Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 14:11:26 GMT -5
If we know this why didn’t the Giants Organization. Converting Gates to Center was/is idiotic. You could have had an average Free agency Center signed that would have produced better results. Like Spencer Pulley? If Pulley was at least average you would have an argument. He got beat out by a guard and may even be the backup to another guard (Lemieux)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 14:17:40 GMT -5
You’re making me work for my comments today brother. Ok these obviously are all hypothetical because we don’t know if we could have gotten them or not. 1. Matt Paradis went to Panthers 2 Mitch Morse went to the Bills Draft. Try and trade up for Cushenberry Or grabbed Biadasz We haven’t had a good center in a Decade and the longest one has been on our team is 2 years since then Ok, but Biadasz is a backup and Cushennerry has been graded worse than Gates. Backup to Joe Looney who is a Great Center.
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Post by Zimonami on Sept 28, 2020 14:20:08 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. LOL I said from the start protect the man and he will be fine or at least run the ball. That said we don't know what this OL is gonna be they need to have some time together new center new QB and line calls could be part of the problem. I will give them time to learn together not ready to throw dirt on theses guys yet. Think Thomas is way better then Flowers Hernandez even when struggling is better then John Jerry Center if it works out is gonna take time, I actually think that is the lynch pin for that interior. I hate it but the reality is that we have a first time coach theres going to be growing pains even BB and Parcels had them a new OL more growing pains no offseason more growing pains. Gettlemen will probably lose his job but that doesn't mean the next guy will struggle there are piece in place. Ahhh... a man with patience? it is definitely needed right now. You mentioned some of the reasons. I think that, since DG has had to turn over 52 of the 53 starters we had in 2017, and made a mistake on his first selection for HC,we have to have another year of patience on him. Most believe he finally got it right with JJ. He made most of his FA mistakes his first year. But, most of his draft picks have been good. Entirely new coaching staff... entirely new O and D schemes. The Covid. I think you have to give him to the end of 2021. Many forget that the Carolina team that went to the SB in 2016 was sculpted by DG.. George Young, 1979, didn't develop a solid Giant Championship contender team until1985... 7 years. That goes for Simms, who came in '79 and didn't participate on a contender for the SB until '85 Ernie Accorsi was Assistant GM '94-'97, and GM '98-2006. He brought us a SB appearance his 3rd yr as GM, and not again until 7 years later, in Eli's 3rd season. Bill Parcells was 3-12-1 his first year. BB had only 1 winning season, his 4th at 9-7, in 5 with Cleveland, and was 5-11 his first year with the Pats. The point is that it takes time to build a winning team that can contend for the top. Give DG another year, and JJ, to me, should be given 4-5 years. Jones needs 3 years, too. The pieces are building. it takes time.
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Sept 28, 2020 14:21:10 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. This organization wasted some of Eli’s best years . Of course he had some bad plays over those years but if you go back and watch some of the performances he had with scout team receivers at times you can really appreciate how good he was .. I do agree that his end was near just because it’s a young mans game , however I think the way the giants and gettleman went about it was low class .. to bench the guy that early in the season and to give the optics that it was his fault was wrong . After everything he did for this organization to make that guy stand on the sideline the last games of his career was pure trash and he deserved better. I know it’s a business but some people just deserve the benefit of the doubt . I don’t care what anyone says , he gave us 16 years without missing a single game . The least we could have done was let him go out with some damn dignity. Some giants fans should be ashamed of themselves for the way they trashed that guy . there was no reason jones couldn’t have sat the first year because clearly playing didn’t help him . I hope he’s sitting at home and laughing about the joke this franchise has become ..
