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Post by McCherry on Jul 27, 2020 14:21:05 GMT -5
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 27, 2020 14:38:42 GMT -5
I couldn't disagree with this "holier than though" stance more. Not to point at you directly BR, and I won't bother going into much detail, but the thought of cutting a player because he was "with a group of assholes and needs to be smarter" is baffling and comes across archaic. Very much an old man yelling at clouds type mentality. If Baker didn't actually commit this crime, and was actually setup, there's absolutely zero reason to cut him. None. Yup. And apparently you too thought Red was implying he should be cut. That's what I took from his comments too. There are a few posters alluding to the fact Baker should be cut, and I took BR's post as piggybacking onto those views. Either way, the point still stands. Unless he's found guilty of these crimes, there's no reason to cut Baker.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 27, 2020 14:39:09 GMT -5
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 27, 2020 14:40:09 GMT -5
Until everything is sorted out, this makes the most sense. Keep all distractions out of the locker room, focus on football.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 27, 2020 14:41:09 GMT -5
Casts some serious doubt on his season and career overall.
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Post by alw10 on Jul 27, 2020 14:42:01 GMT -5
With everything going on around camp this year, I’m guessing they don’t want the added distraction. Makes me kind of wish I was given his talent and he was given mine.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 27, 2020 14:58:51 GMT -5
Casts some serious doubt on his season and career overall. Prudent move by us I think … allows us to hold on to the guy until his legal situation plays out.
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Post by jb456 on Jul 27, 2020 15:08:30 GMT -5
Casts some serious doubt on his season and career overall. Prudent move by us I think … allows us to hold on to the guy until his legal situation plays out. 100% agree. If Baker was allowed to attend camp, it would turn into a circus and Baker's case could be a dominant story-line for weeks. The Giants can now hold on to Baker without becoming a side show. If he ends up to be guilty, bye bye, if he is innocent, he should be thankful he still has a job...
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 27, 2020 15:15:24 GMT -5
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 27, 2020 15:33:37 GMT -5
colleges should take a long hard look at the players who attend them and stop judging them by their football talent and grade them academically first, some of these guys can't even spell their name correctly... Lol. Yeah, and politicians should be honest, and everyone should love everyone else, and peace on earth! so you're saying that its OK with a school how illiterate and dumb a kid is as long as he can play good football, if that's true then its on the schools for caring more about their won and loss record on the football field and less about their reputation as an institute of higher learning..
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Post by jb456 on Jul 27, 2020 15:34:49 GMT -5
I actually hope he doesn't win his appeal. At least being placed on the exempt list gives the Giants some cover in not allowing to participate in some non-football activities. If he wins his appeal, the Giants will have to do one of the following: A) Allow Baker to attend camp and this could cause a major distraction. B) Tell Baker to stay away from camp and this could potentially burn a bridge with Baker, who could end up being innocent. Let's hope he loses his appeal......
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 27, 2020 15:54:55 GMT -5
Casts some serious doubt on his season and career overall. if he really wanted his career it wouldn't be in jeopardy, he had an opportunity most of us can only dream about and he is blowing it .
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Post by GameTime on Jul 27, 2020 15:57:44 GMT -5
Casts some serious doubt on his season and career overall. if he really wanted his career it wouldn't be in jeopardy, he had an opportunity most of us can only dream about and he is blowing it . Shows that even with an enviable opportunity some people just sabotage themselves for some reason. Rosas is doing the same thing. In sports alone so many players fall victim. Crazy.
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 27, 2020 16:08:37 GMT -5
if he really wanted his career it wouldn't be in jeopardy, he had an opportunity most of us can only dream about and he is blowing it . Shows that even with an enviable opportunity some people just sabotage themselves for some reason. Rosas is doing the same thing. In sports alone so many players fall victim. Crazy. I may be in the minority with my opinion on this but I hold the colleges these kids attended for paying more attention to football performance and less to classroom accomplishments, but thats just me...
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 27, 2020 16:15:23 GMT -5
I actually hope he doesn't win his appeal. At least being placed on the exempt list gives the Giants some cover in not allowing to participate in some non-football activities. If he wins his appeal, the Giants will have to do one of the following: A) Allow Baker to attend camp and this could cause a major distraction. B) Tell Baker to stay away from camp and this could potentially burn a bridge with Baker, who could end up being innocent. Let's hope he loses his appeal...... I agree.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 27, 2020 16:16:40 GMT -5
Lol. Yeah, and politicians should be honest, and everyone should love everyone else, and peace on earth! so you're saying that its OK with a school how illiterate and dumb a kid is as long as he can play good football, if that's true then its on the schools for caring more about their won and loss record on the football field and less about their reputation as an institute of higher learning.. I don't say its ok. But it is not going to change.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 27, 2020 16:23:08 GMT -5
Baker should consider himself lucky that being a moron isn’t a crime. Hell, his play on the field last year was a misdemeanor. If he is guilty of the crime, screw throwing him in jail. Make him learn a playbook. By the third page he’ll throw himself at the mercy of the courts..
