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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:10:22 GMT -5
Did they? It seems now that there was nothing he could do to keep from being either traded or released. It seems to me that the day Dave Gettleman was hired was the day that Davis Webb's fate was sealed.
I liked that he was given the opportunity to bounce back from the Browns, by playing with the ones against the Lions.
I also think that by drafting Lauletta, that was clearly a sign right there that they weren't sold on Davis.
They didn't even know who he was Rosie.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Sept 5, 2018 14:10:26 GMT -5
So they just gave him all of those second team reps just to cover up their true intentions? Stop it. You know how these things go. If Lauletta was dreadful or if Webb played like a star, things would have changed. But it seems the chance being given to Webb to make the team was token at best. Or maybe create a chance to make a trade, which I understand they were close to making with Oakland.
I doubt there were sinister intentions. I just think they weren't interested in Webb very much at all.
But who can argue that Alex Tanney is any kind of option at all? That is a head scratcher.
We discussed, long before this whole dog and pony show, that they did not speak about Webb the way you talk about the future leader of your team. We(and myself included) are now shocked and it's mostly because he played one decent half against the Lions. Nassib also played some solid preseason at times, but was he ever the future of this franchise? Nope. They have clearly stated what they prefer about Lauletta vs. Webb and that's all she wrote. To me it boils down to the fact that if they needed one of them to take meaningful snaps this season, Lauletta is the guy. That was probably the feeling when they drafted him. In hindsight I don't even know why I reacted with surprise or confusion when I consider the chain of events that led to this.
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 5, 2018 14:13:40 GMT -5
If everyone seems to agree that the "season would be over" if Eli goes down......and I'm sure you're all right, then this FO has failed miserably. If you are a "win now" team, you need a back up who can keep the team afloat. The Packers failed miserably last year as did the Cards etc.....
The Eagles understood the importance of a winning team having a competent back up.
You cannot seriously believe that we are actually a "win now" team, despite what we have heard from the FO. We won 3 games last year!
It's not whether or not we believe we are a 'win now' team. It's all about what the statement the Giants made in the off-season. Their moves (or non-moves) prove they are trying to win now with Eli.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Sept 5, 2018 14:21:56 GMT -5
You cannot seriously believe that we are actually a "win now" team, despite what we have heard from the FO. We won 3 games last year!
It's not whether or not we believe we are a 'win now' team. It's all about what the statement the Giants made in the off-season. Their moves (or non-moves) prove they are trying to win now with Eli.
More than any season opener I can remember, I have zero idea what to expect on Sunday. Especially when you add the fact that we are going to have to depend to some extent on brand new players just signed against the Jags.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:25:56 GMT -5
You cannot seriously believe that we are actually a "win now" team, despite what we have heard from the FO. We won 3 games last year!
It's not whether or not we believe we are a 'win now' team. It's all about what the statement the Giants made in the off-season. Their moves (or non-moves) prove they are trying to win now with Eli.
"Win now with Eli".....not sure exactly what that entails. I hope they believe they think they can "win now" with the 53 players we have.
Personally, I think we are in for a rough start this season. The schedule, new players and new schemes suggest we may struggle early.
