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Post by jaymas on Sept 13, 2021 8:23:03 GMT -5
While I've never really been a believer in Jones, after really thinking about it, I think that Garrett is the biggest reason for his decline. Fumbles aside, look how much better DJ looked under Shurmur. It's not even close. Look how it appears he has regressed under the clapper. It's not like the talent level 2 years ago was that much better than now. Look how wide open Denver's receivers were yesterday, over and over. Look how tight the coverage was on our receivers, maybe except for SS. That isn't a talent disparity , that is 100% scheme to me. I try not to be a knee jerk reaction, hot take guy, but I really believe this is the biggest thing holding Jones back. I think he had time to throw for the most part yesterday to be honest. He was not under that much pressure. Guys were just not open and the routes were poor, hardly any deep balls at all. Routes run short of the sticks on 3rd down. Very little motion. I think when this is flushed out, we will see that the biggest issue is Garrett. Garrett can't fix locking onto 1 receiver, throwing into double coverage, limited pocket awareness, and fumbling. Certainly Garrett can call a better game, no denying that one, but Jones isn't good. He's showing it every year, he just isn't a quality starting NFL QB. Well he had one of the better rookie years in NFL history. So either it was a complete mirage, or his development has been completely stopped/stalled out. It's tough to not look at coaching when a guy flashes as much as Jones did two years ago.
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Post by SG88 on Sept 13, 2021 8:27:38 GMT -5
This should be an interesting week lol Fire Gettlemen Fire Judge Fire Garrett Jones Sucks Saquan Sucks The O line Sucks ....................the next week of mindless threads. Oh and F#$% the Maras ,.................did I miss anything? So what you're saying is that it will be a normal week, right?
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Post by OrangeGiant on Sept 13, 2021 8:31:00 GMT -5
Garrett can't fix locking onto 1 receiver, throwing into double coverage, limited pocket awareness, and fumbling. Certainly Garrett can call a better game, no denying that one, but Jones isn't good. He's showing it every year, he just isn't a quality starting NFL QB. Well he had one of the better rookie years in NFL history. So either it was a complete mirage, or his development has been completely stopped/stalled out. It's tough to not look at coaching when a guy flashes as much as Jones did two years ago. 4 games of 300+ yards, 4TD's and no picks. He was a different player, with really no better talent around him. Again, I'm really not a believer in him, but I'm also no expert either. Nobody on here is, as much as they might think they are. There is a reason for the drop off...and I am pretty sure I know at least one reason why.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Sept 13, 2021 8:32:45 GMT -5
Well he had one of the better rookie years in NFL history. So either it was a complete mirage, or his development has been completely stopped/stalled out. It's tough to not look at coaching when a guy flashes as much as Jones did two years ago. 4 games of 300+ yards, 4TD's and no picks. He was a different player, with really no better talent around him. Again, I'm really not a believer in him, but I'm also no expert either. Nobody on here is, as much as they might think they are. There is a reason for the drop off...and I am pretty sure I know at least one reason why. It could just be the league figured him out... fivethirtyeight.com/features/daniel-jones-hasnt-figured-out-zone-coverage-yet/
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Post by nick030567 on Sept 13, 2021 8:34:42 GMT -5
Well he had one of the better rookie years in NFL history. So either it was a complete mirage, or his development has been completely stopped/stalled out. It's tough to not look at coaching when a guy flashes as much as Jones did two years ago. 4 games of 300+ yards, 4TD's and no picks. He was a different player, with really no better talent around him. Again, I'm really not a believer in him, but I'm also no expert either. Nobody on here is, as much as they might think they are. There is a reason for the drop off...and I am pretty sure I know at least one reason why. I'd have to say between the OL, the TEs and Golladay, they have MUCH MUCH better talent than in 2019 lol. Not to mention the other receivers all look better than 2019 as well
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Post by SG88 on Sept 13, 2021 8:37:21 GMT -5
4 games of 300+ yards, 4TD's and no picks. He was a different player, with really no better talent around him. Again, I'm really not a believer in him, but I'm also no expert either. Nobody on here is, as much as they might think they are. There is a reason for the drop off...and I am pretty sure I know at least one reason why. It could just be the league figured him out... fivethirtyeight.com/features/daniel-jones-hasnt-figured-out-zone-coverage-yet/I think that it is both. The coaching hasn't been good from Garrett and Jones hasn't adjusted to teams figuring him out. You're both right IMO.
