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Post by McCherry on Jul 19, 2021 13:17:29 GMT -5
I never did get why Matt Dodge got so much flak for that D Jax game. He wasn't on the offense that became complacent with a 31-10 lead and he certainly wasn't on the defense that allowed 28 points in the 4th quarter. But yeah, let's blame a punter and send him death threats. Tom certainly didn't help matters by publicly humiliating Matt Dodge after that punt. Maybe he was an easy target to blame in that instance, but he was an awful punter. He was out of the league after that year.
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Post by thetruth on Jul 19, 2021 13:34:18 GMT -5
Coughin was a massive failure at Jax. I get where Ramsey is coming from.
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Post by SG88 on Jul 19, 2021 13:37:45 GMT -5
I never did get why Matt Dodge got so much flak for that D Jax game. He wasn't on the offense that became complacent with a 31-10 lead and he certainly wasn't on the defense that allowed 28 points in the 4th quarter. But yeah, let's blame a punter and send him death threats. Tom certainly didn't help matters by publicly humiliating Matt Dodge after that punt. Maybe he was an easy target to blame in that instance, but he was an awful punter. He was out of the league after that year. He definitely was low-hanging fruit.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 19, 2021 13:43:16 GMT -5
I never did get why Matt Dodge got so much flak for that D Jax game. He wasn't on the offense that became complacent with a 31-10 lead and he certainly wasn't on the defense that allowed 28 points in the 4th quarter. But yeah, let's blame a punter and send him death threats. Tom certainly didn't help matters by publicly humiliating Matt Dodge after that punt.
Yeah, chewing out the rookie punter after a total team collapse was not one of Tom's finest moments and I'm sure he'd agree.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 19, 2021 14:08:10 GMT -5
I never did get why Matt Dodge got so much flak for that D Jax game. He wasn't on the offense that became complacent with a 31-10 lead and he certainly wasn't on the defense that allowed 28 points in the 4th quarter. But yeah, let's blame a punter and send him death threats. Tom certainly didn't help matters by publicly humiliating Matt Dodge after that punt.
Yeah, chewing out the rookie punter after a total team collapse was not one of Tom's finest moments and I'm sure he'd agree.
There were 12 seconds left in the game. It was tied, but had Dodge done his job it would've gone to overtime. You can question Coughlin's overreaction, but Matt Dodge absolutely cost us the game and the division.
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Post by SG88 on Jul 19, 2021 14:11:55 GMT -5
Yeah, chewing out the rookie punter after a total team collapse was not one of Tom's finest moments and I'm sure he'd agree.
There were 12 seconds left in the game. It was tied, but had Dodge done his job it would've gone to overtime. You can question Coughlin's overreaction, but Matt Dodge absolutely cost us the game and the division. So the defense allowing 28 points in the 4th quarter and the offense doing nothing after going up 31-10 had nothing to do with it? Why play the other 59 minutes and 48 seconds if we are going to base the outcome on the last 12 seconds. Of course he is partly to blame, but blaming him exclusively is something I don't agree with at all. I'm not going to go back and forth about this, so feel free to have the last word. The Giants also still had their chance the following week against the Packers and totally no-showed. Blaming Dodge for the following week is even more mindboggling of an opinion to have.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 19, 2021 14:17:26 GMT -5
I never did get why Matt Dodge got so much flak for that D Jax game. He wasn't on the offense that became complacent with a 31-10 lead and he certainly wasn't on the defense that allowed 28 points in the 4th quarter. But yeah, let's blame a punter and send him death threats. Tom certainly didn't help matters by publicly humiliating Matt Dodge after that punt.
Yeah, chewing out the rookie punter after a total team collapse was not one of Tom's finest moments and I'm sure he'd agree.
What should he have done? Bake him a cake? Dodges sole job was to punt it away from Jackson. What did he do? He punted it right to him. Short memory around here. Dodge was awful all season that year. That was just the straw that broke the camels back..