And we are assuming we'll stay healthy. No team does.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 5, 2018 14:27:37 GMT -5
Everyone says "we won 3 games last yr" like we did it with a fully healthy roster with OBJ/Brandon Marshall/Shep healthy all yr. 2 of those guys went down for the yr in the same damn game in week 5, Shep only played 11 games due to missing 5 with injuries. So our 3 top WRs missed a total of 27 games due to injury, we had no run game, our OL sucked, our D was dysfunctional & quitting in games, 3 got suspended cuz coach menu lost the locker room probably when we lost OBJ to go to 0-5 & you all keep harping that we only won 3 games. Let's see how great Matty ice is & how many games he wins if he loses Julio Jones & whomever is his #2 WR for the yr. A healthy OBJ/Mashall/Shep all last yr & we win at minimum, 7-8 games. Remember, Eli gave our D 3 late 4th qt leads vs Philly/TB/LA & the D blew the leads. In the 2nd game vs Philly, w/o OBJ, Eli lit em up for over 400yds & 3 TDs. A healthy OBJ in that game & we beat em. Excuses are like ... everyone’s got em
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:30:01 GMT -5
Everyone says "we won 3 games last yr" like we did it with a fully healthy roster with OBJ/Brandon Marshall/Shep healthy all yr. 2 of those guys went down for the yr in the same damn game in week 5, Shep only played 11 games due to missing 5 with injuries. So our 3 top WRs missed a total of 27 games due to injury, we had no run game, our OL sucked, our D was dysfunctional & quitting in games, 3 got suspended cuz coach menu lost the locker room probably when we lost OBJ to go to 0-5 & you all keep harping that we only won 3 games. Let's see how great Matty ice is & how many games he wins if he loses Julio Jones & whomever is his #2 WR for the yr. A healthy OBJ/Mashall/Shep all last yr & we win at minimum, 7-8 games. Remember, Eli gave our D 3 late 4th qt leads vs Philly/TB/LA & the D blew the leads. In the 2nd game vs Philly, w/o OBJ, Eli lit em up for over 400yds & 3 TDs. A healthy OBJ in that game & we beat em. Excuses are like ... everyone’s got em Noses?
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Sept 5, 2018 14:32:08 GMT -5
We have 2 coaches who have developed QBs into franchise QBs. They let Webb go. Does that tell you something?
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Post by magilla on Sept 5, 2018 14:32:32 GMT -5
Everyone says "we won 3 games last yr" like we did it with a fully healthy roster with OBJ/Brandon Marshall/Shep healthy all yr. 2 of those guys went down for the yr in the same damn game in week 5, Shep only played 11 games due to missing 5 with injuries. So our 3 top WRs missed a total of 27 games due to injury, we had no run game, our OL sucked, our D was dysfunctional & quitting in games, 3 got suspended cuz coach menu lost the locker room probably when we lost OBJ to go to 0-5 & you all keep harping that we only won 3 games. Let's see how great Matty ice is & how many games he wins if he loses Julio Jones & whomever is his #2 WR for the yr. A healthy OBJ/Mashall/Shep all last yr & we win at minimum, 7-8 games. Remember, Eli gave our D 3 late 4th qt leads vs Philly/TB/LA & they D blew the leads. In the 2nd game vs Philly, w/o OBJ, Eli lit em up for over 400yds & 3 TDs. A healthy OBJ in that game & we beat em. Then why were the HC and GM fired? Why do we have completely new offensive and defensive schemes and a completely new coaching staff? Why are so many of the old players now gone off this team?
If it was just injuries.....then why make so many changes?
May I remind you of our record before Odell, Shepard and Marshall went down? It was 0-5. May I also remind you that Philly lost their all pro left tackle before the season started. they lost their #1 CB for the first half of the season. They lost their 3rd down back early. They lost their MVP candidate QB after week 13.
In other words....team's have injuries. Usually a lot of them. The NFL is a game of attrition. The worst injury a team can have is at the QB position. Ours was healthy all year and led us to a 3-13 record.
In other words, the season was already over when these devastating injuries happened.