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 27, 2020 16:29:54 GMT -5
so you're saying that its OK with a school how illiterate and dumb a kid is as long as he can play good football, if that's true then its on the schools for caring more about their won and loss record on the football field and less about their reputation as an institute of higher learning.. I don't say its ok. But it is not going to change. you're right its not going to change because football is a money maker for the school, its a similar situation with what's happened to TV programing, more commercials and less quality programs and thats not going to change for the same reason..
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Post by GameTime on Jul 27, 2020 16:50:24 GMT -5
Shows that even with an enviable opportunity some people just sabotage themselves for some reason. Rosas is doing the same thing. In sports alone so many players fall victim. Crazy. I may be in the minority with my opinion on this but I hold the colleges these kids attended for paying more attention to football performance and less to classroom accomplishments, but thats just me... Thats is a factor for sure but its other things as well. Not every person will do the right thing. In any walk of life.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 27, 2020 17:37:59 GMT -5
.............like everything else this season I will wait and see. This is what I said page one, post #13 of this thread. .............you said At this point there is zero reason to cut him. And if they do and he ends being exonerated, the Giants will look like idiots cutting a first round draft pick for nothing. I said........ Not nothing , he was in with a group of assholes,he needs to be smarter .......all it means if it happens is it wasn't criminal,stupid ,yes. you said....... So you really believe it is smart to cut a first round pick for the crime of hanging around with assholes? I said......... Please quote where I said he should be cut,I have for awhile said to( "wait and see")? You made the comment that he,if he is not charged he did nothing wrong,......................not even close .He was stupid just not criminal and if he gets a second chance with the Giants better change how he spends his free time and with who. you said.............. I said there was no reason to cut him for nothing. You said it wasnt for nothing, which implies you wanted him cut. Not trying to put words in your mouth. ............... yes , that's exactly what you were trying to do and not very well either. Lol, ok bud. Have a Snickers. I'm not the only one who assumed you wanted him cut.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 27, 2020 17:42:32 GMT -5
Thats is a factor for sure but its other things as well. Not every person will do the right thing. In any walk of life. True and while(maybe) not criminal many things are stupid and they still might get the person in trouble ,again while not criminal( that we know of yet) ,definitely stupid to be around a bunch of "questionable character people" When you were young, did you only go places where you were sure you knew everyone would be there?
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 27, 2020 17:43:14 GMT -5
So as of Monday July 27th Baker and the Seattle player are now on the Commissioners exempt list indefinitely. So we'll see what happens. This was just a matter of time.
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Post by ocgiant on Jul 27, 2020 18:44:02 GMT -5
I would trust he has someone to act as his career/life coach/compass if so then he needs to listen to the advice or he could very well be tragically lost. If he gets a second chance I hope he takes advantage of it and it all works out for him. Here we are discussing 3 players who our team has invested heavily in, but who may not play again for us, and appear to need some help in the psychological area. Didn't we just bring on a team psychologist, or was that just a PR move in case of future accusations that we are not up with the times? I was saying in another post it's not easy... each draft is so critical to continued & future success of each franchise. It's never going to be perfect but you have to get players selected more right than wrong especially the first 3 - 4 rounds. Is it trying to reach too much for a player that sometimes creates these player situations? There were the warning signs with Baker and it being so crucial in the Giants rebuild so now there is Baker not helping himself or the team. What I think sucks is it makes much it harder for the next kid who comes along who makes a mistake. Maybe if they had had the psych person sooner the Giants would not be in this position. I am 50/50 Baker even gets a second chance then it's up to him whether he's learned from his mistakes this far. Unfortunately, it may be up to the court at this point that decides. I'd be interested to hear what his conversations have been like with DG and Judge? So disappointing when the Giants need every player selected to count maybe it's too much to ask for.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 27, 2020 18:54:52 GMT -5
Here we are discussing 3 players who our team has invested heavily in, but who may not play again for us, and appear to need some help in the psychological area. Didn't we just bring on a team psychologist, or was that just a PR move in case of future accusations that we are not up with the times? I was saying in another post it's not easy... each draft is so critical to continued & future success of each franchise. It's never going to be perfect but you have to get players selected more right than wrong especially the first 3 - 4 rounds. Is it trying to reach too much for a player that sometimes creates these player situations? There were the warning signs with Baker and it being so crucial in the Giants rebuild so now there is Baker not helping himself or the team. What I think sucks is it makes much it harder for the next kid who comes along who makes a mistake. Maybe if they had had the psych person sooner the Giants would not be in this position. I am 50/50 Baker even gets a second chance then it's up to him whether he's learned from his mistakes this far. Unfortunately, it may be up to the court at this point that decides. I'd be interested to hear what his conversations have been like with DG and Judge? So disappointing when the Giants need every player selected to count maybe it's too much to ask for. Frustrating because the early picks CAN BE vetted well. Talk to their teammates, coaches, friends...double check the "stories" about this and that. Teammates in particular know who they would go to war with, who they would trust their sister with etc, etc. I know, I coached kids that age. We screwed up royally by taking such a risk with such a young man. I am left hoping for the unlikely to happen...........with fingers crossed........which is no way to run a team
