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Post by ThatGuyRich on Aug 19, 2018 12:25:09 GMT -5
Yea but TE letting Cockrell go is all on Gettlemen. Stewart isn't responsible for that. Gettlemen knew Stewart he didn't know Cockrell, it was a mistake letting Cockrell go but at the time we didn't have a RB we felt we could count on.
Beside Stewart Gallman is a 2nd year back and the others I believe are all rookies. Lets see how it breaks these last 2 pre season games. The first game vs Jags defense is some tough treading.
It's all on reese actually, no? I mean why give up a draft pick for a guy with only 1 year left on his contract? why did JR not do an extension? for all we know cochrell wanted the heck out of NY. can u blame him after last year. can't blame the gettlemonster for JR's mess up. Could be very true. After last year maybe if you could get out you jump at it. So I guess a lot of you are still complaining about Cockrell not coming back. This really has nothing to do with Stewart. If the Giants wanted another 6.6 million to sign Cockrell they would have come up with it. Especially early in FA.
If you didn't like the Stewart signing that's fine, I also wasn't overwhelmed with it either. But at the time he might have been the starting RB. Darkwa was gone, Perkins had crashed and burned, and Gallman hadn't proved anything to anybody, especially after Perkins showed flashes of potential his rookie year and failed. We had nobody that could run inside.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 12:50:46 GMT -5
It's all on reese actually, no? I mean why give up a draft pick for a guy with only 1 year left on his contract? why did JR not do an extension? for all we know cochrell wanted the heck out of NY. can u blame him after last year. can't blame the gettlemonster for JR's mess up. Could be very true. After last year maybe if you could get out you jump at it. So I guess a lot of you are still complaining about Cockrell not coming back. This really has nothing to do with Stewart. If the Giants wanted another 6.6 million to sign Cockrell they would have come up with it. Especially early in FA.
If you didn't like the Stewart signing that's fine, I also wasn't overwhelmed with it either. But at the time he might have been the starting RB. Darkwa was gone, Perkins had crashed and burned, and Gallman hadn't proved anything to anybody, especially after Perkins showed flashes of potential his rookie year and failed. We had nobody that could run inside.
"Gallman hadn't proved anything to anybody" This simply isn't true. Both he and Darkwa ran very well behind a suspect line. Comparing Gallman to Perkins just doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 13:01:02 GMT -5
Could be very true. After last year maybe if you could get out you jump at it. So I guess a lot of you are still complaining about Cockrell not coming back. This really has nothing to do with Stewart. If the Giants wanted another 6.6 million to sign Cockrell they would have come up with it. Especially early in FA.
If you didn't like the Stewart signing that's fine, I also wasn't overwhelmed with it either. But at the time he might have been the starting RB. Darkwa was gone, Perkins had crashed and burned, and Gallman hadn't proved anything to anybody, especially after Perkins showed flashes of potential his rookie year and failed. We had nobody that could run inside.
"Gallman hadn't proved anything to anybody" This simply isn't true. Both he and Darkwa ran very well behind a suspect line. Comparing Gallman to Perkins just doesn't make a lot of sense. So did Perkins in 2016 ( the same O- line). I don't get your point. A # 1 back is going to be key on when in the game. A secondary back may be perceived as a decoy. The difference between the guy and his subordinate; A Number 1 can still produce when the D knows he is getting the ball. Gallman has yet to prove that. You are making an assumption he can. The Gm can not make that assumption. I am not saying he can't . He has yet to prove it.
