|
Post by Sarcasman on Jun 12, 2018 12:38:12 GMT -5
Stats don't lie, I'm a huge proponent of analyzing sports stats & no matter how some people try & spin it, the stats just don't lie. Since 2013, the NY football Giants have had an atrocious OL, no good RBs & up until last yr, no TEs. Yet all the blame goes right to Eli for this? How can he elevate the play around him when the talent level of those around him was mediocre to just plain awful. Name me the the OLmen & RBs that made the pro bowl in the past 5 yrs? Neither Brady nor AR would have made this team better than 8-8 during the past few yrs. Both those QBs woulda been screaming at their owner/GM/HC to surround them with talented players at every offensive position possible. Eli's problem is that he has never been a vocal field General & plays the meek role of the Private 1st class & goes along with the plan of the day. Has Eli had the OL that Brady & big Ben have had these past 5yrs? Has Eli had the RBs that those QBs have had since 2012? How bout TEs? The only thing Eli has had is the WRs, that's not enough to win 8 games let alone divisions let alone a playoff game. 2016 being the exception, when has Eli had the defenses that Brady/Ben have had? But yep, it's all Eli's fault that the team has missed the playoffs 5 of the past 6yrs. Tell that to Disraeli and Churchill. Although I think they're right about the utter uselessness of individual player's statistics in football.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 12, 2018 12:54:57 GMT -5
Stats don't lie, I'm a huge proponent of analyzing sports stats & no matter how some people try & spin it, the stats just don't lie. Since 2013, the NY football Giants have had an atrocious OL, no good RBs & up until last yr, no TEs. Yet all the blame goes right to Eli for this? How can he elevate the play around him when the talent level of those around him was mediocre to just plain awful. Name me the the OLmen & RBs that made the pro bowl in the past 5 yrs? Neither Brady nor AR would have made this team better than 8-8 during the past few yrs. Both those QBs woulda been screaming at their owner/GM/HC to surround them with talented players at every offensive position possible. Eli's problem is that he has never been a vocal field General & plays the meek role of the Private 1st class & goes along with the plan of the day. Has Eli had the OL that Brady & big Ben have had these past 5yrs? Has Eli had the RBs that those QBs have had since 2012? How bout TEs? The only thing Eli has had is the WRs, that's not enough to win 8 games let alone divisions let alone a playoff game. 2016 being the exception, when has Eli had the defenses that Brady/Ben have had? But yep, it's all Eli's fault that the team has missed the playoffs 5 of the past 6yrs. None of this changes the fact that our guy has not played well at all in two seasons now. I'm sure now that he's almost 38 he'll magically start standing tall in the pocket, he'll become more mobile, he'll stop going down without being touched, he'll stop throwing behind guy on crossing routes and stop rushing his throws. I'm with you now. The poor baby is just a victim.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 13:07:36 GMT -5
Stats don't lie, I'm a huge proponent of analyzing sports stats & no matter how some people try & spin it, the stats just don't lie. Since 2013, the NY football Giants have had an atrocious OL, no good RBs & up until last yr, no TEs. Yet all the blame goes right to Eli for this? How can he elevate the play around him when the talent level of those around him was mediocre to just plain awful. Name me the the OLmen & RBs that made the pro bowl in the past 5 yrs? Neither Brady nor AR would have made this team better than 8-8 during the past few yrs. Both those QBs woulda been screaming at their owner/GM/HC to surround them with talented players at every offensive position possible. Eli's problem is that he has never been a vocal field General & plays the meek role of the Private 1st class & goes along with the plan of the day. Has Eli had the OL that Brady & big Ben have had these past 5yrs? Has Eli had the RBs that those QBs have had since 2012? How bout TEs? The only thing Eli has had is the WRs, that's not enough to win 8 games let alone divisions let alone a playoff game. 2016 being the exception, when has Eli had the defenses that Brady/Ben have had? But yep, it's all Eli's fault that the team has missed the playoffs 5 of the past 6yrs. None of this changes the fact that our guy has not played well at all in two seasons now. I'm sure now that he's almost 38 he'll magically start standing tall in the pocket, he'll become more mobile, he'll stop going down without being touched, he'll stop throwing behind guy on crossing routes and stop rushing his throws. I'm with you now. The poor baby is just a victim. You forgot his biggest mistake of throwing it too high... You know they have to have a tall receiver but haven't these past 10 years.. Not sure what's the purpose of all this back and forth about why Eli has stunk these past handful or so years and how it's going to matter once the season starts... Barkley better hope Flowers can be a serviceable RT along with the player at RG because defenses will be forcing him to run that way...
