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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 17:29:20 GMT -5
If replacing Z is so easy, with this limited cap space, the Giants should consider letting Williams walk, cut 2/3rd of the OL and find the better replacements overnight. I hope you eventually learn something about player skill level and front office politics from that comment. Screenshot it and carry it with you.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 10, 2021 17:30:44 GMT -5
I cant wait to hear all the crying how our OL is the issue again next year if/when DJ and SQB are struggling to find space... Zeitler was our best OLineman. Really tough to swallow this and think we are headed in the right direction... Ill say it again, DG should have been fired a long time ago. He just keeps burying this team. Do you think he shouldnt have tagged LW? To be honest, he put himself in quite the pickle. He cant let LW go because of the trade for him. If LW is looking for over $20M per season, which he could be, then it doesn't help us to long term him to save on cap.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 10, 2021 17:31:50 GMT -5
So why didnt we do that before? If they just grow on trees? Yes, we will be able to find a cheaper alternative. Not sure we will find a better one though, while staying in our budget, which is razor thin. what was his dead cap number last year again? If Solder played in 2020 he would be gone right now. Everything is relative. Its not going to be "easy" to replace Zeitlers production and value for this OL.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 17:32:48 GMT -5
what was his dead cap number last year again? If Solder played in 2020 he would be gone right now. Everything is relative. Its not going to be "easy" to replace Zeitlers production and value for this OL. I disagree Talking about Zeitler like we're the Raiders talking about Mack is something I will never understand.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 10, 2021 17:39:23 GMT -5
If replacing Z is so easy, with this limited cap space, the Giants should consider letting Williams walk, cut 2/3rd of the OL and find the better replacements overnight. I hope you eventually learn something about player skill level and front office politics from that comment. Screenshot it and carry it with you. If you read the thread you wouldn't be making that post.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 10, 2021 17:40:14 GMT -5
Its not going to be "easy" to replace Zeitlers production and value for this OL. I disagree Talking about Zeitler like we're the Raiders talking about Mack is something I will never understand. Try following along.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 10, 2021 17:51:46 GMT -5
sucks....they have to focus on the OL and play makers. They just made OL worse at this time Depending on what they do with Solder they might be able to get a pretty good replacement for him several are being cut because of the cap and they most will have to play cheap this year. can only hope for the best
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 17:54:19 GMT -5
He was asked to do more zone blocking...he's strictly a gap guy Peart now scares me even more not having a veteran next to him. We don't know that. And Lemieux actually is a veteran now. We'll just find a guard as good as KZ was, at half the price, cause in free agency you can get players in Zeitler's caliber for half of what he was making....because some poster "knows that". The young players will all improve...because some poster "knows that". The right move....because some poster "knows that". Yeah, Lemieux is a veteran now...with no anchor or punch, and no pass blocking ability...but quicker feet and the ability to read a defense for zone blocking schemes...that's the veteran we need moving forward. Have you seen the PFF on Solder, Lemieux and Thomas? Trusting Gettleman to snag a guard in free agency just as good?...hopefully we are not using his past track record of signing free agent offensive linemen, and Judge is having his say. There is a difference between a gap blocker, zone blocker, and a guard that can do both...and pass block. That was KZ. I know that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 18:00:52 GMT -5
We don't know that. And Lemieux actually is a veteran now. We'll just find a guard as good as KZ was, at half the price, cause in free agency you can get players in Zeitler's caliber for half of what he was making....because some poster  "knows that". The young players will all improve...because some poster "knows that". The right move....because some poster "knows that". Yeah, Lemieux is a veteran now...with no anchor or punch, and no pass blocking ability...but quicker feet and the ability to read a defense for zone blocking schemes...that's the veteran we need moving forward. Have you seen the PFF on Solder, Lemieux and Thomas? Trusting Gettleman to snag a guard in free agency just as good?...hopefully we are not using his past track record of signing free agent offensive linemen, and Judge is having his say. There is a difference between a gap blocker, zone blocker, and a guard that can do both...and pass block. That was KZ. I know that. Did you make this big of a fuss when we let Will Demps walk and started James Butler in '07?
