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Post by thetruth on Mar 10, 2021 16:46:18 GMT -5
Doesn't make cutting your best lineman any more sensible. How are we backfilling?? Our "best lineman" is relative. Eating a pile of shit is better than being burned alive or drowning to death. Relative. Ok so whats our current guard talent 'relative' to the league? Speaking of a pile of shit... Your boy Jones needs the help more than most. Surprised by your take. Lets find out if you boys are right
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 16:47:18 GMT -5
Our "best lineman" is relative. Eating a pile of shit is better than being burned alive or drowning to death. Relative. Ok so whats our current guard depth 'relative' to the league? Speaking of a pile of shit... We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Mar 10, 2021 16:47:33 GMT -5
Dont believe everything you read kiddo.Starting guards who are great pass protectors are hard to find. Whats the plan then? who are the cheaper alternatives that are as good as Zietler? No, but Dan Duggan and Jordan Ranaan know more about Giants football than you or I ever will. its not a surprise. However it still sucks. If we dont solidify this Oline . Season is over before it starts.
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Post by thetruth on Mar 10, 2021 16:48:45 GMT -5
Ok so whats our current guard depth 'relative' to the league? Speaking of a pile of shit... We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. How long you been a Giants fan? Good lineman are HARD to find. Very hard. My question again, where are we finding this talent and with what cap space? What position suffers the opportunity cost of the #11 or #42 pick? considering, our GM is not bright enough to trade back? All food for thought
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Post by Kase1 on Mar 10, 2021 16:49:36 GMT -5
OOF sucks that we had to get rid of our most consistent OL, but due to cap restrictions we HAD to make this move Who knows, maybe we can re-sign and restructure him. Or would we have to pick up where we left off salary-wise instead of signing him to a whole new deal. This makes Wyatt Davis from Ohio St and Creed Humphrey from Oklahoma seem much more intriguing in the 2nd round, because I dont know how how much confidence I have in Lemieux and Hernandez as our starting guards... I guess that could work if we had a SOLID RT, but we dont. Maybe we draft Rashawn Slater, start him at RT with Hernandez and Lemieux as OG's and if 1 of them cant hang, move Slater inside and start Peart? Kase, I do think they're going with Lemuix and Hernandez as starters. Fleming is a FA, I think staff needs to see more out of Pert to move to starter. In the meantime Solder starts after restructure. Rookie Guard coming in draft I would think. To me Davis in the 2nd rd would be like getting a 1st rd pick. The same as I felt when we drafted Hernandez. But a lot of directions to go in that all important 2nd rd pick. Guess we see what we look like in FA after the smoke clears. I agree with the Davis Hernandez statement. I was a HUGE fan of Hernandez coming out of college and other than 2020, he looked like a good prospect. Then all of a sudden he can't run block to save his life, I didnt get it, and still don't. I can see Solder being a cut before the season starts just to free up money. I'm not saying I have a ton of faith in Peart because at times he looked totally lost out there, and other times he looked like he might be the answer at RT. Like pass rushers and CBS, you can't have enough good OL
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Post by thetruth on Mar 10, 2021 16:50:23 GMT -5
No, but Dan Duggan and Jordan Ranaan know more about Giants football than you or I ever will. its not a surprise. However it still sucks. If we dont solidify this Oline . Season is over before it starts. Its like people haven't seen what Daniel Jones looks like without pressure and with it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 16:52:08 GMT -5
What's bothering me the most?...he was a multi scheme guard, could do both zone and gap. And, he was a veteran...something an OL of rookies needs at least one quality starter. Now, we have a weaker OL...still need an X receiver...an edge, CB2....right tackle still a developing guy, DT...the board seems to hate Engram...so I guess we need a tight end...Barkley at pick 2...knee was shredded...gonna be a silly signing for contract 2 but we need a backup or two...this team has a LOT of holes with no cap, and not many picks. Should have extended... If they had to delete they have over 100 million in space starting in 2022 and that would have been easier to take a moderate dead money hit if they had to... Needed that veteran leadership as well ...I get it, the cap...but man this is DJ's show me year...if he fails, DG is gone, and we are blowing this entire thing up. I've watched my high school team get shredded by a single dual threat QB, and a one RB and we could not do a damn thing to stop it...without them having any talented offensive line either...but in the NFL, you can have a pro bowl weapon on every spot, and as we seen with the Chiefs...it won't work in the NFL having a sub standard OL...as if this team needs any more lessons in that. I've already seen Gettleman's cheap offensive linemen he has snagged as free agents...not impressed. This draft, as you said in another post is now is about OL, DT and maybe a mid round receiver, again...Jones can not have rookie projects protecting him in this critical year, and he certainly needs an X out wide.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 10, 2021 16:52:16 GMT -5