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Post by McCherry on Jul 19, 2021 14:35:56 GMT -5
There were 12 seconds left in the game. It was tied, but had Dodge done his job it would've gone to overtime. You can question Coughlin's overreaction, but Matt Dodge absolutely cost us the game and the division. So the defense allowing 28 points in the 4th quarter and the offense doing nothing after going up 31-10 had nothing to do with it? Why play the other 59 minutes and 48 seconds if we are going to base the outcome on the last 12 seconds. Of course he is partly to blame, but blaming him exclusively is something I don't agree with at all. I'm not going to go back and forth about this, so feel free to have the last word. The Giants also still had their chance the following week against the Packers and totally no-showed. Blaming Dodge for the following week is even more mindboggling of an opinion to have. Because that's why you play for a full 60 minutes. Teams win on last second FG's all the time and no one remembers or cares how badly they played or were outplayed the other 59 minutes. Sometimes that's how it goes. It's not about outplaying your opponent for 4 quarters, it’s about winning when the game is on the line. Again, the Giants could’ve lost in OT anyway. But Dodge lost that game on that punt, he knew it at the time, there’s no debate about it. The only debate here is Tom's reaction, but I'm sure many coaches would've done the same thing.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 19, 2021 15:41:19 GMT -5
Yeah, chewing out the rookie punter after a total team collapse was not one of Tom's finest moments and I'm sure he'd agree.
What should he have done? Bake him a cake? Dodges sole job was to punt it away from Jackson. What did he do? He punted it right to him. Short memory around here. Dodge was awful all season that year. That was just the straw that broke the camels back..
I'm not saying he shouldn't have been livid, but I don't think he should have shown up his rookie punter in front of a TV audience.
Dodge was one of if not the weakest links on that team, and we all know whose decision it was to put him there.
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Post by Roswell on Jul 19, 2021 16:15:44 GMT -5
I'm hazy on the whole "Jalen ain't like Tom." thing.
Is he using ain't as in "isn't" or as in "doesn't?"
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 19, 2021 16:38:13 GMT -5
I'm hazy on the whole "Jalen ain't like Tom." thing. Is he using ain't as in "isn't" or as in "doesn't?" I think so.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 19, 2021 17:43:56 GMT -5
What should he have done? Bake him a cake? Dodges sole job was to punt it away from Jackson. What did he do? He punted it right to him. Short memory around here. Dodge was awful all season that year. That was just the straw that broke the camels back..
I'm not saying he shouldn't have been livid, but I don't think he should have shown up his rookie punter in front of a TV audience.
Dodge was one of if not the weakest links on that team, and we all know whose decision it was to put him there.
After that game. The expression “get out of Dodge.” Took on a whole new meaning.
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Post by jb456 on Jul 19, 2021 19:27:18 GMT -5
Coughin was a massive failure at Jax. I get where Ramsey is coming from. Didn't they go to the AFC Championship game in his first year? Weren't they in last place the year before? A lot teams would sign up for that failure. Hell, hasn't been like 24 years since the Cowboys made it to the NFC Championship game?
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 19, 2021 19:35:46 GMT -5
Coughin was a massive failure at Jax. I get where Ramsey is coming from. Didn't they go to the AFC Championship game in his first year? Weren't they in last place the year before? A lot teams would sign up for that failure. Hell, hasn't been like 24 years since the Cowboys made it to the NFC Championship game? Then what?
By your logic we should never have fired McAdoo.
Didn't he lead us to the playoffs his first year after 3 losing seasons?
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Post by Zimonami on Jul 19, 2021 19:52:43 GMT -5
I guess Tom ain't for everybody but he did win with both NFL teams he coached and Boston College as well. Maybe they should of at least tried a bit longer. Sometimes it's just a bad fit, nobody's fault. Don't know how many of those players were Tom's picks. Until he changed his approach with the Giants he wasn't liked by hardly any players. I don't care how times have changed and players and people in general are changing and feeling that friendly is nicer than strict. I don't care about any other sport... the needs are different, but I don't believe you can win it all in football with a head coach who is super friendly with his players and doesn't criticize them. Having said that, TC was way overboard strict before '07. You probably know that his wife had a hand in changing his attitude towards the guys before that year. Remember, he suddenly says... hey, we're going bowling this afternoon. Which doesn't mean he still wasn't demanding and strict... but, Tom kept it on the field, and lightened up when they were off the field. Tiki quit one year too early. If Tom became friendlier before '06, instead of '07, maybe Tiki thinks twice about calling it quits. He had 2 more good years in him.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 19, 2021 20:01:22 GMT -5
At least you finally admit Tom was a great coach.