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Post by fifthavephil on Sept 13, 2021 8:46:10 GMT -5
I think that it is both. The coaching hasn't been good from Garrett and Jones hasn't adjusted to teams figuring him out. You're both right IMO.h Reason, Giants drafted Jones, because he was coach by ( Duke / Ole Miss. ) Cutcliffe. Giants , believed Jones would be NFL ready, with minimum on the job training.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Sept 13, 2021 9:02:08 GMT -5
We have been the worst team in the NFL since 2017. The worst. Not one of the worst. Not very bad. We have been THE WORST. Since 2017. Daniel Jones leads the league in turnovers since he was drafted. Thats our QB. Not bad. Not near the bottom. At the bottom. THE WORST in turning the ball over. Its more than just 0-1. We looked much worse in this game than we did at the end of last year.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2021 9:07:34 GMT -5
LOL, those are tough words from HOF inductee Rodger Sherman!
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Post by SG88 on Sept 13, 2021 9:10:12 GMT -5
We have been the worst team in the NFL since 2017. The worst. Not one of the worst. Not very bad. We have been THE WORST. Since 2017. Daniel Jones leads the league in turnovers since he was drafted. Thats our QB. Not bad. Not near the bottom. At the bottom. THE WORST in turning the ball over. Its more than just 0-1. We looked much worse in this game than we did at the end of last year. I'm with you on this. Yeah, it is only the first game. However, the Giants haven't had a winning record at any point in time since 2016. That's years of a body of pathetic work.
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Post by jaymas on Sept 13, 2021 9:10:53 GMT -5
We have been the worst team in the NFL since 2017. The worst. Not one of the worst. Not very bad. We have been THE WORST. Since 2017. Daniel Jones leads the league in turnovers since he was drafted. Thats our QB. Not bad. Not near the bottom. At the bottom. THE WORST in turning the ball over. Its more than just 0-1. We looked much worse in this game than we did at the end of last year. Tough to disagree with. When you're this bad for this long, everything is magnified.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 13, 2021 9:20:41 GMT -5
Daniel Jones isn't awful. He's just limited. He locks onto receivers and he has poor pocket awareness.
But he can make plays too. Honestly....he's a high level back up in this league to me at this point.
That isn't "awful". But it isn't good either. At this point, he's just who he is and we need to accept it.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2021 9:29:33 GMT -5
\ LOL, of course you don't, you and a few others(vinnie,southerner) create most of them. LOL, way to cover your ass. It seems like all of Giants nation plus a select few on this board see the light. The rest of this board though still in the upside down where Daniel Jones is a good QB who just needs more help and Gettleman is a GM savant. This team is bad. Really bad. Feel free to spare us the ‘I’m part of the smart ones’ schtick,’. Being a pessimist is exactly the same as being an optimist, it’s simply a choice one makes from their couch. It has absolutely no actual impact on the team or its results and I can assure no one here is keeping track, because no one cares.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 13, 2021 9:33:41 GMT -5
Daniel Jones isn't awful. He's just limited. He locks onto receivers and he has poor pocket awareness. But he can make plays too. Honestly....he's a high level back up in this league to me at this point. That isn't "awful". But it isn't good either. At this point, he's just who he is and we need to accept it. I agree. How many years did Dave Brown serve as a backup in the league after the Giants bounced him? That's where I see Jones's career heading ....
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2021 9:34:22 GMT -5
I think that it is both. The coaching hasn't been good from Garrett and Jones hasn't adjusted to teams figuring him out. You're both right IMO. I’d be more convinced if the article was a little older.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 13, 2021 9:38:07 GMT -5
Daniel Jones isn't awful. He's just limited. He locks onto receivers and he has poor pocket awareness. But he can make plays too. Honestly....he's a high level back up in this league to me at this point. That isn't "awful". But it isn't good either. At this point, he's just who he is and we need to accept it. I agree. How many years did Dave Brown serve as a backup in the league after the Giants bounced him? That's where I see Jones's career heading .... We better hope we're both wrong. We mortgaged our future for THIS year. Even this week we back loaded more contracts with guaranteed money.
I'm really concerned for our future. God I hope I'm wrong because I'm getting older every day. I'd like to see our team win something again.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 13, 2021 9:41:54 GMT -5
I agree. How many years did Dave Brown serve as a backup in the league after the Giants bounced him? That's where I see Jones's career heading .... We better hope we're both wrong. We mortgaged our future for THIS year. Even this week we back loaded more contracts with guaranteed money.