Dont believe everything you read kiddo.Starting guards who are great pass protectors are hard to find. Whats the plan then? who are the cheaper alternatives that are as good as Zietler? No, but Dan Duggan and Jordan Ranaan know more about Giants football than you or I ever will. Speak for yourself, i know Ranaan and he’s knows nothing X’s and O’s. Mr Maryland .My gosh, you actually believe the media lol
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Post by thetruth on Mar 10, 2021 16:52:28 GMT -5
Slater at #11. Hope he or Sewell drop.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 10, 2021 16:52:38 GMT -5
I cant wait to hear all the crying how our OL is the issue again next year if/when DJ and SQB are struggling to find space... Zeitler was our best OLineman. Really tough to swallow this and think we are headed in the right direction... Ill say it again, DG should have been fired a long time ago. He just keeps burying this team. We are deeper on the OL than when Zeitler arrived.His departure will hurt from a talent standpoint but it is a no brainer financially.I can also envision enough improvement among the 4 youngsters on the OL such that next year's like OL could be better than the one we had last year. Agreed. As for the 2nd part, I guess we will see. I've been told this over and over, time and time again. Our OL hasn't been good in quite a long time.
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Post by thetruth on Mar 10, 2021 16:53:36 GMT -5
No, but Dan Duggan and Jordan Ranaan know more about Giants football than you or I ever will. Speak for yourself, i know Ranaan and he’s knows nothing X’s and O’s. My gosh, you actually believe the media lol he's actually comically bad. Dan is not as bad though, both have no idea of X's and O's If anyone here wants to listen to two guys that actually do i'd suggest the "Big Blue Banter pod". They're fans who understand the game
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Post by McCherry on Mar 10, 2021 16:54:06 GMT -5
Ok so whats our current guard depth 'relative' to the league? Speaking of a pile of shit... We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. I haven't heard any of the Giants beat writers, former players or anyone I respect and follow say cutting Zeitler was a bad move schematically. All I heard from were completely in support of it. Why this move has taken most of this forum by surprise is beyond me. Confirms that nobody reads new anymore.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 10, 2021 16:55:17 GMT -5
Ok so whats our current guard depth 'relative' to the league? Speaking of a pile of shit... We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. So why didnt we do that before? If they just grow on trees? Yes, we will be able to find a cheaper alternative. Not sure we will find a better one though, while staying in our budget, which is razor thin.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 10, 2021 16:57:10 GMT -5
We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. I haven't heard any of the Giants beat writers, former players or anyone I respect and follow say cutting Zeitler was a bad move schematically. All I heard from were completely in support of it. Why this move has taken most of this forum by surprise is beyond me. Confirms that nobody reads new anymore. they wanted to keep Eli Manning too.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 10, 2021 16:57:55 GMT -5
We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. So why didnt we do that before? If they just grow on trees? Yes, we will be able to find a cheaper alternative. Not sure we will find a better one though, while staying in our budget, which is razor thin. Before what? We're projected to see an unprecedented surplus of veterans at all positions released in the next week.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 10, 2021 16:58:11 GMT -5
Something had to give and you can't have Will Hernandez riding the bench for Shane La pew
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 16:58:31 GMT -5
Kase, I do think they're going with Lemuix and Hernandez as starters. Fleming is a FA, I think staff needs to see more out of Pert to move to starter. In the meantime Solder starts after restructure. Rookie Guard coming in draft I would think. To me Davis in the 2nd rd would be like getting a 1st rd pick. The same as I felt when we drafted Hernandez. But a lot of directions to go in that all important 2nd rd pick. Guess we see what we look like in FA after the smoke clears. I agree with the Davis Hernandez statement. I was a HUGE fan of Hernandez coming out of college and other than 2020, he looked like a good prospect. Then all of a sudden he can't run block to save his life, I didnt get it, and still don't.