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 28, 2020 14:24:32 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. This organization wasted some of Eli’s best years . Of course he had some bad plays over those years but if you go back and watch some of the performances he had with scout team receivers at times you can really appreciate how good he was .. I do agree that his end was near just because it’s a young mans game , however I think the way the giants and gettleman went about it was low class .. to bench the guy that early in the season and to give the optics that it was his fault was wrong . After everything he did for this organization to make that guy stand on the sideline the last games of his career was pure trash and he deserved better. I know it’s a business but some people just deserve the benefit of the doubt . I don’t care what anyone says , he gave us 16 years without missing a single game . The least we could have done was let him go out with some damn dignity. Some giants fans should be ashamed of themselves for the way they trashed that guy . there was no reason jones couldn’t have sat the first year because clearly playing didn’t help him . I hope he’s sitting at home and laughing about the joke this franchise has become .. Low Class? if anything they kept Eli too long out of respect and him being a fan favorite, too long. Anyone else would have been gone in 2017 or maybe not even gotten that last contract extension. not saying there werent other issues with the team, there were but his time was over. you dont rebuild with a 37 year old QB.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Sept 28, 2020 14:24:42 GMT -5
Proves what a classy guy Eli was, not that there was any doubt. They abandoned the ability to block for him at all right at the peak of his game. 11’ was phenomenal. If anyone recalls immediately in 12 he became a human piñata back there. Guess what, your ass would have been diving on the ground too.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 28, 2020 14:31:40 GMT -5
LOL I said from the start protect the man and he will be fine or at least run the ball. That said we don't know what this OL is gonna be they need to have some time together new center new QB and line calls could be part of the problem. I will give them time to learn together not ready to throw dirt on theses guys yet. Think Thomas is way better then Flowers Hernandez even when struggling is better then John Jerry Center if it works out is gonna take time, I actually think that is the lynch pin for that interior. I hate it but the reality is that we have a first time coach theres going to be growing pains even BB and Parcels had them a new OL more growing pains no offseason more growing pains. Gettlemen will probably lose his job but that doesn't mean the next guy will struggle there are piece in place. Ahhh... a man with patience? it is definitely needed right now. You mentioned some of the reasons. I think that, since DG has had to turn over 52 of the 53 starters we had in 2017, and made a mistake on his first selection for HC,we have to have another year of patience on him. Most believe he finally got it right with JJ. He made most of his FA mistakes his first year. But, most of his draft picks have been good. Entirely new coaching staff... entirely new O and D schemes. The Covid. I think you have to give him to the end of 2021. Many forget that the Carolina team that went to the SB in 2016 was sculpted by DG.. George Young, 1979, didn't develop a solid Giant Championship contender team until1985... 7 years. That goes for Simms, who came in '79 and didn't participate on a contender for the SB until '85 Ernie Accorsi was Assistant GM '94-'97, and GM '98-2006. He brought us a SB appearance his 3rd yr as GM, and not again until 7 years later, in Eli's 3rd season. Bill Parcells was 3-12-1 his first year. BB had only 1 winning season, his 4th at 9-7, in 5 with Cleveland, and was 5-11 his first year with the Pats. The point is that it takes time to build a winning team that can contend for the top. Give DG another year, and JJ, to me, should be given 4-5 years. Jones needs 3 years, too. The pieces are building. it takes time. DG hits the 3rd year mark later this year in December or maybe the first few days of January not sure he hasn't been perfect if he makes it to the 2021 draft it will be his 3rd full year on the job. he had 5 months from when he was hired to his first draft in 2018. he hasn't been here very long it just runs together they have been losing for so long.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 28, 2020 14:35:08 GMT -5
Lets keep in mind DJ has had little to no running game. he got the ball out yesterday at times, i dont know how he even did it.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 28, 2020 15:02:27 GMT -5
You’re making me work for my comments today brother. Ok these obviously are all hypothetical because we don’t know if we could have gotten them or not. 1. Matt Paradis went to Panthers 2 Mitch Morse went to the Bills Draft. Try and trade up for Cushenberry Or grabbed Biadasz We haven’t had a good center in a Decade and the longest one has been on our team is 2 years since then Ok, but Biadasz is a backup and Cushennerry has been graded worse than Gates. Does anyone have the Center grades? I haven't seen them.
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Post by hadenough on Sept 28, 2020 15:10:56 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. To be fair...Eli did stink
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Post by hadenough on Sept 28, 2020 15:13:36 GMT -5
This team just is severely undermanned on the roster and it is being built with a strategy that is 12+ years outdated. I think you hit it on the head....the Giants are outdated in many ways. I’m hoping Judge changes some of that.
