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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 14, 2021 8:40:25 GMT -5
Eli would not have won last Sundays game IMO. ..hmm, maybe I'm the odd one being the opposite but I saw the "it factor" with Daniel flash his very first game - the unforgettable win in Tampa Bay. It took me years to warm to Eli, looked like a bust the first two years. Eli completed only 48% of his passes as a Rookie on a winning team - Warner completed 63% on the same team. I remember All Time Greats like Terry Bradshaw say that Eli didn't have the "it factor" and couldn't command a huddle..a lot of people thought it because of his quiet nature. Eli's Giants won 11 his 2nd year..but Eli was fortunate to take over a winning team with Hall of Famers on the defense. The 2006-2007 Giants wouldn't make Teddy Bridgewater look like Joe Montana. I remember the running game looked so easy back then...now Jones is our leading rusher. Usually your QB being your leading rusher is a bad sign. He was our second leading rusher last season as well.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 14, 2021 9:41:37 GMT -5
LOL, those are tough words from HOF inductee Rodger Sherman! Attacking the messenger again. Defense mechanism 101. I'm not attacking the messenger, I'm dismissing him. I don't consider a snapshot of a play that captures a microsecond of live game action to be objective evidence of anything. Others can feel free to feel differently, mileage varies.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Sept 14, 2021 10:59:48 GMT -5
While I've never really been a believer in Jones, after really thinking about it, I think that Garrett is the biggest reason for his decline. Fumbles aside, look how much better DJ looked under Shurmur. It's not even close. Look how it appears he has regressed under the clapper. It's not like the talent level 2 years ago was that much better than now. Look how wide open Denver's receivers were yesterday, over and over. Look how tight the coverage was on our receivers, maybe except for SS. That isn't a talent disparity , that is 100% scheme to me. I try not to be a knee jerk reaction, hot take guy, but I really believe this is the biggest thing holding Jones back. I think he had time to throw for the most part yesterday to be honest. He was not under that much pressure. Guys were just not open and the routes were poor, hardly any deep balls at all. Routes run short of the sticks on 3rd down. Very little motion. I think when this is flushed out, we will see that the biggest issue is Garrett. Garret couldn't hold shurmurs Jock strap, Shurmur's offense with Denvers new weaponry looked a lot like what he did in Minnesota and really resembled the games in their Playoff run attacking all levels of the field. Garrets offense as it is right now is not creative little to no presnap motion just stale and diluted they need to get Calloway and Kitchens involved.. Like I said in another post, I wish there was a way we could have retained Shurmur as an OC. I know it wasn't going to happen, but I was a little worried that DJ losing Shurmur was going to hurt him. I just think it's hurt him way more than I imagined
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Post by allnygin on Sept 14, 2021 11:34:39 GMT -5
Eli would not have won last Sundays game IMO. ..hmm, maybe I'm the odd one being the opposite but I saw the "it factor" with Daniel flash his very first game - the unforgettable win in Tampa Bay. It took me years to warm to Eli, looked like a bust the first two years. Eli completed only 48% of his passes as a Rookie on a winning team - Warner completed 63% on the same team. I remember All Time Greats like Terry Bradshaw say that Eli didn't have the "it factor" and couldn't command a huddle..a lot of people thought it because of his quiet nature. Eli's Giants won 11 his 2nd year..but Eli was fortunate to take over a winning team with Hall of Famers on the defense. The 2006-2007 Giants wouldn't make Teddy Bridgewater look like Joe Montana. I remember the running game looked so easy back then...now Jones is our leading rusher. That's def true. He did have the it factor in that game. We'll have to wait and see. Hope he does become the franchise staple but based on play not bc they're stuck with him.