Tom was a great coach for us all the way up to 2012. The rails totally came off in 2013. So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 19, 2021 20:13:51 GMT -5
Tom was a great coach for us all the way up to 2012. The rails totally came off in 2013. So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. Agreed. Tom fell on the sword when it was clear the teams ineptness was in part to our GM. To add insult to injury, the following season after Coughlins “resignation” the Giants went on a spending spree. To the tune of $200 million dollars. When in fact, years prior the Giants had to sign free agents with loose change they found in between the couch cushions.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 19, 2021 20:21:14 GMT -5
Have we resolved yet that TC is not a douche bag? He is a terrific human being, flawed at times like most of us, prone to push the envelope on the CBA but a great person. Did anyone see his comments on Jared Lorenzen? The kid had real struggles and TC was right there having his back. Parcells reveled in humiliating marginal players to make his point. I never recall anything like that from TC. Perhaps "douche bag" was a tad strong.
Let's just say he's petty and small at times.
Yes, I wouldn't disagree with that at all. I am just saying that he and Parcells are from a different litter in my opinion. BP is a loathsome scum bag on most levels. TC is a genuine human being on most levels (at least away from the game). And btw, if I had one game to win with a gun to my head, I would have BP as my HC with BB as the DC...........FWIW
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 19, 2021 20:29:47 GMT -5
Tom was a great coach for us all the way up to 2012. The rails totally came off in 2013. So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. I really can't stand that expression.
Did Andy Reid forget how to coach when his team went 4-12 in 2012 and completely mailed it in week 17. Did he then remember how to coach again when he went to KC?
How about McAdoo. Did he forget how to coach when we flopped after we went 11-5 in 2016?
What Tom did was lose the team after 2012. Tom got stale and so did the team. The league is constantly changing and Tom doesn't.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 19, 2021 20:36:00 GMT -5
So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. Agreed. Tom fell on the sword when it was clear the teams ineptness was in part to our GM. To add insult to injury, the following season after Coughlins “resignation” the Giants went on a spending spree. To the tune of $200 million dollars. When in fact, years prior the Giants had to sign free agents with loose change they found in between the couch cushions. Tom didn't "fall on his sword." He showed everyone how he felt when he dissed John Mara in that final presser. I get kids these days might not like his type, but they actually need his type. Just MO.
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Post by nick030567 on Jul 19, 2021 20:57:57 GMT -5
Tom was a great coach for us all the way up to 2012. The rails totally came off in 2013. So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. The downfall of the trenches has a direct correlation with the downfall of both the Coughlin and Eli era. Tom had his faults though. He was stubborn and terrible with both mid-game and mid-season adjustments most years
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 19, 2021 21:19:29 GMT -5
So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. The downfall of the trenches has a direct correlation with the downfall of both the Coughlin and Eli era. Tom had his faults though. He was stubborn and terrible with both mid-game and mid-season adjustments most years Everyone has faults. Bottom line is Coughin made every team he coached more successful.
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Post by Roswell on Jul 19, 2021 21:30:30 GMT -5
What should he have done? Bake him a cake? Dodges sole job was to punt it away from Jackson. What did he do? He punted it right to him. Short memory around here. Dodge was awful all season that year. That was just the straw that broke the camels back..
I'm not saying he shouldn't have been livid, but I don't think he should have shown up his rookie punter in front of a TV audience.
Dodge was one of if not the weakest links on that team, and we all know whose decision it was to put him there.
Dodge didn’t lose that game. He made a bad punt. That game shouldn’t have come down to a Matt Dodge punt. The Giants, as a team, choked. And Coughlin scapegoated the kid on TV like the whole game was his fault.