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Post by jimmieray on Jul 27, 2020 19:08:59 GMT -5
Here we are discussing 3 players who our team has invested heavily in, but who may not play again for us, and appear to need some help in the psychological area. Didn't we just bring on a team psychologist, or was that just a PR move in case of future accusations that we are not up with the times? I was saying in another post it's not easy... each draft is so critical to continued & future success of each franchise. It's never going to be perfect but you have to get players selected more right than wrong especially the first 3 - 4 rounds. Is it trying to reach too much for a player that sometimes creates these player situations? There were the warning signs with Baker and it being so crucial in the Giants rebuild so now there is Baker not helping himself or the team. What I think sucks is it makes much it harder for the next kid who comes along who makes a mistake. Maybe if they had had the psych person sooner the Giants would not be in this position. I am 50/50 Baker even gets a second chance then it's up to him whether he's learned from his mistakes this far. Unfortunately, it may be up to the court at this point that decides. I'd be interested to hear what his conversations have been like with DG and Judge? So disappointing when the Giants need every player selected to count maybe it's too much to ask for. I don't think the psychologist would be part of the drafting interview/decision process, but it just seems here are some opportunities to get that early work in with a few of these players already on the team. And it could give a better indication on how determined those players are to truly get straightened out.
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Post by giantsrock on Jul 27, 2020 19:10:02 GMT -5
No surprise here. There was no way the giants were going to waste a roster spot on him. His cap hit is bigger if he's cut than on the exempt list so this was the smart move. At some point we'll be able to get the rest of his guaranteed money voided by the league.
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southerner
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Bearer of Bad News
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Post by southerner on Jul 27, 2020 19:29:56 GMT -5
Once on the commissioner’s list, he is done. The good thing for him he still gets paid, but it is not against the cap, but these two players are now considered radioactive......they will be gone by January. What this really says is that the NFL’s investigation tells them these two guys are NOT people they want in the league.....and the NFL’s investigators are almost all former FBI or major city detectives. It is clear the Giants have written off Baker, and time for everyone here to do the same. The silver lining here is that this will create more cap space in 2020, and in 2021 when the cap free falls down to $175M.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 27, 2020 19:58:09 GMT -5
Once on the commissioner’s list, he is done. The good thing for him he still gets paid, but it is not against the cap, but these two players are now considered radioactive......they will be gone by January. What this really says is that the NFL’s investigation tells them these two guys are NOT people they want in the league.....and the NFL’s investigators are almost all former FBI or major city detectives. It is clear the Giants have written off Baker, and time for everyone here to do the same. The silver lining here is that this will create more cap space in 2020, and in 2021 when the cap free falls down to $175M. That is a painful silver lining but he was already gone so whatever comes back to us is found money. It is too hard to win in this league with everyone on the same page. With a bushel full of bad seeds, it is impossible. Onward, Ugh!
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 27, 2020 20:57:51 GMT -5
Once on the commissioner’s list, he is done. The good thing for him he still gets paid, but it is not against the cap, but these two players are now considered radioactive......they will be gone by January. What this really says is that the NFL’s investigation tells them these two guys are NOT people they want in the league.....and the NFL’s investigators are almost all former FBI or major city detectives. It is clear the Giants have written off Baker, and time for everyone here to do the same. The silver lining here is that this will create more cap space in 2020, and in 2021 when the cap free falls down to $175M. This makes no sense. If the NFL/FBI investigators (or the Giants own investigators) came to any conclusion, he would be cut by now. But he's not cut. Because literally no one knows what happened in that house, including the cops and prosecutors. Pat Leonard has been constantly wrong for months predicting he will be cut. Let's see what happens?
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southerner
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Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,226
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Post by southerner on Jul 28, 2020 4:26:27 GMT -5
Once on the commissioner’s list, he is done. The good thing for him he still gets paid, but it is not against the cap, but these two players are now considered radioactive......they will be gone by January. What this really says is that the NFL’s investigation tells them these two guys are NOT people they want in the league.....and the NFL’s investigators are almost all former FBI or major city detectives. It is clear the Giants have written off Baker, and time for everyone here to do the same. The silver lining here is that this will create more cap space in 2020, and in 2021 when the cap free falls down to $175M. This makes no sense. If the NFL/FBI investigators (or the Giants own investigators) came to any conclusion, he would be cut by now. But he's not cut. Because literally no one knows what happened in that house, including the cops and prosecutors. Pat Leonard has been constantly wrong for months predicting he will be cut. Let's see what happens? It makes absolute sense....they will wait until his trial, or settlement is complete and then dump him like a dirty diaper.....he is done as a Giant and probably done as an NFL player.
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