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Post by allnygin on Sept 14, 2021 11:36:29 GMT -5
I always felt Eli was going to be good, I haven't felt that way with DJ, but to be fair until this season he hasn't had much to work with. Eli would not have won last Sundays game IMO. Well have to agree to disagree, maybe im biased, but Eli in his prime with the weapons jones had on the outside defeintly would've performed better than Jones in that game, simply based on football IQ alone. But maybe not. All I know is Eli has had more clutch wins based on his arm talent alone than jones has had turnovers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 11:36:48 GMT -5
Fire Gettlemen Fire Judge Fire Garrett Jones Sucks Saquan Sucks The O line Sucks ....................the next week of mindless threads. Oh and F#$% the Maras ,.................did I miss anything? The OL is holding Jones and Barkley back. Our defense lost the game. Not Jones, Barkley or the offense. Jones is a top QB in the NFL if he could only have a great OL, great WRs, great TE, great RB, great OC, a water squirted with better accuracy and softer towels to wipe sweat off his face. It was week 1 after no preseason, no practices because of COVID a new OC, a new system, rookies in the OL playing together for the first time… oh wait that was last year’s thread that got bumped somehow.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 14, 2021 14:27:12 GMT -5
Eli would not have won last Sundays game IMO. Well have to agree to disagree, maybe im biased, but Eli in his prime with the weapons jones had on the outside defeintly would've performed better than Jones in that game, simply based on football IQ alone. But maybe not. All I know is Eli has had more clutch wins based on his arm talent alone than jones has had turnovers. I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram.
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Post by bluejayc on Sept 14, 2021 14:55:51 GMT -5
Well have to agree to disagree, maybe im biased, but Eli in his prime with the weapons jones had on the outside defeintly would've performed better than Jones in that game, simply based on football IQ alone. But maybe not. All I know is Eli has had more clutch wins based on his arm talent alone than jones has had turnovers. I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram. Nailed it.......I had the benefit of re-watching the game....NONE of these guys got any separation.....it had nothing to do with Jones staring receivers down. There was nowhere to throw the ball....if you don't believe me watch the condensed replay. Even the catches they did make were all contested in tight windows......meanwhile the Bronco's receivers had no one within 3 yards of them all game.
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Post by allnygin on Sept 14, 2021 22:21:24 GMT -5
Well have to agree to disagree, maybe im biased, but Eli in his prime with the weapons jones had on the outside defeintly would've performed better than Jones in that game, simply based on football IQ alone. But maybe not. All I know is Eli has had more clutch wins based on his arm talent alone than jones has had turnovers. I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram. Sheppard consistently thoughrought his career averaged 3+ yards of separation if i'm not mistaken, same as Engram. Golloday has never been a big separation guy nor was he expected to be that when he came here. HIs separation comes from catch radius. I'm sorry, but if he can get it done with the likes of Golloday, Shep, Engram, Barkley, slayton and toney by the end of the season good riddance. It was week one most of these guys haven't played much there's rust, but not to acknowledge this team has legit weapons is kinda weird.
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Post by Martin on Sept 14, 2021 22:35:05 GMT -5
I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram. Sheppard consistently thoughrought his career averaged 3+ yards of separation if i'm not mistaken, same as Engram. Golloday has never been a big separation guy nor was he expected to be that when he came here. HIs separation comes from catch radius. I'm sorry, but if he can get it done with the likes of Golloday, Shep, Engram, Barkley, slayton and toney by the end of the season good riddance. It was week one most of these guys haven't played much there's rust, but not to acknowledge this team has legit weapons is kinda weird. The Giants need more weapons, more draft picks a new GM a new OC and DJ needs more time to grow into the job. Oh but we had a good week of practice.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 14, 2021 22:43:42 GMT -5
I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram. Sheppard consistently thoughrought his career averaged 3+ yards of separation if i'm not mistaken, same as Engram. Golloday has never been a big separation guy nor was he expected to be that when he came here. HIs separation comes from catch radius. I'm sorry, but if he can get it done with the likes of Golloday, Shep, Engram, Barkley, slayton and toney by the end of the season good riddance. It was week one most of these guys haven't played much there's rust, but not to acknowledge this team has legit weapons is kinda weird. I have to agree here with the caviat that if somehow the same bland stale prevent style passing game is what we see every week through the end there is no way in hell we will see what Jones truly is (or get any semblance of a consistent running game going either)..but let's hope that changes one way or another But the weapons are in place for a modern potentially explosive passing attack and first indication is the line is not going to be a reason Jones can't get it done (injuries and week 1 fluke not withstanding,the fluke thing is less likely) Actually right now it's on Garrett to do the next thing and unleash Jones so he can possibly take advantage of this...