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Aug 19, 2018 13:09:56 GMT -5
Cockrell is on IR, Stewart is still playing. Are you suggesting if we kept him he would have suffered the same injury? Very possible. Depends on how strong the bones are in his leg.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 13:15:28 GMT -5
"Gallman hadn't proved anything to anybody" This simply isn't true. Both he and Darkwa ran very well behind a suspect line. Comparing Gallman to Perkins just doesn't make a lot of sense. So did Perkins in 2016 ( the same O- line). I don't get your point. A # 1 back is going to be key on when in the game. A secondary back may be perceived as a decoy. The difference between the guy and his subordinate; A Number 1 can still produce when the D knows he is getting the ball. Gallman has yet to prove that. You are making an assumption he can. The Gm can not make that assumption. I am not saying he can't . He has yet to prove it. Look, it's simple. Perkins should not be standard used to decide if another RB has worth. That's just plain ridiculous. You are defending the new GM. I get it.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 13:24:20 GMT -5
So did Perkins in 2016 ( the same O- line). I don't get your point. A # 1 back is going to be key on when in the game. A secondary back may be perceived as a decoy. The difference between the guy and his subordinate; A Number 1 can still produce when the D knows he is getting the ball. Gallman has yet to prove that. You are making an assumption he can. The Gm can not make that assumption. I am not saying he can't . He has yet to prove it. Look, it's simple. Perkins should not be standard used to decide if another RB has worth. That's just plain ridiculous. You are defending the new GM. I get it. That is not factual Perkins looked good in 2015 behind Jennings. In fact I remember the Old board clamoring for him to start over Rashad. It was not proven he could be a #1. He was thrust into the position last year. . The outcome was bad. I see no difference between trying to suggest Gallmen could be. Do not make this about the GM. He looked at situation he had. Gallman and an injured Perkins and his cap space . He made a qualitative decision on the information he had.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 13:24:55 GMT -5
Look, it's simple. Perkins should not be standard used to decide if another RB has worth. That's just plain ridiculous. You are defending the new GM. I get it. That is not factual Perkins looked good in 2015 behind Jennings. In fact I remember the Old board clamoring for him to start over Rashad. It was not proven he could be a #1. last year he was thrust into the position . The outcome was bad. I see no difference between trying to suggest Gallmen could be, Do not make this about the GM. He looked at situation he had. Gallman and an injured Perkins and his cap space . He made a qualitative decision on the information he had. Fans can assume a 4th round pick can be "the guy" GMs can not .They are not afforded that luxury.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 13:35:14 GMT -5
Look, it's simple. Perkins should not be standard used to decide if another RB has worth. That's just plain ridiculous. You are defending the new GM. I get it. That is not factual Perkins looked good in 2015 behind Jennings. In fact I remember the Old board clamoring for him to start over Rashad. It was not proven he could be a #1. He was thrust into the position last year. . The outcome was bad. I see no difference between trying to suggest Gallmen could be. Do not make this about the GM. He looked at situation he had. Gallman and an injured Perkins and his cap space . He made a qualitative decision on the information he had. " Do not make this about the GM." I can me this about whatever I want, just as you are doing. You believe my assessment is wrong and I believe you are defending a bad decision by the GM. I'm going to leave it at that and not respond any further.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2018 13:37:28 GMT -5
It’s so funny reading the comments on here from people knocking the signing. Darkwa was a FA and hurt and Perkins was injured as well. They only had 1 decent RB on the team at the time of the signing. The Giants needed a RB and there was no guarantee of drafting Barkley. Now that we took Barkley it’s easy to say this was a wasted signing and just push him further back the depth chart. He may come in handy in PS’ offense. We don’t know exactly how it’ll play out. We do know if Mac was this HC, we would be seeing the same garbage schemes over and over again. But I expect PS to utilize his RB and somehow find a way to make Stewart an asset. Those were the only options?
