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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 8:26:14 GMT -5
OK...What am I supposedly blaming him for other than his own play? And yes...the team around him stunk....So did he. Spinning will not get you out of the hole you have dug. Majority of your post's are anti Eli ,consistently attacking his poor play without acknowledging the poor play of anyone else or God forbid maybe an explanation for Eli's poor play.Your posting alludes to Eli being the problem,not part of the problem..."the" problem. I am perfectly fine with you falling back on every excuse in the book. There a really too many to list in one post. I've heard them all. And if that's the way you need to see it then that is fine with me. As I said...I tend to dislike excuses. But that's me. I'm pretty sure Eli feels the same way. But his apologists are always there to make it all OK. It's the balance of life really..
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 8:27:37 GMT -5
What I will never understand is the attitude that this bad team was somehow "done to Eli". That Eli is somehow the victim. Well I have bad news for all of you. Eli was just as bad as everyone else last year. The entire team, including the QB, coaches, GM and ownership, .......... did this to us fans. WE were the victims...having to watch this putrid team last year. This is a thread about Eli so of course the discussion is around him. If you want to make a thread about how Reese did his RB no favors for the last half decade you're more than free. You can make an argument but then again where are all the RB we had since David Wilson? Are they still in the NFL? Just this year DG didn't bring back 2/3 of the RB from last year and they can't get a job. A competent GM would've built pieces around the QB. Reese failed him. JR has a lot of culpability. As does John Mara..as does Ben McAdoo and Tom Coughlin before him. As do the players. Unlike some posters...I don't let anyone off the hook. And it wasn't Eli who was "failed". It was us.
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Post by jimmieray on Jun 13, 2018 8:41:20 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure what name receivers are or not out there, has nothing to do with it. No, since many if not all the routes the NYG receivers were running last season were timing routs ,yes the top receivers on your team needed to be on the field to have that connect with the QB. "Top" receivers, meaning players that get first team reps and thus familiarity with their QB and offensive scheme. "Names" are just names, at the receiver position.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 13, 2018 9:58:49 GMT -5
Could the play calling, the terrible tackles, no run game and no name receivers have lead to a down year by a qb? I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability. If what you say is true, then we should expect to see the same Eli we saw last year, unless it's your position that he will get better this year.
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Post by jimmieray on Jun 13, 2018 10:54:39 GMT -5
"Top" receivers, meaning players that get first team reps and thus familiarity with their QB and offensive scheme. "Names" are just names, at the receiver position. ...LOl, not good spin at all. Bottom line: I don't believe any issues with Manning or our team's offense in the last 5 years have anything to do with the general stock of receivers he has been given.
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Post by GameTime on Jun 13, 2018 12:11:04 GMT -5
Could the play calling, the terrible tackles, no run game and no name receivers have lead to a down year by a qb? I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability.er Well you can’t over simplify things either. While Eli had his own brand of poor play he certainly had to deal with the crappy play of much of his surrounding cast as well. I hold him accountable for his own performance but you still have see the big picture.
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Post by EliQB10 on Jun 13, 2018 12:21:25 GMT -5
I think they did waste some of Eli's years by letting the OL deteriorate for an immobile QB.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 12:27:29 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability. If what you say is true, then we should expect to see the same Eli we saw last year, unless it's your position that he will get better this year. I expect him to function better this year...just s I would expect Mark Sanchez to function better with more weapons. But Eli is simply what he is anymore. A guy who needs huge talent around him to have any success at all. he has no ability to pick a team up. We saw that last year. I accept it. Many folks here seem to NEED to think that Eli is still some great QB. Makes no sense to me.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 12:31:13 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability.er Well you can’t over simplify things either. While Eli had his own brand of poor play he certainly had to deal with the crappy play of much of his surrounding cast as well. I hold him accountable for his own performance but you still have see the big picture. There is truth in this. the reason he is so effected by the play around him is that he is, at best an ordinary QB anymore. That certainly has not always been true. He has been a far better than average QB. I would say a very good QB at times. Now he's not. If folks want to say he's average that's fine with me. I would say he is somewhere around the 20th best QB in the league. That math would suggest a slightly less than average QB. But it's a silly argument at that point.