IMO, without the injuries to NY Giants in 2017, Offense does perform better but the record would’ve probably been 5-11 or 6-10; it was more our offensive scheme that did us in than any of the injuries on Offense. Our season was over when Philly hit that 61 FG against us to win at end of game. Our Defense showed some softness out there and at a certain point it was clear they just weren’t going to play for BFatMac; our team was a mess in 2017. Getting rid of JPP was obviously a money move because he’s one of those guys on Defense that I didn’t see give up. Yes. JPP didn’t perform up to his contract but he was out there for a heck of a lot of snaps for the most part, his motor always seemed to be running. The new regime was going to gut this team all along and have made some big changes. Now, I like some of the stuff they’ve done but I still think that NY Giants could’ve taken some more time in hiring GM because the jury is still out on DG. Granted, he has made some sound decisions, bringing Ogletree, Omameh and Solder over. Drafting Saquon Barkley and Will Hernandez without hesitation. Just as he did in Carolina Panthers with Fig Newton, he’s taken care of ODB contract and locked him up as a NY Giants for the next 6 years. Being instrumental in bringing in Pay Shurmer and James Betcher. These are good things. Then we have drafting Lauretta who does in fact have an “NFL Arm” but not much of one for a cold weather windy place such as Giants Stadium. Paying Jonathan Stewart the amount that he did which it looks like he was doing a favor from one of his old players; it seems as if Saquon Barkley isn’t going to need “old dog” mentor ship as a RB because his high maturity level seems clear to me. Heck, if the reason was “mentorship” a 100K or so could’ve been paid to Brandon Jacobs to come in as an assistant RB coach and advisor. These are some of the bad things. In regard to Eli Apple, the jury is still out on that as well.Also, I feel that DG May have a little tunnel vision, which was the case at Carolina Panthers as well. From what it looks like, Davis Webb had no clue he was about to get axed and that is a cause of concern. It’s a cause of concern not from the Davis Webb side but from the coaching and FO side in that I wonder if they either strung him along or just didn’t communicate with him. Small consolation is that he already has a job and doesn’t have to move. I’m optimistic but I’m also a realist. We have a tough schedule but as I’ve stated before, there’s nothing unfair in that because if the team is good they should be able to compete. If we improve to 8-8 or 9-7 while being competittive, I’ll be happy with that; anything else is gravy.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:33:47 GMT -5
We have 2 coaches who have developed QBs into franchise QBs. They let Webb go. Does that tell you something? They picked Tanney over Webb. This makes sense to you?
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Post by GameTime on Sept 5, 2018 14:34:06 GMT -5
in their wildest dreams they did not see Foles getting it done like he did In their wildest dreams? Yes. Did they assume he would win a SB? Of course not.
Generally if a starting QB gets hurt, a good back up (which is all Foles is) should be able to keep the ship afloat. These are generally guys who have started in the league and have won games. Mark Sanchez was that guy for the Eagles a few years ago. he had won with the Jets and won some games with Philly when Vick went down, including torching us.
But that's generally when the starter isn't out for the season. If Hundley had just won half his games, then GB would have still been in it when Rodgers got back. But he was horrible.
If Eli goes down and they actually think we can be a winning team, we need a guy who can keep the ship afloat.....until he comes back in theory. Why do you think the Saints traded for Bridgewater? They are a win now team. Maybe the best team in football. If Brees goes down they know they need a guy to keep it going. Smart move actually because he could very well be the guy after Brees retires.
The fact that Alex Tanney or Kyle Lauletta (or even Davis Webb for that matter) are our back ups suggest that they are either not think we are a winning team, or are being foolish with our team.
Eehhh....still think Foles played way over his head. But hey....he had a lot of real NFL experience.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:37:04 GMT -5
In their wildest dreams? Yes. Did they assume he would win a SB? Of course not.
Generally if a starting QB gets hurt, a good back up (which is all Foles is) should be able to keep the ship afloat. These are generally guys who have started in the league and have won games. Mark Sanchez was that guy for the Eagles a few years ago. he had won with the Jets and won some games with Philly when Vick went down, including torching us.
But that's generally when the starter isn't out for the season. If Hundley had just won half his games, then GB would have still been in it when Rodgers got back. But he was horrible.
If Eli goes down and they actually think we can be a winning team, we need a guy who can keep the ship afloat.....until he comes back in theory. Why do you think the Saints traded for Bridgewater? They are a win now team. Maybe the best team in football. If Brees goes down they know they need a guy to keep it going. Smart move actually because he could very well be the guy after Brees retires.
The fact that Alex Tanney or Kyle Lauletta (or even Davis Webb for that matter) are our back ups suggest that they are either not think we are a winning team, or are being foolish with our team.
Eehhh....still think Foles played way over his head. But hey....he had a lot of real NFL experience. That is exactly what he did.
He also played lousy vs. Oakland and Dallas and then in the first playoff game vs. Atlanta.
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 5, 2018 14:38:15 GMT -5
They didn't even know who he was Rosie. Which supports the idea that he wasn't a favorite to win the back-up job.
