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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 23:17:00 GMT -5
The ceiling on Daniel Jones coming out of Duke was low. Daniel Jones is now showing that assessment to be accurate because those exact same issues are manifest here in his game in NFL.
Who's the rocket scientist/s that affixed this "ceiling" to Daniel Jones that you've latched onto? PFF?
Of course Daniel Jones has no issues coming out of college and he was rated as the #6 overall pick.
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Post by magilla on Nov 8, 2019 23:26:32 GMT -5
The ceiling on Daniel Jones coming out of Duke was low. Daniel Jones is now showing that assessment to be accurate because those exact same issues are manifest here in his game in NFL.
Who's the rocket scientist/s that affixed this "ceiling" to Daniel Jones that you've latched onto? PFF?
Whoever it is/was has been so far proven right. We passed on Josh Allen at #6. Let that one sink in. Here’s just one of many that had issues with Daniel Jones- www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2019/4/23/18310437/daniel-jones-nfl-draft-hype-why
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 23:31:54 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling.
Better coach I'll give you.
Gettleman has been an NFL executive for about 10 years now. Mayock is 10 months on the job, and only a fool would waste time discussing a QB's ceiling after 7 games.
Your posts of late appear to be a pretty lame attempt to get a rise out of others, rather than offering anything of value to the discussion.
Tell you what we are talking Raiders because they have one some games. Last night they had 2 pick 6s and a couple other picks I believe, were losing with 2 and change left in the game should have been a blow out, they aint that good they have health and probably are getting the bounces. the Giants have not been healthy and are starting a rookie, this isn't rocket science.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 23:35:13 GMT -5
Oakland Raiders have a better GM and HC running the organization as well as a better QB with a higher ceiling.
Better coach I'll give you.
Gettleman has been an NFL executive for about 10 years now. Mayock is 10 months on the job, and only a fool would waste time discussing a QB's ceiling after 7 games.
Your posts of late appear to be a pretty lame attempt to get a rise out of others, rather than offering anything of value to the discussion.
DG has 31 years of front office experience think you are spot on he is more then qualified being he contributed greatly to our last 2 superbowls and GMed the Panthers to one.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 23:41:10 GMT -5
Who's the rocket scientist/s that affixed this "ceiling" to Daniel Jones that you've latched onto? PFF?
Of course Daniel Jones has no issues coming out of college and he was rated as the #6 overall pick.
Another ridiculous comment.
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Post by krappdetector on Nov 8, 2019 23:44:12 GMT -5
Why not? I think we all have seen Eli enough to know how he would do behind center this season. And we 100% weren't winning that Bucs game with Eli. Thats 50% of our wins. Not coincidentally at all if you look at it that way, that's the only conclusion you could draw. It is patently absurd to compare things that DID NOT HAPPEN. That is called arguing the counter factual, and we have better things to do than that. Eli did not play in these games, either as a rookie in 2004 or now as the former first team QB. So let the ELI krapp go. He is done.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 8, 2019 23:44:28 GMT -5
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 23:45:13 GMT -5
Better coach I'll give you.
Gettleman has been an NFL executive for about 10 years now. Mayock is 10 months on the job, and only a fool would waste time discussing a QB's ceiling after 7 games.
Your posts of late appear to be a pretty lame attempt to get a rise out of others, rather than offering anything of value to the discussion.
Derek Carr at this point is far superior to Daniel Jones and there’s nothing Daniel Jones has shown to disprove that. So far, Daniel Jones has lived up to the concerns about him coming out of college. I’m not attempting to get a rise out of anyone but your statement that I am is your obvious attempt. How about Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. Think DJ will be fine he hasn't had a full compliment of weapons yet his OL has been banged up I still don't believe solder or Remmers have been healthy. That Bull$#!t that these clowns put out there is just that, these kids will develop at their own pace and these GMs have forgotten more then their critics know about the game.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 8, 2019 23:47:06 GMT -5
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Post by magilla on Nov 9, 2019 0:01:13 GMT -5
The point would be funny if the people that warned about Daniel Jones problems were wrong but they aren't because all the issues that were red flags against Daniel Jones coming out of the draft, Daniel Jones has so far lived up, or if you prefer, down too. Once again, you're way wrong on this just as you were in regard to Chris Simms.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 0:01:19 GMT -5
Good god. I can't wait for the next phase of this rebuild.