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Post by Roswell on Jun 13, 2018 12:40:15 GMT -5
Well you can’t over simplify things either. While Eli had his own brand of poor play he certainly had to deal with the crappy play of much of his surrounding cast as well. I hold him accountable for his own performance but you still have see the big picture. There is truth in this. the reason he is so effected by the play around him is that he is, at best an ordinary QB anymore. That certainly has not always been true. He has been a far better than average QB. I would say a very good QB at times. Now he's not. If folks want to say he's average that's fine with me. I would say he is somewhere around the 20th best QB in the league. That math would suggest a slightly less than average QB. But it's a silly argument at that point. . Your argument is fair to make. And most objective people would agree that this year, with an improved line and what should be a cast of game breakers, we will have an answer to whether it was diminishing skills or a diminished supporting cast.
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Jun 13, 2018 12:43:25 GMT -5
Eli is one of the most coddled players in the NFL. I'm sick of it always being about him. I love his class and him as a person but he's been downright awful at times. To be honest he's lucky he's still in the league after his 40 turnover season under Gilbride.
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Byron
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Post by Byron on Jun 13, 2018 12:44:28 GMT -5
If what you say is true, then we should expect to see the same Eli we saw last year, unless it's your position that he will get better this year. I expect him to function better this year...just s I would expect Mark Sanchez to function better with more weapons. But Eli is simply what he is anymore. A guy who needs huge talent around him to have any success at all. he has no ability to pick a team up. We saw that last year. I accept it. Many folks here seem to NEED to think that Eli is still some great QB. Makes no sense to me. he shits the bed this year I'll be ready to move on from him ... not everybody agrees with the way I see things either and what's wrong with them needing to think or do anything and why does it have to make sense to you ? just wondering
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 12:59:41 GMT -5
Well you can’t over simplify things either. While Eli had his own brand of poor play he certainly had to deal with the crappy play of much of his surrounding cast as well. I hold him accountable for his own performance but you still have see the big picture. There is truth in this. the reason he is so effected by the play around him is that he is, at best an ordinary QB anymore. That certainly has not always been true. He has been a far better than average QB. I would say a very good QB at times. Now he's not. If folks want to say he's average that's fine with me. I would say he is somewhere around the 20th best QB in the league. That math would suggest a slightly less than average QB. But it's a silly argument at that point. Sounds like you have a pretty long list of excuses already saved for when Eli has an outstanding year.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 12:59:47 GMT -5
OK...What am I supposedly blaming him for other than his own play? And yes...the team around him stunk....So did he. Spinning will not get you out of the hole you have dug. Majority of your post's are anti Eli ,consistently attacking his poor play without acknowledging the poor play of anyone else or God forbid maybe an explanation for Eli's poor play.Your posting alludes to Eli being the problem,not part of the problem..."the" problem. Well then let me be clear. If I were to "blame" anyone or anything for our inept teams over the past 5 years it would be our crappy DC and the non existent pass rush. Steve Spagnuolo rested on his laurels of days gone by while he was failing this team with his outdated schemes and inability to get much of anything from his players. So, as I said last year during the season...the biggest problem with our team was our crappy defense and especially our bad pass rush. And as I said the day Spagnuolo was retained by Ben McAdoo, he was making a HUGE mistake by keeping that guy. Nice guy......but probably the worst coach in the NFL, in any capacity over the past 10 years.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 13:02:46 GMT -5
There is truth in this. the reason he is so effected by the play around him is that he is, at best an ordinary QB anymore. That certainly has not always been true. He has been a far better than average QB. I would say a very good QB at times. Now he's not. If folks want to say he's average that's fine with me. I would say he is somewhere around the 20th best QB in the league. That math would suggest a slightly less than average QB. But it's a silly argument at that point. Sounds like you have a pretty long list of excuses already saved for when Eli has an outstanding year. Excuses for a good season? That doesn't even make sense.