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Post by McCherry on Mar 10, 2021 18:13:50 GMT -5
We don't know that. And Lemieux actually is a veteran now. We'll just find a guard as good as KZ was, at half the price, cause in free agency you can get players in Zeitler's caliber for half of what he was making....because some poster "knows that". The young players will all improve...because some poster "knows that". The right move....because some poster "knows that". Yeah, Lemieux is a veteran now...with no anchor or punch, and no pass blocking ability...but quicker feet and the ability to read a defense for zone blocking schemes...that's the veteran we need moving forward. Have you seen the PFF on Solder, Lemieux and Thomas? Trusting Gettleman to snag a guard in free agency just as good?...hopefully we are not using his past track record of signing free agent offensive linemen, and Judge is having his say. There is a difference between a gap blocker, zone blocker, and a guard that can do both...and pass block. That was KZ. I know that. I have heard quite a few beat reporters and former plays including David Diehl support this move. If you think the 32nd ranked OG was worth $14M, I'd like to hear some names out there that support your stance.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 10, 2021 18:25:19 GMT -5
Slater at #11. Hope he or Sewell drop. Were not taking either one of them. And Sewell is probably going to be great. Jonathon Ogden anyone ? And Slater will become a terrific Guard and a damn good OT. One of them could be there at #11 probably Slater. But as of today I for the life of me don't see how we can go anywhere except WR or Pitts if one of those 4 top guys are still there. If all 4 of the receivers are gone then anything can happen I would think.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 10, 2021 18:37:20 GMT -5
June 1st gives us more savings (would be enough for our draft picks) What do we save if we cut EE? All 6 million
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 10, 2021 18:45:10 GMT -5
Its not going to be "easy" to replace Zeitlers production and value for this OL. I disagree Talking about Zeitler like we're the Raiders talking about Mack is something I will never understand. Who is comparing Zeitler to Mack? Zeitler is solid guard in this league. As evident by our last 10ish years, they don't grow on trees. Who has filled in admirably since Snee and Seubert and better than Zeitler?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 10, 2021 18:47:50 GMT -5
We'll just find a guard as good as KZ was, at half the price, cause in free agency you can get players in Zeitler's caliber for half of what he was making....because some poster  "knows that". The young players will all improve...because some poster "knows that". The right move....because some poster "knows that". Yeah, Lemieux is a veteran now...with no anchor or punch, and no pass blocking ability...but quicker feet and the ability to read a defense for zone blocking schemes...that's the veteran we need moving forward. Have you seen the PFF on Solder, Lemieux and Thomas? Trusting Gettleman to snag a guard in free agency just as good?...hopefully we are not using his past track record of signing free agent offensive linemen, and Judge is having his say. There is a difference between a gap blocker, zone blocker, and a guard that can do both...and pass block. That was KZ. I know that. I have heard quite a few beat reporters and former plays including David Diehl support this move. If you think the 32nd ranked OG was worth $14M, I'd like to hear some names out there that support your stance. Support it, because it makes sense financially. It does. But we shouldn't be in this position. And it will hurt the OL.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 18:56:32 GMT -5
We'll just find a guard as good as KZ was, at half the price, cause in free agency you can get players in Zeitler's caliber for half of what he was making....because some poster "knows that". The young players will all improve...because some poster "knows that". The right move....because some poster "knows that". Yeah, Lemieux is a veteran now...with no anchor or punch, and no pass blocking ability...but quicker feet and the ability to read a defense for zone blocking schemes...that's the veteran we need moving forward. Have you seen the PFF on Solder, Lemieux and Thomas? Trusting Gettleman to snag a guard in free agency just as good?...hopefully we are not using his past track record of signing free agent offensive linemen, and Judge is having his say. There is a difference between a gap blocker, zone blocker, and a guard that can do both...and pass block. That was KZ. I know that. I have heard quite a few beat reporters and former plays including David Diehl support this move. If you think the 32nd ranked OG was worth $14M, I'd like to hear some names out there that support your stance. I understand cap issues were involved, we've been talking about this the entire year...and don't need others or my own past playing, coaching etc vs other posters debate team captain prowess to empower my position. IMHO is just that...an opinion. It was the wrong move. I know that. What's done is done, and hopefully we spend the first two picks on the OL....and have the next QB fully protected.
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Post by TEM on Mar 10, 2021 18:58:21 GMT -5
What do we save if we cut EE? All 6 million We can't cut him .5th year options are fully guaranteed
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Post by McCherry on Mar 10, 2021 19:07:33 GMT -5
We can't cut him .5th year options are fully guaranteed I don't think that is correct. I've seen many stories this offseason that have him as a possible cut.