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Post by magilla on Nov 9, 2019 0:02:21 GMT -5
Derek Carr at this point is far superior to Daniel Jones and there’s nothing Daniel Jones has shown to disprove that. So far, Daniel Jones has lived up to the concerns about him coming out of college. I’m not attempting to get a rise out of anyone but your statement that I am is your obvious attempt. How about Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. Think DJ will be fine he hasn't had a full compliment of weapons yet his OL has been banged up I still don't believe solder or Remmers have been healthy. That Bull$#!t that these clowns put out there is just that, these kids will develop at their own pace and these GMs have forgotten more then their critics know about the game. Thats why DG was fired over in Carolina and that's why PS is 17-40 as HC.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 9, 2019 1:59:24 GMT -5
Not coincidentally at all if you look at it that way, that's the only conclusion you could draw. It is patently absurd to compare things that DID NOT HAPPEN. That is called arguing the counter factual, and we have better things to do than that. Eli did not play in these games, either as a rookie in 2004 or now as the former first team QB. So let the ELI krapp go. He is done. I'm aware; why are you telling me? I didn't bring him up.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 9, 2019 7:11:32 GMT -5
How about Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. Think DJ will be fine he hasn't had a full compliment of weapons yet his OL has been banged up I still don't believe solder or Remmers have been healthy. That Bull$#!t that these clowns put out there is just that, these kids will develop at their own pace and these GMs have forgotten more then their critics know about the game. Thats why DG was fired over in Carolina and that's why PS is 17-40 as HC. LOL think you need a banana. DG was fired because the owner a sick old fool was upset he released some of the over the hill gang, he was not fired for performance based reasons, actually he might have been one of better GMs for that 3-4 year period.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 9, 2019 7:13:44 GMT -5
The point would be funny if the people that warned about Daniel Jones problems were wrong but they aren't because all the issues that were red flags against Daniel Jones coming out of the draft, Daniel Jones has so far lived up, or if you prefer, down too. Once again, you're way wrong on this just as you were in regard to Chris Simms. So Mr Gorilla who was the right choice in your expert opinion and who would you have drafted the last 2 years.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 9, 2019 7:30:08 GMT -5
Not coincidentally at all if you look at it that way, that's the only conclusion you could draw. It is patently absurd to compare things that DID NOT HAPPEN. That is called arguing the counter factual, and we have better things to do than that. Eli did not play in these games, either as a rookie in 2004 or now as the former first team QB. So let the ELI krapp go. He is done. By this logic, you cant say if DJ had better OL he would be playing better at QB. Oh well. Guess we cant debate those types of things either since they DID NOT HAPPEN either....
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 9, 2019 7:31:47 GMT -5
Good god. I can't wait for the next phase of this rebuild. Does that involve firing the HC again?
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Post by magilla on Nov 9, 2019 7:35:40 GMT -5
The point would be funny if the people that warned about Daniel Jones problems were wrong but they aren't because all the issues that were red flags against Daniel Jones coming out of the draft, Daniel Jones has so far lived up, or if you prefer, down too. Once again, you're way wrong on this just as you were in regard to Chris Simms. So Mr Gorilla who was the right choice in your expert opinion and who would you have drafted the last 2 years. I don’t have an expert opinion. Neither do you. I would’ve drafted Saquon Barkley because I don’t think you pass on talent like that and I posted about that before 2018 NFL Draft. Josh Allen was gifted to us at #6 and I would’ve drafted him because he was the best available at that point and I think he would’ve been a. If help to our team.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 9, 2019 8:24:16 GMT -5
So Mr Gorilla who was the right choice in your expert opinion and who would you have drafted the last 2 years. I don’t have an expert opinion. Neither do you. I would’ve drafted Saquon Barkley because I don’t think you pass on talent like that and I posted about that before 2018 NFL Draft. Josh Allen was gifted to us at #6 and I would’ve drafted him because he was the best available at that point and I think he would’ve been a. If help to our team. Make no mistake I am an expert, about as much an expert as the guys who judge these prospects. Just joking
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Post by TEM on Nov 9, 2019 8:35:33 GMT -5
I don’t have an expert opinion. Neither do you. I would’ve drafted Saquon Barkley because I don’t think you pass on talent like that and I posted about that before 2018 NFL Draft. Josh Allen was gifted to us at #6 and I would’ve drafted him because he was the best available at that point and I think he would’ve been a. If help to our team. Make no mistake I am an expert, about as much an expert as the guys who judge these prospects. Just joking @ a 47% failure rate among 1st round picks. Are there any experts? A coin flip is almost as reliable as the experts.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 9, 2019 9:10:28 GMT -5
Make no mistake I am an expert, about as much an expert as the guys who judge these prospects. Just joking @ a 47% failure rate among 1st round picks. Are there any experts? A coin flip is almost as reliable as the experts. That's because there is so much more than just making the right pick. They also need to be coached and developed correctly and also be given a chance with talent around them. No matter how great a QB is, if he has a schmuck HC in charge and the worst OL in the league, he will never succeed.