I'm really concerned for our future. God I hope I'm wrong because I'm getting older every day. I'd like to see our team win something again.
The QB is the most important player on the field. A championship QB comes up big in big spots and lifts up a team that is not playing well around him. Jones is the exact opposite. He comes up small in the biggest spot and he is the most likely one to make a mind-numbing mistake at a crucial moment in a game. That's just who he is. Don't see it suddenly changing in year 3..
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Sept 13, 2021 9:42:34 GMT -5
It seems like all of Giants nation plus a select few on this board see the light. The rest of this board though still in the upside down where Daniel Jones is a good QB who just needs more help and Gettleman is a GM savant. This team is bad. Really bad. Feel free to spare us the ‘I’m part of the smart ones’ schtick,’. Being a pessimist is exactly the same as being an optimist, it’s simply a choice one makes from their couch. It has absolutely no actual impact on the team or its results and I can assure no one here is keeping track, because no one cares. Except in this case, the pessimism is based in reality, and optimism is based on nothing.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Sept 13, 2021 9:44:00 GMT -5
I think that it is both. The coaching hasn't been good from Garrett and Jones hasn't adjusted to teams figuring him out. You're both right IMO. I’d be more convinced if the article was a little older. You can be a contrarian to the article and the opinion that Jones sucks, but the performance on the field doesn't support your views. He's been terrible, arguably the worst QB in football.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Sept 13, 2021 9:49:21 GMT -5
Daniel Jones isn't awful. He's just limited. He locks onto receivers and he has poor pocket awareness. But he can make plays too. Honestly....he's a high level back up in this league to me at this point. That isn't "awful". But it isn't good either. At this point, he's just who he is and we need to accept it. Unfortunately, he is pretty much what all the draft analysts said he was coming out of college to be honest. The only ones who thought differently were DG and the Giants. I even think McShay actually said exactly that..a high level backup Not that I put a lot of credence in most of those clowns, but it was pretty much a consensus opinion
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2021 9:52:14 GMT -5
Feel free to spare us the ‘I’m part of the smart ones’ schtick,’. Being a pessimist is exactly the same as being an optimist, it’s simply a choice one makes from their couch. It has absolutely no actual impact on the team or its results and I can assure no one here is keeping track, because no one cares. Except in this case, the pessimism is based in reality, and optimism is based on nothing. Of course, I never said differently. Guessing it’s gonna rain based on yesterday’s weather and current cloud conditions takes as little prescience as understanding the likelihood yet still hoping it doesn’t. Externally, they’re exactly the same in their meaninglessness.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2021 9:55:30 GMT -5
I’d be more convinced if the article was a little older. You can be a contrarian to the article and the opinion that Jones sucks, but the performance on the field doesn't support your views. He's been terrible, arguably the worst QB in football. What article? That was a still picture with an attempted punchline from some couch fan. I have said nothing about Jones, or his performance on the field. Those are all your projections.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 13, 2021 9:59:25 GMT -5
It seems like all of Giants nation plus a select few on this board see the light. The rest of this board though still in the upside down where Daniel Jones is a good QB who just needs more help and Gettleman is a GM savant. This team is bad. Really bad. Feel free to spare us the ‘I’m part of the smart ones’ schtick,’. Being a pessimist is exactly the same as being an optimist, it’s simply a choice one makes from their couch. It has absolutely no actual impact on the team or its results and I can assure no one here is keeping track, because no one cares. Thank you for saying what many of us have been wanting to say or have been saying but get peer bullied on here by this crowd It's almost like they are patting themselves on the back over this,which honestly is reprehensible. Meanwhile if they are indeed right I hope they are the first ones to do the same thing if we.now end up in qb hell,another GM and 2 more HC changes and say this is what they wanted...because they will be getting exactly what they wanted
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Post by bluebuddha on Sept 13, 2021 10:01:27 GMT -5
We better hope we're both wrong. We mortgaged our future for THIS year. Even this week we back loaded more contracts with guaranteed money.
I'm really concerned for our future. God I hope I'm wrong because I'm getting older every day. I'd like to see our team win something again.