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Post by TEM on Mar 10, 2021 19:13:04 GMT -5
We can't cut him .5th year options are fully guaranteed They are at the start of the league year.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 10, 2021 19:17:10 GMT -5
What do we save if we cut EE? All 6 million Cut or trade You are correct
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 10, 2021 19:23:47 GMT -5
I have heard quite a few beat reporters and former plays including David Diehl support this move. If you think the 32nd ranked OG was worth $14M, I'd like to hear some names out there that support your stance. I understand cap issues were involved, we've been talking about this the entire year...and don't need others or my own past playing, coaching etc vs other posters debate team captain prowess to empower my position. IMHO is just that...an opinion. It was the wrong move. I know that. What's done is done, and hopefully we spend the first two picks on the OL... .and have the next QB fully protected. Because unfortunately if it comes to this we still have Jones as a huge ?? Because we didn't yet again get him weapons (if Grampa Gettleman did the right thing in 2019..even with the trade up,and taken AJ Brown ..we wouldn't be in that dire of need ).. So hopefully the next GM remembers that his new qb needs weapons as well... By that time our defense will have aged and we would need to replace most of it also.. Uurgh I'm going to need something a lot stronger than beer thinking about this
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 19:24:00 GMT -5
I disagree Talking about Zeitler like we're the Raiders talking about Mack is something I will never understand. Who is comparing Zeitler to Mack? Zeitler is solid guard in this league. As evident by our last 10ish years, they don't grow on trees. Who has filled in admirably since Snee and Seubert and better than Zeitler? Who have we drafted/developed since then? Both of those guys are products of New York Giants development.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 19:51:22 GMT -5
I understand cap issues were involved, we've been talking about this the entire year...and don't need others or my own past playing, coaching etc vs other posters debate team captain prowess to empower my position. IMHO is just that...an opinion. It was the wrong move. I know that. What's done is done, and hopefully we spend the first two picks on the OL... .and have the next QB fully protected. Because unfortunately if it comes to this we still have Jones as a huge ?? Because we didn't yet again get him weapons (if Grampa Gettleman did the right thing in 2019..even with the trade up,and taken AJ Brown ..we wouldn't be in that dire of need ).. So hopefully the next GM remembers that his new qb needs weapons as well... By that time our defense will have aged and we would need to replace most of it also.. Uurgh I'm going to need something a lot stronger than beer thinking about this lol...just when you thought the o-line was almost done and we could get the X.
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Post by Antwuan on Mar 10, 2021 20:36:21 GMT -5
We better get a Good quality Guard in FA as a replacement.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 10, 2021 20:39:02 GMT -5
We can't cut him .5th year options are fully guaranteed Nah, not until the league year starts. What you are saying is true for the 2018 draft class and later due to change of language in the CBA, but Engram can absolutely be cut without penalty to our cap (until sometime in the upcoming months). That said, its a moot point, seems like he's not going anywhere.
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 10, 2021 20:43:28 GMT -5
We can't cut him .5th year options are fully guaranteed They are at the start of the league year. True. I was arguing the same a few months ago but was wrong. But I still think there is zero chance of EE being cut.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 10, 2021 20:49:39 GMT -5
With all the free agent Guards that are gonna be hitting the market we will see. Will H or Lemiuex might be able to handle it with might have been told to work on it. I do think Hernendez is servicable and at worst a decent stop gap, I loved what I saw with Lemiuex with regard to run blocking, his pass blocking is a concern. I def think they need to find another Guard at this point be it FA or draft. Not sure who's out there FA wise, but if they can get someone at least serviceable I guess its a win. Hopefully Lemiuex can grow into an all around player. Also, I hate hearing we can always get lineman in rounds 3-4 while it's been true over the course of the NFLs history it hardly works for us. If they have to invest highly then do it at this point. The oline again has to be priority esp now. We learned our lesson with OBJ.. Just invest heavily and highly in this damn line sick of it always being the pressing issue haha. OL is the most important part of the team with DL and Pass rush being a close second Gabe Jackson was cut this week think more are coming we will see. I agree we are knee deep in a youth movement takes a lot of patience to build this way but in the end it is worth it I want them to draft our WRs and OL. Think Will H isn't fitting the blocking scheme that is in place hopefully they gave him his assignments to work and he is doing it.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 10, 2021 20:55:00 GMT -5
We better get a Good quality Guard in FA as a replacement. Before or after the WR, Pass rusher, RT, and CB with $1.5m? Hell we even need a RB.
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Post by jb456 on Mar 10, 2021 21:47:27 GMT -5
We better get a Good quality Guard in FA as a replacement. Before or after the WR, Pass rusher, RT, and CB with $1.5m? Hell we even need a RB. This shit just got real.... Time for a drink and a toast to the start of another year with a bum line....
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 10, 2021 22:44:16 GMT -5
Do you think he shouldnt have tagged LW? To be honest, he put himself in quite the pickle. He cant let LW go because of the trade for him. If LW is looking for over $20M per season, which he could be, then it doesn't help us to long term him to save on cap. You really think Judge nor Graham want him back I'm sure when they were told who do they want they wanted Williams because he's the center piece of what Graham does. Guys who can play every position. Gettlemen has his own stuff but this is a team decision who the coaches say they can't live with out.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Mar 11, 2021 4:19:29 GMT -5
So as of now, outside of all the other needs this team has, we have to hope Thomas steps up at LT, figure out whats up with Hernandez at RG or if its Lemieux there, Gates at C works, a question at RG and a question at RT. Sounds promising for a young QB to get over the hump. this will not end well im afraid. And i was optimistic about this season. Smh. I guess lets see who we draft.
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