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 12, 2018 13:12:45 GMT -5
None of this changes the fact that our guy has not played well at all in two seasons now. I'm sure now that he's almost 38 he'll magically start standing tall in the pocket, he'll become more mobile, he'll stop going down without being touched, he'll stop throwing behind guy on crossing routes and stop rushing his throws. I'm with you now. The poor baby is just a victim. You forgot his biggest mistake of throwing it too high... You know they have to have a tall receiver but haven't these past 10 years.. Not sure what's the purpose of all this back and forth about why Eli has stunk these past handful or so years and how it's going to matter once the season starts... Barkley better hope Flowers can be a serviceable RT along with the player at RG because defenses will be forcing him to run that way... Always thought the inaccuracy claims about Eli were way overblown. He throws a great deep out. But my point is that the old Eli is gone. My hope is that he will be a sufficient game manager to get us some wins. Keep the mistakes to a minimum make a play or two.
|
|
Byron
Special Teams
Posts: 372
|
Post by Byron on Jun 12, 2018 13:15:36 GMT -5
I am excited to see Eli this season, as far as this board goes it could do with a little less of the same old rhetoric from all parties involved. Let's just see what he has left in the tank this season. Plenty of past blame to go around, but it's all spilled milk at this point. These former players aren't helping anything by defending him like avid fan boys, that's just my two cents. Its like an endless echo that never stops ... I don't get the need to say the same thing to the same people over and over ... I'm excited and hopeful that Eli and the team have a great year ... screw what's happened in the past at this point ....
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jun 12, 2018 13:19:22 GMT -5
You forgot his biggest mistake of throwing it too high... You know they have to have a tall receiver but haven't these past 10 years.. Not sure what's the purpose of all this back and forth about why Eli has stunk these past handful or so years and how it's going to matter once the season starts... Barkley better hope Flowers can be a serviceable RT along with the player at RG because defenses will be forcing him to run that way... Always thought the inaccuracy claims about Eli were way overblown. He throws a great deep out. But my point is that the old Eli is gone. My hope is that he will be a sufficient game manager to get us some wins. Keep the mistakes to a minimum make a play or two. Me too. I don't think it's too much to ask of him or the team that he have the opportunity to operate like pretty much every other QB in the league.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Jun 12, 2018 13:22:48 GMT -5
I am excited to see Eli this season, as far as this board goes it could do with a little less of the same old rhetoric from all parties involved. Let's just see what he has left in the tank this season. Plenty of past blame to go around, but it's all spilled milk at this point. These former players aren't helping anything by defending him like avid fan boys, that's just my two cents. Its like an endless echo that never stops ... I don't get the need to say the same thing to the same people over and over ... I'm excited and hopeful that Eli and the team have a great year ... screw what's happened in the past at this point ....
Did you ever stop and think B, that some of us just don't realize that we are repeating ourselves?
|
|
Byron
Special Teams
Posts: 372
|
Post by Byron on Jun 12, 2018 13:35:11 GMT -5
Its like an endless echo that never stops ... I don't get the need to say the same thing to the same people over and over ... I'm excited and hopeful that Eli and the team have a great year ... screw what's happened in the past at this point ....
Did you ever stop and think B, that some of us just don't realize that we are repeating ourselves? Ahh well its no big dig but you young fellows shouldn't be having memory problems .... carry on
|
|
|
Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 12, 2018 13:36:43 GMT -5
I am excited to see Eli this season, as far as this board goes it could do with a little less of the same old rhetoric from all parties involved. Let's just see what he has left in the tank this season. Plenty of past blame to go around, but it's all spilled milk at this point. These former players aren't helping anything by defending him like avid fan boys, that's just my two cents.
I don't think we could have asked for a better off season coming off that cluster**** we had the last year.
It was obvious that Eli was incapable of doing anything in that offense, and I'm obviously excited about all the changes that have been made. Word is Eli has been throwing down field more during practice and that my friend is music to my ears. It allows me to believe that Shurmur/Shula will play to Eli's strengths unlike the buffoon with the Denny's menu.
I agree 100%.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jun 12, 2018 15:05:27 GMT -5
Eli was part of the crappy play. He is accountable too Yes , yes he is and I am pretty sure he has said so himself,multiple times. Do you agree that if a QB has a running back that can't run,receivers that can't catch and offensive linemen that can't block ...that he will look "crappy"? Of course. This team had many issues. But in my opinion Eli was one of the problems. Down on the list but he negatively contributed for sure.
