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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 12, 2021 21:10:58 GMT -5
Patriots are playing their Jones tonight. And Cam Newton. The Skins are playing Fitzpatrick tonight a bit. Eagles played Hurts. I'm OK with them playing DJ a few series in game 1. Belichick has never had any issues playing his starters anywhere, anytime. The Giants can't afford any more injuries at this point. They had two more offensive linemen injured last night. They would forfeit this game if they could. Yes. They should forfeit all the preseason games out of fear of injuries. Then they will come out peaking week 1. I don't buy it. The players need team chemistry. Jones needs it. The more he plays the better. If he is going to get injured he is going to get injured, preseason, week 1, week 5 whatever. They used to sit the starters for game 4 because it was like a bye week before week 1 for them. Rest up and nagging injuries. Resting them week 1 but playing them week 3 of the preseason this year is strange. You would think you should rest them week 3 if that's the strategy.
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Post by McCherry on Aug 12, 2021 21:32:11 GMT -5
Belichick has never had any issues playing his starters anywhere, anytime. The Giants can't afford any more injuries at this point. They had two more offensive linemen injured last night. They would forfeit this game if they could. Yes. They should forfeit all the preseason games out of fear of injuries. Then they will come out peaking week 1. I don't buy it. The players need team chemistry. Jones needs it. The more he plays the better. If he is going to get injured he is going to get injured, preseason, week 1, week 5 whatever. They used to sit the starters for game 4 because it was like a bye week before week 1 for them. Rest up and nagging injuries. Resting them week 1 but playing them week 3 of the preseason this year is strange. You would think you should rest them week 3 if that's the strategy. Last season boasted record offensive numbers and record lows in penalties, without any preseason games. Chemistry, conditioning, scheming and all that stuff is built in camp. If it doesn't happen in practice, it doesn't happen.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 12, 2021 21:48:09 GMT -5
Yes. They should forfeit all the preseason games out of fear of injuries. Then they will come out peaking week 1. I don't buy it. The players need team chemistry. Jones needs it. The more he plays the better. If he is going to get injured he is going to get injured, preseason, week 1, week 5 whatever. They used to sit the starters for game 4 because it was like a bye week before week 1 for them. Rest up and nagging injuries. Resting them week 1 but playing them week 3 of the preseason this year is strange. You would think you should rest them week 3 if that's the strategy. Last season boasted record offensive numbers and record lows in penalties, without any preseason games. Chemistry, conditioning, scheming and all that stuff is built in camp. If it doesn't happen in practice, it doesn't happen. Last year boasted one of the worst offenses in Giants history (I assume) and the QB has new players, not to mention how bad the O line and Jones were. If anyone should be playing their starters it’s the Giants and Jets.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Aug 13, 2021 0:23:59 GMT -5
Should put the starters in one or two series at least. The last preseason game is pretty late to see wh a t you have, and what you need to change
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 13, 2021 5:47:13 GMT -5
There’s 3 pre season games this year, we had one of the worst offenses in the league with one of the worst O lines last year along with a QB who threw 11 whopping TD’s and 10 INT’s plus a handful of new “weapons”. Basically the entire offense are rookies or young, I think that point is now. To be fair other than last year they played plenty of pre season games and it didn't help. Why not let the HC make the decisions that he thinks is best for his team and then judge that decision based on the results? It's perfectly fine to disagree with the decision but acting like there could not possibly be a benefit to not playing the starters is a bit pretentious. I can see benefits both ways, so we will see how we look.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 13, 2021 5:48:16 GMT -5
Patriots are playing their Jones tonight. And Cam Newton. The Skins are playing Fitzpatrick tonight a bit. Eagles played Hurts. I'm OK with them playing DJ a few series in game 1. Lets revisit this threat after the season and see how the four teams stack up and no matter what else goes on we can blame/give credit to the decision made in preseason game 1.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 13, 2021 5:54:52 GMT -5
Patriots are playing their Jones tonight. And Cam Newton. The Skins are playing Fitzpatrick tonight a bit. Eagles played Hurts. I'm OK with them playing DJ a few series in game 1. Lets revisit this threat after the season and see how the four teams stack up and no matter what else goes on we can blame/give credit to the decision made in preseason game 1. I didn't make any threats... I'm shocked some would rather him sit. Now if he had to sit a game, they should sit him in the 3rd preseason game no? For the same reason they normally sit them in the 4th preseason game? Rest for week 1.
