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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 16, 2020 15:48:59 GMT -5
Mind you all this came out before Covid-19 putting this team behind the 8 ball with having to do everything they normally do from April through June in August while also trying to get ready f0r a season To me the story about him is how the team looks in December more than final record I don't buy the Covid excuse. The "Washington Football Team" had no problem with a new system and new coaches. They killed it week 1. Lol Nwvemind the fact they also lucked into playing a team that lost 3 linemen to injury and Peters is a shell of himself So how do you explain the Steelers playing at mid-season speed and instincts against a team that was basically in preseason game 1 mode having maybe 25% of their playbook available ? Indisputable fact that this was a direct result of the Covid-19 situation that you cannot argue or spin around
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 16, 2020 15:52:32 GMT -5
I don't buy the Covid excuse. The "Washington Football Team" had no problem with a new system and new coaches. They killed it week 1. Lol Nwvemind the fact they also lucked into playing a team that lost 3 linemen to injury and Peters is a shell of himself So how do you explain the Steelers playing at mid-season speed and instincts against a team that was basically in preseason game 1 mode having maybe 25% of their playbook available ? Indisputable fact that this was a direct result of the Covid-19 situation that you cannot argue or spin around It's very simple to explain.
They are a lot better than us.
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Post by krappdetector on Sept 16, 2020 15:52:59 GMT -5
Well speaking for myself I can say that I'm not an NFL GM. I only play one on the internet. Having said that to me it's really a matter of philosophy. Do you pick a RB with the 2nd pick in the draft. By definition, the team is bad. I think we've seen in today's NFL that it's a poor idea without a decent O line. Plus we've seen so many great RB's who come from later rounds. There are certain positions that have to be focused on with a pick that high. QB, LT, Pass rusher, cover corner. Those are the most impactful positions on the field.
So who SHOULD they have picked? We don't have access to the scouting, so really none of us can say. I thought when we traded JPP, Bradley Chubb came into play. But we can certainly agree that over the first two+ seasons......Saquan isn't helping us win. As a matter of fact we won two games last year with him on the sidelines.
It's just the nature of today's NFL.
Drafting 101: You never self impose dropping yourself in the draft period. Drafting 102: You do not take the BPA at a non-critical position 'on principle' because you really don't know who that is. A short reach for a fine player at a position of great need is preferable to a more highly 'rated' player of limited impact due to poor fit. SB was drafted three years before we were ready for him!
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 15:55:38 GMT -5
Drafting 101: You never self impose dropping yourself in the draft period. Drafting 102: You do not take the BPA at a non-critical position 'on principle' because you really don't know who that is. A short reach for a fine player at a position of great need is preferable to a more highly 'rated' player of limited impact due to poor fit. SB was drafted three years before we were ready for him! What GM has ever said that? Not one ever. No matter what you think or believe . That is an inaccurate statement.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 16, 2020 15:55:58 GMT -5
Lol Nwvemind the fact they also lucked into playing a team that lost 3 linemen to injury and Peters is a shell of himself So how do you explain the Steelers playing at mid-season speed and instincts against a team that was basically in preseason game 1 mode having maybe 25% of their playbook available ? Indisputable fact that this was a direct result of the Covid-19 situation that you cannot argue or spin around It's very simple to explain.
They are a lot better than us.
Against an O line with a rookie,new C and jag RT that only was able to practice together for 4 weeks with no game experience at all on an offense where players were still not sure of assignments in protections that wouldn't have looked as bad if this was a normal offseason and preseason
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 16, 2020 15:56:39 GMT -5
the Giants are about 1 or 2 years away from needing a premier RB and the Barkley pick will end up being wasted because this team isn't ready for a back of his talent, there are just too many holes yet to fill and positions to be fixed...
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 16, 2020 16:01:01 GMT -5
Well speaking for myself I can say that I'm not an NFL GM. I only play one on the internet. Having said that to me it's really a matter of philosophy. Do you pick a RB with the 2nd pick in the draft. By definition, the team is bad. I think we've seen in today's NFL that it's a poor idea without a decent O line. Plus we've seen so many great RB's who come from later rounds. There are certain positions that have to be focused on with a pick that high. QB, LT, Pass rusher, cover corner. Those are the most impactful positions on the field.
So who SHOULD they have picked? We don't have access to the scouting, so really none of us can say. I thought when we traded JPP, Bradley Chubb came into play. But we can certainly agree that over the first two+ seasons......Saquan isn't helping us win. As a matter of fact we won two games last year with him on the sidelines.
It's just the nature of today's NFL.
Drafting 101: You never self impose dropping yourself in the draft period. Drafting 101.5: You never refuse to listen to trade deals.
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 16:04:42 GMT -5
Drafting 101: You never self impose dropping yourself in the draft period. Drafting 101.5: You never refuse to listen to trade deals. I will ask it again. What trade deals did he have?