Demarco Murray was out there. Many RB's were available who were a hell of a lot better than Stewart.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 13:50:35 GMT -5
That is not factual Perkins looked good in 2015 behind Jennings. In fact I remember the Old board clamoring for him to start over Rashad. It was not proven he could be a #1. He was thrust into the position last year. . The outcome was bad. I see no difference between trying to suggest Gallmen could be. Do not make this about the GM. He looked at situation he had. Gallman and an injured Perkins and his cap space . He made a qualitative decision on the information he had. " Do not make this about the GM." I can me this about whatever I want, just as you are doing. You believe my assessment is wrong and I believe you are defending a bad decision by the GM. I'm going to leave it at that and not respond any further. After 2 pre-season games this is what you posted. All you have done is make it about the GM The GM : A) made a bad trade for Ogletree B) made a bad signing with Stewart We have not played a single meaningful game. You could not wait for the 3rd or 4th week of the season to draw a conclusion? . I don't get some of you guys. The Giants are showing a marked improvement over what they were this time last season. Yet some still find reasons to justify their own personal beliefs, that it should be the way they wanted it and anything else is wrong. Some of this stuff is comical.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 13:51:14 GMT -5
It’s so funny reading the comments on here from people knocking the signing. Darkwa was a FA and hurt and Perkins was injured as well. They only had 1 decent RB on the team at the time of the signing. The Giants needed a RB and there was no guarantee of drafting Barkley. Now that we took Barkley it’s easy to say this was a wasted signing and just push him further back the depth chart. He may come in handy in PS’ offense. We don’t know exactly how it’ll play out. We do know if Mac was this HC, we would be seeing the same garbage schemes over and over again. But I expect PS to utilize his RB and somehow find a way to make Stewart an asset. Those were the only options?
Demarco Murray was out there. Many RB's were available who were a hell of a lot better than Stewart.
Didn't he retire?
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2018 14:03:06 GMT -5
Those were the only options?
Demarco Murray was out there. Many RB's were available who were a hell of a lot better than Stewart.
Didn't he retire? Because he wasn't signed. Old RB's are a dime a dozen. Signing Stewart was so dumb. I just don't get it except that Gettleman obviously knew him from Carolina. Point is that 31 year old RB's who are that slow aren't insurance for anything. It was just a bad signing.
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Post by Nick6475 on Aug 19, 2018 14:19:12 GMT -5
" Do not make this about the GM." I can me this about whatever I want, just as you are doing. You believe my assessment is wrong and I believe you are defending a bad decision by the GM. I'm going to leave it at that and not respond any further. After 2 pre-season games this is what you posted. All you have done is make it about the GM The GM : A) made a bad trade for Ogletree B) made a bad signing with Stewart We have not played a single meaningful game. You could not wait for the 3rd or 4th week of the season to draw a conclusion? . I don't get some of you guys. The Giants are showing a marked improvement over what they were this time last season. Yet some still find reasons to justify their own personal beliefs, that it should be the way they wanted it and anything else is wrong. Some of this stuff is comical. The Giants may be showing improvement, but it is certainly not because Stewart is on the roster and he hasn't shown and improvement over his last year so far.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 15:16:17 GMT -5
Because he wasn't signed. Old RB's are a dime a dozen. Signing Stewart was so dumb. I just don't get it except that Gettleman obviously knew him from Carolina. Point is that 31 year old RB's who are that slow aren't insurance for anything. It was just a bad signing.
If you say so . My opinion is different. At the time it was a move that was logical.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 15:20:07 GMT -5
After 2 pre-season games this is what you posted. All you have done is make it about the GM The GM : A) made a bad trade for Ogletree am sorry I do not see the logic of making a judgment on any player after 2 preseason games. B) made a bad signing with Stewart We have not played a single meaningful game. You could not wait for the 3rd or 4th week of the season to draw a conclusion? . I don't get some of you guys. The Giants are showing a marked improvement over what they were this time last season. Yet some still find reasons to justify their own personal beliefs, that it should be the way they wanted it and anything else is wrong. Some of this stuff is comical. The Giants may be showing improvement, but it is certainly not because Stewart is on the roster and he hasn't shown and improvement over his last year so far. I am sorry I do not see the logic of making a judgment on a player signing after 2 preseason games.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2018 19:27:20 GMT -5
Because he wasn't signed. Old RB's are a dime a dozen. Signing Stewart was so dumb. I just don't get it except that Gettleman obviously knew him from Carolina. Point is that 31 year old RB's who are that slow aren't insurance for anything. It was just a bad signing.
If you say so . My opinion is different. At the time it was a move that was logical. You think he can still play? Based on what?
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2018 20:00:59 GMT -5
If you say so . My opinion is different. At the time it was a move that was logical. So I take very li\ You think he can still play? Based on what?