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 13, 2021 6:05:31 GMT -5
Lets revisit this threat after the season and see how the four teams stack up and no matter what else goes on we can blame/give credit to the decision made in preseason game 1. I didn't make any threats... I'm shocked some would rather him sit. Now if he had to sit a game, they should sit him in the 3rd preseason game no? For the same reason they normally sit them in the 4th preseason game? Rest for week 1. Looks like Judge is doing it the opposite way - the starters get increasing reps in the preseason games rather than decreasing. So the reps that he would ordinarily get in preseason game 1, he will get in preseason game 3. Is this the right way to do it? I don’t know … but I do like that Judge thinks on his own and doesn’t just do things because “that’s the way it’s always been done.” If he was planning to play only the backup OL and WR’s, it doesn’t make sense to have Jones in there.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 13, 2021 7:00:45 GMT -5
I didn't make any threats... I'm shocked some would rather him sit. Now if he had to sit a game, they should sit him in the 3rd preseason game no? For the same reason they normally sit them in the 4th preseason game? Rest for week 1. Looks like Judge is doing it the opposite way - the starters get increasing reps in the preseason games rather than decreasing. So the reps that he would ordinarily get in preseason game 1, he will get in preseason game 3. Is this the right way to do it? I don’t know … but I do like that Judge thinks on his own and doesn’t just do things because “that’s the way it’s always been done.” If he was planning to play only the backup OL and WR’s, it doesn’t make sense to have Jones in there. exactly.....and Jones and the starters were not going to play in all three games so why does it matter which games they play in? From Jones' perspective he probably cant wait to get out there. He's probably chomping at the bit
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 13, 2021 7:12:03 GMT -5
Looks like Judge is doing it the opposite way - the starters get increasing reps in the preseason games rather than decreasing. So the reps that he would ordinarily get in preseason game 1, he will get in preseason game 3. Is this the right way to do it? I don’t know … but I do like that Judge thinks on his own and doesn’t just do things because “that’s the way it’s always been done.” If he was planning to play only the backup OL and WR’s, it doesn’t make sense to have Jones in there. exactly.....and Jones and the starters were not going to play in all three games so why does it matter which games they play in? From Jones' perspective he probably cant wait to get out there. He's probably chomping at the bit It does make some sense to work the starters up through game 3 of the preseason so that they are sharp for game 1 of the season. Hope it works ….
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Post by GameTime on Aug 13, 2021 7:14:35 GMT -5
exactly.....and Jones and the starters were not going to play in all three games so why does it matter which games they play in? From Jones' perspective he probably cant wait to get out there. He's probably chomping at the bit It does make some sense to work the starters up through game 3 of the preseason so that they are sharp for game 1 of the season. Hope it works …. Not really sure what works in preseason as far as getting the starters ready. We've seen 4-0 preseasons and poor seasons and 0-4 preseason with good seasons. For me preseason is mostly about the forming the roster. More for that then the starters.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 13, 2021 7:19:09 GMT -5
This could be a reflection on the dismal state of our OL. Just trying to keep Jones upright until the coaches and GM can reload and recast the OL. Our defense has been pouring through the OL early in camp. One more reason for me to worry.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 13, 2021 7:30:21 GMT -5
This could be a reflection on the dismal state of our OL. Just trying to keep Jones upright until the coaches and GM can reload and recast the OL. Our defense has been pouring through the OL early in camp. One more reason for me to worry. maybe....I kind of remember Judge talking about the roster cut down schedule and the three game schedule in regards to changing how they handle who plays when. This was a couple of weeks ago at the start of camp.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 13, 2021 7:36:56 GMT -5