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jun 12, 2018 16:22:41 GMT -5
Of course. This team had many issues. But in my opinion Eli was one of the problems. Down on the list but he negatively contributed for sure. Yes he was all I am saying that at points last year other factors contributed to Eli's crappy play ,wouldn't you agree? I would, absolutely. But I think the important aspect which is not always stated with this position is that he did play crappy. Especially last year. Yes, the team sucked, but he was awful as well.
|
|
|
Post by Roswell on Jun 12, 2018 17:26:59 GMT -5
Yes he was all I am saying that at points last year other factors contributed to Eli's crappy play ,wouldn't you agree? I would, absolutely. But I think the important aspect which is not always stated with this position is that he did play crappy. Especially last year. Yes, the team sucked, but he was awful as well. I think once a team starts out 0 - 5 and, in so doing, loses key players to injury, it’s impossible to expect the focus and 100% effort. That’s just human nature. I’m not defending that response but it is inevitable. So I really don’t think the Giants are a 3 - 13 team. And Eli is capable of much better. He will justify the pick of Barkley. Maybe even win comeback player of the year.
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jun 12, 2018 17:32:39 GMT -5
I view it differently.
"Wasting Eli's prime" to me implies some intent......I wouldn't agree with that. It is a silly premise.
I do agree that the decisions on the OL were beyond unlucky. They were a series of bad draft picks, marginal free agents, failure to understand the impending demise of the last good OL, hence a late start on getting ahead of the problem. In the final stages there was pure denial on how weak the talent was in that unit. All of that is true and it didn't help the team one bit. However, it hurt everyone, not just Eli.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 12, 2018 19:26:21 GMT -5
I view it differently. "Wasting Eli's prime" to me implies some intent......I wouldn't agree with that. It is a silly premise. I do agree that the decisions on the OL were beyond unlucky. They were a series of bad draft picks, marginal free agents, failure to understand the impending demise of the last good OL, hence a late start on getting ahead of the problem. In the final stages there was pure denial on how weak the talent was in that unit. All of that is true and it didn't help the team one bit. However, it hurt everyone, not just Eli. Jeez....It hurt all of us for God's sake.
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jun 12, 2018 21:27:56 GMT -5
I view it differently. "Wasting Eli's prime" to me implies some intent......I wouldn't agree with that. It is a silly premise. I do agree that the decisions on the OL were beyond unlucky. They were a series of bad draft picks, marginal free agents, failure to understand the impending demise of the last good OL, hence a late start on getting ahead of the problem. In the final stages there was pure denial on how weak the talent was in that unit. All of that is true and it didn't help the team one bit. However, it hurt everyone, not just Eli. Jeez....It hurt all of us for God's sake. Damn straight. I agree with jomo, it's a silly premise. As has been said a number of times in the thread, ask not what your team can do for you; ask what you can do for your team.
|
|
|
Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 12, 2018 21:43:10 GMT -5
Eli has won at least 1 SB in his prime if not 2. Saying the organization wasted it seems ridiculous. It also feels like ex-teammates pre loading excuses if he is still mediocre this season. All this scrambling to change narratives is just as lame from those players as it is from overly sensitive fans.
|
|
ocgiant
Starter
Posts: 3,454
Member is Online
|
Post by ocgiant on Jun 12, 2018 21:51:49 GMT -5
I wonder where the line is drawn? If Eli had a better OL, would his performance have improved last year? I think marginally based on everything that happened last year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 21:54:22 GMT -5
I wonder where the line is drawn? If Eli had a better OL, would his performance have improved last year? I think marginally based on everything that happened last year. who was he throwing to and who was calling the plays? O line was a factor but Mac did no favors for the offense. You draw the line starting game 1 and go from there.
|
|
Martin
Starter
Posts: 3,239
Member is Online
|
Post by Martin on Jun 12, 2018 22:00:41 GMT -5
I don't think the Jerry Reese neglected the Oline purposely. He had a plan and it didn't work after 2011 SB. In hind sight I'm sure he would have done things different. I guess we can say that about many things we all do. Mobile QB's (not running QB's) are a must as the defensive athletes are just more dominant and guys like Eli are a thing of the past. I believe he will do well this year with a better running game and protection. Sure he has to play better but he needs a foundation to work with as a non mobile QB. Given more time and confidence he will shine this year is my guess.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Jun 12, 2018 22:09:29 GMT -5
I wonder where the line is drawn? If Eli had a better OL, would his performance have improved last year? I think marginally based on everything that happened last year. who was he throwing to and who was calling the plays? O line was a factor but Mac did no favors for the offense. You draw the line starting game 1 and go from there. Eli's been a slow starter. I won't base my opinion on him from game 1.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 12, 2018 22:13:01 GMT -5
I wonder where the line is drawn? If Eli had a better OL, would his performance have improved last year? I think marginally based on everything that happened last year. who was he throwing to and who was calling the plays? O line was a factor but Mac did no favors for the offense. You draw the line starting game 1 and go from there. What I will never understand is the attitude that this bad team was somehow "done to Eli". That Eli is somehow the victim. Well I have bad news for all of you. Eli was just as bad as everyone else last year. The entire team, including the QB, coaches, GM and ownership, .......... did this to us fans. WE were the victims...having to watch this putrid team last year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 0:39:50 GMT -5
Could the play calling, the terrible tackles, no run game and no name receivers have lead to a down year by a qb?