More than any season opener I can remember, I have zero idea what to expect on Sunday. Especially when you add the fact that we are going to have to depend to some extent on brand new players just signed against the Jags. I'm expecting to see what we've seen against the Jets. I expect Eli to spread the ball around. I expect Barkley to be threat in and out of the back-field, along with 13, 87 and 88. I think our offense will be fun to watch.
Defensively I think we will be stout against the run. Against the pass I'm a bit more concerned, but I'm looking forward to an attacking style of defense.
"Win now with Eli".....not sure exactly what that entails. I hope they believe they think they can "win now" with the 53 players we have.
Personally, I think we are in for a rough start this season. The schedule, new players and new schemes suggest we may struggle early.
And we are assuming we'll stay healthy. No team does.
Injuries are key as I see it. I think we are going to surprise people - including ourselves.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 5, 2018 14:41:59 GMT -5
We have 2 coaches who have developed QBs into franchise QBs. They let Webb go. Does that tell you something? They picked Tanney over Webb. This makes sense to you?
I am willing to trust them on the Tanney v Webb call (keep in mind that they also think that Tanney is currently a better #2 than Lauletta, since Shurmur just named Tanney the #2 for Sunday’s game). I agree, though, that we should have a better #2 than Tanney.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Sept 5, 2018 14:42:00 GMT -5
They didn't even know who he was Rosie. Which supports the idea that he wasn't a favorite to win the back-up job.
More than any season opener I can remember, I have zero idea what to expect on Sunday. Especially when you add the fact that we are going to have to depend to some extent on brand new players just signed against the Jags. I'm expecting to see what we've seen against the Jets. I expect Eli to spread the ball around. I expect Barkley to be threat in and out of the back-field, along with 13, 87 and 88. I think our offense will be fun to watch.
Defensively I think we will be stout against the run. Against the pass I'm a bit more concerned, but I'm looking forward to an attacking style of defense.
"Win now with Eli".....not sure exactly what that entails. I hope they believe they think they can "win now" with the 53 players we have.
Personally, I think we are in for a rough start this season. The schedule, new players and new schemes suggest we may struggle early.
And we are assuming we'll stay healthy. No team does.
Injuries are key as I see it. I think we are going to surprise people - including ourselves.
All of our eggs are in the "Saquon is going to vastly improve our offense" basket. He seems a phenom, but what if it just doesn't play out that way? This is the thought I keep coming back to. If that happens, firstly we aren't going to be very good. Secondly this MB will probably explode.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:44:49 GMT -5
They picked Tanney over Webb. This makes sense to you?
I am willing to trust them on the Tanney v Webb call I'm not.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 5, 2018 14:46:31 GMT -5
Eehhh....still think Foles played way over his head. But hey....he had a lot of real NFL experience. That is exactly what he did.
He also played lousy vs. Oakland and Dallas and then in the first playoff game vs. Atlanta.
Which is more of the kind of QB he normally is. So I stand by my assessment. The Eagles got lucky and never really expected Foles to do much except maybe hold the fort for a game or two. Unless there is a specific long term plan for a back up there are an after thought for the most part.
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Post by magilla on Sept 5, 2018 14:48:25 GMT -5
They didn't even know who he was Rosie. Which supports the idea that he wasn't a favorite to win the back-up job.
More than any season opener I can remember, I have zero idea what to expect on Sunday. Especially when you add the fact that we are going to have to depend to some extent on brand new players just signed against the Jags. I'm expecting to see what we've seen against the Jets. I expect Eli to spread the ball around. I expect Barkley to be threat in and out of the back-field, along with 13, 87 and 88. I think our offense will be fun to watch.
Defensively I think we will be stout against the run. Against the pass I'm a bit more concerned, but I'm looking forward to an attacking style of defense.
"Win now with Eli".....not sure exactly what that entails. I hope they believe they think they can "win now" with the 53 players we have.
Personally, I think we are in for a rough start this season. The schedule, new players and new schemes suggest we may struggle early.
And we are assuming we'll stay healthy. No team does.
Injuries are key as I see it. I think we are going to surprise people - including ourselves.