We are on different mindsets on the subject . Go back and read my posts. I explained my rational why it was good at the time. If you don't agree with my viewpoint . So be it. I understand you have an agenda. Why I take what you say with a grain of salt.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2018 6:15:54 GMT -5
You think he can still play? Based on what?
We are on different mindsets on the subject . Go back and read my posts. I explained my rational why it was good at the time. If you don't agree with my viewpoint . So be it. I understand you have an agenda. Why I take what you say with a grain of salt. I'd be very interested in hearing what my agenda is regarding James Stewart...except that he's old and slow.....which are both empirical facts.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 20, 2018 6:21:39 GMT -5
That Stewart contract might very well cost the Giants a shot at signing Iloka. A guy they could really use to lockdown the TE. But I just read they are going to move Armstrong up and into a coverage role in nickel packages hopefully freeing Ogletree to do what he’s good at, blitzing the QB.
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Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2018 6:26:59 GMT -5
We are on different mindsets on the subject . Go back and read my posts. I explained my rational why it was good at the time. If you don't agree with my viewpoint . So be it. I understand you have an agenda. Why I take what you say with a grain of salt. I'd be very interested in hearing what my agenda is regarding James Stewart...except that he's old and slow.....which are both empirical facts. James Stewart was a good actor, and he passed away in 97. So yea it is a empirical fact considering his state of wellbeing, him be old and slow. Why would have an agenda against him, Was he an Eli fan?
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2018 6:32:05 GMT -5
I'd be very interested in hearing what my agenda is regarding James Stewart...except that he's old and slow.....which are both empirical facts. James Stewart was a good actor, and he passed away in 97. So yea it is a empirical fact considering his state of wellbeing, him be old and slow. Why would have an agenda against him, Was he an Eli fan? Well he IS old and you can't get much slower....wouldn't you agree?
FYI...There WAS a "James" Stewart who was a good RB in the NFL for Jax and Detroit.
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Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2018 6:37:07 GMT -5
James Stewart was a good actor, and he passed away in 97. So yea it is a empirical fact considering his state of wellbeing, him be old and slow. Why would have an agenda against him, Was he an Eli fan? Well he IS old and you can't get much slower....wouldn't you agree?
FYI...There WAS a "James" Stewart who was a good RB in the NFL for Jax and Detroit.
He has been underground for 20 years , so I would agree there is not a lot of motion with him. it's a wonderful life, is a classic. Have you seen it? is James Stewart the RB that played for Jax and Detroit. old and slow. I don't l know. Are you saying all with the last name Stewart are old and slow?
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2018 6:44:44 GMT -5
Well he IS old and you can't get much slower....wouldn't you agree?
FYI...There WAS a "James" Stewart who was a good RB in the NFL for Jax and Detroit.
He has been underground for 20 years , so I would agree there is not a lot of motion with him. it's a wonderful life, is a classic. Have you seen it? Everybody has.
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BigBlue58
Special Teams
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Post by BigBlue58 on Aug 20, 2018 8:26:59 GMT -5
Once Stewart gets going in the regular season , you detractors are gonna change your minds! You can’t write a guy off as a bum after just a few preseason touches when he was so clutch as a role player last season. He’s good for depth and he’s no slouch as a blocking back. What about his numbers from last year makes you feel he can run the ball effectively??? Like everyone has been saying great pick up for vets minimum but terrible at the price he was signed for and besides the blocking all the other backs have looked better... As a role player last year, he had five 100 yard games! How can anyone say he’s terrible when he hasn’t played a single down of football that counts for the Giants. Call me crazy, but I tend to judge a player on what he’s actually doing or not doing at the time he’s actually doing it! I’ll concede that Stewart is “done” , only when it’s proven in action that counts. Then I’ll eat my crow with relish!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 8:34:37 GMT -5
What about his numbers from last year makes you feel he can run the ball effectively??? Like everyone has been saying great pick up for vets minimum but terrible at the price he was signed for and besides the blocking all the other backs have looked better... As a role player last year, he had five 100 yard games! How can anyone say he’s terrible when he hasn’t played a single down of football that counts for the Giants. Call me crazy, but I tend to judge a player on what he’s actually doing or not doing at the time he’s actually doing it! I’ll concede that Stewart is “done” , only when it’s proven in action that counts. Then I’ll eat my crow with relish! Thanks for the response but please tell me where I said he was "terrible" or "done"??? I did say he would be a great pick up at vets minimum pay and that every back in camp has out performed him...
