more pertinent that the first 12?
So I'll ask again....Which games should we count and which should we not?
with 16 games they all matter and they all tell part of the whole story agreed, you can't cherry pick the part of the season you like and pretend the other part didn't happen....
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 2,094
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Post by te88 on Apr 3, 2021 9:21:52 GMT -5
Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer.
It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference.
The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse.
The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them.
The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
Exactly. The Giants had a soft division and still couldn’t compete. As much as I like Joe Judge, the Giants are still a very bad team as of now. The offence was absolutely putrid. This franchise always seems to have a problem capitalizing on favourable circumstances. When they do win they take the hard route. When it’s served up for them they crumble or shoot themselves in the foot. Washington deserved to win the division. If they had a QB situation that wasn’t so ridiculous they would have easily smoked the entire division. It is hard to look at the WFT of Dan Snyder and see a better built roster than here. Very good OL (even after losing Williams) and DL. Very good #1 receiver. Strong stable of RBs. Strong HC and DC. If they ever figure out the QB the rest of the NFC East is in trouble. Fitzpatrick is enough to make them the team to beat really. And they dealt with way tougher circumstances than the Giants
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 3, 2021 9:46:28 GMT -5
Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer. It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference. The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse. The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them. The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
Exactly. The Giants had a soft division and still couldn’t compete. As much as I like Joe Judge, the Giants are still a very bad team as of now. The offence was absolutely putrid. This franchise always seems to have a problem capitalizing on favourable circumstances. When they do win they take the hard route. When it’s served up for them they crumble or shoot themselves in the foot. Washington deserved to win the division. If they had a QB situation that wasn’t so ridiculous they would have easily smoked the entire division. It is hard to look at the WFT of Dan Snyder and see a better built roster than here. Very good OL (even after losing Williams) and DL. Very good #1 receiver. Strong stable of RBs. Strong HC and DC. If they ever figure out the QB the rest of the NFC East is in trouble. Fitzpatrick is enough to make them the team to beat really. Washington also changed how they address free agency. The days of them spending carelessly might be over. Either Snyder fell on his head, or he’s finally listening to his football people. That team seems to be an afterthought around here, but in all seriousness they’re the team to beat. They have everything but a quarterback, and like you mentioned. Fitzpatrick is a good enough quarterback in this league.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 3, 2021 14:07:11 GMT -5
Yes, this is true, if every NFL team had a 2nd year QB with a new head coach, a new playbook with a new offensive coordinator and a new defensive coordinator. Then your statement would be correct. Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer.
It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference.
The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse.
The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them.
The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
You’re saying the list I made should have no impact on their performance in the first half of the season? You do realize you needed to example 3 teams to come up with a similar scenario? As far as Mayfield, you don’t think the 3rd year for a QB in the NFL is the one where things slow down? Because if you don’t, you’re probably alone in that opinion. And since you are always stating that this is “ Joe’s Team” why don’t you direct your dismay his way?
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 3, 2021 14:15:25 GMT -5
Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer.
It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference.
The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse.
The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them.
The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
You’re saying the list I made should have no impact on their performance in the first half of the season? You do realize you needed to example 3 teams to come up with a similar scenario? As far as Mayfield, you don’t think the 3rd year for a QB in the NFL is the one where things slow down? Because if you don’t, you’re probably alone in that opinion. And since you are always stating that this is “ Joe’s Team” why don’t you direct your dismay his way? If Joe goes 15-33 in his first three seasons, he should be fired immediately.
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Post by jb456 on Apr 3, 2021 14:23:12 GMT -5
Yes, this is true, if every NFL team had a 2nd year QB with a new head coach, a new playbook with a new offensive coordinator and a new defensive coordinator. Then your statement would be correct. Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer.
It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference.
The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse.
The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them.
The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
Answer all of these questions: 1) Do you feel the Giants are moving in the right direction? Y or N 2) Do you feel that Judge is the Giants coach of the future? Y or N 3) Do you feel that Daniel Jones has a chance to develop into the Giants franchise QB? Y or N 4) How many games do you predict the Giants win in 2020? If you answer yes to 1 and 2, get ready for some more DG....
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 3, 2021 14:26:27 GMT -5
Oh my, the list of excuses is getting longer and longer.
It has to now be a "second year QB" Then add the coordinator. Then add the new HC. I must say I'm impressed with the length of the list, but the specificity is what's striking. Baker Mayfield was on his 4th coordinator in 3 seasons. He had a new HC....his 4th. Oh wait, it was year 3 instead of year 2 for him. Forget it, that makes all the difference.
The Dolphins had a rookie QB. Oh wait.....2nd year HC. That's another disqualifier as an excuse.
The Redskins had no QB, a new HC, new coordinators. I'm sure you'll find some other excuse for us in relation to them.
The reality that the pandemic made it difficult for every team, and it did in many different ways. using that as an excuse, as if every other team didn't have to deal with the exact same thing....is weak......VERY weak.
Answer all of these questions: 1) Do you feel the Giants are moving in the right direction? Y or N 2) Do you feel that Judge is the Giants coach of the future? Y or N 3) Do you feel that Daniel Jones has a chance to develop into the Giants franchise QB? Y or N 4) How many games do you predict the Giants win in 2020? If you answer yes to 1 and 2, get ready for some more DG.... When your team has been this bad for this long......what other direction is there?
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Post by Jomo on Apr 3, 2021 14:38:30 GMT -5
This is the year where it need to leap (not just move) forward....and not just how we feel about the roster but what our record says about the team.
DGs first year was a throw away, some just won't admit it. Whatever the record, it was mostly the sorry sad sacks that JR had assembled on that roster. That was followed by a few healthy mistakes in FA but the last 2 years (let's see how this draft goes) have seemed to be quite good including the possibility that we have replaced our franchise QB with one who could be that guy.
DG owns this roster now, enough time has passed and so.... Last chance motel for DG this year. I am excited to see how it goes.
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Post by jb456 on Apr 3, 2021 14:47:24 GMT -5
Answer all of these questions: 1) Do you feel the Giants are moving in the right direction? Y or N 2) Do you feel that Judge is the Giants coach of the future? Y or N 3) Do you feel that Daniel Jones has a chance to develop into the Giants franchise QB? Y or N 4) How many games do you predict the Giants win in 2020? If you answer yes to 1 and 2, get ready for some more DG.... When your team has been this bad for this long......what other direction is there? Dude, I used to think you were even keeled. When did you jump on the DG bandwagon?
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Post by snyder55 on Apr 3, 2021 16:01:26 GMT -5
I have no problem with it being Joe's team as long as we keep showing progress, other wise compliments are just meaningless ..
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 3, 2021 16:30:33 GMT -5
I have no problem with it being Joe's team as long as we keep showing progress, other wise compliments are just meaningless .. With all due respect...."showing progress" is a bullshit standard.
We have to win. And we have to win THIS year. We couldn't do it with normal team building, like building through the draft. So now we had to go all out in free agency. There is no excuse not to win 11 games. It's time to break out, not just "show progress".
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Post by Jomo on Apr 3, 2021 17:23:03 GMT -5
I have no problem with it being Joe's team as long as we keep showing progress, other wise compliments are just meaningless .. With all due respect...."showing progress" is a bullshit standard.
We have to win. And we have to win THIS year. We couldn't do it with normal team building, like building through the draft. So now we had to go all out in free agency. There is no excuse not to win 11 games. It's time to break out, not just "show progress".
It is hysterical that you'd try to drop that one on DG. After 2007, it became JR's legacy. We actually had our best draft in a long time last year. (probably since 2007)
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