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Post by allnygin on Sept 28, 2020 15:15:15 GMT -5
This organization wasted some of Eli’s best years . Of course he had some bad plays over those years but if you go back and watch some of the performances he had with scout team receivers at times you can really appreciate how good he was .. I do agree that his end was near just because it’s a young mans game , however I think the way the giants and gettleman went about it was low class .. to bench the guy that early in the season and to give the optics that it was his fault was wrong . After everything he did for this organization to make that guy stand on the sideline the last games of his career was pure trash and he deserved better. I know it’s a business but some people just deserve the benefit of the doubt . I don’t care what anyone says , he gave us 16 years without missing a single game . The least we could have done was let him go out with some damn dignity. Some giants fans should be ashamed of themselves for the way they trashed that guy . there was no reason jones couldn’t have sat the first year because clearly playing didn’t help him . I hope he’s sitting at home and laughing about the joke this franchise has become .. Low Class? if anything they kept Eli too long out of respect and him being a fan favorite, too long. Anyone else would have been gone in 2017 or maybe not even gotten that last contract extension. not saying there werent other issues with the team, there were but his time was over. you dont rebuild with a 37 year old QB. I respect the body of work Eli did and I do think they org effed him over royally in some of his prime years, but to be fair we did hold on a little to long. IMO
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desertash
Starter
The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. - Mark Twain
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Post by desertash on Sept 28, 2020 15:22:14 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. I for one never blamed Eli. Sure, he had his share of blame to carry, but I'm still convinced he could've been great 2016,17,18 if that goddamn OL was fixed. Thank God we didn't draft Darnold. That being said, this franchise is an outright laughing stock right now. It will take years of playoff appearances and a SB victory to climb out of this pit of despair. What he said
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 28, 2020 15:23:38 GMT -5
we seem to be replacing players out of frustration now and all that will accomplish is slowing down things while the new guy (guys) get up to speed before we can see what they can do...
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 28, 2020 15:27:47 GMT -5
Low Class? if anything they kept Eli too long out of respect and him being a fan favorite, too long. Anyone else would have been gone in 2017 or maybe not even gotten that last contract extension. not saying there werent other issues with the team, there were but his time was over. you dont rebuild with a 37 year old QB. I respect the body of work Eli did and I do think they org effed him over royally in some of his prime years, but to be fair we did hold on a little to long. IMO the organization effed him royally, how? Eli is a retired football player who is worth about 250 million dollars, I wish someone would screw me over like that..
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Post by allnygin on Sept 28, 2020 15:30:10 GMT -5
I respect the body of work Eli did and I do think they org effed him over royally in some of his prime years, but to be fair we did hold on a little to long. IMO the organization effed him royally, how? Eli is a retired football player who is worth about 250 million dollars, I wish someone would screw me over like that.. Not in that sense, but with talent. They failed to give him any talent to work with after 2011 well they gave him OBJ, but with no oline..
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 15:35:55 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. This is still Eli's ****ing fault! Everything always is.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 15:39:40 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. Eli has a little bit of the blame. He was Royalty and was kept on the Roster longer then he should have been. The GM’s tried to say we weren’t in rebuilding mode when we definitely should have been. We tried to create a win now team selecting a Running Back #2. No rebuilding team does that without beefing up the trenches first. Kinda hard to blame the player for management's mistakes, imagine if the FO actually started rebuilding the trenches particularly on the offensive side wbwen it started falling apart in 2011.
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Post by DJones19 on Sept 28, 2020 15:42:18 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. Eli was on some bad teams but his play certainly didn’t help.
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Post by DJones19 on Sept 28, 2020 15:45:04 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. Mara hired a GM that still calls female reporter’s “toots” and drafts players based on his “gut” or who he falls in love with. Didn’t help that Mara was in love with Eli Manning and wanted to select more players to build around him when we should have been moving on.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 15:45:15 GMT -5
wasnt going to be a franchise QB someone said Not what I said. You crowned him as the greatest ever after his first game...I didn't. He looks fantastic, by the way. He's got the makings. He could very well turn out to be one.
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Post by DJones19 on Sept 28, 2020 15:46:31 GMT -5
Not what I said. You crowned him as the greatest ever after his first game...I didn't. He looks fantastic, by the way. He's got the makings. He could very well turn out to be one. Young Elway
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Post by Zimonami on Sept 28, 2020 15:47:11 GMT -5