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2018 8:46:29 GMT -5
What about his numbers from last year makes you feel he can run the ball effectively??? Like everyone has been saying great pick up for vets minimum but terrible at the price he was signed for and besides the blocking all the other backs have looked better... As a role player last year, he had five 100 yard games! How can anyone say he’s terrible when he hasn’t played a single down of football that counts for the Giants. Call me crazy, but I tend to judge a player on what he’s actually doing or not doing at the time he’s actually doing it! I’ll concede that Stewart is “done” , only when it’s proven in action that counts. Then I’ll eat my crow with relish! As I said before...Is he going to get less slow and less old between now and week one? He is third best on this team and that's generous. If you're a third RB you need to be a good contributor on special teams. I doubt he will be.
Veteran RB's really need to have a big impact on the offense or they are a waist of money. I'm sorry...it's just true.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 8:49:29 GMT -5
As a role player last year, he had five 100 yard games! How can anyone say he’s terrible when he hasn’t played a single down of football that counts for the Giants. Call me crazy, but I tend to judge a player on what he’s actually doing or not doing at the time he’s actually doing it! I’ll concede that Stewart is “done” , only when it’s proven in action that counts. Then I’ll eat my crow with relish! Thanks for the response but please tell me where I said he was "terrible" or "done" I did say he would be a great pick up at vets minimum pay and that every back in camp has out performed him... "every back in camp has out performed him" By a mile. He looks old and slow and this shouldn't surprise anyone at this point in his career. DG signed him because he knows him and thought maybe he could help. However, for a team that didn't have a lot of cap space to play around with, this was not a smart signing.
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Post by Martin on Aug 20, 2018 9:12:11 GMT -5
I'm a little bit unsure about J Stewart signing. HI think he can be huge with getting tough yds on 3rd down. He is a veteran in a very young RB core so that is important. The problem is the contract was too much but injuries do happen with RB's as they get pounded. Having him might prove to be very important as the season progresses. I will say that I like the RB unit we have. Simmons and Martin look very good and there will be a tough choice on which makes the team. Very easy choice. cut stewart. LOL I didn't know you can cut a player with a 2 yr contract.
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Post by Martin on Aug 20, 2018 9:19:58 GMT -5
The Giants prior to the new line set up could not run the ball consistent enough and had difficultly with 3rd and short. They sign Stewart the money might have be too much but the thought process IMO was correct. You need to move the chains on the ground and score in goal line situations. I think it will prove to be a good decision. We shall see......
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Post by jb456 on Aug 20, 2018 10:11:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the response but please tell me where I said he was "terrible" or "done" I did say he would be a great pick up at vets minimum pay and that every back in camp has out performed him... "every back in camp has out performed him" By a mile. He looks old and slow and this shouldn't surprise anyone at this point in his career. DG signed him because he knows him and thought maybe he could help. However, for a team that didn't have a lot of cap space to play around with, this was not a smart signing. I don't think anyone in their right mind can debate that Stewart has looked slow and old but let's put this signing in perspective:
1) DG brought in one of his guys to control the circus that was the Giants locker room in 2017 2) Stewart will get a little over $3 Million this year and will be cut after 2018 with a dead cap of $250K 3) If anyone wants to get upset about the Giants terrible cap situation they should look at JPP's and OV's contract. JPP's contract is costing the Giants $15 Million in dead cap this year and OV has a freaking $17 Million dollar cap hit for a run stuffing DE that is an averages 7 sacks a year. Also Ereck Flowers is making almost $5 Million and Eli Apple is making $4 Million.
In short, I can give DG a pass on the Stewart signing because it is essentially a 1 year contract and he offloaded JPP's terrible contract.
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