There’s 3 pre season games this year, we had one of the worst offenses in the league with one of the worst O lines last year along with a QB who threw 11 whopping TD’s and 10 INT’s plus a handful of new “weapons”. Basically the entire offense are rookies or young, I think that point is now. To be fair other than last year they played plenty of pre season games and it didn't help. Why not let the HC make the decisions that he thinks is best for his team and then judge that decision based on the results? It's perfectly fine to disagree with the decision but acting like there could not possibly be a benefit to not playing the starters is a bit pretentious. I can see benefits both ways, so we will see how we look. Other than risking injury which is part of the game I see no benefit in not taking meaningful snaps in pre season. In most lines of work, you train to get better, especially if you’re not good so when the real thing happens you are prepared. I’m quite sure in my line of work, my co workers and the people I serve wouldn’t be thrilled if I screwed up badly in a certain situation and told them we don’t like to train because we don’t want to risk injury and we want to see what the new guys can do. And you can’t just say because playing pre season games in the past didn’t help because we don’t know how much worse they would have been. I can confidently say that any training, especially against other teams, can’t hurt and can only help. I get wanting to play the scrubs to see what you have but they could at least split it 50/50 because some of our starters are scrubs or they wouldn’t have been one of the worst in the league. We’re not TB that is a roster loaded with vets who just won the Super Bowl and have most of the same returning starters. We’re a piss poor team with question marks all over the roster, especially offense, and have a bunch of guys playing together for the first time.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 13, 2021 7:44:34 GMT -5
It does make some sense to work the starters up through game 3 of the preseason so that they are sharp for game 1 of the season. Hope it works …. Not really sure what works in preseason as far as getting the starters ready. We've seen 4-0 preseasons and poor seasons and 0-4 preseason with good seasons. For me preseason is mostly about the forming the roster. More for that then the starters. When was the last time we had the worst combined record in the league over the past 3 years and had one of the worst offenses in the league? IIRC, those games where a lot of our starters didn’t play a lot in pre season was because they were vets who many of them played together already. This offense is a hot mess and so is our QB (as of now) so they should get at least half the playing time IMO. This offense is going to get knocked in the face by a veteran Broncos defense if they roll out there only having played one half of a pre season game together.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 13, 2021 7:51:31 GMT -5
Not really sure what works in preseason as far as getting the starters ready. We've seen 4-0 preseasons and poor seasons and 0-4 preseason with good seasons. For me preseason is mostly about the forming the roster. More for that then the starters. When was the last time we had the worst combined record in the league over the past 3 years and had one of the worst offenses in the league? IIRC, those games where a lot of our starters didn’t play a lot in pre season was because they were vets who many of them played together already. This offense is a hot mess and so is our QB (as of now) so they should get at least half the playing time IMO. This offense is going to get knocked in the face by a veteran Broncos defense if they roll out there only having played one half of a pre season game together. 3 games is 12 quarters. How much do you want the starters to play? Many starters will most likely get 3 to 5 quarters of play. Maybe more. Jones will probably get 3 or 4. Just my guess.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 13, 2021 8:18:10 GMT -5
I didn't make any threats... I'm shocked some would rather him sit. Now if he had to sit a game, they should sit him in the 3rd preseason game no? For the same reason they normally sit them in the 4th preseason game? Rest for week 1. Looks like Judge is doing it the opposite way - the starters get increasing reps in the preseason games rather than decreasing. So the reps that he would ordinarily get in preseason game 1, he will get in preseason game 3. Is this the right way to do it? I don’t know … but I do like that Judge thinks on his own and doesn’t just do things because “that’s the way it’s always been done.” If he was planning to play only the backup OL and WR’s, it doesn’t make sense to have Jones in there. I agree with you that "I dont know" if it will truly effect anything. I just always thought they gave them that game 4 preseason off for the rest factor (and final cuts). It will be interesting to see how this works out, but if Jones or some starter gets dinged up in that 3rd preseason game and needs a few weeks to recover, it will be a story.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Aug 13, 2021 9:11:58 GMT -5
I am just taking Judge at his word that he wanted to treat this like game 4 all along due to cuts coming after this. It is new and different, I am guess teams will learn this year and adjust next on how to treat a 3 game pre-season.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 13, 2021 10:31:44 GMT -5
When was the last time we had the worst combined record in the league over the past 3 years and had one of the worst offenses in the league? IIRC, those games where a lot of our starters didn’t play a lot in pre season was because they were vets who many of them played together already. This offense is a hot mess and so is our QB (as of now) so they should get at least half the playing time IMO. This offense is going to get knocked in the face by a veteran Broncos defense if they roll out there only having played one half of a pre season game together. 3 games is 12 quarters. How much do you want the starters to play? Many starters will most likely get 3 to 5 quarters of play. Maybe more. Jones will probably get 3 or 4. Just my guess. At the rate this offense has been and under the current circumstances, I’d like to see them play at least the first quarter of the first game, preferably 2 quarters, the first half of the second game and the first quarter of the 3rd game, maybe even the first half of the 3rd game depending on how they look.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 13, 2021 11:42:14 GMT -5