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Post by TEM on Nov 9, 2019 9:17:33 GMT -5
@ a 47% failure rate among 1st round picks. Are there any experts? A coin flip is almost as reliable as the experts. That's because there is so much more than just making the right pick. They also need to be coached and developed correctly and also be given a chance with talent around them. No matter how great a QB is, if he has a schmuck HC in charge and the worst OL in the league, he will never succeed. I can agree with that to some extent . There are other factors as well this is a post I made last week. If you look at this list. It shows a pattern of drafting that all NFL FOs use as a means to build a team. herosports.com/nfl-draft/schools-colleges-most-first-round-draft-picks-nfl-draft-history-byby This list it is telling out of a possible 1674 first round draft picks from a total of 154 schools The top 10 schools drafted from represent 35% of the first round ever drafted The top 20 schools drafted from represent 58% of the first round ever drafted. The top 30 schools drafted from represent 70% of the first round ever drafted. The bottom 124 Schools represent 30% of the draft. There is a 53% first round success rate using the top 30 NCAA programs. Just is just my observation and purely speculation. The NFL drafts the best players for specific schools . Not necessarily the best player available. I took a random school off this list as a sample (Southern Mississippi.) 4-1st round picks in the schools history. Tony Smith pick 19 1992 draft 3 seasons. Louis Lipps pick 23 1984 draft: ROY, 2 time pro -bowl, 9 NFL seasons Hanford Dixon pick 22 1981 draft: 2 time All Pro, 3 time pro-bowl, 9 NFL seasons Ray Guy pick 23 1973 draft: 6 time All Pro , 7 time pro- bowl, HOF class of 2014, 14 NFL seasons. This 1 random school I picked out of the bottom of this list 75% success rate in the first round 22% Above the NFL average So I question. Is the talent evaluation process flawed? Is the players talent over inflated because of that talent of the team around him is superior to the talent of the opponents he plays in the NCAA? When that player is drafted into the NFL. Now he is in a situation where all 22 on the field are the best of the best. So now the playing field is equalized and the true nature of the player's talent or lack of is exposed.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 9, 2019 9:19:56 GMT -5
The point would be funny if the people that warned about Daniel Jones problems were wrong but they aren't because all the issues that were red flags against Daniel Jones coming out of the draft, Daniel Jones has so far lived up, or if you prefer, down too. Once again, you're way wrong on this just as you were in regard to Chris Simms. I wasn’t trying to be funny. I simply posted a picture of the guy you posted. The difference between us is I don’t listen to kids like this. I listen to players and coaches at the highest level. Even someone like a Chris Simms, has credibility because he became a professional QB. He was drafted by and played for a pretty good football man by the name of John Gruden if memory serves, until his spleen ruptured. He also spent some time coaching on Bill Belichick’s staff as well. You see, that’s the type of information I know. I don’t pretend to know Daniel Jones’ or any other player’s ceiling. A player’s ceiling depends on many things that have yet to come.
WPIX channel 11 did a Giants pre-game show last Monday before the Dallas game that was hosted by their female sportscaster whose name I don’t know. I turned it it on about half way into the program and they had another reporter out at the stadium hanging with some middle-aged fans of both teams who were blasting music and dancing - or at least they thought they were. The reporter would shout to each one of them, asking which team would win and why, and sometimes someone might have given a proper answer, and sometimes they said something that sounded as if they hadn’t heard the question. This was truly one of If not the worst segments I had ever seen. Thankfully the reporter sent it back to the sportscaster who had Justin Tuck and someone else with her who then proceeding to bring up some other stupid and useless topic which I don’t remember, except that Justin sat there politely smiling as I changed the station. And I remember thinking to myself that I cannot believe what has happened around the game of football.