I can see Solder being a cut before the season starts just to free up money. I'm not saying I have a ton of faith in Peart because at times he looked totally lost out there, and other times he looked like he might be the answer at RT. Like pass rushers and CBS, you can't have enough good OL He was asked to do more zone blocking...he's strictly a gap guy Peart now scares me even more not having a veteran next to him.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 10, 2021 17:01:44 GMT -5
I cant wait to hear all the crying how our OL is the issue again next year if/when DJ and SQB are struggling to find space... Zeitler was our best OLineman. Really tough to swallow this and think we are headed in the right direction... Ill say it again, DG should have been fired a long time ago. He just keeps burying this team. We are deeper on the OL than when Zeitler arrived. His departure will hurt from a talent standpoint but it is a no brainer financially. I can also envision enough improvement among the 4 youngsters on the OL such that next year's like OL could be better than the one we had last year. Well said. The team knows exactly what it’s doing here, just like with Nick Gates and all the unnecessary flipping out, then eventual backtracking over that move.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 10, 2021 17:01:46 GMT -5
We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. So why didnt we do that before? If they just grow on trees? Yes, we will be able to find a cheaper alternative. Not sure we will find a better one though, while staying in our budget, which is razor thin. lol, RIGHT!!! We’ve only been trying to solidify this line since the Super Bowl in 2011 yet suddenly, with limited cash, the Giants not only going to find talent but outbid others for that talent.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 10, 2021 17:02:14 GMT -5
Should have extended... If they had to delete they have over 100 million in space starting in 2022 and that would have been easier to take a moderate dead money hit if they had to... Needed that veteran leadership as well ...I get it, the cap...but man this is DJ's show me year...if he fails, DG is gone, and we are blowing this entire thing up. I've watched my high school team get shredded by a single dual threat QB, and a one RB and we could not do a damn thing to stop it...without them having any talented offensive line either...but in the NFL, you can have a pro bowl weapon on every spot, and as we seen with the Chiefs...it won't work in the NFL having a sub standard OL...as if this team needs any more lessons in that. I've already seen Gettleman's cheap offensive linemen he has snagged as free agents...not impressed. This draft, as you said in another post is now is about OL, DT and maybe a mid round receiver, again...Jones can not have rookie projects protecting him in this critical year, and he certainly needs an X out wide. Honestly what I do if I'm the team is extend Bradberry,June 1st Solder.... get Williams to sign anything that frees up enough money to have space for Tomlinson and maybe Butler (one of those football players that will be standing outside Home Depot for a very long time as you say ) This way they can at least go BPA offense between O line and playmaker..and hope someone worthwhile is there at 42 if the go Slater at 11...and not be hight phobes like the relics over at BBV are if Eskridge is the last legit difference maker left Go spray and pray at WR afterwards I guess .. And hope all these young edge guys take a step forward...
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 10, 2021 17:02:35 GMT -5
I cant wait to hear all the crying how our OL is the issue again next year if/when DJ and SQB are struggling to find space... Zeitler was our best OLineman. Really tough to swallow this and think we are headed in the right direction... Ill say it again, DG should have been fired a long time ago. He just keeps burying this team. Do you think he shouldnt have tagged LW?