Other than risking injury which is part of the game I see no benefit in not taking meaningful snaps in pre season. In most lines of work, you train to get better, especially if you’re not good so when the real thing happens you are prepared. I’m quite sure in my line of work, my co workers and the people I serve wouldn’t be thrilled if I screwed up badly in a certain situation and told them we don’t like to train because we don’t want to risk injury and we want to see what the new guys can do. And you can’t just say because playing pre season games in the past didn’t help because we don’t know how much worse they would have been. I can confidently say that any training, especially against other teams, can’t hurt and can only help. I get wanting to play the scrubs to see what you have but they could at least split it 50/50 because some of our starters are scrubs or they wouldn’t have been one of the worst in the league. We’re not TB that is a roster loaded with vets who just won the Super Bowl and have most of the same returning starters. We’re a piss poor team with question marks all over the roster, especially offense, and have a bunch of guys playing together for the first time. Yes I agree, however there are more factors in play other than "Jones was bad, we need him better". Jones was also injured. If the only thing we are considering is improving our starters then they should play 100% of the snaps, I think we agree that's a bad plan. So if we agree playing all the snaps is bad and other things are factored in why are we crucifying the coach for making a decision he deems is best?
If it doesn't work out then by all means we can crucify him but it's not simply "play Jones = win more". Your way is not a guarantee of success anymore than his is. Personally I'd be more concerned with the OL not getting reps in than Jones. That could just be me.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 13, 2021 12:49:07 GMT -5
Other than risking injury which is part of the game I see no benefit in not taking meaningful snaps in pre season. In most lines of work, you train to get better, especially if you’re not good so when the real thing happens you are prepared. I’m quite sure in my line of work, my co workers and the people I serve wouldn’t be thrilled if I screwed up badly in a certain situation and told them we don’t like to train because we don’t want to risk injury and we want to see what the new guys can do. And you can’t just say because playing pre season games in the past didn’t help because we don’t know how much worse they would have been. I can confidently say that any training, especially against other teams, can’t hurt and can only help. I get wanting to play the scrubs to see what you have but they could at least split it 50/50 because some of our starters are scrubs or they wouldn’t have been one of the worst in the league. We’re not TB that is a roster loaded with vets who just won the Super Bowl and have most of the same returning starters. We’re a piss poor team with question marks all over the roster, especially offense, and have a bunch of guys playing together for the first time. Yes I agree, however there are more factors in play other than "Jones was bad, we need him better". Jones was also injured. If the only thing we are considering is improving our starters then they should play 100% of the snaps, I think we agree that's a bad plan. So if we agree playing all the snaps is bad and other things are factored in why are we crucifying the coach for making a decision he deems is best?
If it doesn't work last out then by all means we can crucify him but it's not simply "play Jones = win more". Your way is not a guarantee of success anymore than his is. Personally I'd be more concerned with the OL not getting reps in than Jones. That could just be me.
Do you agree that some play time is better than nothing? Of course I think they would get better playing 100% of the snaps compared to 50%, just as I think playing one or two quarters is better than playing none. When you have a new and young group of players that played on the worse offense in the league last year then I think its highly irresponsible and just dumb to not give them a decent amount of reps for at least a quarter or two every game. My way isn’t a guarantee of success but it increases the chances, especially with this group. Again, if these were a bunch of seasoned vets who played together last year and did a good job then I would understand but it’s not, it’s the complete opposite. And yes, I’m slightly more concerned with the O line getting more reps than Jones but not by much and they need to work together. If the O line is still bad then Jones needs to get used to understanding how much time he has to throw and work on his pocket awareness. The O line needs to get used to audibles, his snap count, etc. Jones and the O line go hand in hand.
