|
Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 9, 2019 11:08:27 GMT -5
It went from a game centralized focus . To an entertainment centralized focus. Entertainment brings a larger demographic than us on this site as students of the game. We see it differently. The technical aspect of the game itself are what drive our interests. We are a small segment of the population. You’re absolutely right TEM. Today’s game is about celebrating the game no matter what happens on the field. Today they celebrate what they’re supposed to have done, no matter how many scores they’re down. Odell was a PERFECT example of this.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Nov 9, 2019 11:21:08 GMT -5
I can agree with that to some extent . There are other factors as well this is a post I made last week. If you look at this list. It shows a pattern of drafting that all NFL FOs use as a means to build a team. herosports.com/nfl-draft/schools-colleges-most-first-round-draft-picks-nfl-draft-history-byby This list it is telling out of a possible 1674 first round draft picks from a total of 154 schools The top 10 schools drafted from represent 35% of the first round ever drafted The top 20 schools drafted from represent 58% of the first round ever drafted. The top 30 schools drafted from represent 70% of the first round ever drafted. The bottom 124 Schools represent 30% of the draft. There is a 53% first round success rate using the top 30 NCAA programs. Just is just my observation and purely speculation. The NFL drafts the best players for specific schools . Not necessarily the best player available. I took a random school off this list as a sample (Southern Mississippi.) 4-1st round picks in the schools history. Tony Smith pick 19 1992 draft 3 seasons. Louis Lipps pick 23 1984 draft: ROY, 2 time pro -bowl, 9 NFL seasons Hanford Dixon pick 22 1981 draft: 2 time All Pro, 3 time pro-bowl, 9 NFL seasons Ray Guy pick 23 1973 draft: 6 time All Pro , 7 time pro- bowl, HOF class of 2014, 14 NFL seasons. This 1 random school I picked out of the bottom of this list 75% success rate in the first round 22% Above the NFL average So I question. Is the talent evaluation process flawed? Is the players talent over inflated because of that talent of the team around him is superior to the talent of the opponents he plays in the NCAA? When that player is drafted into the NFL. Now he is in a situation where all 22 on the field are the best of the best. So now the playing field is equalized and the true nature of the player's talent or lack of is exposed. Thats a lot of digging, and I applaud the effort, but the bottom line is, there is no concrete formula for drafting. I still think the eye test and knowledge of the games situations is best at evaluating prospects. For some reason, Bill Belichick, who is so good at developing and teaching players up and maximizing their potentials, isnt that good at evaluating talent during the draft. He just always has a copious amount of picks in every draft and tries to decrease the odds of him not finding anyone that fits his system. I think its brilliant. The one thing that is not been advancing with technology is drafting. As you pointed out is it NFL system, Development, Coaching, the player himself? And as I pointed out. It seem the evaluation process is tenuis and based more on a guess than physical data. The data is there. The NFL has seen enough playing time and quality and not so good players to see similarities in what is causing that. DeAndre Baker as an example: I am pulling for the kid. I really am. With his comments after the game were alarming. I do not blame it totally on him. The playbook is complex . He is not in a system anymore.( The NCAA) You stand on this side of the field, and cover who they put in front of you. Now he has an actual playbook. The book may have a set defensive formation for a give situation. That formation has multiple reads on what assignments are according to the offensive formation. It is a lot to take in in a few seconds. Apparently he is ill prepared for the reads. Where does the problem lie? It is easy to say fire the DC. Because he is not conveying assignment...…. That is the easiest approach. Lets turn back the clock to the combine: red flag with the drafting process: ( this is not just a Giants thing. ) There is film on him, so he has the underlying talent. He was interview , Given the IQ test...