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Post by krappdetector on Sept 16, 2020 16:05:57 GMT -5
That unfortunately we’ll never know Why your entire argument is based on flawed logic. Nonsense. I am a logician. The argument is based on the premise - i.e. the original pick - and the current thinking that several picks would have yielded more value to the team in both the short and long run. Because we don't know exactly what happened makes it an opinion based on probabilities, thus the 'logic' is inferential rather than deductive.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 16, 2020 16:06:29 GMT -5
Drafting 101.5: You never refuse to listen to trade deals. I will ask it again. What trade deals did he have? We don't know (except for the Broncos rumor), but more importantly Dave doesn't know, because he told his people not to answer the phone.
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Post by SG88 on Sept 16, 2020 16:06:54 GMT -5
How about the ultimate mistake of passing on Joe Montana in the draft? This is for my buddy Morehead. LOL
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 16:08:25 GMT -5
I will ask it again. What trade deals did he have? We don't know (except for the Broncos rumor), but more importantly Dave doesn't know, because he told his people not to answer the phone. I guess I have to post this again since you did not read it . I want to nip this in the bud once and for all. What were these we want the #2 pick GMs doing for the 100 Days between the SB and the Draft? Were they waiting for the last 15 minuets before they were set to pounce? That whole he would not take any call is the reason he did not make a trade is flawed. I am 100% sure the Eli / Rivers deal was hashed out way before draft day. So why did any of these "callers" chose not to work out a deal before draft day if they wanted a QB so bad. Ponder that.
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Post by krappdetector on Sept 16, 2020 16:08:26 GMT -5
Lol Nwvemind the fact they also lucked into playing a team that lost 3 linemen to injury and Peters is a shell of himself So how do you explain the Steelers playing at mid-season speed and instincts against a team that was basically in preseason game 1 mode having maybe 25% of their playbook available ? Indisputable fact that this was a direct result of the Covid-19 situation that you cannot argue or spin around It's very simple to explain.
They are a lot better than us.
You have an amazing and wonderful ability to reduce things to the most basic truth.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Sept 16, 2020 16:09:38 GMT -5
Drafting 101: You never self impose dropping yourself in the draft period. Drafting 102: You do not take the BPA at a non-critical position 'on principle' because you really don't know who that is. A short reach for a fine player at a position of great need is preferable to a more highly 'rated' player of limited impact due to poor fit. SB was drafted three years before we were ready for him! Were still not ready for him lol....
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 16:12:14 GMT -5
Why your entire argument is based on flawed logic. Nonsense. I am a logician. The argument is based on the premise - i.e. the original pick - and the current thinking that several picks would have yielded more value to the team in both the short and long run.Because we don't know exactly what happened makes it an opinion based on probabilities, thus the 'logic' is inferential rather than deductive. What picks were we getting? Speculation is not logic. if you do not know what all the options that were presented. The conclusion is based on flawed logic because that line is premise of a variable that may not exist.
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Post by krappdetector on Sept 16, 2020 16:18:02 GMT -5
Drafting 102: You do not take the BPA at a non-critical position 'on principle' because you really don't know who that is. A short reach for a fine player at a position of great need is preferable to a more highly 'rated' player of limited impact due to poor fit. SB was drafted three years before we were ready for him! What GM has ever said that? Not one ever. No matter what you think or believe . That is an inaccurate statement. The actual draft does not proceed, EVER, according some arbitrary and subjective 'best player available' sequence. THAT is the reality. If DG took SB for reasons other than BPA that is actually a worse indictment of his judgment!
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Post by thetruth on Sept 16, 2020 16:20:28 GMT -5
Nonsense. I am a logician. The argument is based on the premise - i.e. the original pick - and the current thinking that several picks would have yielded more value to the team in both the short and long run.Because we don't know exactly what happened makes it an opinion based on probabilities, thus the 'logic' is inferential rather than deductive. What picks were we getting? Speculation is not logic. if you do know know what all the options that were presented. The conclusion is based on flawed logic because that line is premise of a variable that may not exist. Based on your logic, Gettlemen has never traded back because he's never had a trade that offered enough value for any of his picks in his 7+ year career as a GM thats in charge of a draft? because to consider anything else is just 'speculation'? Interesting. Well, thats one way to look at it.
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Post by SG88 on Sept 16, 2020 16:23:57 GMT -5
We're one game into the season and we're already recycling the "We should have never drafted a running back at 2" debate again? I am pushing my chips to the center of the table. I am ALL IN! Saquon Barkley will have 150+ yards from scrimmage and two touchdowns next week against the Bears. If anyone wants to put money on it, let me know.
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 16:24:17 GMT -5
What picks were we getting? Speculation is not logic. if you do know know what all the options that were presented. The conclusion is based on flawed logic because that line is premise of a variable that may not exist. Based on your logic, Gettlemen has never traded back because he's never had a trade that offered enough value for any of his picks in his 7+ year career as a GM thats in charge of a draft? because to consider anything else is just 'speculation'? Interesting. Well, thats one way to look at it. Again an assumption based upon no evidence.
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 16:28:58 GMT -5
What GM has ever said that? Not one ever. No matter what you think or believe . That is an inaccurate statement. The actual draft does not proceed, EVER, according some arbitrary and subjective 'best player available' sequence. THAT is the reality. If DG took SB for reasons other than BPA that is actually a worse indictment of his judgment!I an not saying he did you are. I have claimed all along he was the draft's teams BPA. What is your point? You don't have to believe but it does not change the fact, Players are rated and pick according to that rating. Draft board are set for a reason . If you have the #2 pick you have 2 players rated for that pick #1 and #2.