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Aug 13, 2021 13:41:25 GMT -5
This could be a reflection on the dismal state of our OL. Just trying to keep Jones upright until the coaches and GM can reload and recast the OL. Our defense has been pouring through the OL early in camp. One more reason for me to worry. This could be, but you also need to get Jones in for some in-game action. I'd much rather have him make mistakes and get all that rust out in preseason than the regular season. I'm hoping that he gets some reps in our other two preseason games. It'll be good for the entire team, if his connection with Golladay is already clicking before week 1 of the regular season.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 13, 2021 13:55:06 GMT -5
This could be a reflection on the dismal state of our OL. Just trying to keep Jones upright until the coaches and GM can reload and recast the OL. Our defense has been pouring through the OL early in camp. One more reason for me to worry. This could be, but you also need to get Jones in for some in-game action. I'd much rather have him make mistakes and get all that rust out in preseason than the regular season. I'm hoping that he gets some reps in our other two preseason games. It'll be good for the entire team, if his connection with Golladay is already clicking before week 1 of the regular season. Jones had a major let down season in 2020 and put up numbers less than a game manager. Hell, game managers put up double the amount of TD's than Jones did in 2020. If the reason for sitting Jones is the Oline, I get it. Almost any other reason for Jones not suiting up is BAD. Jones should be practicing an hour before practice, and hour after and have homework. It's mind boggling that some posters on here are cool with this when Jones has to probably take like 2 big steps forward to even be considered a starting QB in 2022. The Giants entire season and the next 2 after that hinge on Jones succeeding but hey, it's cool, let him sit when the entire offense is a shit show....
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 13, 2021 14:02:13 GMT -5
This could be, but you also need to get Jones in for some in-game action. I'd much rather have him make mistakes and get all that rust out in preseason than the regular season. I'm hoping that he gets some reps in our other two preseason games. It'll be good for the entire team, if his connection with Golladay is already clicking before week 1 of the regular season. Jones had a major let down season in 2020 and put up numbers less than a game manager. Hell, game managers put up double the amount of TD's than Jones did in 2020. If the reason for sitting Jones is the Oline, I get it. Almost any other reason for Jones not suiting up is BAD. Jones should be practicing an hour before practice, and hour after and have homework. It's mind boggling that some posters on here are cool with this when Jones has to probably take like 2 big steps forward to even be considered a starting QB in 2022... Call it for what it is. He put up ball boy numbers. And to the fans who are cool with Jones getting the night off. Rewatch last seasons performance from Mr. Wonderful. He went seven games without throwing a touchdown. Let me repeat that, seven games in a league where the rules are giving you a touchdown at the coin toss, he couldn’t muster one. That’s pathetic.. He needs all the work he can get, and then some.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 13, 2021 14:17:49 GMT -5
Do you agree that some play time is better than nothing? Of course I think they would get better playing 100% of the snaps compared to 50%, just as I think playing one or two quarters is better than playing none. When you have a new and young group of players that played on the worse offense in the league last year then I think its highly irresponsible and just dumb to not give them a decent amount of reps for at least a quarter or two every game. My way isn’t a guarantee of success but it increases the chances, especially with this group. Again, if these were a bunch of seasoned vets who played together last year and did a good job then I would understand but it’s not, it’s the complete opposite. And yes, I’m slightly more concerned with the O line getting more reps than Jones but not by much and they need to work together. If the O line is still bad then Jones needs to get used to understanding how much time he has to throw and work on his pocket awareness. The O line needs to get used to audibles, his snap count, etc. Jones and the O line go hand in hand. Yes of course some play time is better than nothing. So we both agree playing all the snaps is a bad plan and playing some snaps is a good plan. I do not think he needs to play some snaps in each game though. If they are going to be on a snap count during the preseason then I can see a definite benefit to getting more work in during a single game. In game adjustments, fatigue ect.