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 10, 2021 17:04:20 GMT -5
I agree with the Davis Hernandez statement. I was a HUGE fan of Hernandez coming out of college and other than 2020, he looked like a good prospect. Then all of a sudden he can't run block to save his life, I didnt get it, and still don't.
I can see Solder being a cut before the season starts just to free up money. I'm not saying I have a ton of faith in Peart because at times he looked totally lost out there, and other times he looked like he might be the answer at RT. Like pass rushers and CBS, you can't have enough good OL He was asked to do more zone blocking...he's strictly a gap guy Peart now scares me even more not having a veteran next to him. The pink elephant in the room right there Gates and Hernandez are our most experienced lineman...... Do you dare to move Hernandez over to RG ? And Slater... That's a rookie in between Gates and Peart
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Post by ocgiant on Mar 10, 2021 17:04:34 GMT -5
Again, not sure how this team gets better with musical chairs on an OL that already needed some work this off season.
Giants have their work cut out for them plus the Draft just a little critical and interesting on if this changes any selections
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 17:07:57 GMT -5
We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. How long you been a Giants fan? Good lineman are HARD to find. Very hard. My question again, where are we finding this talent and with what cap space? What position suffers the opportunity cost of the #11 or #42 pick? considering, our GM is not bright enough to trade back? All food for thought Obviously Zeitler suffered, and probably more to come. Im not sure what my fandom has to do with any of this though.. Just know that growing up I got my throwing motion from watching Kerry Collins every weekend.
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 10, 2021 17:09:33 GMT -5
Well hopefully we get 2019 Hernandez not 2020 Hernandez Let's also hope Lemieux makes a big leap in 2021 Oh shit, we also need a RT..... Maybe Rashawn Slater ISNT the worst idea, dude is a day 1 starter at RT or RG There are also a few day 2 or 3 guys that intrigue me like: Wyatt Davis, Creed Humphrey, Ben Cleveland, Dave Moore, Jackson Carman, Jaylon Mayfield, or Teven Jenkins I'm not happy about it but understand it. And at some point you have to have the young OL you drafted high play well, or you will never have a good OL.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 17:11:25 GMT -5
We obviously need help there. Help we can find at less than $12mm/yr for the same production im sure. So why didnt we do that before? If they just grow on trees? Yes, we will be able to find a cheaper alternative. Not sure we will find a better one though, while staying in our budget, which is razor thin. what was his dead cap number last year again? If Solder played in 2020 he would be gone right now. Everything is relative.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 10, 2021 17:13:55 GMT -5
I agree with the Davis Hernandez statement. I was a HUGE fan of Hernandez coming out of college and other than 2020, he looked like a good prospect. Then all of a sudden he can't run block to save his life, I didnt get it, and still don't.
I can see Solder being a cut before the season starts just to free up money. I'm not saying I have a ton of faith in Peart because at times he looked totally lost out there, and other times he looked like he might be the answer at RT. Like pass rushers and CBS, you can't have enough good OL He was asked to do more zone blocking...he's strictly a gap guy Peart now scares me even more not having a veteran next to him. We don't know that. And Lemieux actually is a veteran now.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 10, 2021 17:14:35 GMT -5
So why didnt we do that before? If they just grow on trees? Yes, we will be able to find a cheaper alternative. Not sure we will find a better one though, while staying in our budget, which is razor thin. what was his dead cap number last year again? If Solder played in 2020 he would be gone right now. Everything is relative. Yep He was supposed to be deleted this year with little dead money Now at best we have to June 1st him
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 10, 2021 17:17:02 GMT -5
He was asked to do more zone blocking...he's strictly a gap guy Peart now scares me even more not having a veteran next to him. We don't know that. And Lemieux actually is a veteran now. Each offseason is the same song with the same results once the game begin. Then again, you dismiss the record so there is no standard.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 10, 2021 17:20:21 GMT -5
If replacing Z is so easy, with this limited cap space, the Giants should consider letting Williams walk, cut 2/3rd of the OL and find the better replacements overnight.
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