Ahhh... a man with patience? it is definitely needed right now. You mentioned some of the reasons. I think that, since DG has had to turn over 52 of the 53 starters we had in 2017, and made a mistake on his first selection for HC,we have to have another year of patience on him. Most believe he finally got it right with JJ. He made most of his FA mistakes his first year. But, most of his draft picks have been good. Entirely new coaching staff... entirely new O and D schemes. The Covid. I think you have to give him to the end of 2021. Many forget that the Carolina team that went to the SB in 2016 was sculpted by DG.. George Young, 1979, didn't develop a solid Giant Championship contender team until1985... 7 years. That goes for Simms, who came in '79 and didn't participate on a contender for the SB until '85 Ernie Accorsi was Assistant GM '94-'97, and GM '98-2006. He brought us a SB appearance his 3rd yr as GM, and not again until 7 years later, in Eli's 3rd season. Bill Parcells was 3-12-1 his first year. BB had only 1 winning season, his 4th at 9-7, in 5 with Cleveland, and was 5-11 his first year with the Pats. The point is that it takes time to build a winning team that can contend for the top. Give DG another year, and JJ, to me, should be given 4-5 years. Jones needs 3 years, too. The pieces are building. it takes time. DG hits the 3rd year mark later this year in December or maybe the first few days of January not sure he hasn't been perfect if he makes it to the 2021 draft it will be his 3rd full year on the job. he had 5 months from when he was hired to his first draft in 2018. he hasn't been here very long it just runs together they have been losing for so long. I think I have an advantage of having lived thru the 20 years of losing after 1963. We didn't even have a GM until 1979, when Rozelle literally forced Mara to take Young. But, once Young came in you could see a foundation building, and the very last part of that foundation was several years (7) of plugging new pieces into generating an effective OLine.... 1985, and Bavaro came that same year to finish that championship OL. I see the same pieces developing now, and don't want to succumb to the instant gratification thinking that will dump DG, or DJ before the current plan can evolve.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 15:48:27 GMT -5
I respect the body of work Eli did and I do think they org effed him over royally in some of his prime years, but to be fair we did hold on a little to long. IMO the organization effed him royally, how? Eli is a retired football player who is worth about 250 million dollars, I wish someone would screw me over like that.. Easy. Just become a two time championship HOF QB. You better hurry.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 15:52:08 GMT -5
He's got the makings. He could very well turn out to be one. Young Elway Could be, true he's getting bit over rated like that but that should balance out over time.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 28, 2020 15:53:16 GMT -5
the organization effed him royally, how? Eli is a retired football player who is worth about 250 million dollars, I wish someone would screw me over like that.. Easy. Just become a two time championship HOF QB. You better hurry. You put him in the HOF already?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 16:14:13 GMT -5
Eli has a little bit of the blame. He was Royalty and was kept on the Roster longer then he should have been. The GM’s tried to say we weren’t in rebuilding mode when we definitely should have been. We tried to create a win now team selecting a Running Back #2. No rebuilding team does that without beefing up the trenches first. Kinda hard to blame the player for management's mistakes, imagine if the FO actually started rebuilding the trenches particularly on the offensive side wbwen it started falling apart in 2011. That may be too logical for this organization
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 16:14:41 GMT -5
We have a new QB to blame now. And right now, he can’t hold onto the football to save his life. Also, we have some down right liars or memory loss here. A lot of us, including myself blamed Eli. You want to know why? Because it was easy. He was the face of the franchise, he had some games where you wanted to throw a television at him. Like when he threw left handed to Chris Snee. He played guard if some of you forgot. But, now that Eli is retired he’s revered and held very highly by the fan base.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 28, 2020 17:32:16 GMT -5
DG hits the 3rd year mark later this year in December or maybe the first few days of January not sure he hasn't been perfect if he makes it to the 2021 draft it will be his 3rd full year on the job. he had 5 months from when he was hired to his first draft in 2018. he hasn't been here very long it just runs together they have been losing for so long. I think I have an advantage of having lived thru the 20 years of losing after 1963. We didn't even have a GM until 1979, when Rozelle literally forced Mara to take Young. But, once Young came in you could see a foundation building, and the very last part of that foundation was several years (7) of plugging new pieces into generating an effective OLine.... 1985, and Bavaro came that same year to finish that championship OL. I see the same pieces developing now, and don't want to succumb to the instant gratification thinking that will dump DG, or DJ before the current plan can evolve. Well Zim...allow me to retort.
There was no free agency and there was no salary cap. teams could hold onto players forever, even if they had no contract. The only real way to rebuild a team back then was the draft. Back then..there were "5 year plans". Not the case anymore. The NFL has designed a system where parody is king. Each team MUST spend a certain amount on salary. Teams can't afford to keep all their players so there are usually a lot of really good players available as free agents.
In other words, rebuilds are no longer 5 year, or as you suggested, 7 year plans. teams can turn around in a year, two, or on the outside three years.
When they don't, it's because of poor decision making by front offices, or poor coaching or both. There simply is no excuse for us to be this bad in year three of Dave's tenure.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 28, 2020 18:28:34 GMT -5
We have a new QB to blame now. And right now, he can’t hold onto the football to save his life. Also, we have some down right liars or memory loss here. A lot of us, including myself blamed Eli. You want to know why? Because it was easy. He was the face of the franchise, he had some games where you wanted to throw a television at him. Like when he threw left handed to Chris Snee. He played guard if some of you forgot. But, now that Eli is retired he’s revered and held very highly by the fan base. the difference is DJ is young , and Eli was aging and on the downside of his career , he also had a running game and a better team around him , but still dumped it off 90 times . granted he needed a RT . it wasnt so much blame everything on Eli but blame the fans and FO for not wanting to let go of the past.
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