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Jun 13, 2018 5:51:33 GMT -5
Could the play calling, the terrible tackles, no run game and no name receivers have lead to a down year by a qb? I'm pretty sure what name receivers are or not out there, has nothing to do with it.
|
|
Eazy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by Eazy E on Jun 13, 2018 5:54:12 GMT -5
Last year was the worst year and feeling ever. I just care about playing great defense, controlling the clock on offense, running the ball down peoples throats, imposing our will on other teams, keeping the drama out of the locker room, and playing smart at the QB position. If this new regime can change what happened last year then im all for it. Eli is still one of the top 5 smartest QBs in this league and if we can find our way to the playoffs in the next 2 years with the other phases in positive motion. Im all in with game managing Eli.
|
|
Eazy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by Eazy E on Jun 13, 2018 6:10:29 GMT -5
Offensive lines are a must in this game and has been proven time and time again. What is the avg career span for a mobile QB? This seems like its just a reason to not have a good OL. Great Olineman are whats becoming extinct. And it seems like it all starts at the college level. Same thing has happened in the NBA. People are marveled at explosive NBA offenses. What about playing freakin hard a$$ defense. Its atrocious. These guys are playing matador defenses night in and night out. Steph Curry would not survive a past Knicks defense, Detroit defense, Boston defense, Lakers defense, Indiana defense, etc. Again I go back to the college level. Defenses are going extinct at the college level along with the 1 and done crap.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 6:26:19 GMT -5
Could the play calling, the terrible tackles, no run game and no name receivers have lead to a down year by a qb? I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 6:30:02 GMT -5
What I will never understand is the attitude that this bad team was somehow "done to Eli". That Eli is somehow the victim. Well I have bad news for all of you. Eli was just as bad as everyone else last year. The entire team, including the QB, coaches, GM and ownership, .......... did this to us fans. WE were the victims...having to watch this putrid team last year. Eli being the face of the franchise and the QB gets too much blame and too much credit ,things weren't done to Eli but more so were done to the team.The O line was neglected as were positions on defense that the FO thought they could fill with inferior(cheaper/money wise) players.The front office brought in to many projects in MHO. You keep focusing on "blame". Not sure where that comes from. I "blame" Eli for his poor play, just as I would blame any player for the same if they are playing badly. Ultimately, each player has to be accountable for their own play.. I hear posters here "blaming" everything on everyone except the QB....for HIS play. Seems a silly exercise to me.
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Jun 13, 2018 6:33:55 GMT -5
Could the play calling, the terrible tackles, no run game and no name receivers have lead to a down year by a qb? I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability. Let’s see what happens this year.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 7:31:55 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability. Of course you do, it's easy for you,it fits your narrative. I believe in it all so ,the reason Eli was not productive .......the team around him stunk. See a simple explanation but once investigated and you see why the team stunk was , injuries ,a bad O line , no receivers ,no running game, things become not so clear or in your case simple. OK...What am I supposedly blaming him for other than his own play? And yes...the team around him stunk....So did he.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 8:14:05 GMT -5
who was he throwing to and who was calling the plays? O line was a factor but Mac did no favors for the offense. You draw the line starting game 1 and go from there. What I will never understand is the attitude that this bad team was somehow "done to Eli". That Eli is somehow the victim. Well I have bad news for all of you. Eli was just as bad as everyone else last year. The entire team, including the QB, coaches, GM and ownership, .......... did this to us fans. WE were the victims...having to watch this putrid team last year. This is a thread about Eli so of course the discussion is around him. If you want to make a thread about how Reese did his RB no favors for the last half decade you're more than free. You can make an argument but then again where are all the RB we had since David Wilson? Are they still in the NFL? Just this year DG didn't bring back 2/3 of the RB from last year and they can't get a job. A competent GM would've built pieces around the QB. Reese failed him.
|
|