…. so how did his obvious learning disability or dyslexia , ADD or what ever the problem is, go unseen during the vetting process. I do not think it due to laziness on his behalf. Because he admits he is having problems grasping the plays. It is obvious the Giants were not aware of his lack of understanding of the playbook ,because he said it off the cuff. Development from big program red flag I have no problem with him being drafted with a high pick. What I do have a problem with is; him being put into a basket with every other 1st round pick. "NFL ready" "instant impact player." Both of those phrase have been proven to be false give that almost half of the 1st round pick are busts. So knowing this, and all 32 teams know the statistics on failure rate. So the Giants take Baker ( Georgia ) #17 on the list of most NFL 1st round pick drafted from. He comes from a big program. He is expected to be, "fits in the box NFL player". So it is expected, he must be good because 34 other 1st round picks came out of that program. Here is the cavoite , he has the skills and the Giants are counting on his physical attributes. He does have them there is no doubt in that. He has this learning thing going on. Is he over complicating an already complex system? Or does he flat out not understand it? What I question is. How did this go unnoticed from the combine, into mini camp, through traning camp into the season? Or was it ignored? Has the NFL and it not just the Giants, become so stringent in what they expect out of players out of the gate, it has become unobtainable? Why hasn't the staff noticed his issue and tutored him on the playbook in a manner he can understand. This is just one example of probably thousands that go unresolved resulting in player failure. Just my opinion from observation.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Nov 9, 2019 12:01:57 GMT -5
TEM, not quoting your post to keep scrolling to a minimum. 2 comments. If Baker is having trouble picking up the play book, shouldn't his position coach spend some extra time with him, getting him up to speed? What's his job if not preparing the DBs? Also, Lawrence was our pick at 17, we traded back up to select Baker, at 30.
|
|
|
Post by krappdetector on Nov 9, 2019 12:15:52 GMT -5
It is patently absurd to compare things that DID NOT HAPPEN. That is called arguing the counter factual, and we have better things to do than that. Eli did not play in these games, either as a rookie in 2004 or now as the former first team QB. So let the ELI krapp go. He is done. I'm aware; why are you telling me? I didn't bring him up. You're right. Apologies. Sometimes the conversation gets me very confused and I lose track of who said what. (And sometimes that's a blessing. )
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Nov 9, 2019 12:23:23 GMT -5
TEM, not quoting your post to keep scrolling to a minimum. 2 comments. If Baker is having trouble picking up the play book, shouldn't his position coach spend some extra time with him, getting him up to speed? What's his job if not preparing the DBs? Also, Lawrence was our pick at 17, we traded back up to select Baker, at 30. Georgia is #17 on the list teams with the most NFL first round picks. I was not referring to the pick number itself . I agree about the coach or as I used a tutor. I am questioning how his lack of understanding went on so long. Why wasn't it picked up at the combine during the vetting process? Or was it seen and ignored?
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 9, 2019 12:40:15 GMT -5
Most teams passed on him because he was having mental breakdowns when the dolphins thing went down I was all for is signing him tho. got laughed at on the old board. I'm not sure of the facts about this but it seems Incognito was being blamed for being tough on a gay player on the team and he got a lot of bad press about it... That is part of the facts for sure, after words he started having fits of rage and looking like he was gonna go off the deep end.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 9, 2019 13:15:42 GMT -5
Thats a lot of digging, and I applaud the effort, but the bottom line is, there is no concrete formula for drafting. I still think the eye test and knowledge of the games situations is best at evaluating prospects. For some reason, Bill Belichick, who is so good at developing and teaching players up and maximizing their potentials, isnt that good at evaluating talent during the draft. He just always has a copious amount of picks in every draft and tries to decrease the odds of him not finding anyone that fits his system. I think its brilliant. The one thing that is not been advancing with technology is drafting. As you pointed out is it NFL system, Development, Coaching, the player himself? And as I pointed out. It seem the evaluation process is tenuis and based more on a guess than physical data. The data is there. The NFL has seen enough playing time and quality and not so good players to see similarities in what is causing that. DeAndre Baker as an example: I am pulling for the kid. I really am. With his comments after the game were alarming. I do not blame it totally on him. The playbook is complex . He is not in a system anymore.( The NCAA) You stand on this side of the field, and cover who they put in front of you. Now he has an actual playbook. The book may have a set defensive formation for a give situation. That formation has multiple reads on what assignments are according to the offensive formation. It is a lot to take in in a few seconds. Apparently he is ill prepared for the reads. Where does the problem lie? It is easy to say fire the DC. Because he is not conveying assignment...