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Post by imgrate on Sept 16, 2020 16:29:12 GMT -5
We don't know (except for the Broncos rumor), but more importantly Dave doesn't know, because he told his people not to answer the phone. I guess I have to post this again since you did not read it . I want to nip this in the bud once and for all. What were these we want the #2 pick GMs doing for the 100 Days between the SB and the Draft? Were they waiting for the last 15 minuets before they were set to pounce? That whole he would not take any call is the reason he did not make a trade is flawed. I am 100% sure the Eli / Rivers deal was hashed out way before draft day. So why did any of these "callers" chose not to work out a deal before draft day if they wanted a QB so bad. Ponder that. Uh what? The the eli/rivers deal was clearly not worked out before draft day, otherwise the Chargers would not have drafted Eli and we would have had the #1 pick already.
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Post by thetruth on Sept 16, 2020 16:31:17 GMT -5
Based on your logic, Gettlemen has never traded back because he's never had a trade that offered enough value for any of his picks in his 7+ year career as a GM thats in charge of a draft? because to consider anything else is just 'speculation'? Interesting. Well, thats one way to look at it. Again an assumption based up on no evidence. The evidence is 0 trade backs in the draft in 7+ years. Why?
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 16:39:15 GMT -5
I guess I have to post this again since you did not read it . I want to nip this in the bud once and for all. What were these we want the #2 pick GMs doing for the 100 Days between the SB and the Draft? Were they waiting for the last 15 minuets before they were set to pounce? That whole he would not take any call is the reason he did not make a trade is flawed. I am 100% sure the Eli / Rivers deal was hashed out way before draft day. So why did any of these "callers" chose not to work out a deal before draft day if they wanted a QB so bad. Ponder that. Uh what? The the eli/rivers deal was clearly not worked out before draft day, otherwise the Chargers would not have drafted Eli and we would have had the #1 pick already. It was worked out. The Chargers wanted to make sure the got Rivers and the Picks. Just making the trade would not guaranteed Rivers. They had to wait to and see if rivers was available at the time the Giant picked at 4 because Oakland and Arizona picked before the Giants.
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 16:40:02 GMT -5
Again an assumption based up on no evidence. The evidence is 0 trade backs in the draft in 7+ years. Why? You are making an assumption that there was a good trade offer worthy of moving.
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,191
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Post by southerner on Sept 16, 2020 16:47:13 GMT -5
Again an assumption based up on no evidence. The evidence is 0 trade backs in the draft in 7+ years. Why? Well, it looks like the Giants will be in the same situation with a very high draft slot in the 2021 draft. It’s great to trade back, but only if the offer is great. If the Giants are in the top 3, which right now looks likely, they should be able to collect a lot in return for their slot.
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mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
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Post by mj312 on Sept 16, 2020 16:49:21 GMT -5
If you put any GM in the same situation the giants were in when they took barkley 100% of them would have done the same thing .. it was the right pick at the right time .. who in their right mind would ever see the Giants offensive line being this bad 3 years consecutively.. the year before they took him our running game was putrid and Jennings and darkwa ( I believe ) were still able to get some decent runs in but they just lacked the breakaway speed .. barkley was the guy to change this however our line actually got worst .. I don't blame gettleman for taking SB , I blame gettleman for whiffing big time on the line ..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 17:32:48 GMT -5
Yup. Absolutely. The thing is after this season do we give him a mega contract which I am sure he will want He is a good runner and could be great on another team. But he should be traded for draft picks while we can salvage some value from the mistake.To give him an extension is a foolish, face-saving effort... and is like doubling down on the original error. Exactly but are teams willing to give you anything worth it knowing they will have to give him a huge contract in a year
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 17:35:11 GMT -5
It really depends on our record. If we go 2-14 would you still feel DG is safe? Do you think Judge would be ok with that? A 2-14, 3-13, 5-11 HC is a Lame Duck with a new GM. The next GM may have a diffrent view on the direction of the team than JJ wants to go in . With a 2-14 .... 5-11 record the HC has little amo to tell the GM what he wants. If I am Joe Judge I claimer for the owner to keep Dave,. Just on the fact they are both on the same page on the direction of the team. Right now it is symbiotic. It may not be with a change. There is no way we pick a new HC after just one year and Covid. DG however may be gone and the new GM will have to accept JJ has 3 years to prove his worth
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Post by thetruth on Sept 16, 2020 17:42:02 GMT -5
The evidence is 0 trade backs in the draft in 7+ years. Why? You are making an assumption that there was a good trade offer worthy of moving. Right. Keep believing that Gettlemen has never recieved a good draft offer in 7 years, right on
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 16, 2020 18:09:57 GMT -5
Trade out and grab josh allen. We needed a qb badly . both other ny teams went qb and we didnt. Smh. Barkley was the safe pick in that he was pretty much gauranteed to be a good player. So to me gettleman wanted to play it safe.
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