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Post by SG88 on Jul 19, 2021 21:49:36 GMT -5
Tom was a great coach for us all the way up to 2012. The rails totally came off in 2013. So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. I will say that he lost a lot of zip from his fastball. The poor clock management in that game against the Jets in 2015 (not the only issue of clock management. How about the inability to pull out a challenge flag from his sock against the Colts? There just seemed to be several instances from 2013 till the end of his time here. How about the lack of in game adjustments from 2013 on? I'm going to stick to my opinion of his decline from 2013 going forward. Disagreeing with it is fine. Of course it isn't all on him. I was just staying on topic.
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Post by SG88 on Jul 19, 2021 21:53:31 GMT -5
So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. I really can't stand that expression.
Did Andy Reid forget how to coach when his team went 4-12 in 2012 and completely mailed it in week 17. Did he then remember how to coach again when he went to KC?
How about McAdoo. Did he forget how to coach when we flopped after we went 11-5 in 2016?
What Tom did was lose the team after 2012. Tom got stale and so did the team. The league is constantly changing and Tom doesn't.
Lack of evolution was one of Tom's biggest flaws. Andy Reid evolved with the times and Tom did not. Tom was an excellent head coach that became dated. It happens to the best of them.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 19, 2021 22:12:10 GMT -5
Tom was a great coach for us all the way up to 2012. The rails totally came off in 2013. So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up.
Things didn't go bad in 2013. Things went bad in 2012. After a fantastic 6-2 start, the Giants went 3-5.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 19, 2021 22:17:35 GMT -5
So what happened? He forgot how to coach in 2013? IMO what happened in 2013 was the GMs failure to keep up with drafting for the ol. After that they sacrificed the OC, and finally the HC to keep the GM who blew it up. I will say that he lost a lot of zip from his fastball. The poor clock management in that game against the Jets in 2015 (not the only issue of clock management. How about the inability to pull out a challenge flag from his sock against the Colts? There just seemed to be several instances from 2013 till the end of his time here. How about the lack of in game adjustments from 2013 on? I'm going to stick to my opinion of his decline from 2013 going forward. Disagreeing with it is fine. Of course it isn't all on him. I was just staying on topic. That's fair. I don't think any HC is perfect. But I do think TC was failed by the organization. We can agree to disagree on it.
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Post by SG88 on Jul 19, 2021 22:21:56 GMT -5
I will say that he lost a lot of zip from his fastball. The poor clock management in that game against the Jets in 2015 (not the only issue of clock management. How about the inability to pull out a challenge flag from his sock against the Colts? There just seemed to be several instances from 2013 till the end of his time here. How about the lack of in game adjustments from 2013 on? I'm going to stick to my opinion of his decline from 2013 going forward. Disagreeing with it is fine. Of course it isn't all on him. I was just staying on topic. That's fair. I don't think any HC is perfect. But I do think TC was failed by the organization. We can agree to disagree on it. I agree that they didn't do any favors for him. I am sure that he felt scapegoated when he was pretty much the only person shown the door at the time. I still think that the Giants should have totally cleaned house when they let him go. IMO that is why he left Mara hanging at that presser. I would have left him hanging too if I were Tom.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 19, 2021 22:43:08 GMT -5
That's fair. I don't think any HC is perfect. But I do think TC was failed by the organization. We can agree to disagree on it. I agree that they didn't do any favors for him. I am sure that he felt scapegoated when he was pretty much the only person shown the door at the time. I still think that the Giants should have totally cleaned house when they let him go. IMO that is why he left Mara hanging at that presser. I would have left him hanging too if I were Tom. Yeah. But first they scapegoated gilbride, who's offense couldn't be run with a horrible OL. IMO, that was the beginning of the end of an era.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 19, 2021 23:15:06 GMT -5
That's fair. I don't think any HC is perfect. But I do think TC was failed by the organization. We can agree to disagree on it. I agree that they didn't do any favors for him. I am sure that he felt scapegoated when he was pretty much the only person shown the door at the time. I still think that the Giants should have totally cleaned house when they let him go. IMO that is why he left Mara hanging at that presser. I would have left him hanging too if I were Tom. We remember "Teflon Ton" G. It was never his fault. It was always someone else's.
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