…. That is the easiest approach. Lets turn back the clock to the combine: red flag with the drafting process: ( this is not just a Giants thing. ) There is film on him, so he has the underlying talent. He was interview , Given the IQ test...…. so how did his obvious learning disability or dyslexia , ADD or what ever the problem is, go unseen during the vetting process. I do not think it due to laziness on his behalf. Because he admits he is having problems grasping the plays. It is obvious the Giants were not aware of his lack of understanding of the playbook ,because he said it off the cuff. Development from big program red flag I have no problem with him being drafted with a high pick. What I do have a problem with is; him being put into a basket with every other 1st round pick. "NFL ready" "instant impact player." Both of those phrase have been proven to be false give that almost half of the 1st round pick are busts. So knowing this, and all 32 teams know the statistics on failure rate. So the Giants take Baker ( Georgia ) #17 on the list of most NFL 1st round pick drafted from. He comes from a big program. He is expected to be, "fits in the box NFL player". So it is expected, he must be good because 34 other 1st round picks came out of that program. Here is the cavoite , he has the skills and the Giants are counting on his physical attributes. He does have them there is no doubt in that. He has this learning thing going on. Is he over complicating an already complex system? Or does he flat out not understand it? What I question is. How did this go unnoticed from the combine, into mini camp, through traning camp into the season? Or was it ignored? Has the NFL and it not just the Giants, become so stringent in what they expect out of players out of the gate, it has become unobtainable? Why hasn't the staff noticed his issue and tutored him on the playbook in a manner he can understand. This is just one example of probably thousands that go unresolved resulting in player failure. Just my opinion from observation. Well said.
|
|
|
Post by magilla on Nov 9, 2019 13:51:06 GMT -5
The point would be funny if the people that warned about Daniel Jones problems were wrong but they aren't because all the issues that were red flags against Daniel Jones coming out of the draft, Daniel Jones has so far lived up, or if you prefer, down too. Once again, you're way wrong on this just as you were in regard to Chris Simms. I wasn’t trying to be funny. I simply posted a picture of the guy you posted. The difference between us is I don’t listen to kids like this. I listen to players and coaches at the highest level. Even someone like a Chris Simms, has credibility because he became a professional QB. He was drafted by and played for a pretty good football man by the name of John Gruden if memory serves, until his spleen ruptured. He also spent some time coaching on Bill Belichick’s staff as well. You see, that’s the type of information I know. I don’t pretend to know Daniel Jones’ or any other player’s ceiling. A player’s ceiling depends on many things that have yet to come.
WPIX channel 11 did a Giants pre-game show last Monday before the Dallas game that was hosted by their female sportscaster whose name I don’t know. I turned it it on about half way into the program and they had another reporter out at the stadium hanging with some middle-aged fans of both teams who were blasting music and dancing - or at least they thought they were. The reporter would shout to each one of them, asking which team would win and why, and sometimes someone might have given a proper answer, and sometimes they said something that sounded as if they hadn’t heard the question. This was truly one of If not the worst segments I had ever seen. Thankfully the reporter sent it back to the sportscaster who had Justin Tuck and someone else with her who then proceeding to bring up some other stupid and useless topic which I don’t remember, except that Justin sat there politely smiling as I changed the station. And I remember thinking to myself that I cannot believe what has happened around the game of football. That’s part of the point. Even a kid that doesn’t know much like the guy posted, called it on Daniel Jones; not just the scouts. Granted, it’s only 7 games in to Daniel Jones career as an NFL starter but the mistakes mirror those that he made throughout his college career and DJ had a QB guru in college that couldn’t fix it. Chris Simms is an awesome analyst, I like the guy. I was referring when I posted about his marijuana use and you took offense and it’s something that Chris Simms regularly jokes about or I wouldn’t have posted it.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Nov 9, 2019 14:17:17 GMT -5