The QB is the most important player on the field. A championship QB comes up big in big spots and lifts up a team that is not playing well around him. Jones is the exact opposite. He comes up small in the biggest spot and he is the most likely one to make a mind-numbing mistake at a crucial moment in a game. That's just who he is. Don't see it suddenly changing in year 3.. Bridgewater was extending and creating plays. DJ is a robot with all his athletic ability. He does not have a killer instinct. He might be the least instinctive QB in the NFL.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Sept 13, 2021 10:05:56 GMT -5
Except in this case, the pessimism is based in reality, and optimism is based on nothing. Of course, I never said differently. Guessing it’s gonna rain based on yesterday’s weather and current cloud conditions takes as little prescience as understanding the likelihood yet still hoping it doesn’t. Externally, they’re exactly the same in their meaninglessness. Got it, so you're just a proponent of eternal optimism. Nothing wrong with that, and honestly probably a healthier lifestyle than pessimism. I wish I could be more like that but the evidence on the field has sapped most of the hope I had for Jones and this team over the past 3 years.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 13, 2021 10:08:58 GMT -5
I have seen awful. I have lived through awful. DJ is not awful.
I remember when fans (and the media) used to say Phil Simms was awful. That he was a bust. That Scott Brunner should be the starter.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Sept 13, 2021 10:09:25 GMT -5
Feel free to spare us the ‘I’m part of the smart ones’ schtick,’. Being a pessimist is exactly the same as being an optimist, it’s simply a choice one makes from their couch. It has absolutely no actual impact on the team or its results and I can assure no one here is keeping track, because no one cares. Thank you for saying what many of us have been wanting to say or have been saying but get peer bullied on here by this crowd It's almost like they are patting themselves on the back over this,which honestly is reprehensible. Meanwhile if they are indeed right I hope they are the first ones to do the same thing if we.now end up in qb hell,another GM and 2 more HC changes and say this is what they wanted...because they will be getting exactly what they wanted No one, who would spend their time on a New York Giants message board is patting themselves on the back because the Jones and the Giants suck. I hate losing and would love nothing more than to be wrong. If Jones takes us to the playoffs, I'll gladly eat crown and take the proverbial message board lambasting I'll deserve. But he's not going to do that and I'm not going to fake it like all is good when it's clear we are already in QB hell with Jones.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2021 10:10:44 GMT -5
Feel free to spare us the ‘I’m part of the smart ones’ schtick,’. Being a pessimist is exactly the same as being an optimist, it’s simply a choice one makes from their couch. It has absolutely no actual impact on the team or its results and I can assure no one here is keeping track, because no one cares. Thank you for saying what many of us have been wanting to say or have been saying but get peer bullied on here by this crowd It's almost like they are patting themselves on the back over this,which honestly is reprehensible. Meanwhile if they are indeed right I hope they are the first ones to do the same thing if we.now end up in qb hell,another GM and 2 more HC changes and say this is what they wanted...because they will be getting exactly what they wanted That’s not what this is about. It’s just as bad in the other direction. Being hopeful - particularly given the complete lack of facts in evidence supporting it - isn’t “better”. It's simply a different personal choice. Neither is right or wrong because both have the same impact: zero. I don’t see any bullying, I just see a lot of pissed off passionate fans, justifiably so. The point of that message is that attacking one another is pointless. Each of us gets to choose how we react to it, that choice is personal because there is no right or wrong when your influence over a situation is zero. One isn’t “better” than the other. Everyone is angry because this team has been losing for years with no end in sight. Like all things, we’ll know it’s over when it’s over.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 13, 2021 10:10:49 GMT -5
I have seen awful. I have lived through awful. DJ is not awful. I remember when fans (and the media) used to say Phil Simms was awful. That he was a bust. That Scott Brunner should be the starter. And fans got their wish And 1983 happened Unfortunately it's not 1979-1983 anymore ...its a 3 year do or die window these days
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2021 10:14:02 GMT -5
Of course, I never said differently. Guessing it’s gonna rain based on yesterday’s weather and current cloud conditions takes as little prescience as understanding the likelihood yet still hoping it doesn’t. Externally, they’re exactly the same in their meaninglessness. Got it, so you're just a proponent of eternal optimism. Nothing wrong with that, and honestly probably a healthier lifestyle than pessimism. I wish I could be more like that but the evidence on the field has sapped most of the hope I had for Jones and this team over the past 3 years. I’m not actually, I just don’t see the point of attacking others that choose to feel differently. And yeah, this team is an absolute killljoy. I want to be optimistic but realistically I can’t. I don’t want to be pessimistic because the Giants have ruined enough Sundays in my life. Screw them, I’m not giving them that power anymore.
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