If Judge was telling us Jones is not going to play any snaps this preseason I would be puzzled for sure. A QB not playing snaps in a single game is nothing new at all. Sure it's a bit different to not play them the first game instead of the last game but maybe just maybe he has a method to his madness. Our last two coaches played these guys plenty in the first game and that never worked out. I'm not opposed to trying something new is all.
He is not the only one either. The Chargers aren't playing Herbert at all this preseason, some other teams are sitting their starter this week and playing them in other games (according Ryan Dunleavy).
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Aug 13, 2021 14:20:29 GMT -5
Jones had a major let down season in 2020 and put up numbers less than a game manager. Hell, game managers put up double the amount of TD's than Jones did in 2020. If the reason for sitting Jones is the Oline, I get it. Almost any other reason for Jones not suiting up is BAD. Jones should be practicing an hour before practice, and hour after and have homework. It's mind boggling that some posters on here are cool with this when Jones has to probably take like 2 big steps forward to even be considered a starting QB in 2022... Call it for what it is. He put up ball boy numbers. And to the fans who are cool with Jones getting the night off. Rewatch last seasons performance from Mr. Wonderful. He went seven games without throwing a touchdown. Let me repeat that, seven games in a league where the rules are giving you a touchdown at the coin toss, he couldn’t muster one. That’s pathetic.. He needs all the work he can get, and then some. Yes, but we all know what the response will be in 4 of those 7 games he didn't throw an interception, so him not turning the ball over negates him not throwing a touchdown in those games. Newton's third law. lol.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 13, 2021 14:24:26 GMT -5
Call it for what it is. He put up ball boy numbers. And to the fans who are cool with Jones getting the night off. Rewatch last seasons performance from Mr. Wonderful. He went seven games without throwing a touchdown. Let me repeat that, seven games in a league where the rules are giving you a touchdown at the coin toss, he couldn’t muster one. That’s pathetic.. He needs all the work he can get, and then some. Maybe you should rewatch those games and pay a little attention to his OLs pass blocking and especially to his WRs and TE. If he was simply as bad as you say then no preseason games would matter because he should have been cut and that Ohio State kid should be our QB not playing in Chicago.
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 13, 2021 14:31:04 GMT -5
Call it for what it is. He put up ball boy numbers. And to the fans who are cool with Jones getting the night off. Rewatch last seasons performance from Mr. Wonderful. He went seven games without throwing a touchdown. Let me repeat that, seven games in a league where the rules are giving you a touchdown at the coin toss, he couldn’t muster one. That’s pathetic.. He needs all the work he can get, and then some. Yes, but we all know what the response will be in 4 of those 7 games he didn't throw an interception, so him not turning the ball over negates him not throwing a touchdown in those games. Newton's third law. lol. When Jones formulates the laws of motion. Then, we’ll ease up on him. Until then, play better Lloyd Christmas..
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Post by bluebuddha on Aug 13, 2021 14:33:29 GMT -5
Yes, but we all know what the response will be in 4 of those 7 games he didn't throw an interception, so him not turning the ball over negates him not throwing a touchdown in those games. Newton's third law. lol. When Jones formulates the laws of motion. Then, we’ll ease up on him. Until then, play better Lloyd Christmas..That was cold.
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 13, 2021 14:35:16 GMT -5
Call it for what it is. He put up ball boy numbers. And to the fans who are cool with Jones getting the night off. Rewatch last seasons performance from Mr. Wonderful. He went seven games without throwing a touchdown. Let me repeat that, seven games in a league where the rules are giving you a touchdown at the coin toss, he couldn’t muster one. That’s pathetic.. He needs all the work he can get, and then some. Maybe you should rewatch those games and pay a little attention to his OLs pass blocking and especially to his WRs and TE. If he was simply as bad as you say then no preseason games would matter because he should have been cut and that Ohio State kid should be our QB not playing in Chicago.
Why would I rewatch them? I’m not a fan of watching a homicide take place. Oh, the classic it’s everyone else’s fault routine. That never gets old, let’s just blame the line, the receivers, the sun while you’re at it. He was part of that disaster, not a victim of circumstances. And he was that bad, hence why the Giants whole offseason was to help him. Emphasize the word “help.”
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