TEM, not quoting your post to keep scrolling to a minimum. 2 comments. If Baker is having trouble picking up the play book, shouldn't his position coach spend some extra time with him, getting him up to speed? What's his job if not preparing the DBs? Also, Lawrence was our pick at 17, we traded back up to select Baker, at 30. Georgia is #17 on the list teams with the most NFL first round picks. I was not referring to the pick number itself . I agree about the coach or as I used a tutor. I am questioning how his lack of understanding went on so long. Why wasn't it picked up at the combine during the vetting process? Or was it seen and ignored? Ah, gotcha on 17, my misunderstanding. Obviously the player has a lot of responsibility in his own development, but shouldn't the position coach figure this out prior to the middle of the season? I would think it would be pretty obvious during practice.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Nov 9, 2019 16:58:13 GMT -5
I wasn’t trying to be funny. I simply posted a picture of the guy you posted. The difference between us is I don’t listen to kids like this. I listen to players and coaches at the highest level. Even someone like a Chris Simms, has credibility because he became a professional QB. He was drafted by and played for a pretty good football man by the name of John Gruden if memory serves, until his spleen ruptured. He also spent some time coaching on Bill Belichick’s staff as well. You see, that’s the type of information I know. I don’t pretend to know Daniel Jones’ or any other player’s ceiling. A player’s ceiling depends on many things that have yet to come.
WPIX channel 11 did a Giants pre-game show last Monday before the Dallas game that was hosted by their female sportscaster whose name I don’t know. I turned it it on about half way into the program and they had another reporter out at the stadium hanging with some middle-aged fans of both teams who were blasting music and dancing - or at least they thought they were. The reporter would shout to each one of them, asking which team would win and why, and sometimes someone might have given a proper answer, and sometimes they said something that sounded as if they hadn’t heard the question. This was truly one of If not the worst segments I had ever seen. Thankfully the reporter sent it back to the sportscaster who had Justin Tuck and someone else with her who then proceeding to bring up some other stupid and useless topic which I don’t remember, except that Justin sat there politely smiling as I changed the station. And I remember thinking to myself that I cannot believe what has happened around the game of football. That’s part of the point. Even a kid that doesn’t know much like the guy posted, called it on Daniel Jones; not just the scouts. Granted, it’s only 7 games in to Daniel Jones career as an NFL starter but the mistakes mirror those that he made throughout his college career and DJ had a QB guru in college that couldn’t fix it. Chris Simms is an awesome analyst, I like the guy. I was referring when I posted about his marijuana use and you took offense and it’s something that Chris Simms regularly jokes about or I wouldn’t have posted it. Not for nothing But your are starting to resemble the Daniel Jones version of Haroni,and this isnt a badge of honor. I'm saying this as nice as possible.
|
|
|
Post by magilla on Nov 9, 2019 17:03:42 GMT -5
That’s part of the point. Even a kid that doesn’t know much like the guy posted, called it on Daniel Jones; not just the scouts. Granted, it’s only 7 games in to Daniel Jones career as an NFL starter but the mistakes mirror those that he made throughout his college career and DJ had a QB guru in college that couldn’t fix it. Chris Simms is an awesome analyst, I like the guy. I was referring when I posted about his marijuana use and you took offense and it’s something that Chris Simms regularly jokes about or I wouldn’t have posted it. Not for nothing But your are starting to resemble the Daniel Jones version of Haroni,and this isnt a badge of honor. I'm saying this as nice as possible. No. It’s not. I do disagree with your assessment but I do appreciate the concern and it is noted.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Nov 9, 2019 17:20:29 GMT -5
I wasn’t trying to be funny. I simply posted a picture of the guy you posted. The difference between us is I don’t listen to kids like this. I listen to players and coaches at the highest level. Even someone like a Chris Simms, has credibility because he became a professional QB. He was drafted by and played for a pretty good football man by the name of John Gruden if memory serves, until his spleen ruptured. He also spent some time coaching on Bill Belichick’s staff as well. You see, that’s the type of information I know. I don’t pretend to know Daniel Jones’ or any other player’s ceiling. A player’s ceiling depends on many things that have yet to come.