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Post by TEM on Nov 9, 2019 9:37:08 GMT -5
The point would be funny if the people that warned about Daniel Jones problems were wrong but they aren't because all the issues that were red flags against Daniel Jones coming out of the draft, Daniel Jones has so far lived up, or if you prefer, down too. Once again, you're way wrong on this just as you were in regard to Chris Simms. I wasn’t trying to be funny. I simply posted a picture of the guy you posted. The difference between us is I don’t listen to kids like this. I listen to players and coaches at the highest level. Even someone like a Chris Simms, has credibility because he became a professional QB. He was drafted by and played for a pretty good football man by the name of John Gruden if memory serves, until his spleen ruptured. He also spent some time coaching on Bill Belichick’s staff as well. You see, that’s the type of information I know. I don’t pretend to know Daniel Jones’ or any other player’s ceiling. A player’s ceiling depends on many things that have yet to come.
WPIX channel 11 did a Giants pre-game show last Monday before the Dallas game that was hosted by their female sportscaster whose name I don’t know. I turned it it on about half way into the program and they had another reporter out at the stadium hanging with some middle-aged fans of both teams who were blasting music and dancing - or at least they thought they were. The reporter would shout to each one of them, asking which team would win and why, and sometimes someone might have given a proper answer, and sometimes they said something that sounded as if they hadn’t heard the question. This was truly one of If not the worst segments I had ever seen. Thankfully the reporter sent it back to the sportscaster who had Justin Tuck and someone else with her who then proceeding to bring up some other stupid and useless topic which I don’t remember, except that Justin sat there politely smiling as I changed the station. And I remember thinking to myself that I cannot believe what has happened around the game of football. It went from a game centralized focus . To an entertainment centralized focus. Entertainment brings a larger demographic than us on this site as students of the game. We see it differently. The technical aspect of the game itself are what drive our interests. We are a small segment of the population.
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Post by jb456 on Nov 9, 2019 9:43:59 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? The raiders did not dismantle their entire team . Still on the Raiders from 2017 25% retention Reggie Nelson Karl Joseph Nicholas Morrow Dexter McDonald Justin Ellis Marquel Lee DeAndre Washington Jalen Richard Keith McGill Rodney Hudson Derrick Carr Maurice Hurst Gabe Jackson Still on the Giants from 2017 17 % retention Eli Jack rabbit Wayne Gallman Rhett Ellison Zak DeOssie Jon Halapio Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Evan Engram The Raiders had 72 million in cap space this past off season. The Giants had 23 million The Giants are starting a rookie QB. Dude, please stop using logic. There is no place for it on this board. Every bad team is exactly the same and why arent the Giants good this year!