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Post by GameTime on Jun 13, 2018 13:13:24 GMT -5
Well you can’t over simplify things either. While Eli had his own brand of poor play he certainly had to deal with the crappy play of much of his surrounding cast as well. I hold him accountable for his own performance but you still have see the big picture. There is truth in this. the reason he is so effected by the play around him is that he is, at best an ordinary QB anymore. That certainly has not always been true. He has been a far better than average QB. I would say a very good QB at times. Now he's not. If folks want to say he's average that's fine with me. I would say he is somewhere around the 20th best QB in the league. That math would suggest a slightly less than average QB. But it's a silly argument at that point. I would tend to agree about his level profiency but I also feel that if things get better around him he will have better success. Meaning he will perform better than “ordinary”.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 13:42:17 GMT -5
There is truth in this. the reason he is so effected by the play around him is that he is, at best an ordinary QB anymore. That certainly has not always been true. He has been a far better than average QB. I would say a very good QB at times. Now he's not. If folks want to say he's average that's fine with me. I would say he is somewhere around the 20th best QB in the league. That math would suggest a slightly less than average QB. But it's a silly argument at that point. I would tend to agree about his level profiency but I also feel that if things get better around him he will have better success. Meaning he will perform better than “ordinary”. Let's face it...the real definition of ordinary IS Eli. Just ask his followers. they will tell you that Eli can't succeed unless he has all the tools around him. Eli will function well if the rest of the players do. Eli will suck if the rest of the team does. He can't lift them up and he won't drag them down. Eli basically takes on the flavor of the team around him. Eli Manning is essentially the tofu of NFL QB's.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 14:06:48 GMT -5
I expect him to function better this year...just s I would expect Mark Sanchez to function better with more weapons. But Eli is simply what he is anymore. A guy who needs huge talent around him to have any success at all. he has no ability to pick a team up. We saw that last year. I accept it. Many folks here seem to NEED to think that Eli is still some great QB. Makes no sense to me. Obviously you don't accept it ,your sarcastic post prove's it.Still looking for the post someone said Eli was great , can you help us with that? You misunderstand me my friend. I have always accepted Eli with all his strengths and weaknesses. My problem has always been with the folks who need him to be some kind of all time great. Eli has helped us win 2 SB's. I am eternally grateful for that. But I get what he is. He has been a very good QB in this league, but never a great one. Not even close as far as I'm concerned. And I am actually really curious that you seem to care about what I do and don't accept. I don't understand that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 14:32:43 GMT -5
Obviously you don't accept it ,your sarcastic post prove's it.Still looking for the post someone said Eli was great , can you help us with that? You misunderstand me my friend. I have always accepted Eli with all his strengths and weaknesses. My problem has always been with the folks who need him to be some kind of all time great. Eli has helped us win 2 SB's. I am eternally grateful for that. But I get what he is. He has been a very good QB in this league, but never a great one. Not even close as far as I'm concerned. And I am actually really curious that you seem to care about what I do and don't accept. I don't understand that. I agree with your assessment of Eli and his win loss record confirms it... I can't believe how many people are misunderstanding you.. It's getting very comical to see their responses and how they twist your words to fit their agenda to confront you...
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 13, 2018 14:42:50 GMT -5
Excuses for a good season? That doesn't even make sense. It does if the person is an avid Eli basher and refuse's to even acknowledge when he plays well, ever. You obviously were on the other MB so you should know that I gave Eli great credit for playing well in the GB playoff game.
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nyer
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Post by nyer on Jun 13, 2018 14:59:21 GMT -5
Eli needs, Eli needs! Gimme a break!! The Giants NEED a QB and Elisha ain’t it! The old man can’t succeed w/o his star player making circus catches and putting his body on the line. His accuracy has never been consistent but it’s been consistently BAD the last cpl yrs (oline, right?) and worst yet, he’s got those happy feet that aren’t just gonna magically go away with more time in the pocket. He’s 38 yrs old and Mara is hopefully smarter than the avg Eli Homer and is not really trying to win now but more importantly find Elis replacement. If all goes well, they will and Elisha can be shown the door by seasons end.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 13, 2018 15:26:18 GMT -5
Eli is one of the most coddled players in the NFL. I'm sick of it always being about him. I love his class and him as a person but he's been downright awful at times. To be honest he's lucky he's still in the league after his 40 turnover season under Gilbride. Good to see you Harooni.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 15:49:29 GMT -5
Sounds like you have a pretty long list of excuses already saved for when Eli has an outstanding year. Excuses for a good season? That doesn't even make sense. Of course it does. If he puts up 35 TD next year and protects the football you will look for any excuse not to give him credit. You did it in 14 and 15 so 18 will be no different.