WPIX channel 11 did a Giants pre-game show last Monday before the Dallas game that was hosted by their female sportscaster whose name I don’t know. I turned it it on about half way into the program and they had another reporter out at the stadium hanging with some middle-aged fans of both teams who were blasting music and dancing - or at least they thought they were. The reporter would shout to each one of them, asking which team would win and why, and sometimes someone might have given a proper answer, and sometimes they said something that sounded as if they hadn’t heard the question. This was truly one of If not the worst segments I had ever seen. Thankfully the reporter sent it back to the sportscaster who had Justin Tuck and someone else with her who then proceeding to bring up some other stupid and useless topic which I don’t remember, except that Justin sat there politely smiling as I changed the station. And I remember thinking to myself that I cannot believe what has happened around the game of football. That’s part of the point. Even a kid that doesn’t know much like the guy posted, called it on Daniel Jones; not just the scouts. Granted, it’s only 7 games in to Daniel Jones career as an NFL starter but the mistakes mirror those that he made throughout his college career and DJ had a QB guru in college that couldn’t fix it. Chris Simms is an awesome analyst, I like the guy. I was referring when I posted about his marijuana use and you took offense and it’s something that Chris Simms regularly jokes about or I wouldn’t have posted it. Strange, I thought you were taking a shot at him by saying you wouldn't trust anything he says because he’s always high. But anyway, do you or that kid believe Jones was playing with a lot of talent at Duke? And do you or he think a QB needs a decent supporting cast to be at their best? And lastly, do you think the Giants have played well for Jones?
|
|
|
Post by magilla on Nov 9, 2019 19:17:49 GMT -5
That’s part of the point. Even a kid that doesn’t know much like the guy posted, called it on Daniel Jones; not just the scouts. Granted, it’s only 7 games in to Daniel Jones career as an NFL starter but the mistakes mirror those that he made throughout his college career and DJ had a QB guru in college that couldn’t fix it. Chris Simms is an awesome analyst, I like the guy. I was referring when I posted about his marijuana use and you took offense and it’s something that Chris Simms regularly jokes about or I wouldn’t have posted it. Strange, I thought you were taking a shot at him by saying you wouldn't trust anything he says because he’s always high. But anyway, do you or that kid believe Jones was playing with a lot of talent at Duke? And do you or he think a QB needs a decent supporting cast to be at their best? And lastly, do you think the Giants have played well for Jones? It was a joke about his decision making because Chris always jokes about getting high. I’m a frustrated fan and of course I’m going to want Daniel Jones to be good sooner rather than later but when he is showing the same issues that were a concern coming out of college, I’m going to worry. I admit I may be wrong and further more, I hope I’m wrong but with PS here and his track record, I’m not confident PS is the guy that can help him; if Kevin Gillbride and Coach Coughlin we’re here I’d have a lot more confidence.
|
|
|
Post by giants38 on Nov 9, 2019 23:05:26 GMT -5
@ a 47% failure rate among 1st round picks. Are there any experts? A coin flip is almost as reliable as the experts. That's because there is so much more than just making the right pick. They also need to be coached and developed correctly and also be given a chance with talent around them. No matter how great a QB is, if he has a schmuck HC in charge and the worst OL in the league, he will never succeed. True. My worry is that another season with Shurmur and no definite improvement in the OL, DJ may become another David Carr.
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Nov 9, 2019 23:14:30 GMT -5
That's because there is so much more than just making the right pick. They also need to be coached and developed correctly and also be given a chance with talent around them. No matter how great a QB is, if he has a schmuck HC in charge and the worst OL in the league, he will never succeed. True. My worry is that another season with Shurmur and no definite improvement in the OL, DJ may become another David Carr. One thing when everyoen points out the david carr thing, sure he took a beating, however teamates and players question his heart and work ethic.. david carr did a lot himself that contributed to his failures.