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 9, 2019 10:03:53 GMT -5
That's because there is so much more than just making the right pick. They also need to be coached and developed correctly and also be given a chance with talent around them. No matter how great a QB is, if he has a schmuck HC in charge and the worst OL in the league, he will never succeed. I can agree with that to some extent . There are other factors as well this is a post I made last week. If you look at this list. It shows a pattern of drafting that all NFL FOs use as a means to build a team. herosports.com/nfl-draft/schools-colleges-most-first-round-draft-picks-nfl-draft-history-byby This list it is telling out of a possible 1674 first round draft picks from a total of 154 schools The top 10 schools drafted from represent 35% of the first round ever drafted The top 20 schools drafted from represent 58% of the first round ever drafted. The top 30 schools drafted from represent 70% of the first round ever drafted. The bottom 124 Schools represent 30% of the draft. There is a 53% first round success rate using the top 30 NCAA programs. Just is just my observation and purely speculation. The NFL drafts the best players for specific schools . Not necessarily the best player available. I took a random school off this list as a sample (Southern Mississippi.) 4-1st round picks in the schools history. Tony Smith pick 19 1992 draft 3 seasons. Louis Lipps pick 23 1984 draft: ROY, 2 time pro -bowl, 9 NFL seasons Hanford Dixon pick 22 1981 draft: 2 time All Pro, 3 time pro-bowl, 9 NFL seasons Ray Guy pick 23 1973 draft: 6 time All Pro , 7 time pro- bowl, HOF class of 2014, 14 NFL seasons. This 1 random school I picked out of the bottom of this list 75% success rate in the first round 22% Above the NFL average So I question. Is the talent evaluation process flawed? Is the players talent over inflated because of that talent of the team around him is superior to the talent of the opponents he plays in the NCAA? When that player is drafted into the NFL. Now he is in a situation where all 22 on the field are the best of the best. So now the playing field is equalized and the true nature of the player's talent or lack of is exposed. Thats a lot of digging, and I applaud the effort, but the bottom line is, there is no concrete formula for drafting. I still think the eye test and knowledge of the games situations is best at evaluating prospects. For some reason, Bill Belichick, who is so good at developing and teaching players up and maximizing their potentials, isnt that good at evaluating talent during the draft. He just always has a copious amount of picks in every draft and tries to decrease the odds of him not finding anyone that fits his system. I think its brilliant.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 9, 2019 10:34:58 GMT -5
it wasn't too long ago that Incognito was available for any one who wanted him and we passed on him just like a lot of other teams... Most teams passed on him because he was having mental breakdowns when the dolphins thing went down I was all for is signing him tho. got laughed at on the old board. I'm not sure of the facts about this but it seems Incognito was being blamed for being tough on a gay player on the team and he got a lot of bad press about it...
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 9, 2019 10:47:48 GMT -5
Most teams passed on him because he was having mental breakdowns when the dolphins thing went down I was all for is signing him tho. got laughed at on the old board. I'm not sure of the facts about this but it seems Incognito was being blamed for being tough on a gay player on the team and he got a lot of bad press about it... So you are don't have the facts and you weren't in the Miami lockerroom but you came up with a scenario anyway even though the situation was investigated and reported thoroughly. Sounds about right in the timeline we are currently living in.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 9, 2019 10:52:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure of the facts about this but it seems Incognito was being blamed for being tough on a gay player on the team and he got a lot of bad press about it... So you are don't have the facts and you weren't in the Miami lockerroom but you came up with a scenario anyway even though the situation was investigated and reported thoroughly. Sounds about right in the timeline we are currently living in. I am sure about this though, Incognito was blamed for being tough on a gay player and I do have the facts right about that, so what's your point here...
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 9, 2019 10:57:13 GMT -5
I wasn’t trying to be funny. I simply posted a picture of the guy you posted. The difference between us is I don’t listen to kids like this. I listen to players and coaches at the highest level. Even someone like a Chris Simms, has credibility because he became a professional QB. He was drafted by and played for a pretty good football man by the name of John Gruden if memory serves, until his spleen ruptured. He also spent some time coaching on Bill Belichick’s staff as well. You see, that’s the type of information I know. I don’t pretend to know Daniel Jones’ or any other player’s ceiling. A player’s ceiling depends on many things that have yet to come.
WPIX channel 11 did a Giants pre-game show last Monday before the Dallas game that was hosted by their female sportscaster whose name I don’t know. I turned it it on about half way into the program and they had another reporter out at the stadium hanging with some middle-aged fans of both teams who were blasting music and dancing - or at least they thought they were. The reporter would shout to each one of them, asking which team would win and why, and sometimes someone might have given a proper answer, and sometimes they said something that sounded as if they hadn’t heard the question. This was truly one of If not the worst segments I had ever seen. Thankfully the reporter sent it back to the sportscaster who had Justin Tuck and someone else with her who then proceeding to bring up some other stupid and useless topic which I don’t remember, except that Justin sat there politely smiling as I changed the station. And I remember thinking to myself that I cannot believe what has happened around the game of football. It went from a game centralized focus . To an entertainment centralized focus. Entertainment brings a larger demographic than us on this site as students of the game. We see it differently. The technical aspect of the game itself are what drive our interests. We are a small segment of the population. You’re absolutely right TEM. Today’s game is about celebrating the game no matter what happens on the field. Today they celebrate what they’re supposed to have done, no matter how many scores they’re down.
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