Rosie, I’m hoping that you’re right because we need NY Giants to be competittive so we can have fun watching them play. I was at the Monday Night Game against Indianapolis Colts for Michael Strahan halftime ceremony when ODB had his breakout game and doggone it, that kid pumps up Giants Stadium crowd almost to a playoff atmosphere; I felt that night that he is the spark we need and if he keeps his head together, will be The Best Offensive Weapon NY Giants have ever had. Also, I was wearing Jason Sehorn jersey that night but I’ took it off and gave it away to a young fan when my friend called me and she told me he had cheated on Angie Harmon; I don’t like Jason Segorn anymore. I think we’re going to be good on Offense although I’m still a little concerned with Eli; not much but a little bit in his confidence and focus remaining throughout. I have some concerns still about Defense and Special Teams. Nevertheless, I’m optimistic, excited and ready for NY Giants Football to start. Heck, I’m so excited that I’m rambling in this post and my lunch is getting cold.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 14:49:35 GMT -5
We have a skinny little QB from Richmond who lacks arm strength and has never seen true game action....and Alex Tanney. While Lauletta has potential, he is absolutely nowhere near ready to play in the NFL if Eli goes down in week 1. This alone should've been reason enough to keep Webb. Amazing how so many other teams have serviceable/solid QBs as backups and yet all we have is a rookie with clear development needs. The season is literally over if Eli goes down. I’m not an Eli Knight by any means but if any QB’s franchise QB goes down with an injury it usually spells disaster. Very rarely are the cases of Cassell or Garrafolo (who happened to play for the same coach/scheme)
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:51:36 GMT -5
That is exactly what he did.
He also played lousy vs. Oakland and Dallas and then in the first playoff game vs. Atlanta.
Which is more of the kind of QB he normally is. So I stand by my assessment. The Eagles got lucky and never really expected Foles to do much except maybe hold the fort for a game or two. Unless there is a specific long term plan for a back up there are an after thought for the most part. They expected him to keep the ship afloat (sorry for continuing to use that reference). He is a QB who has been a starter and has won a lot of games. They expected that if called upon, he could manage the offense with competence. Which is essentially what he did.
A guy like that gives them a chance to continue to win. An untested rookie or a journeyman who's essentially never played in the league does not. That is the position we are in.
Yes Eli has a unique record of staying on the field. but we've seen that before with Peyton and Favre. You take enough snaps and get old enough and your luck can run out.....and often does.
Our guy will be 38 in a few months. To count on his continued durability seems like a very risky policy to me.
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Post by Parademon1 on Sept 5, 2018 14:51:56 GMT -5
It's really not an excuse when since 2013, the Giants have been a "win by the pass" 1st team due to lack of a run game. OBJ didn't amass those $95 million numbers during his 1st 3 yrs cuz the Giants were a run heavy team. If they were, he probably doesn't have 313 rec 4424 yds & 38 TDs in his 1st 44 starts. Once he went down to injury, any chance this team had of being competitive in 17' went down in flames considering we had zero run game & the entire NFL knew the game plan that coach Menu ran. If some of you wanna insist that we couldn't have won 7-8 games last yr with a healthy receiving corps, then that's on you. But that would have brought back both Coach menu & JR so in a way, last yr was a blessing.
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Sept 5, 2018 14:53:36 GMT -5
We have 2 coaches who have developed QBs into franchise QBs. They let Webb go. Does that tell you something? They picked Tanney over Webb. This makes sense to you?
Obviously they liked what they saw on Tanney more than Webb.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:55:38 GMT -5
It's really not an excuse when since 2013, the Giants have been a "win by the pass" 1st team due to lack of a run game. OBJ didn't amass those $95 million numbers during his 1st 3 yrs cuz the Giants were a run heavy team. If they were, he probably doesn't have 313 rec 4424 yds & 38 TDs in his 1st 44 starts. Once he went down to injury, any chance this team had of being competitive in 17' went down in flames considering we had zero run game & the entire NFL knew the game plan that coach Menu ran. If some of you wanna insist that we couldn't have won 7-8 games last yr with a healthy receiving corps, then that's on you. But that would have brought back both Coach menu & JR so in a way, last yr was a blessing. The bottom line is that we have had 4 losing seasons out of the last 5. We have some rebuilding to do. And now our QB is nearing the end of his career, and I'm not sure at all what the plan is to deal with that.