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Nov 10, 2019 0:42:13 GMT -5
I'm aware; why are you telling me? I didn't bring him up. You're right. Apologies. Sometimes the conversation gets me very confused and I lose track of who said what. (And sometimes that's a blessing. ) Oh good, I was worried this was gonna spin off into an argument about who was better Knute Rockne or Patrick Mahomes.
|
|
|
Post by DJones19 on Nov 10, 2019 1:11:07 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on this? Both teams got new HCs (Shurmur/Gruden), new GMs (Gettleman/Mayock), traded away great talent (OBJ/Cooper and Vernon/Mack).... Yet the Raiders are the ones showing improvement while the NY Giants are not. This is what is disappointing to me. They moved to 5-4 last night. Look respectable. We are 2-7 and look terrible. So why do you guys think the Raiders rebuild is working much better/quicker than the Giants rebuild as of now? Raiders are already on year 2 of the rebuild with a veteran QB in his prime, we didn't even start the year in full rebuilding mode. We started the year with Mara saying "I hope Eli has a great year and Daniel stay on the bench", and Gettleman saying the narrative that Eli is overpaid is a "crock". Now we have millions and millions of dollars against the salary cap on players that are no longer on the team or on the bench due to years of mismanagement. Another parallel is that both teams drafted a RB in the 1st round...both likely rookies of the year.
|
|
|
Post by boxcarwillie on Nov 10, 2019 1:42:33 GMT -5
Gettin incognito our of moth balls and getting him stable was big for them, is that where they spent their money or were the players already there. it wasn't too long ago that Incognito was available for any one who wanted him and we passed on him just like a lot of other teams... This points to another difference Tell me if i'm wrong, but, haven't the Raiders brought in some trouble maker type guys (Incognito, Vontez Burfect, Antonio Brown and maybe others) while the Giants have been very focused on avoiding these types?
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Nov 10, 2019 10:21:22 GMT -5
it wasn't too long ago that Incognito was available for any one who wanted him and we passed on him just like a lot of other teams... This points to another difference Tell me if i'm wrong, but, haven't the Raiders brought in some trouble maker type guys (Incognito, Vontez Burfect, Antonio Brown and maybe others) while the Giants have been very focused on avoiding these types? thats very true...
|
|
|
Post by Nullusion on Nov 10, 2019 10:53:20 GMT -5
I think a lot of it has to do with how Carr is playing now as compared to us having a rookie playing his 7th game. Big difference there.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 12, 2019 15:08:49 GMT -5
I think a lot of it has to do with how Carr is playing now as compared to us having a rookie playing his 7th game. Big difference there. I mean, I guess with all this talk that the Raiders had an established QB so its not the same talk, we can talk about the Arizona Cardinals rebuild too. They are clearly better as well.
|
|
|
Post by Nullusion on Nov 15, 2019 13:40:36 GMT -5
I think a lot of it has to do with how Carr is playing now as compared to us having a rookie playing his 7th game. Big difference there. I mean, I guess with all this talk that the Raiders had an established QB so its not the same talk, we can talk about the Arizona Cardinals rebuild too. They are clearly better as well. They also had the right personnel for their defense. The Giants have been in transition mode for these last two seasons and I think the seat will start warm next year and get hot quickly for a lot of people. Then whoever inherits the team will probably be anointed as a god.
|
|
|
Post by PennState1 on Nov 18, 2019 1:16:45 GMT -5
raiders/gruden started w/ a young QB to build around. Exactly! That’s not a rebuild
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 7:12:21 GMT -5
raiders/gruden started w/ a young QB to build around. Exactly! That’s not a rebuild To be fair, there were many people on this very forum (and in football land) that thought Derek Carr was not a good QB and that he would be replaced in either last years or this years draft by a new QB. The Raiders tore down the team. Traded top talents like Mack and Cooper for draft picks. Completely rebuilt the OL and DL. And have a new GM and HC. Id say thats a rebuild. The only thing is, Carr is still there because they did it the right way and rebuilt the OL first to help him out. Now he is looking much more like his first couple of years of play instead of the last couple. To me, the Raiders made the right choices while we did not and that is why we are 2-8 and they are 6-4. As I keep saying, next year will be a huge year to see if we are in fact headed the right direction or not. Giants must be at the very least a 8-8 team next year with good QB play to show we are back.