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Post by snyder55 on Jun 13, 2018 15:52:52 GMT -5
I would tend to agree about his level profiency but I also feel that if things get better around him he will have better success. Meaning he will perform better than “ordinary”. Let's face it...the real definition of ordinary IS Eli. Just ask his followers. they will tell you that Eli can't succeed unless he has all the tools around him. Eli will function well if the rest of the players do. Eli will suck if the rest of the team does. He can't lift them up and he won't drag them down. Eli basically takes on the flavor of the team around him. Eli Manning is essentially the tofu of NFL QB's. one of the things I loved about Joe Montana was his ability to make things happen when the rest of his team was dragging their butts and then he seemed to lift them up, not so with Eli, he seems to play down to the level of the rest of his team...
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Post by snyder55 on Jun 13, 2018 16:03:36 GMT -5
I think if anybody has any questions about where the big problem was with this team just take a look at the what Dave Gettleman has accomplished so far with this team. I know we haven't played a game yet but I've seen enough football to know that we now have a far better team than we've had in years. We have just been the victim of an inept GM in Jerry Reese who seemed to be held in high esteem with the owners and kept his job too long based on the fondness of the owners toward him. It could be that other teams have the same feeling about him since he is no longer working in the NFL...
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Post by Speedman on Jun 13, 2018 17:05:53 GMT -5
A lot of people in this thread are going to be crying when Eli plays really well this year. They will say that he needed a decent OL, running game and better than practice squad receivers. The same holds true for any QB.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 13, 2018 17:31:16 GMT -5
If he plays well everyone on this board wins, even those who are down on him now. If he plays well and your biggest concern is eating some message board crow it's probably time to reassess your fanhood.
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Jun 13, 2018 17:32:41 GMT -5
Eli is one of the most coddled players in the NFL. I'm sick of it always being about him. I love his class and him as a person but he's been downright awful at times. To be honest he's lucky he's still in the league after his 40 turnover season under Gilbride. Good to see you Harooni. Unfortunately I remember reading Harooni retired from posting. He always had the best Eli gifs. We shared a love for Tiki and enjoyed critiquing Eli. I was a little bit late on that train though, I used to be one of Eli's biggest defenders. Eli's 2011 season is still legendary. I wish that season wasn't an anomoly for Eli.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 13, 2018 18:28:39 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor.......The simplest explanation is usually correct one. The reason Eli is not productive is because he's not playing well,.....and that play is a product of his current ability. If what you say is true, then we should expect to see the same Eli we saw last year, unless it's your position that he will get better this year. I guess it depends. I figured Rivers was done when he sucked 5/6 years ago, then they rebuilt the team around him, he won comeback player of the year (another team award given to an individual, like league MVP and SB MVP) in 2013 and the team managed a couple of decent seasons. I watched Brees throw a dart right into a defenders gut on the last play of the last day of the season a couple of years ago, sealing a no playoff season for the Saints. And then I watched the Saints suck, not make the playoffs and then rebuild their defense and running game to get back to the playoffs last year. Shockingly, his numbers and much more importantly his results have improved as a consequence. As far as Manning is concerned, I hesitate to say this since everyone else seems so certain, but I just don’t know if he’s done or not. He might be. Crap, any of those old QBs can be done at any moment. But given the volatility just described over the past few years, I just don’t know the answer as far as Manning is concerned.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 13, 2018 18:34:32 GMT -5
If what you say is true, then we should expect to see the same Eli we saw last year, unless it's your position that he will get better this year. I expect him to function better this year...just s I would expect Mark Sanchez to function better with more weapons. But Eli is simply what he is anymore. A guy who needs huge talent around him to have any success at all. he has no ability to pick a team up. We saw that last year. I accept it. Many folks here seem to NEED to think that Eli is still some great QB. Makes no sense to me. Agreed.
If we can get 10 Pro bowlers on offense to play along side Eli...really get some top notch coaching and play calling, Eli might play as well as Mark Sanchez.
We can all hope!
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