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Post by allnygin on Sept 14, 2021 23:06:45 GMT -5
Sheppard consistently thoughrought his career averaged 3+ yards of separation if i'm not mistaken, same as Engram. Golloday has never been a big separation guy nor was he expected to be that when he came here. HIs separation comes from catch radius. I'm sorry, but if he can get it done with the likes of Golloday, Shep, Engram, Barkley, slayton and toney by the end of the season good riddance. It was week one most of these guys haven't played much there's rust, but not to acknowledge this team has legit weapons is kinda weird. I have to agree here with the caviat that if somehow the same bland stale prevent style passing game is what we see every week through the end there is no way in hell we will see what Jones truly is (or get any semblance of a consistent running game going either)..but let's hope that changes one way or another But the weapons are in place for a modern potentially explosive passing attack and first indication is the line is not going to be a reason Jones can't get it done (injuries and week 1 fluke not withstanding,the fluke thing is less likely) Actually right now it's on Garrett to do the next thing and unleash Jones so he can possibly take advantage of this... I agree with that.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Sept 15, 2021 0:23:56 GMT -5
Well have to agree to disagree, maybe im biased, but Eli in his prime with the weapons jones had on the outside defeintly would've performed better than Jones in that game, simply based on football IQ alone. But maybe not. All I know is Eli has had more clutch wins based on his arm talent alone than jones has had turnovers. I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram. Based on your assessment, the fundamental issue for the Giants is talent evaluation. They invested $72MM in Golladay, a 1st rounder in Tony, and here we are with a less than top 20 WR group. Let's not even begin on the talent deficient oline. What this leads me to conclude is that even if you grant every excuse people want to make for Jones, i wouldn't trust he is any good anyway based on the talent evaluators who drafted him. I don't believe they whiffed on every offensive draft and free agent but somehow got it right with Jones.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 15, 2021 9:52:05 GMT -5
I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram. Based on your assessment, the fundamental issue for the Giants is talent evaluation. They invested $72MM in Golladay, a 1st rounder in Tony, and here we are with a less than top 20 WR group. Let's not even begin on the talent deficient oline. What this leads me to conclude is that even if you grant every excuse people want to make for Jones, i wouldn't trust he is any good anyway based on the talent evaluators who drafted him. I don't believe they whiffed on every offensive draft and free agent but somehow got it right with Jones. I have seen many QB's questioned over the years before they broke out. Some were traded. Some were cut and then broke out with other teams. I can not say if DJ will be bad, average or good yet. I think he was very solid on Sunday outside of his 1 fumble. I am concerned about the contract given Golloday. We had awful separation last season. We cant have a guy averaging 1 yard separation like he did on Sunday. Hopefully that was just 1 game. Letting Kevin Zeitler go does look like a mistake after 1 game.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 15, 2021 9:57:55 GMT -5
I say this respectfully but the weapons outside? I see no evidence that the Giants even had a top 20 group of weapons outside on Sunday. This team desperately needs a guy that can get open consistently with separation. Sheppard did his best but he is not Tyreek Hill. Golloday averaged less than 1 yard of separation on Sunday. That is a concern for me. Rudolph may still be battling injury. He looked better as a blocker than a receiver which has not been the norm for his career. Slaton caught a ball early but after that? It may sound crazy but this team really missed Engram. Sheppard consistently thoughrought his career averaged 3+ yards of separation if i'm not mistaken, same as Engram. Golloday has never been a big separation guy nor was he expected to be that when he came here. HIs separation comes from catch radius. I'm sorry, but if he can get it done with the likes of Golloday, Shep, Engram, Barkley, slayton and toney by the end of the season good riddance. It was week one most of these guys haven't played much there's rust, but not to acknowledge this team has legit weapons is kinda weird. In most ratings this teams receiver group was rated in the bottom 3rd of the league. I like Shep but he is not a pro bowler. I like Engram. If he can catch the ball he is a weapon. We missed him on Sunday IMO. If Golloday can not get open his contract will not last long here. He was under 1 yard separation on Sunday. That is not going to cut it. Slayton is given 9 yards of cushion but averages less than 2 yards of separation. That is not good. What did Toney and Barkley do on Sunday? Were they wide open and passes to them missed? I have high hopes for Barkley and Toney but they were not open on Sunday. Define legit weapons. Are our WR group in the top 50% of the NFL?
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