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Nov 18, 2019 7:46:21 GMT -5
I think a lot of it has to do with how Carr is playing now as compared to us having a rookie playing his 7th game. Big difference there. I mean, I guess with all this talk that the Raiders had an established QB so its not the same talk, we can talk about the Arizona Cardinals rebuild too. They are clearly better as well. The question is if gettleman really is this tough guy visionary, why didn't he sit Eli a year ago and draft a QB in 2018? No, instead he drafts RB who's performance is declining behind a line that was also gettlemans baby who as a unit are underperforming as well. So Mr tough guy instead appeases some by hanging onto Eli well past his prime, and getting rid of Beckham to show how "tough" he is. I am thinking now he had to get rid of Beckham as he was most likely to call out gettleman for his failings.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 8:04:41 GMT -5
I mean, I guess with all this talk that the Raiders had an established QB so its not the same talk, we can talk about the Arizona Cardinals rebuild too. They are clearly better as well. The question is if gettleman really is this tough guy visionary, why didn't he sit Eli a year ago and draft a QB in 2018? No, instead he drafts RB who's performance is declining behind a line that was also gettlemans baby who as a unit are underperforming as well. So Mr tough guy instead appeases some by hanging onto Eli well past his prime, and getting rid of Beckham to show how "tough" he is. I am thinking now he had to get rid of Beckham as he was most likely to call out gettleman for his failings. I do not think Gettleman is making the right moves to turn this team around as of now, but we need to see at least 1 more year. As for 2018, I was ok not going QB. To me that wasnt the mistake. The mistake was not taking Denvers trade back option to help this team fill more holes than just RB, which to me is arguably the least valuable part of most teams. No with us having a shiny new RB and shiny new QB, the 2020 draft MUST be about the OLine getting fixed. I still have no idea why he trade FOR a defensive player who is a FA in a month or 2, in the middle of a rebuild. I need to see it play out but right now its an embarrassing choice. He will need to be greatly overpaid to stay in this train wreck now. And if he doesn't, we wasted a 3rd and 5th round pick on nothing. And yes, we are paying Eli and Odell about $35m to not play this season (with us, for OBJ).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 8:08:39 GMT -5
raiders/gruden started w/ a young QB to build around. Exactly! That’s not a rebuild I don't see how it's not a rebuild. Just because Carr was there doesn't change the basic fact they gutted the team and traded a way their best talents on both sides of the ball for draft picks. If Getty didn't construct this terrible defense or maybe fixed the oline nobody would want his head but he failed up to this point.
|
|
soflo
Special Teams
Posts: 1,718
|
Post by soflo on Nov 18, 2019 10:53:45 GMT -5
LA Raiders?
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 11:02:28 GMT -5
I was wondering when someone would point that out. I was going to fix it but decided to see how long it would take. Vegas Raiders lol Those west coast Cali teams are all interchangeable. Rams, Chargers, Raiders whatever.
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 18, 2019 11:18:40 GMT -5
I mean, I guess with all this talk that the Raiders had an established QB so its not the same talk, we can talk about the Arizona Cardinals rebuild too. They are clearly better as well. They also had the right personnel for their defense. The Giants have been in transition mode for these last two seasons and I think the seat will start warm next year and get hot quickly for a lot of people. Then whoever inherits the team will probably be anointed as a god. Thats what is happening in AZ right now. They had some talent and a stud pass rusher, what some are failing to realize this is a full blown rebuild top to bottom it was the right time they had 0 game changers on defense 2 OLs under contract and 1 linebacker under contract, this is nothing like what the Raiders or Cardinals are doing they had salvageable pieces guys like chandler Jones who is playing to and above his contract.
|
|