Our record over those 5 years is 33-47.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 14:56:18 GMT -5
They picked Tanney over Webb. This makes sense to you?
Obviously they liked what they saw on Tanney more than Webb. I doubt that very seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 15:00:36 GMT -5
Which is more of the kind of QB he normally is. So I stand by my assessment. The Eagles got lucky and never really expected Foles to do much except maybe hold the fort for a game or two. Unless there is a specific long term plan for a back up there are an after thought for the most part. They expected him to keep the ship afloat (sorry for continuing to use that reference). He is a QB who has been a starter and has won a lot of games. They expected that if called upon, he could manage the offense with competence. Which is essentially what he did.
A guy like that gives them a chance to continue to win. An untested rookie or a journeyman who's essentially never played in the league does not. That is the position we are in.
Yes Eli has a unique record of staying on the field. but we've seen that before with Peyton and Favre. You take enough snaps and get old enough and your luck can run out.....and often does.
Our guy will be 38 in a few months. To count on his continued durability seems like a very risky policy to me.
My thing is that there is two choices when it comes to backup QBs. 1 you get a legit veteran aka Foles 2 you go for upside and go all in on a draft pick The Giants are doing neither
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 5, 2018 15:02:27 GMT -5
They expected him to keep the ship afloat (sorry for continuing to use that reference). He is a QB who has been a starter and has won a lot of games. They expected that if called upon, he could manage the offense with competence. Which is essentially what he did.
A guy like that gives them a chance to continue to win. An untested rookie or a journeyman who's essentially never played in the league does not. That is the position we are in.
Yes Eli has a unique record of staying on the field. but we've seen that before with Peyton and Favre. You take enough snaps and get old enough and your luck can run out.....and often does.
Our guy will be 38 in a few months. To count on his continued durability seems like a very risky policy to me.
My thing is that there is two choices when it comes to backup QBs. 1 you get a legit veteran aka Foles 2 you go for upside and go all in on a draft pick The Giants are doing neither If we had dumped Webb for a legit back up, I would have been OK with it. They did no such thing. That's what makes this such a head scratcher.
It just seems like a stupid move.
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Post by Martin on Sept 5, 2018 15:02:50 GMT -5
The Eli exit plan isn't a plan yet. Maybe Barkley can throw it too. That solves it right there. All kidding aside its hard to understand there thinking on this one. I still don't agree with the Barkley pick. I hope my opinion is completely wrong for the sake of all Giants fans.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 15:04:46 GMT -5
Which supports the idea that he wasn't a favorite to win the back-up job.
I'm expecting to see what we've seen against the Jets. I expect Eli to spread the ball around. I expect Barkley to be threat in and out of the back-field, along with 13, 87 and 88. I think our offense will be fun to watch.
Defensively I think we will be stout against the run. Against the pass I'm a bit more concerned, but I'm looking forward to an attacking style of defense.
Injuries are key as I see it. I think we are going to surprise people - including ourselves.
All of our eggs are in the "Saquon is going to vastly improve our offense" basket. He seems a phenom, but what if it just doesn't play out that way? This is the thought I keep coming back to. If that happens, firstly we aren't going to be very good. Secondly this MB will probably explode. I think Barkley is phenomenal. What he did in Penn St. was remarkable. Now he's up against better competition but the focus will not only be on him anymore. I expect him to have a bunch of 2-3 yard gains throughout this season capped off with a ton of unbelievable runs. This is the first time in a very long time defenses will have to respect the run.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 5, 2018 15:11:14 GMT -5
I am willing to trust them on the Tanney v Webb call I'm not. What you saw from Webb was significantly better than what you saw from Tanney?
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Post by Parademon1 on Sept 5, 2018 15:13:14 GMT -5
I don't think he will have too many 2-3 yd gains because that will entail a stacked box & I would expect a QB of Eli's football IQ to immediately audible to a pass vs a 8-9 man box. No way you run vs a stacked box when you have 1 on 1 with OBJ lined up wide or a seam route to Engram.. That's where the play action goes into effect.
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